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satay
31 October 2006, 03:11 PM
namaste,
Who created this mess, who thought of creating a man, gave him a mind that never stops, never calms down, splits in million directions from second to second...

we run like a mad horses all our lives from childhood to old age, most of us without a second of rest or peace, why?

scriptures tell us to calm the mind, surrender everything to GOD, every breath, every thought, everything, get rid of ego...yet why is it so hard to do?

what is this test man is going through, a pointless rat race...who is getting pleasure out of this race...is someone watching us run like idiots like this out of control every second of every day...

are we just an experiment in someone's lab?

satay
31 October 2006, 03:16 PM
Why does it feel like we are all alone sometimes?
a visit to the hospital,
screaming old people with pain,
an old man who can now get up from his chair even to do his daily oblations,
an old lady sits in next room breathing so hard that the machine attached to her keeps beeping constantly,

where is karnuna karnam's karuna? why he doesn't interfere and simply watches the show...does it please him to see this experiment?

satay
31 October 2006, 03:37 PM
If GOD is karnuna karunam or all full of compassion and love why does existence suffer?

Yet suffering seems to bring something out of a man that he never knew he had...in suffering a man turns to the temple, to GOD, to his duty, to dharma...is it that a man only matures through suffering?

Sudarshan
31 October 2006, 03:41 PM
where is karnuna karnam's karuna? why he doesn't interfere and simply watches the show...does it please him to see this experiment?

Feeling sorry for you is out of question for Bhagavan. Why? Because we feel sorry if we find ourselves unable to help some one even if we want to do it. In the Lord's case there is no such thing as inability to do it.

Regarding other questions, you have to meet the Lord and ask him these questions. In all probability, when you meet the Lord you will be filled with so much happiness that you will forget your miseries and embrace him tightly. No person who ever met the Lord has described him as anything other than a karuNa mUrti. Selfless love is found only in God - human love is only opportunistic. Even the so called selfless love betwen friends or couples is based on mutual reciprocation. There is only being who loves you for what you are - God. If children cry and feel unhappy with you just because you do not comply with all their wishes, does not mean you are not a loving parent. We do not know yet who this God is, and why he is toying with everything as if for fun - those who know speaketh not, those who speak knoweth not! The day you find God puts an end to these questions which are endless. So the only question worth asking is - "How I may find God who is apparently crazy from my perspective?". Here too, he ran amok - creating many religions and ways and confused everybody. He is a great mAyAvi - my guess is he fooled everybody by making very temporary things appear much more worthier than himself.

satay
31 October 2006, 03:45 PM
...and so Growth continues...as suffering is increased so is growth of man...and sansar happens...

satay
31 October 2006, 03:47 PM
...and so the word 'vedana'...suffering is knowledge or so it seems...

without suffering one is unaware of existence...

Sudarshan
31 October 2006, 03:59 PM
Are you in any suffering today? Hehe...

I find that when some dear relative dies, all relatives gather and cry, and console themselves by talking vedanta. A few days later, God is conveniently pushed into the background and the topics revert to cinema, politics and sports. Without some reason, people wont even think of God.:(

satay
31 October 2006, 03:59 PM
To a sane man at least, GOD seems to be a crazy mad man regardless of which religion is describing GOD.

Who in his right mind would create this chaos mess, illogical nonsense system, put us in this experiment and watch the fun...

sometimes...a simple villager seems more logical and sane than GOD.

satay
31 October 2006, 04:00 PM
Are you in any suffering today? Hehe...

I find that when some dear relative dies, all relatives gather and cry, and console themselves by talking vedanta. A few days later, God is conveniently pushed into the background and the topics revert to cinema, politics and sports. Without some reason, people wont even think of God.:(

:)

this is a diary of a madman...the questions I ask are not to be answered...only the master madman can answer these...

satay
31 October 2006, 04:04 PM
I am lucky that I am in the dharma fold...so I can call GOD a crazy mad man and slam him down...
...what's the worst that can happen...more 'pap' and more misery...so be it... mad man!

Sudarshan
31 October 2006, 04:12 PM
What can a mad man create? A bunch of other mad men who keep whining. Just kidding.

