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rishman1
08 September 2010, 04:23 PM
Hi all,

I just joined this forum, mainly to ask a specific question about karma. People have probably asked this before, so I apologize if this has been discussed already, but I did not find this discussion when I searched through the forum.

From my understanding of karma, to put it simply, if we do bad, we will have bad things happen to us; if we do good, good things will happen to us. My question is this: every time that something bad happens to us, is it because of something bad that we did at some time in our lives (i.e. do we always deserve anything bad which happens to us)?

I have been going through a really hard time during the last month and have really been depressed. In the grand scheme of things, much worse things could happen, I know. At least everyone I love is still alive. But I have gone through the hardest break-up of my life, where this girl left me who was my everything-- I really thought and hoped that I would marry her one day, she told me the same, and then all of a sudden her feelings changed. We did have a minor argument or two but from all the people I've talked to about this, and I really did give them both sides of the story, everyone says that I did nothing wrong and that she was just too young/immature to really commit to me like I had to her.

Now, the above explanation I can agree with-- she is young and at a different stage of life than me. However, what keeps bothering me is, why did this happen to me? I was really so very happy with her, she was everything I thought I ever wanted (now I can point out things which weren't good, but the point is that I was happy at the time when I was with her), and please believe me when I say that I did everything for her. I loved her more than anything else in the world (other than my parents) and I took really, really, good care of her. Obviously none of you know me so you can't confirm this, but you have to believe me and also, all of my friends and family (and even a friend of hers) agree with this. In fact, the friend of hers even told me that she will never find anyone else as caring as me.

So, going back to my question. Why did this happen? I was really, really good to her. I really, really loved her. So why did I have to get hurt so badly? When this first happened I really wished I was dead because then I wouldn't have had to deal with the immense pain I was going through (don't worry, I was not suicidal though). And then I was really depressed for 4-5 weeks and am only now starting to slowly get out of it. I can now look back and see certain things which did make us incompatible, most importantly the fact that she is atheist and thinks that love is just a "biochemical reaction," whereas I am quite spiritual and for me, love is a divine thing. I think this is also why she can so easily "turn off" her love for people. However, why did I have to go through such a terrible bout of depression (I also lost 9 pounds in 2 weeks)?

From my understanding of karma, I instantly thought that since this terrible thing happened to me, I must have done something to deserve it. I kept trying to find things (and still sometimes do) that would put the blame on me for all this... but deep down I know that this breakup was not my fault. My friends who know the whole story also completely feel that way.

Anyway so yes, when something like this happens, it just makes me wonder why, and also makes me wonder if I have the concept of karma right. Did this happen to me because I deserved it? Do all bad things that happen to a person happen because they did something bad to deserve it? Or, does the law of karma allow for bad things to happen to good people through no fault of their own?

Again, in summation, basically what I am asking is, are all the bad things that happen to us due to something bad that we did (thus meaning that we deserved those bad things to happen to us), or are some of the bad things that happen to us just random and not through our own fault?

Thanks for reading all this, and thanks in advance for any help.

yajvan
08 September 2010, 07:43 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté rishman1


Kṛṣṇa said¹ 'unfathomable is the course of action'. We at times are bewildered at the events of life; What was the audit trail back to this action? We hear often 'Why did it happen to me ?'

What you ask is no simple matter as actions have 3 areas of influence/origin.


On an individual level, our karma that we have accumulated,
On a social level, other people, places and things in the surrounding environment;
And on a Universal level - those things that are cosmic in nature where we are just by-standers to the influencesSome may call them out this way:

ādhidaivika - Divine forces on a grand universal scale
ādhibhautika - Forces and interactions from within society and environment that affect us
ādhyātmika - inner forces and 'triggers' as karma, etc. within the humanOthers may wish to offer you more , as this subject is substantial in depth and breath.


praṇām

references:
Kṛṣṇa - Bhāgavad gītā - Chapter 4, 17th śloka - gahanā karmaṇaḥ gathiḥ -

NayaSurya
08 September 2010, 07:44 PM
I am very sorry you are going through this.

It is very difficult at times to understand where certain karma originates...it could be that it is not even in this field of vision before you...meaning from a previous incarnation.

A person whom I thought loved me...I was married to them and they began numerous affairs right in front of me. For almost thirteen years I suffered this...believing in keeping the marriage vows. But then physical abuse began.

