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Surya Deva
09 September 2010, 05:06 AM
Namaste,

It seems to me the more research I do into Indian history that the dates are very very wrong for most major personalities and events, and I think we Hindus need to take a stand and get our history revised to reflect an accurate picture of the history of Bharat. First of all, we need to begin by insisting that Aryan invasion is dead, because this is a major historical anchor point in dating Indian history. They(Western scholars) begin our recorded history in 1500BCE with the arrival of the Aryans in India. Then from that period they date everything else. Now, as it is now overwhelmingly suggested by the scientific evidence that the Aryans were in India as far as 7000BCE, this means that Indian history has been shrank by an obscene amount of 5500 years. Therefore, we must revise the dates of most important periods and personalities in India's ancient history.

Now based on the research I have done the following revisions seem to be in order. The dating of Chandragupta Mauraya empire, currently placed by Western scholars in 322-185BCE, should be 1534BCE. The research I have looked at suggests the Western scholars misidentified Chandragupta II for Chandragupta Mauraya(there is a 1200 year gap between them in the Puranas). This means the Gupta empire(currently dated 320-550AD) is 300BCE to 185BCE. This would place the Mauraya empire in the late Indus valley phase. Incidentally, if we look at Kautaliyas Arthshastra, the urban descriptions and the metrical system described matches the mature Indus valley period(even the ratio of the mud-bricks is identical)

http://varnam.org/blog/2009/05/chandragupta-maurya-or-chandragupta/

This would incidentally put Buddha in 1800BCE.

Many major personalities in the history of India such as Charaka, Sushruta, Patanjali, Panini, Kananda, Jamini, Kapila, Vyasa must all belong in a period between 7000BCE and 1800BCE.

I have now seen some evidence that suggests that Aryabhatta lived in 2720BCE based on Aryabhatta saying in his treatise that he was 23 years old 360 years after the Mahabharata war. The Mahabharata war is dated traditionally at 3102BCE. The Western scholars based on a misprinted manuscript of the treatise, mistook 360 years for 3600 years, thus placing his date in 500AD.

I think even the 3102BCE date for the Mahabharata is questionable.

Let's make an attempt to work out the correct dates for major personalities and events in ancient Indian history. It is time that the history text books are corrected.

TatTvamAsi
15 October 2010, 03:56 AM
Completely agree with you on how distorted Indian history is.

The only question is, isn't 3102BCE the date for Krishna returning to Vaikunta? The war was supposed to be about 35-37 years prior to his departure so I thought it was around 3137-3139BCE?

Anyway, lot of research needs to be done and more archeological digging needs to be conducted. However, many of the important sites are probably in Afghanistan & pakistan now.

BryonMorrigan
15 October 2010, 08:07 AM
Yes, I'll let David Frawley point out the biggest problem:

"The Indus valley culture was pronounced pre-Aryans for several reasons that were largely part of the cultural milieu of nineteenth century European thinking As scholars following Max Mullar had decided that the Aryans came into India around 1500 BC, since the Indus valley culture was earlier than this, they concluded that it had to be preAryan. Yet the rationale behind the late date for the Vedic culture given by Muller was totally speculative. Max Muller, like many of the Christian scholars of his era, believed in Biblical chronology. This placed the beginning of the world at 4000 BC and the flood around 2500 BC. Assuming to those two dates, it became difficult to get the Aryans in India before 1500 BC." (Emphasis mine...) (1)

In other words, the reasoning behind the incorrect dating of Indian historical civilization is based solely and completely on the preposterous claims of the Christian Bible. Only Christian Fundamentalists and complete wackos continue to accept the "Young Earth Theory" that the world is less than 6000 years old. (For example, this is the same "theory" that proclaims that humans and dinosaurs coexisted...LOL...)

Unfortunately, the West pretty much lost interest in studying Indian history after the British left...so there has not been as much real scholarship going on. (At least from the West. I profess ignorance of what kind of internal scholarship may be occurring in India.)

In fact, something that I plan on doing once I get those magical three letters appended to my name (Ph.D.) is to write a textbook entitled "The History of Hinduism." To my knowledge, there are no books out there that really discuss the history of Hinduism--from the Vedas to modern day India--from a positive standpoint, and without Christian nonsense or propaganda. As a history of Hinduism, however, I also want to include the history of places like Angkor Wat and other areas outside of India where Vedic religion once flourished.