I prefer to stay away from calling God a mad man - but I am certainly one, being his creation.

satay
31 October 2006, 04:14 PM
all this is actually nonsense...we live in small bubbles...we can not really change ourselves...let alone change others...we can not change even a bit of our internal inherent nature...greed, ego, chaplusi, all this nonsense is our nature...man is nothing but all this nonsense...even worst than normal animal...

yet, scriptures say our nature is 'divine'... i don't see any divine anywhere inside me. I see a cunning madman running after useless nonsensensical things...nothing is in my control...except my own choices...that also don't really seem to belong to me and are governed...

is this all an illusion? what good is inert brhaman to me? that's the question of a businessman...GOD...what good are you to me? Can you perform some act for me...some entertainment at least...

if this is all real and there is bhagwan...even then what good is GOD to me while he sits and watches the show...

mind...stop now...and again you reject my command and run elsewhere...

OM

satay
31 October 2006, 04:17 PM
That's enough for today..

Sudarshan
31 October 2006, 04:20 PM
I am lucky that I am in the dharma fold...so I can call GOD a crazy mad man and slam him down...
...what's the worst that can happen...more 'pap' and more misery...so be it... mad man!

Be Careful! This "pap" could force you to be born in mleccha family, where you cannot utter these in the fear of getting roasted. Guess you dont want that...dont abuse freedom - first step in spiritual instruction.;)

satay
31 October 2006, 04:50 PM
Be Careful! This "pap" could force you to be born in mleccha family, where you cannot utter these in the fear of getting roasted. Guess you dont want that...dont abuse freedom - first step in spiritual instruction.;)
Indeed this proves that we do not even control our choices.

willie
31 October 2006, 09:10 PM
Bring on the pap it has kept holymen in business for years. And most people like it.

Sounds like free will has you down, how much better would it be is there were no freewill. Just move around like a robot and never worry about what might happen later, being that it is all gods plan.

satay
31 October 2006, 10:02 PM
desire after desire after desire...to what end...

sarabhanga
01 November 2006, 08:33 PM
Q. Who created this mess?
A. Avidya.

Q. Who thought of creating a man?
A. Brahma.

Q. Who gave him a mind that never stops, never calms down, splits in million directions from second to second?
A. Hari.

Q. Why do we run like a mad horses all our lives from childhood to old age, most of us without a second of rest or peace?
A. Avidya

Q. Scriptures tell us to calm the mind, surrender everything to GOD, every breath, every thought, everything, get rid of ego...yet why is it so hard to do?
A. Because there has been only tacit surrender and no true dissolution of ego.

Q. What is this test man is going through, a pointless rat race...who is getting pleasure out of this race...is someone watching us run like idiots like this out of control every second of every day?
A. It is those who are “out of control” who are running their own race and ultimately doing it all to satisfy their own misguided desires.

atanu
02 November 2006, 07:57 AM
desire after desire after desire...to what end...

Sage Vashistha told this story to Rama.

Sage saw a fierce ugly man with thousand hands, each hand equipped with a club. The ugly one was beating himself and crying out in pain and running hither and thither. Occassionally he would stop beating himself and enter a garden or a pond and take some respite. Then again he would start. Running to a forest, over thorny biushes, over fire etc.

Then finally he started cutting his arms. When all the arms where cut he reposed in peace.

Vashistha said: This is the mind, know Rama, the nature of mind.

Till the mind extends out with thousand arms and thousand eyes, with the idea that beautiful and attractive object I see is not me and therefore I want to possess it, the burning fire will be there (my comments).

Om Namah Shivayya

There is another story. A very sad man, who had lost his son came to Ramana. Seeing Ramana indiffrent, he started complaining and then finally abusing. Then Raman told him the story.

Rama and Krishna were two brilliant students who went abroad to study and work. After a long time a business man from their village went abroad and met Rama, who related how happy and propsperous he was and about the sad demise of his friend Krishna.

Businessman came home and mixed up the names. He told Rama's father that Rama was dead. Oh, they were then very sad. Krishna's father was however jubilant.

Mind is a beautiful but a very dangerous thing. And that mind belongs to oneself alone.

Om Namah Shivayya

saidevo
02 November 2006, 08:57 AM
Some thoughts:

1. One form of avidya is the desire beyond the minimum requirements of welfare.

2. There is a gap of inactivity between a thought and and the next; a word and and the next; a deed and the next. This gap is apparently empty. If only we can fill this gap with atma darshan and can consciously increase the gap...

3. Mind is ruled by our breathing, whose rhythm is upset by thoughts, words and deeds. The slower and deeper we breathe, the greater the control of mind, though this is very difficult to maintain consistently.

4. When we sleep, the consciousness is initially focussed on random thoughts, and gradually slips to our astral and mental bodies as sleep sets in. It is said that if we can watch this exact process of falling asleep with repeated self assertion that we will 'stay awake' in dreams, we could get lucid dreams with control of consciousness, where we can switch our dream scenes at will.

