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yajvan
08 September 2010, 12:22 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

I have a recommendation for HDF. On occasion there are words that are traded with one member to another i.e. darts from the lips.
Somethings it cannot be helped that some friction arises and we end-up with jalpa ( arguments for the sake of victory over another). taking issue with a person's style or behavior vs. what one has written as an idea , response or concept.

Here is what I propose as an idea. Create a 'jalpa' folder in the Canteen area. Then one can take their issue there and the parties in question ( 2 or more) can then debate, exchange words as they see fit.
Why do this? Why take it to a separate place? When this jalpa occurs within a string it blemishes the concept and the stream of conscious that is taking place within that particular forum.

The parties can take their issues there. If this does not occur under one's own motivation, then the HDF Administrator can 'pickup and transfer' the jalpa to this folder and leave a note that the posts have been moved accordingly.

I look to others for their feedback on this, and to our Administrator, satya for his assessment.

praṇām

Onkara
08 September 2010, 12:44 PM
namasté
I like the idea! Argument can be constructive in the right environment :)

Eastern Mind
08 September 2010, 01:14 PM
Vannakkam Yajvan: I agree in principle. Even if the two (if there are only two) agree to go to PMing each other would be fine. But I am unsure of the practicality of asking Satay to do more than he already does ... which is provide us with this forum, and moderate it well. Also, sometimes the whole idea of 'friction' is up for debate, as I think both you and I at least have experienced. Language that contains idioms for example may easily be misinterpreted by another, when there really was no harm or arrow intended. Often a general comment is taken personally.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
08 September 2010, 01:35 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté EM,


Vannakkam Yajvan: I agree in principle. Even if the two (if there are only two) agree to go to PMing each other would be fine. But I am unsure of the practicality of asking Satay to do more than he already does ... which is provide us with this forum, and moderate it well. Also, sometimes the whole idea of 'friction' is up for debate, as I think both you and I at least have experienced. Language that contains idioms for example may easily be misinterpreted by another, when there really was no harm or arrow intended. Often a general comment is taken personally. Aum Namasivaya

Yes, I see your point... Billy really didn't mean to insult Sally's intelligence or her inability to ___________ ( fill in the blank). This can be worked out. But IMHO work it out in PM's.
When that does not occur then I think intervention from our Admin may be in due order.

Now it must be up to our Admin to assess his bandwidth and determine if this is possible for him to accomplish. We should see what his comments are regarding this matter.

Being on HDF for some time I have seen issues swell ( turn sour) and tempers flare. What good comes from this I do not know. Many say from friction a fire is born, yet many with the sticks use them as clubs and the fire is never created for the benefit of others.


We have offered different ideas to mitigate this concern yet none bear fruit. I think this approach is simple and can provide for a healthier environment , yet my views are bias.

praṇām

satay
08 September 2010, 01:43 PM
Namaste,
Well, we can definitely create a new folder called jalpa and move posts/threads accordingly. That's not an issue.

The main issue is to 'detect' that jalpa is going on because it gets mingled with good posts. For example, if sally hits harry with some remarks, harry might post something that is very good but include some 'jalpaying' (my own word) remarks of his own. Now, in that case, do I move the whole post or thread to jalpa or just some posts there.

I rely on members to report such posts. Once I get a report either via PM or email, I take swift and quick action (as much as possible).

Second issue, I myself get caught in this 'jalpa' more often than I would like. If you see this happening, I would like the esteemed members to PM me or email me and advice so that I can see the forest for the trees and possibly stop before I make an a$$ out of myself and others.

That said, definitely, we can create a Jalpa folder and I can move posts there.

Thanks,

yajvan
08 September 2010, 03:05 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté satya,



Namaste,
Well, we can definitely create a new folder called jalpa and move posts/threads accordingly. That's not an issue.

The main issue is to 'detect' that jalpa is going on because it gets mingled with good posts. For example, if sally hits harry with some remarks, harry might post something that is very good but include some 'jalpaying' (my own word) remarks of his own. Now, in that case, do I move the whole post or thread to jalpa or just some posts there.

I rely on members to report such posts. Once I get a report either via PM or email, I take swift and quick action (as much as possible).

Second issue, I myself get caught in this 'jalpa' more often than I would like. If you see this happening, I would like the esteemed members to PM me or email me and advice so that I can see the forest for the trees and possibly stop before I make an a$$ out of myself and others.

That said, definitely, we can create a Jalpa folder and I can move posts there. Thanks,

Thank you for your feedback... Let me test my understanding ( so far):
1. Many , and there is just a few so far, think this idea has merit.
2. It is operationally possible - as you have offered your kind assistance to get this done.
3. Reporting this jalpa - this will be done to you in a PM or any other method you prefer.
It seems this jalpa should be self-evident in your eyes but if not I suggest you ask for the infraction that you may not see.
3a. If you become caught in this net, it will be the responsibility of some of the Sr. Members to call this to your attention and consume the same medicine that is offered to others i.e. your post in full or in part will be re-located to the jalpa folder.