And for the record, I plan on writing this book in India, and having getting the opinions of native Indian scholars on everything, in order to ensure that I don't let any unintentional Western misconceptions screw things up. My goal is not only to make a great textbook for Western people to learn about Hinduism and India...but also to make a textbook that people in India would be proud to use.

_______________________________________________________________

(1) Frawley, D. (n.d.). The Myth of Aryan Invasion of India. Retrieved 15 October 2010, from http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/ancient/aryan/aryan_frawley.html

saidevo
15 October 2010, 08:16 AM
namaste Bryon.

Please check the following links:
http://thetruehistoryandthereligionofindia.org/
http://www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/53_chronological_chart.htm
http://www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/53.3.htm

BryonMorrigan
15 October 2010, 08:51 AM
namaste Bryon.

Please check the following links:
http://thetruehistoryandthereligionofindia.org/
http://www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/53_chronological_chart.htm
http://www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/53.3.htm


Cool. I'm gonna have to order that.

I'll have to check it out though...but it does seem to have a rather religiously-focused theme. I want MY book to be something that might be used as a textbook in a secular classroom on the history of India or Hinduism. In America, at least, I find it unlikely that a professor would use a book like this which seems--to me at least, from looking at the synopsis--to be treating the subject from a decidedly religious perspective. (i.e., referring to "God" and the "divinity" of the Vedas and what-not...) Like I said, my goal is to create a textbook for university use by Hindus and non-Hindus alike. A different goal, it seems than the author of this book. Not that there's anything wrong with that, by the way.

Sahasranama
15 October 2010, 09:41 AM
Thanks for posting those links. I think I can rest in peace (;)) now after going through the pages on that website. Finally, someone who presents the historical aspect of Hinduism in a true light.

amra
15 October 2010, 11:21 AM
I find that the one-dimensional idea of history is absolutely stupid. History in its truest sense is vertical as well as horizontal. The linear, horizontal view of history, as the most true, backed up by objective physical facts, is a fairylike dream constructed by modern european civilization. This view does envelop subjective experience of nature. As an individual cannot experience past events herself she has no conception of what actually has occured in past times. Physical evidence is only partial and cannot reveal the full truth. There is a discrepancy between actual events that occured in the past which are the causes of events occuring today and the present conception of the past which is a result of prior causes. These prior causes are mainly effects of ideas conceived in victorian europe - the birth of modern science and rationalism - these causes, cause people to envisage the past according to these ideas which are considered to be the 'truth'. To re-iterate we can conceive of the past only through the present but the present climate of ideas is prepared by real events in the past, which real events may not be in accordance to how the past is perceived.

A useful history for people now would only be a history of ideas and how these shape modern thinking. Any linear history would only be shaped by these climate of ideas and therefore not really be a good force for chcange.

BryonMorrigan
15 October 2010, 01:39 PM
I find that the one-dimensional idea of history is absolutely stupid. History in its truest sense is vertical as well as horizontal. The linear, horizontal view of history, as the most true, backed up by objective physical facts, is a fairylike dream constructed by modern european civilization. This view does envelop subjective experience of nature. As an individual cannot experience past events herself she has no conception of what actually has occured in past times. Physical evidence is only partial and cannot reveal the full truth. There is a discrepancy between actual events that occured in the past which are the causes of events occuring today and the present conception of the past which is a result of prior causes. These prior causes are mainly effects of ideas conceived in victorian europe - the birth of modern science and rationalism - these causes, cause people to envisage the past according to these ideas which are considered to be the 'truth'. To re-iterate we can conceive of the past only through the present but the present climate of ideas is prepared by real events in the past, which real events may not be in accordance to how the past is perceived.

A useful history for people now would only be a history of ideas and how these shape modern thinking. Any linear history would only be shaped by these climate of ideas and therefore not really be a good force for chcange.

There are many different "schools" of history, and not all of them are simply linear. (Annales, Marxist, etc.)

Sahasranama
19 October 2010, 07:25 AM
The Need to Rewrite the History of India:

http://www.vedanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51%3Athe-need-to-rewrite-the-history-of-india&catid=20%3Aancient-india-and-historical-issues&Itemid=2

Shanti
06 December 2010, 09:21 PM
And for the record, I plan on writing this book in India, and having getting the opinions of native Indian scholars on everything, in order to ensure that I don't let any unintentional Western misconceptions screw things up. My goal is not only to make a great textbook for Western people to learn about Hinduism and India...but also to make a textbook that people in India would be proud to use.