5. The VIBGYOR sprectrum of the rainbow corresponds to the colors of our chakras, starting from the top (sahasrara). Visualizing these seven colors before we fall asleep, helps relaxation of body and mind. Another technique of relaxation given by Swami J. is giving conscious attention to each and every body part, both external and external.

satay
02 November 2006, 12:26 PM
mind...what are you? Are you maya of Hari?

Is this world real or does it exist in you?

satay
02 November 2006, 12:34 PM
Am I a man or human?

osho explains it well...

I am still a man...a static concept like 'dog', 'monkey' or 'donkey'...I am sitting, not going anywhere, crippled, dead, like a grave...

a transformation has to happen...transform to a 'human'...a growing concept, an open concept, a river, not knowing where the ocean is but trying to reach...not afraid of 'death'

Znanna
02 November 2006, 05:43 PM
Am I a man or human?

osho explains it well...

I am still a man...a static concept like 'dog', 'monkey' or 'donkey'...I am sitting, not going anywhere, crippled, dead, like a grave...

a transformation has to happen...transform to a 'human'...a growing concept, an open concept, a river, not knowing where the ocean is but trying to reach...not afraid of 'death'


All U are belong to Us.

:P



ZN

willie
02 November 2006, 09:28 PM
So who but brahman created all that man has to put up with? So we are afflicted by those forces who created us. I hope these forces are happy with themselves and will eventually have to pay for these errors.

But some with freewill look down the road , of time, and realize that actions now will cost them a lot later on and choose not to take those actions.

Perhaps this is brahman saying, 'don't do it' and some people listen others don't.

atanu
04 November 2006, 01:37 PM
All U are belong to Us.

:P
ZN

WHO U? WHO US? Satay's mood has taken hold of some U and US?
Do not understand your cryptograms very well. Would U like to reduce the entropy or raise it? Will U Please explain what U mean by 'All U are belong to Us'.

atanu
04 November 2006, 01:39 PM
-----I hope these forces are happy with themselves and will eventually have to pay for these errors.

-------

They are already paying. It is taught that U and they (US) never separated.

Znanna
04 November 2006, 02:35 PM
WHO U? WHO US? Satay's mood has taken hold of some U and US?
Do not understand your cryptograms very well. Would U like to reduce the entropy or raise it? Will U Please explain what U mean by 'All U are belong to Us'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cultural_references_to_%22All_your_base_are_belong_to_us%22


Hope that helps :)


ZN

willie
04 November 2006, 08:32 PM
So now it comes down to who can take the most abuse and pain. And by suffering this pain it makes these forces forces suffer also. I will go with the freewill as this plane of existence can be a rough place and it is not for wimps. People have to be able to take a lot of pain and suffering to get by.

As it says in the I jing, "better to be raised by a model than a critic" so I think that some day these forces will figure out that the current situation is not working and so it might be time to supply some real leadership. Maybe this will happen soon as there is the rumor of statues drinking milk and this should protend a great soul being born. Well is this is so them bring it on, its about time for some real leadership other then the current crop of holymen who can only agrue about some books written thousands of years ago and cannot come to an agrement.

yajvan
04 November 2006, 09:41 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

So now it comes down to who can take the most abuse and pain. And by suffering this pain it makes these forces forces suffer also. I will go with the freewill as this plane of existence can be a rough place and it is not for wimps. People have to be able to take a lot of pain and suffering to get by.

Namaste and hello Willie,
I see your point... I can only rely on the great ones to give me (us?) guidence...

The great brahmarishi Gaudapada tells us what the Supreme Truth is:
«The supreme truth is this: there is no birth and no dissolution, no aspirant to liberation and no liberated, and no one who is in slavery» (Mandukyakarika, II, 32)

Now, do I live this truth? No I do not. Do I aspire for this level of being? Absolutely.
Will I achieve this ? ( and you) Absolutely - Sri Krsna says in the gita - no effort is ever lost. No one will ultimately be left behind. This is His Grace to us.
Will it happen this life? I do not know.

pranams,

sarabhanga
04 November 2006, 09:44 PM
“ Better to be raised by a model than by a critic ”

satay
05 November 2006, 02:45 PM
I am a madman...
apparently, not alone...

satay
05 November 2006, 07:14 PM
I wonder why GOD revealed to the hindus that 'no work goes without reward' (good or bad) and revealed to the peasants of the west that 'no amount of work will get you to me'...

strange...GOD might be doing what Gautama Sidhartha did to his students...reveal a message depending on the capability of the student...so sometimes the messages he gave were contradicting.

satay
05 November 2006, 07:24 PM
Lao Tzu says, "Let contradictions meet. Let paradoxes dissolve. Be paradoxical, because life is paradoxial. Live, and yet live as if you were dead. Then when you die, die as if you were entering into another life - higher life, greater life. Let paradoxes meet, mingle, fuse into one unity.