4. Regarding the part of the post that may be co-mingled with jalpa. My recommendation is do what is needed. If you think to just remove the issue, i.e. condescending words, etc. and send it to the jalpa folder then that is the action to take. If you think a complete extraction is needed then pursue that. Why would a complete extraction (the whole post of the individual ) be needed? To insure the context is preserved on why Sally thinks Billy is an intellectual midget or for holding a view that is obtuse to Sally's POV said with words that are condesending.

Again , why do this? To preserve the quality of the post that is in-process and to not co-mingle personal agendas between two or
more members that choose to debate-deride or cajole negative communication unrelated to the HDF post that is being pursued.

praṇām

satay
08 September 2010, 07:10 PM
namaste,


Why would a complete extraction (the whole post of the individual ) be needed? To insure the context is preserved on why Sally thinks Billy is an intellectual midget or for holding a view that is obtuse to Sally's POV said with words that are condesending.

Again , why do this? To preserve the quality of the post that is in-process and to not co-mingle personal agendas between two or
more members that choose to debate-deride or cajole negative communication unrelated to the HDF post that is being pursued.

praṇām

Definitely. I will make the new subforum this weekend if not earlier. Let's try this approach and see...

And yes, I have no problem consuming the same medicine.

yajvan
08 September 2010, 08:03 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté satya,



namaste,
And yes, I have no problem consuming the same medicine.


We all will assume this will occur very rarely :)

http://www.prestonmed.on.ca/images/Content_images/pills.jpg

atanu
10 September 2010, 02:40 AM
Post of EM brought from another thread.


Vannakkam Sahsranam: I've been struggling with this lately. Sometimes differences of opinion are taken personally as severe criticism. The whole of Hinduism has its faults here and there, depending on points of view. I'd hate to see us all fall into the 'we're perfect' syndrome that some of the Abrahamics have. How can one improve if faults aren't seen by themselves or subtly pointed out by others. I also think there is a tactful way versus a hurtful way. I know I often hesitate to express my personal opinion for fear of being jumped on all over by people who disagree with said opinion. So I just hold it back. I'm sure some others are the same. Is it too much to ask to allow opinions and all the varying points of view to be expressed without thinking its a personal attack on another view?

An example is my view that Christ didn't exist. That's just my view. Others have theirs, and with me, that's fine as there is no proof either way. All of it is just opinion.

Aum Namasivaya

Namaste EM

I fully agree with you, noting at the same time that there may be some higher quality, which allows one to say one's view yet not attract unwanted controversy and criticism. In this I will point out brahman, yajvan, and saidevo. On the other hand, in some cases, the language used itself is of such quality that others shut up -- preferring the ignoring-passive path. Some, mainly one member, have held me responsible of this on few occassions.

A second problem may be mixing of mundane-political with the spiritual. I suggest that the mundane-political should be restricted to the political-hot topics or other suitable threads -- and then a political view should not be held as HDF view.

A third style of posting that irritates (me) is when a poster brings up a value opinion matter, which might have been shown to be meaningless scripturally, again and again subtly or mixes with other matters. However, since this irritates me, this is my problem.

The above are my opinions only.

Om Namah Shivaya

Ganeshprasad
10 September 2010, 08:32 AM
Pranam All


hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté satya,





We all will assume this will occur very rarely :)

http://www.prestonmed.on.ca/images/Content_images/pills.jpg

I am afraid i am averse to medicine, i cant swallow that bitter pill.

i much rather have views expressed then those who sit back and feel good about themselves. those neutral view many times are also very condescending. if someone is abusive there is already a remedy for it.
off course when one debates or argues the poison may result in the end only amrit will flow, well thats my opinion, perhaps this post would be the first candidate for the Jalpa folder.

Jai Shree Krishna

satay
10 September 2010, 09:26 AM
namaste atanu,

It's not that "others" 'shut up' by reading high quality posts of yajvan and sai and brahman. It's just that these members don't engage in higher than thou attitudes to prove their point as some other members do. If someone wants to listen to their point fine, if not, they move. They don't seem to insist in going in one direction like some sort of engergizer 'bunny'.

Even when some 'politically' motivated people want to engage them in jalpa these members simply ignore them or bow out especially yajvan and sai.

This quality is something which I admire because I am uncapable of acquaring it because of my rajsic and ramasic nature/gunas and past karma.



noting at the same time that there may be some higher quality, which allows one to say one's view yet not attract unwanted controversy and criticism. In this I will point out brahman, yajvan, and saidevo. On the other hand, in some cases, the language used itself is of such quality that others shut up -- preferring the ignoring-passive path. Some, mainly one member, have held me responsible of this on few occassions.
Om Namah Shivaya

satay
10 September 2010, 09:58 AM
namaste,

WOW! that looks like an overdose! Are you trying to kill me?