One night as I sat writing out the emergency protective order with a policeman who had been in our home taking pictures of evidence. (He tried to kill us)...I suddenly realized that I must have been dreadful in my past life to ones I loved. This realization brought changes in my attitude...I made sure the Divine knew I had learned this tremendous lesson of humility they had given me.

Thankfully in this life...the karma burned itself out and I was liberated.

Be thankful, despite this pain you are experiencing...that you will not waste a lifetime trying to keep this one who is so inconsiderate.

You deserve one who loves you wholly...one who would never forsake you. Believe this person exists...they do.

I am married now, to my most beloved...and he and I love each other in this way. I would give my life before I hurt him...and he would do the same for me.

Sometimes Karma burns so hotly...it's almost unbearible...but it will cool...

It just takes some time.

*Big hugs* to you tonight.

Don't let her knock you from your course....strive on.<3

Eastern Mind
08 September 2010, 09:49 PM
Vannakkam:

Welcome to the forums, Rishman. In my opinion, you have it prety well, although it may be more complicated. It isn't always an eye for an eye knd of thing. It may involve 3 people or even many people. The action is returned in some way, but it is the impact that is the same, not the action itself. So you have been hurt, which means you did some hurt, but it may have been in some other manner. The fact that you treated this person well would probably mean that the impact was reduced. By living a dharmic life, praying, doing service to God, doing penance, we can reduce the impact. For example, we may experience karmic consequences vicariously. For example, we watch a movie and really feel the pain of a character. This same pain may have been intended for us as karma, but since we have eased it, it comes only temporarily via a strong reaction to a movie.

Best wishes carrying on.

Aum Namasivaya

Surya Deva
09 September 2010, 03:04 AM
Namaste,

I would encourage you to get out of the habit of labelling karma as good and bad. Karma is simply cause and effect. Some effects we call "good" and some we call "bad" Something is only good or bad from a conditional point of view. You may see it as your bad karma that your ex-girlfriend left you, but perhaps from another point of view, it was good karma that your girlfriend left you, because she was not the right person for you. Perhaps, in the future you will find somebody who is right for you and who shares your spirituality. Yet, this would not have happened, if you were still with your ex-girlfriend.

Just remember that karma is not in your control. All you can do is act and the results of your actions are not in your hands. Now, this is especially true in relationships. We cannot control the thoughts and actions of another person, and nor should we try to, because that infringes on their basic god-given right to free will. Your ex-girlfriend, for whatever reason, felt that she needed something else in her life. Respect that, and let her go. She has her journey and you have yours.

It is a worry when our source of happiness in our life becomes something or somebody outside of us. This is a conditional happiness and as soon as the condition changes, it threatens our happiness. Rather, cultivate that happiness from within, so that your own being becomes your source of happiness. Then, wherever you go or no matter whatever happens in the world without, it will not affect your happiness.

kallol
09 September 2010, 07:06 AM
Dear Rishman1,

I really sympathise with you. You are not alone in this kind of situation. There are many and many others who might be in worse condition than you are. And life is too big and time is a great friend.

The karma theory is simple. What you are today is because of the decisions and actions taken by you in past. What you do now will be the cause of the effect in future.

I had choices to become doctor or engineer, I chose the second. I had choice of becoming sanyasi or sansari, I chose sansari. I had a choice of a few girls. I chose 1 amongst them. So everywhere the choice is mine and I set the destiny. I choose the words to speak, action to do, matter to think, etc. It is the same I who is responsible for all these.

But again with this capability, I try to do my best after acquiring the right knowledge. But even then I need the grace of God to have the right results as much of my historical data, which might influence the effect is not knowm to me or I have forgotten.

So the best way is to increase the knowledge to choose the right words, thoughts, actions at right time and right target. That is the best we can do.

Love and best wishes

Eric11235
09 September 2010, 08:24 AM
Vannakam Rishman1,

I also have had some rough going over the last few weeks, sometimes it gets to be too much at certain points, but, after thinking about it, I realize that there must not be good without bad. I believe that everything affects everything, right down to the music I listen to. For example, I am a big fan of heavy metal, bands such as megadeth, Judas priest and dethklok, I find however, that I whenever i listen to these bands as well as others, I have a very rough time. Things go down south especially hard when listening to Dethklok. You must also keep in mind, that karma is not so simple as the causation one supposes it to be, there is also the concept of past life that we must contend with, Sometimes things we did in a past life could come back to bite us, which is why sometimes bad things happening appear to be random. But I digress.