An alive Buddha is dangerous, but a dead Buddha can be worshipped in a temple and so is the case with jesus baba...and nanak (happy birthday shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji)

willie
05 November 2006, 08:55 PM
I can listen to these contradictions and people talk on both sided of any arguement presented and still it has no affect. Critical holymen have come and gone all the no avail because on close examation they lived no better then those they were critical of.

Madmen walk the street looking upon the misery of the world and wonder how higher powers could let it happen and what these powers have against man? So the madmen toughen up and keep walking and observing.

Holybooks , written in a long past time give solutions to long dead problems and only serve to divide humanity into waring camps of radical followers.

Could it be that brahman is a bit big to be owed by any religion of groups of followers? Could it be that brahman wants people to try and help each other , regardless of what religons are involved and to not have to rely on its intervention. Perhaps brahman is too great to be encompassed by any puny religion explained by any mad dog holyman. Maybe that is who organizations are formed to help the poor and feed the hungry? Could this be some devine work happening. Saying to tear down the walls that divide humanity.

satay
05 November 2006, 09:02 PM
Could it be that brahman is a bit big to be owed by any religion of groups of followers? Could it be that brahman wants people to try and help each other , regardless of what religons are involved and to not have to rely on its intervention. Perhaps brahman is too great to be encompassed by any puny religion explained by any mad dog holyman. Maybe that is who organizations are formed to help the poor and feed the hungry? Could this be some devine work happening. Saying to tear down the walls that divide humanity.

It could be but then again Brahman is inert and without any qualities. However, saguna brahman could want what you are saying but then again it is maya that we are all in so, in reality there is no one 'poor' and there is no need to feed the 'hungry'...none exist from absolute point of view!

sarabhanga
06 November 2006, 10:22 PM
I wonder why GOD revealed to the hindus that “no work goes without reward” (good or bad) and revealed to the peasants of the west that “no amount of work will get you to me” ...

All action must imply some change or effect, which is only possible in duality; although the perfect unity of Advaita remains eternally untouched by any activity or effort.

The suggested divergence of revelation is only a matter of perspective, with Dvaita characterized as the “hindu” understanding and Advaita revealed to “the peasants of the west” !!!

Ultimately, no amount of effort will ever “get you to me”, for so long as such dualistic distinctions as “you” and “me” remain there can never be perfect union! And here lies the fundamental importance of uniting “I” and “I”.


अहं … अस्मि
ahaṁ … asmi

εγω … ειμι
ego … eimi


I am … I am


अहं ब्रह्मास्मि ~ aham brahma asmi ~ Yajus

εγω ειμι ό ων ~ ego eimi ho on ~ Exodus


I am that eternal Being ~ I am that Brahman


ahaM = I am = ego = I am = asmi = I am = eimi = I am = brahma = supreme Being = ho on = that Being = 'o on = aum

ών <=> ॐ

ahaM brahma asmi = I am [that] Brahman I am = ego eimi ho on = I am that Being I am

ahaM is Jivatman; and asmi is Paramatman.

ahaM brahmAsmi = I am ‘I am Brahman’ = I am ‘I am Being’ = I am ‘I be’ = I am ‘I exist’ = I am ‘I am’ = I truly AM!

I am the every essence of ‘I am’ = I am Existence, itself = I am (I am) Brahman.


अहं (aham) is apparently quite different from अस्मि (asmi), but only for one who is ignorant of both Sanskrit and Vedanta! And since Advaita is neither ignorant of Sanskrit nor of Vedanta, the apparent difference is disregarded by all Advaitins!

In Advaita, no difference perceived.
In Vishishtadvaita, a qualitative distinction remains.
In Dvaita, the aham is regarded as essentially distinct from the asmi.

In Dvaita (including Samkhya and Islam), the ego (aham) can NEVER be equated with the eimi (asmi).

And most translations of the Christian Turiya (4th) Gospel render “I am I” in the sayings of Jesus simply as “I am”.



eyeh asher eyeh

sarabhanga
06 November 2006, 11:03 PM
Holy books written in a long past time give solutions to long dead problems and only serve to divide humanity into warring camps of radical followers.

