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mfisher
20 September 2010, 08:13 AM
Nameste to all,

I'm new to posting here. I'm grateful that such a forum exists as I am exploring this wonderful spiritual path.

I feel that I'm ready to go to a Temple but should I dress a certain way to be respectful? I am a white woman. I have been unable to reach anyone by phone there.

Thanks to all,

Seva

Believer
20 September 2010, 12:08 PM
Welcome to the forum.
I will let some of the female members guide you on the dress code for temples; although in general, a pair of pants and a tunic with long sleeves would do.
Good luck!

Eastern Mind
20 September 2010, 01:43 PM
Vannakkam mfisher: Welcome to HDF. The main thing I advise western friends when they come on their curiousity trip to the temple I attend is modesty. If there is an Indian clothing store anywhere near you the owners there would gladly help you out with a suit. Saris can be very difficult at first, and I wouldn't suggest it. Still it you're daring almost any Indian woman, shops or otherwise, would be willing to help.

At most South Indian style temples, women traditionally wear saris, whilst at most North Indian style temples, its more suits (salwar kameez) which you can even purchase on line if you do a search. There are no hard and fast rules in any temple I know of, but there might be in some. Best wishes and let us know how it goes. If you tell us which city (optional of course), someone here might know someone or be nearby themselves.

Aum namasivaya

c.smith
20 September 2010, 01:57 PM
A side note - many mandirs request that leather item not be worn or entered into the temple.

Believer
20 September 2010, 02:18 PM
EM, Is an investment in a Salvar-kameez or a Sari really necessary for a first visit to a temple to get one's feet wet?
I hope you don't own a clothing store. :)


..... almost any Indian woman, shops or otherwise, would be willing to help.

OP's coming to this forum and making a post with the question, tells me that she is not in contact with "any Indian woman", and is not familiar with any India specific clothing stores that may be in the vicinity.

Bottom line is modesty and the comfort with which one can sit on the ground with the clothing one has on; specific pieces of clothing worn in a North Indian style or a South Indian style, or any other style of Hindu temple is immaterial.

Eastern Mind
20 September 2010, 02:47 PM
Vannakkam mfisher: So it really depends on how far you want to look like you fit in... it's your decision, and yours alone. No one will mind if its modest. Suits and saris can be quite inexpensive or very expensive, so the 'investment' as another poster pointed out is relative to your own financial situation. I was just pointing out that you may feel better about it that way. So much depends on the individual's take on the matter. It's certainly not necessary. Personally I would just advise to just go, and see how you feel. There are some temples nowadays where just about anything goes, but that saddens many of us. If it all goes well, you may become a regular there.

Aum Namasivaya

mfisher
20 September 2010, 02:57 PM
Thank you for your replies...

I'm actually looking at 2 temples near Washington, DC. One is the Hindu Temple of Washington DC. The other is the Sri Siva Vishnu Temple in Lanham, Maryland. They both offer a lot of educational opportunites as well as spiritual services.

If anyone is familiar with either Temple and can give me an idea of what the dress is, it would be appreciated.

Seva
Melissa

Believer
20 September 2010, 04:41 PM
Miss M,

General Notes:
1. Don't expect an official greeter at the door. In Hindu temples, one goes to the temple to greet the Lord. Don't interpret a general lack of acknowledgement of your presence as unfriendliness.
2. Visit more than one temple, if possible. Once, you are comfortable at one of them and feel that you have found "a home", you can observe how the females dress and emulate them, if you so desire.
3. In most temples, females sit on one side of the alter and the males on the other. Seat yourself with the right gender side.
4. Temples serve prasadam (food sanctified by the Lord) after the service. It could vary from a small serving of some sweets to a full meal. Do partake in that. If the Prasadam is a sit-down full meal, then that is the time to socialize with other people on the table, and ask questions about whatever is on your mind regarding the etiquette.
5. Perseverance is the key to cultivating familiarity and being accepted as part of the congregation. A Westerner has to prove that their visit(s) to the temple is/are not just a passing phase before people warm up to them.
6. Western oriented ISKCON (Hare Krishna) temples or the the Siva temples run by the Himalayan Academy, or (whatever else is out there) operate a little differently than the Indian run Hindu temples, and have more Western devotees.
7. Even if your first visit to a temple is not as exciting/uplifting/inspiring as expected, give it few more tries. Sometimes, the newness takes longer to become routine.