_______________________________________________________________

(1) Frawley, D. (n.d.). The Myth of Aryan Invasion of India. Retrieved 15 October 2010, from http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/ancient/aryan/aryan_frawley.html


Please put me on the pre-order list! I have searched high and low for accurate texts on the history of Bharat.

I do have the above linked text and it is a wonderful resource, but I would love something a bit more 'textbooky', I guess. I'd like to be able to flip through the chapters that are a bit more outline friendly.

PARAM
07 December 2010, 11:06 AM


History of Hindus is always Mispresented by anti-Hindus

In Pakistan the protector and defender of Dharma Raja Dahir is always showed as a subject depressor and the real depressor Muhammad Bin Qasim is shown as protector of Sindh.

Muslims blames even Prithviraj Chauhan, Shivaji etc too, however their rule land is in India and with re writing Indian History many writers have proved the greatness of those rulers

S. M. Sullivan
25 November 2011, 01:40 AM
There are two new books about India's history now available on Amazon.com that may appeal to people who want new information based on new evidence. The first book is Nilesh Oak's 'When Did The Mahabharata War Happen?' in which Oak verifies P. V. Vartak's date of 5565 BC for the Mahabharata War, using astronomer's software to calculate correct dates for various incidents described in the Mahabharata. This date given by Oak and Vartak is, of course, much older than most other commonly accepted dates given by researchers.
The second book is my own 'Indus Script Dictionary,' which contains hundreds of photos of Indus seals and inscriptions, along with a new and controversial interpretation of the underlying language, based on comparison of Indus script with Brahmi scripts and Linear Elamite script. (I might as well confess here that most of the seals have Sanskrit or Prakrit names on them.)
Both books are inexpensive paperbacks which have been well received.

PARAM
27 November 2011, 11:46 AM
There are two new books about India's history now available on Amazon.com that may appeal to people who want new information based on new evidence. The first book is Nilesh Oak's 'When Did The Mahabharata War Happen?' in which Oak verifies P. V. Vartak's date of 5565 BC for the Mahabharata War, using astronomer's software to calculate correct dates for various incidents described in the Mahabharata. This date given by Oak and Vartak is, of course, much older than most other commonly accepted dates given by researchers.
The second book is my own 'Indus Script Dictionary,' which contains hundreds of photos of Indus seals and inscriptions, along with a new and controversial interpretation of the underlying language, based on comparison of Indus script with Brahmi scripts and Linear Elamite script. (I might as well confess here that most of the seals have Sanskrit or Prakrit names on them.)
Both books are inexpensive paperbacks which have been well received.

It is good that you have written the book with your researches instead of going on with the work of anti-Hindu writers. There are many authors with right mindedness. History is manipulated and representative in wrong because it did not accept the foolish dates of mahAadharm Islam and Christianity.

anisha_astrologer
28 November 2011, 01:08 AM
indeed the history of Bharatvarsha is often distorted by anti-hindus. i feel that everyone should forget religious rivalry and come together to discover the ancient history of the world which will eventuall help in advancement of whole humanity.:)

Eastern Mind
28 November 2011, 09:37 AM
Vannakkam: IMHO, all history is distorted, if not severely. The history of Bharat is not an exception to the rule, just more apparent because here on this forum we have citizens of Bharat. When a false accusation or portrayal is close to home, we feel it more.

The natives, of North America, practically all wars, why civilisations disappeared, controversial figures, and more is written up as some sort of fact, when its just loaded with interpretation and bias. Not only that, but there is intentional burning of books and records.

You won't find too much about the deliberate placing of smallpox on blankets given to the natives of North America in the British or Catholic Church histories. But the First nations peoples remember it very well.

I still remember a Vietnam veteran's account of his years in Vietnam. (My apologies if I've told this story before ... honestly can't remember) He told me how he and his group would go out each day, over one hill, fire off a few rounds at the next tree, and then call in, all lies about what had happened. They just wanted to stay alive, and had made a pact with each other, as they had no real feelings for defeating the enemy. Of course, any supposed deaths on the other side would be recorded as official casualties by the US war historians.

Let's just get on with the present, taking history as a guideline of what not to repeat, and use our present conscience and morals derived from intuitive Self to live out dharma.

Aum Namasivaya

kallol
29 November 2011, 08:53 AM
Then where will you put Gulf of Cambay discovery which had been dated to beyond 12500 BC ? Having well laid out cities under sea.

Further archeology was stopped by Congress Govt.