I am very sorry that your girlfriend broke up with you, but you must not think of the breaking up, but all the good times you had together (that is terribly cliche, but it helps even if only a little)

So to summarize, accruing karma is not only what you have done in this life, but what you have also done in past lives, the buildup is what causes bad things (or good things in case you were a virtuous soul) to happen.

hope that helps a little

Namaste

sar78
09 September 2010, 09:13 AM
My question is this: every time that something bad happens to us, is it because of something bad that we did at some time in our lives (i.e. do we always deserve anything bad which happens to us)?

not necessarily I suppose - it can be either because of the papa (bad karma) done to you by others in this lifetime or it can be due to the papa karmas you did in your earlier life time.... now I think the difference can be easily spotted by means of your your resulting emotions in your suffering period... is it self regretting or is it towards anger or frustration upon some in particular...? I am not postulating a theory here... But since I beleive that your thoughts and emotions make up your future and forms as fate..., (like the sages give the curse to human beings (if they did bad karmas) and that would become their immediate fate...) I think that its based upon your own... If regretting feelings upon the situation happening to you then I think (but not very sure) its your bad karma in past life time and if you are showing anger frustration or with a cursing emotion due to your bad situation, then some one did bad karma to you and your emotions will result in their fate of future... I dont know how many know Tamil here... but they used to say in Tamil...

'dont kindle my stomach emotion!! (vayiththerichchal) by doing this... you wont be having good time in future... you will become destroyed (nasham)' like that I use this as an example for a cursing emotion becoming fate...

Now I think it would have become clear to you now by differentiating that whether you have got any cursing emotion upon any or not.... would determine the answer to your question.. i suppose this but not very sure...

Ashvati
09 September 2010, 10:55 AM
I find that one of the great things about karma is that it allows one to think of there rough times as having a cause linked to their own actions, unlike christianity for example where it might be "a test of God" or some other explanation that can essentially mean directly blaming God and, at least in the case of those who ego has more sway over, becoming disilllusioned with Him. I've been through similar ordeals to yours (although I could argue that it might have been worse in some ways in my case) and never once did I feel angry with Shiva for it. I did, however, want to know why it was happening to me. I knew it involved karma, but I wanted to know what I had done to accumulate such karma and whether it was during this lifetime (which I kinda doubt) or a previous one. When all is said and done though, think of it this way: At least now you've burned off that karma and gotten it over and done with.

Ganeshprasad
09 September 2010, 10:55 AM
Pranam

Some great advise has been given as Yajvan ji said 'Gahana Karmano Gati' Lord Krishna says, workings of Karma are very difficult to ascertain because there are many permutations at play, but one thing is for sure no one but ourselves are responsible for our pain and pleasure.
Here is a link provided by Saidevo in another discussion similar to this, I thought may be relevant. It discusses fate ie previous Karma and free will by which we act to build current Karma

http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/artic...e_and_Free.htm (http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/articles/The_Riddle_of_Fate_and_Free.htm)

I am also of the opinion that nothing happens without a reason and it is always for the best, this may sound horrible when we are suffering but something good always comes out of it. I sympathise with your position but remember love is blind and very fickle, I am sure you will get over it in due course off time. having said that I am still grieving the loss of my mum, what good or how is it best I am still to find out, its been years but it will come.

Incidence however sad or pleasant are part our life, we must always take the positive out of it , in this regard one story comes to mind I shell narrate it as sort as poss.

Minister of a king had a habit of saying every thing happens for the best, one day the king cut his finger and true to his habit minister said it happened for the best. King in his rage locked his best friend up in the prison.
One day the king went hunting alone in the forest and in the thick of it he got lost and got caught by the junglees, they were looking to sacrifice a human. Ready to beheaded, the priest noticed the missing finger and immediately released the king.
The king upon getting back to his kingdom released his minister and repented the fact that he jailed his best friend and asked his forgiveness. The king asked his friend sure, my loosing the finger, saved me from sacrifice but tell me my friend what was your fault? you had to suffer for nothing how can that be described as happened for the best?
Minister replied my dear king had you not jailed me I certainly would have accompanied you for the hunt, you never went hunting without me, in that case I certainly would have been sacrificed.

Jai Shree Krishna

NetiNeti
10 September 2010, 01:13 AM
Karma can be a rough ride. Hang on tight and remain devoted to your Ishta-Deva.