Hope somebody from the two temples that you intend to visit will post some more helpful hints.

Eastern Mind
20 September 2010, 04:42 PM
Vannakam mfisher:

You're lucky to have such choices. You can go and compare. The styles will be quite different, as one is typical North, and the other is typical South, so if you do go to both, you'll get a well rounded feeling.

One day I want to pilgrimage to a third temple nearby, the Murugan temple of North America, as Murugan calls me personally. But that's just me. There are also the basic two choices of 1) when there is no crowd, and 2) when there is a crowd. Both have advantages and disadvantages. In 1 it is more likely the priest or pundit may be able to talk to you, and you won't be distracted by people, but in 2 you get to watch what others do, and feel the energy of the bhaktars around you. Have fun.

At Believer: Great advice.

Aum Namasivaya

mfisher
20 September 2010, 05:07 PM
Namaste,

Thank you for your kind replies. Your information was exactly what I was looking for! I am very excited for my first visit...

Seva
Melissa

ScottMalaysia
20 September 2010, 08:28 PM
As mentioned by others, the important thing is modesty. I'd recommend a skirt (at least knee-length) and a modest top with sleeves and a high neckline.

However, if you are a Hindu convert or are thinking about converting, then I'd recommend you get yourself a sari or shalwar kameez and wear that. Most of the women at our temple wear saris. Even if they don't at your temple, by wearing one you are declaring to the people there that you are a Hindu, not just a visitor.

It's also a good idea to make sure the clothes you wear to the temple are clean (freshly washed if preferable). You should also bathe before going to the temple (but don't worry if it's not possible/practical; just go anyway!).

Another point I want to draw your attention to: don't be discouraged if most of the temple service is in another language (Hindi, Gujarati etc), as it often is. You're there to worship God, who understands all languages.

Believer
20 September 2010, 08:46 PM
I'd recommend a skirt (at least knee-length)
One of the Hindu temples in our area denied entrance even to a Indian Hindu girl who came in a skirt.
Be warned about that!
No point in starting on the wrong foot.

Eastern Mind
15 October 2010, 01:36 PM
Vannakkam:

I'm so curious as to how all this went for mfisher. I wish we'd all hear back more often from this type of thing so we could evaluate our advice and perhaps alter it based on what happened. Hopefully, all went okay. Even if someone has a negative experience, it would be good to hear that too. One of our collective roles is to help.
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
27 October 2010, 10:13 PM
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this Forum and I'm really excited to be here.
I'm a white woman also and I have been Hindu for about 10 years.
It's interesting what you are saying about dressing so that you look Hindu instead of looking like a westerner.

I often feel out of place in Indian style clothing, I feel like I look like a "wanna be Indian" I usually dress in my own kind of Indian like style and feel comfortable with that. I have one shalwar kameez, it's gorgeous but I only wear it on special occasions.
I'm planning to wear it on our Temple's Diwali festival.

Maya

Eastern Mind
28 October 2010, 10:46 AM
Vannakkam Maya3: I think its very individual. I never go to temple in western clothes, but that's just me. We were at a temple just last Tuesday, and a Tamil gent who is very traditional stood just outside the door because he wasn't in veshti, and he didn't feel he should come right in. He had come for some other purpose and then only realised there was a special puja going on. For me, its been 'the more you wear Indian, the more comfortable you get/feel. My wife feels very comfortable in sari because she's been at it 35 years or so. I rarely get the feeling or stare of "You're trying to hard" but I also don't watch other people's reactions much either, because I don't really care about that sort of stuff.

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
28 October 2010, 01:09 PM
Eastern Mind,

It might be that I'm not used to it.
My own communities are very western. Both my Ashram and my temple have mostly western members.
Our guru at the Ashram was a scientist and his focus was East West Unity so it's a pretty mixed crowd.

My Temple is a Bhakti Smarta temple and though the Puja's are 100 procent Hindu/Indian style, our Kirtan during and after the Puja are more western style.