The artifacts found out from the expedition was mind boggling. Check out from Google.

http://www.spiritofmaat.com/announce/oldcity.htm

http://www.ancientsites.com/aw/Article/1099190

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/BadrinaryanB1.php

I know as I was part of the Institute when it happened

anisha_astrologer
30 November 2011, 01:06 AM
Vannakkam: IMHO, all history is distorted, if not severely. The history of Bharat is not an exception to the rule, just more apparent because here on this forum we have citizens of Bharat. When a false accusation or portrayal is close to home, we feel it more.

The natives, of North America, practically all wars, why civilisations disappeared, controversial figures, and more is written up as some sort of fact, when its just loaded with interpretation and bias. Not only that, but there is intentional burning of books and records.

You won't find too much about the deliberate placing of smallpox on blankets given to the natives of North America in the British or Catholic Church histories. But the First nations peoples remember it very well.

I still remember a Vietnam veteran's account of his years in Vietnam. (My apologies if I've told this story before ... honestly can't remember) He told me how he and his group would go out each day, over one hill, fire off a few rounds at the next tree, and then call in, all lies about what had happened. They just wanted to stay alive, and had made a pact with each other, as they had no real feelings for defeating the enemy. Of course, any supposed deaths on the other side would be recorded as official casualties by the US war historians.

Let's just get on with the present, taking history as a guideline of what not to repeat, and use our present conscience and morals derived from intuitive Self to live out dharma.

Aum Namasivaya
i agree. history is afterall something recorded by men and hence subject to individual view point and manipulation. America glorifies in its history which is a few hundred years old but the rich and older history of Native americans is rarely mentioned to.

PARAM
01 December 2011, 10:58 AM
I know as I was part of the Institute when it happened
:iagree:


Vannakkam: IMHO, all history is distorted, if not severely.

Islam and Christianity are main mahAadharm which destroyed pre-Islamic and pre-Christian History, true history of the world is destroyed.

kallol
04 December 2011, 11:05 AM
Another link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVFDhhMGpSE&feature=related

Eastern Mind
14 December 2011, 09:32 AM
Vannakkam: I ran into this today. http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indians-are-not-descendants-of-aryans-study/1/163645.html and thought it would be good to share, as further proof that there was no AIT.
Aum Namasivaya

TTCUSM
17 March 2012, 11:34 AM
Vanakkam Everyone,

A few weeks ago, I made an interesting discovery regarding the date of the Mahabharata war. Book 5, Section 74 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05074.htm) mentions a list of kings who will be born at the beginning of the Kali Yuga:


Even as, when Dharma became extinct, Kali was born in the race of Asuras flourishing with prosperity and blazing with energy, so was born Udavarta among the Haihayas. Janamejaya among the Nepas, Vahula among the Talajanghas, proud Vasu among the Krimis, Ajavindu among

p. 161

the Suviras, Rushardhik among the Surashtras, Arkaja among the Valihas, Dhautamulaka among the Chinas, Hayagriva among the Videhas, Varayu among the Mahaujasas, Vahu among the Sundaras, Pururavas among the Diptakshas, Sahaja among the Chedis and Matsyas, Vrishaddhaja among the Praviras, Dharana among the Chandra-batsyas, Bigahana among the Mukutas and Sama among the Nandivegas. These vile individuals, O Krishna, spring up, at the end of each Yuga, in their respective races, for the destruction of their kinsmen.

This passage from the Mahabharata mentions a Chinese emperor named Dhautamulaka. The Chinese kept very accurate records of their emperors and dynasties, so if we can figure out who Dhautamulaka is, we can determine when the Kali Yuga started.

According to Srila Prabhupada's Vedabase, "dhauta (http://vedabase.net/d/dhauta)" is Sanskrit for "clean", and "mulaka (http://vedabase.net/m/mulakah)" is Sanskrit for "root". We need to find a Chinese emperor whose name means "clean root" and who caused destruction in his empire.

I found a very useful Chinese dictionary (http://www.chinesedictionary.net/) online. According to this dictionary, the Chinese word for "clean (http://www.chinesedictionary.net/translate-english/clean)" is "Jie".

According to Wikipedia's list of Chinese emperors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_monarchs), there was a ruler named Jie who came at the end of the Xia dynasty. According to his Wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jie_(Xia_dynasty_ruler)), King Jie lived from 1728 to 1675 BCE. It also says that he was a tyrant who engaged in drinking and womanizing. This fits his description in the Mahabharata perfectly.

Therefore, we can safely conclude that the Kali Yuga began at around 1700 BCE.