We shall call it 'anti-jalpaotic'. What are the side-effects? or is it made from ayurveda science and thus no side effects? :)


hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté satya,





We all will assume this will occur very rarely :)

http://www.prestonmed.on.ca/images/Content_images/pills.jpg

atanu
10 September 2010, 10:27 AM
namaste atanu,

It's not that "others" 'shut up' by reading high quality posts of yajvan and sai and brahman. It's just that these members don't engage in higher than thou attitudes to prove their point as some other members do. .

namaste satay

I already said that Satay. Thank you for grinding it in. I also do it this way and that is a folly for me (but not for you). Difference between raja and praja i suppose?

;)

satay
10 September 2010, 11:06 AM
namaste atanu,

You are welcome.


Difference between raja and praja i suppose?

;)

hmm...I don't know what you mean. Is there such a thing as 'difference' in SELF?

yajvan
10 September 2010, 12:11 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté satya,


What are the side-effects? :)

Happiness.


praṇām

yajvan
10 September 2010, 12:40 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

I have read some of the feedback and the salient points offered above. I respect what is offered and can appreciate the POV given.
Yet I ask the discernible reader to not wander too too far from the original intent that was suggested And what is that?

When a poster turns from being civil-minded and becomes a brute. This is beneath the dignity of knowledge that is being offered.
I have seen this (and not on rare occasions) occur. I did not see any good come from this - and in fact I have seen people leave HDF for these reasons.

So, one says, if it is too hot in the kitchen, one should leave! I think other wise. I think there is plenty of room in the kitchen, enough for all to eat without
throwing knives and forks at one another in a condescending way.

But that said, with a jalpa folder , if two or more people wish to continue the vāda of jalpa or of vitaṇdā (destructive criticism)
you are welcome to do this here on HDF, but please take the conversation to the jalpa room. What could be more fair ?
HDF is being accommodating and offering the space for the wrangling to continue. We are just asking not to blemish the existing
string conversation that is taking place.

praṇām

Eastern Mind
10 September 2010, 02:00 PM
namaste,

WOW! that looks like an overdose! Are you trying to kill me?

We shall call it 'anti-jalpaotic'. What are the side-effects? or is it made from ayurveda science and thus no side effects? :)

Vannakkam: But is the gelatin the vegetarian type? Is the green color from spinach. Anyone know what drug this is?

Aum

satay
10 September 2010, 02:28 PM
It's called anti-jalapaotic. Take it as necessary. Side effects: Happiness.
:)


Vannakkam: But is the gelatin the vegetarian type? Is the green color from spinach. Anyone know what drug this is?

Aum

Ganeshprasad
10 September 2010, 04:07 PM
Pranam


It's called anti-jalapaotic. Take it as necessary. Side effects: Happiness.
:)

Now is it available over the counter or should the physician have to prescribe it.
what guarantee do you give that the happiness will result? baring in mind that the lord says this world is full of dukh.

Jai Shree Krishna

yajvan
10 September 2010, 05:17 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



Pranam
what guarantee do you give that the happiness will result? baring in mind that the lord says this world is full of dukh.
Jai Shree Krishna

100% satisfaction or your money back.

Ganeshprasad
11 September 2010, 05:04 PM
Pranam


hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté




100% satisfaction or your money back.

http://419.bittenus.com/nenitavillaran4/happy-pills.jpg

Now that is a tall claim, i hope it does not come back to haunt you.
enough of this Jalpa, time to concentrate on Japa.

now can i have my money back.

Jai Shree Krishna

Rasa1976
11 September 2010, 08:05 PM
According to the Garuda Purana, Vayu was born as Maniman daitya, known as Sankara. Madhva is believed to be the third incarnation of Vayu.

Of course, you can take the Padma Purana version about Sankara, but who around here believes the Padma Purana?

If these are both true and Sankara and Madhva are the same person then jalpa ( arguments for the sake of victory over another), would find its greatest enjoyment in personality of Vayu, who has spawned all the dvait vs. advait arguments in the history of time.

Vayu then, should be the predominating deity of the forum. Perhaps in his honor we could sub-title it "hot air".

atanu
12 September 2010, 12:27 AM
According to the Garuda Purana, Vayu was born as Maniman daitya, known as Sankara. Madhva is believed to be the third incarnation of Vayu.

If these are both true and Sankara and Madhva are the same person then jalpa ( arguments for the sake of victory over another), would find its greatest enjoyment in personality of Vayu, who has spawned all the dvait vs. advait arguments in the history of time.


Namaste Rasa

You have brought in wisdom. That Shankara is Madhava is my understanding that i had once disclosed to Shri Saidevo. To be perfect in the knowledge of dvaita is advaita, IMO. It is a difficult calling when the essence is held as diverse. When the essence is known, one cannot be but the essence.

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

yajvan
12 September 2010, 05:29 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté ganeshprasad,



now can i have my money back.


We will be happy to refund you what ever you have paid in to date. Here is the initial down payment...

http://www.washingtonwatch.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/stack-of-money.jpg

satay
13 September 2010, 10:06 AM
namaste,
The jalpa subforum under canteen has not been created yet. Possibly later tonight.
Sorry about that.