But when I have gone to a temple with more of an Indian crowd, I feel more comfortable wearing "Indianish/me" clothes I feel like you said that I'd be "trying too hard" if I wore Indian clothes.

Maya

Eastern Mind
05 November 2010, 07:06 PM
Vannakkam: I like this:

http://www.icctmemphis.org/nl/TempleEtiquette.html

But I wonder how it (the dress part) went over at first. Its been a year now, and I am guessing people in the neighbourhood have adjusted. I'm guessing the board got sick of the real casual dress like jeans, and t-shirts with slogans.

Anybody here near Memphis?

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
06 November 2010, 10:14 AM
I went to my temple for Diwali celebrations on Thursday and because of this discussion I noticed what people were wearing.
There were people in very traditional Saris, Salwar Kamez (sp?) Business suits, Jeans and sweater, jeans with long Indian shirt over.
This is a western temple though and even though there were quite a good number of people of Indian decent on Thursday the majority is western in all colors and nationalities.

Maya

Eastern Mind
07 November 2010, 07:49 AM
Vannakkam Maya: Wow. With one exception, I have never been to a Hindu temple where the majority is western. Usually there are no or very few other westerners. At my temple here, the total number of different westerners in a given year is probably less than 20. Compare that to about 2000 Indian, Sri Lankan, and others. On several occasions while on pilgrimage, my wife and I have been the ONLY whites/westerners.

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
07 November 2010, 08:41 AM
Eastern Mind,

I just discovered this temple, Iīm SO excited about it. Itīs really amazing.

Itīs truly Hindu, real Pujaīs by an Indian Priest (mostly) and sometimes a western priest.
The Kirtans are very western and really beautiful.

Maya

Maya3
07 November 2010, 10:03 AM
Maybe I should clarify that the Kirtan is in Sanskrit but sung in a more western style.

Maya

Sahasranama
07 November 2010, 10:06 AM
Something like this, a sanskrit mantra sung in pop music style?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agxf-sqruXU&feature=player_embedded#!

Eastern Mind
07 November 2010, 10:24 AM
Something like this, a sanskrit mantra sung in pop music style?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agxf-sqruXU&feature=player_embedded#!

Vannakkam: Whoa! I didn't like it, but to each his own I guess. Reminded me too much of Christian Rock or something. Some way to liven up things so you get kids interested. I guess I'm just a traditionalist. I much prefer the soft melodic stuff. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg88CknV1zY&feature=fvw

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
07 November 2010, 11:12 AM
I also prefer traditional Indian music. It has a completely different type of energy. In the west people are confused about kirtana, many people don't even see it as a religious practice, but give it all sorts of new age meanings. But the important thing in kirtanana is that the divine names of the gods are chanted, so I am all for westeners using Hindu chants in their music, it's better than the crappy lyrics you hear on the radio.

Maya3
07 November 2010, 11:33 AM
Something like this, a sanskrit mantra sung in pop music style?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agxf-sqruXU&feature=player_embedded#!

Yes and no, itīs not that lively at all in the Temple, but the same kind of singing style, more melodic.

Not the same as what EM posted.

More western voices, but slower and more heartfelt.

There are a lot of Western Kirtanists that are very popular now, itīs kind of like that, but a little more catered to a puja temple setting.
We do it kind of mixed with the priests more traditional chanting and then our style more toward the end.
Not sure how else to explain it.

Maya

Sahasranama
07 November 2010, 11:54 AM
More like krishna das? I am not very familiar with western kirtana.

Maya3
07 November 2010, 12:00 PM
Kind of more like Krishna Das, or Deva Premal, but with less music. Just a harmonium or an Indian string instrument.

My ashram too has very different chanting then in an mostly Indian Hindu temple.

Maya

TatTvamAsi
07 November 2010, 03:59 PM
Something like this, a sanskrit mantra sung in pop music style?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agxf-sqruXU&feature=player_embedded#!

God save the Hindus!

Sahasranama
07 November 2010, 06:03 PM
I must admit, when I first heard westerners sing Hindu chants, I was a little held back about it. When I first found a clip of Krishna Das singing, I was counting the syllables he mispronounced which to my suprise were only a few. But later I realised that some westerners who have not been exposed to Indian culture need to express themselves according their own customs. Even Indian singers slip here and there or have certain accents. The essence of the chants don't get lost if it is sung in a different tune or melody. Maybe it's not good enough for a formal ritual, but if this music makes people drawn towards the divine, then I can't see anything wrong with it. We see the limitless everywhere, he can even be expressed through a foreign melody.

Men profess to be lovers of music, but for the most part they give no evidence of it in their opinions and lives that they have heard it. It would not leave them narrow-minded and bigoted. ~ Henry David Thoreau.

Personally I prefer Indian devotional music, mostly classical or traditional. I hardly listen to westerners sing, but in the end it's just a matter of taste. I have also noticed in myself that whenever I hear someone shows me a westerner singing Hindu chants, I quickly dismiss it as amateurish. I don't think this is a good habit of mine, I should be happy to see people chanting the names of our beloved Hindu deities.

Maya3
07 November 2010, 07:50 PM
I must admit, when I first heard westerners sing Hindu chants, I was a little held back about it. When I first found a clip of Krishna Das singing, I was counting the syllables he mispronounced which to my suprise were only a few. But later I realised that some westerners who have not been exposed to Indian culture need to express themselves according their own customs. Even Indian singers slip here and there or have certain accents. The essence of the chants don't get lost if it is sung in a different tune or melody. Maybe it's not good enough for a formal ritual, but if this music makes people drawn towards the divine, then I can't see anything wrong with it. We see the limitless everywhere, he can even be expressed through a foreign melody.

Men profess to be lovers of music, but for the most part they give no evidence of it in their opinions and lives that they have heard it. It would not leave them narrow-minded and bigoted. ~ Henry David Thoreau.

Personally I prefer Indian devotional music, mostly classical or traditional. I hardly listen to westerners sing, but in the end it's just a matter of taste. I have also noticed in myself that whenever I hear someone shows me a westerner singing Hindu chants, I quickly dismiss it as amateurish. I don't think this is a good habit of mine, I should be happy to see people chanting the names of our beloved Hindu deities.


Thank you Sharasanama!

The temple rituals at my temple are very formal.
But when it comes to our singing after the formalities are over we really cannot be expected to sound Indian.
We are NOT Indian, we do not speak with an Indian accent.
Nor have we grown up with a Indian musical tradition or Indian culture, so yes we need to sing in a way that feels right for US.
I really agree Sharsanama, people have to approach the divine from their heart.
Also like you said, shouldn't people be glad that we have found Hindu Dharma?
Like you mentioned you didn't find many mispronunciations in Krishna Das singing.
As a matter of fact many of us Western Hindu's are studying Sanskrit. My own teachers are completely fluent.

I think it's really cool that there are so many different ways to feel closer to The Self. One way or another we'll all find our way home.

Maya

Sahasranama
07 November 2010, 08:07 PM
A few weeks ago I was listening to an ISCKON lady singing a south Indian bhajan. I thought it was amazing, even though the voice is a little soft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75o_GMm-uO0

When I first heard this Meera Bhajan, sung by a muslim, with so much feel for the words "meera ke prabhu giradharanagara" tears were flowing out of my eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuyqIPn8Axs

edit: I just stumbled upon this website with western kirtana:
http://www.yogaofkirtan.com/Site/Yoga_of_Kirtan_homepage.html

Maya3
07 November 2010, 08:58 PM
A few weeks ago I was listening to an ISCKON lady singing a south Indian bhajan. I thought it was amazing, even though the voice is a little soft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75o_GMm-uO0

When I first heard this Meera Bhajan, sung by a muslim, with so much feel for the words "meera ke prabhu giradharanagara" tears were flowing out of my eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuyqIPn8Axs

Both are really beautiful!

Maya

ScottMalaysia
08 November 2010, 03:31 AM
The temple rituals at my temple are very formal.
But when it comes to our singing after the formalities are over we really cannot be expected to sound Indian.
We are NOT Indian, we do not speak with an Indian accent.
Nor have we grown up with a Indian musical tradition or Indian culture, so yes we need to sing in a way that feels right for US.
I really agree Sharsanama, people have to approach the divine from their heart.
Also like you said, shouldn't people be glad that we have found Hindu Dharma?
Like you mentioned you didn't find many mispronunciations in Krishna Das singing.
As a matter of fact many of us Western Hindu's are studying Sanskrit. My own teachers are completely fluent.

What kind of temple do you go to?

Maya3
08 November 2010, 06:50 AM
A Bhakti/Smarta Temple

I'm Advaita, but I really love this temple. Especially for the chanting :)

Maya

Jainarayan
03 June 2011, 09:24 AM
If and when I am able to visit my first temple, I want to be sure I do "the right thing".

I know about removing shoes (socks possibly?), and anything leather. Almost all dress belts are made of leather.

I'm thinking it would be OK to wear a nice open collar shirt, or a polo type shirt, and nice slacks. I wouldn't wear jeans to temple any more than I'd wear them in a Christian church, to a mosque or to a synagogue. Somehow jeans seem wrong (jmo).

I read about bringing some flowers and/or a fruit offering.

Anything else I need to do or not do as a man?

Eastern Mind
03 June 2011, 03:40 PM
If and when I am able to visit my first temple, I want to be sure I do "the right thing".

I know about removing shoes (socks possibly?), and anything leather. Almost all dress belts are made of leather.

I'm thinking it would be OK to wear a nice open collar shirt, or a polo type shirt, and nice slacks. I wouldn't wear jeans to temple any more than I'd wear them in a Christian church, to a mosque or to a synagogue. Somehow jeans seem wrong (jmo).

I read about bringing some flowers and/or a fruit offering.

Anything else I need to do or not do as a man?

Vannakkam Minotaur: It may depend on which temple you're going to. If they have a website, look there. It's hard to go wrong if you do what you say above. When you arrive you can have a look around to see what others are doing, and follow their lead. The main thing is just to be respctful. There are no standards. For example, in most South Indian style temples, men do full out prostrations, while in the North they don't. This is just a generalisation.

You can buy denim belts (Levis, others ... if you have a hemp clothing store anywhere nearby, that's a good place to look) but many Indians do wear leather belts to temple these days. Same with wallets. As you said, its tough to find.

Best wishes on it, and do let us know how it goes.

Aum Namasivaya

charitra
03 June 2011, 04:29 PM
Namaste
whatever the orthodoxy might say, we hindus flout the aacharas all the time not out of disespect but out of sheer mutual love that god wont punish us on such trivial transgressions as are often debated here. Yes we all wear leather belts and take leather wallets inside temple.Please dont buy anything you otherwise dont use. I havent seen any hindu doing it. Some dont/ some do prostrate. A standing posture with a simple namaste attitude is very standard whilst praying or listening to a pundit reciting the mantras. As EMji said, it is practical to just do what others do, since lots of us dont take small details seriously. This applies to all mandirs uniformly, unless of course one is into any one sampradaya and one is a very serious devout hindu bhakta. This again of course presumably wont happen overnight, as it is a long and arduous process, in my humble opinion one must begin where the beginning lies.Taking pictures is a bad idea in general.

Jainarayan
03 June 2011, 05:21 PM
Ah, thank you very much! :)

Come to think of it I don't yet know if the temple I would go to is northern or southern. I suspect northern, because many, many Indians in this area are Gujarati. The temple does have a website which I looked at. I looked at the schedule of services, though of course I didn't understand 99.99879% of what it all meant. :o As I look again I'm sure I'll pick up some more info.

It seems the temple is open almost all the time during the day, perhaps like churches so people can go meditate and pray on their own. I think I'd like to do that first, as I secretly watch what others do. I don't know when I'll get to go, as it's about 20 miles, 2/3 of the way to and from work. I'm sure I could go right after work on my way home, or in the morning (I'm always late to work anyway lol). Perhaps it might not be a bad idea to visit the Lord's house at the beginning and/or end of the day.

I'm sure that right now I am being self-conscious. I know that will pass, as I am a "quick study". I know that in any faith people often "sweat the small stuff". When I was Eastern Orthodox Christian (I was Catholic before that), my EO priest used to say about fasting "God doesn't need the fast, man does". Another saying was that if you had refused the Lord's invitation to dine, even at the last minute of the last hour He would welcome you and set a place.