The Holy Vedas, written long ago, give solutions to past, present, and future problems, and it is only their misinterpretation by divisive and critical (and thus essentially hypocritical) religious leaders that has caused any such harmful divisions and futile destructive wars!

satay
06 December 2006, 12:33 AM
mad men
roaming the mind,
without chains!

satay
25 January 2007, 10:32 PM
madness all around,
still no way out!

Ganeshprasad
26 January 2007, 04:31 PM
madness all around,
still no way out!

Pranam

The prison without any doors The Gita alludes to this Bg8.12

The harder i try the deeper i get dragged in to the quick send
If only i learn to give up the struggle, give up my hankering for pleasure which ain’t there but no, just one more drag (those of us who were addicted to that nasty habit and has tried to give it up would know) one more time oh yes.

We are like the monkeys, caught in the pot by not letting go off the peanuts.

Just chewing the chewed. That is our sorry state

Controlling all the (nine) doors of the body, the abode of consciousness; focusing the mind on the heart and Prana in the head (braham randhra), and engaged in yogic practice; (8.12)
One who leaves the body while meditating on Brahman and uttering OM, the sacred monosyllable sound of Brahman, attains the Supreme goal. (8.13)

Notice that the way out of this mad house, is not from the open doors (actually we should close them).

Jai Shree Krishna

satay
26 January 2007, 05:09 PM
Why are you mad, Satay?


namaste MG,
The term 'mad' here is used not as 'angry' but to describe the state of my mind.

satay
26 January 2007, 05:13 PM
Pranam
Notice that the way out of this mad house, is not from the open doors (actually we should close them).

Jai Shree Krishna
[/SIZE]

namaste GP,
pranam!
yes and as I understand it there is no 'out' because 'it' was never 'in' to begin with...the realization of this fact is the 'explosion'!
so easy to put in words...

Znanna
26 January 2007, 05:30 PM
"neglect none" says Twin :)


ZN

satay
26 January 2007, 06:05 PM
Yes, Satay, I know. I was asking what was stirring your mind.


ah...:)

Ganeshprasad
26 January 2007, 07:11 PM
"neglect none" says Twin :)


ZN

Pranam

"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet."

Jai Shree Krishna

Ganeshprasad
26 January 2007, 07:23 PM
namaste GP,
pranam!
yes and as I understand it there is no 'out' because 'it' was never 'in' to begin with...the realization of this fact is the 'explosion'!
so easy to put in words...

Pranam satay ji

Iam not sure i understand what is ment, but then it is my dulll brain
if i was never in why would i want out?

it never is easy and this is what Arjun said

Because the mind, indeed, is very unsteady, turbulent, powerful, and obstinate, O Krishna. I think restraining the mind is as difficult as restraining the wind. (6.34)

Jai Shree Krishna

Znanna
26 January 2007, 07:36 PM
Pranam

"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet."

Jai Shree Krishna


What is the difference between East and West but direction? :D

To create by intent, by agreement, this is the expression of men.

One might debate "whose intent", but in practice, it really doesn't matter. This is the expression of a heathen white girl :P

YMMV


Love,
ZN

Ganeshprasad
26 January 2007, 07:57 PM
What is the difference between East and West but direction? :D

To create by intent, by agreement, this is the expression of men.

One might debate "whose intent", but in practice, it really doesn't matter. This is the expression of a heathen white girl :P

YMMV


Love,
ZN

Hi Pranam

Nothing was ment of it i only used it in a light hearted way

There, Kipling is lamenting the gulf of understanding between the British and the inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent.

Jai Shree Krishna

satay
26 January 2007, 08:11 PM
Pranam satay ji

Iam not sure i understand what is ment,
if i was never in why would i want out?


namaskar,
I think it is my english!

we want 'out' because due to ignorance we think that we are 'in'. It is like the zen koan http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=10112#post10112

goose was never in! apparently, all that is needed is 'awareness' but I am sitting in ignorance too so can't be sure...

satay
20 July 2007, 02:57 PM
This week at work has been just dragging out...slow...slow slow...
I am so used to go...go...go...

When I couldn't take this slow madness anymore and asked my boss to give me more work...he simply said, "why don't you enjoy the downtime right now"
enjoy the downtime?? I don't drink or smoke, I am not addicted to any drug, if anything I am addicted to is that I need work...I need to be busy...I can't stand this downtime...yet I enjoy the silence during meditation...

Znanna
20 July 2007, 04:52 PM
This week at work has been just dragging out...slow...slow slow...
I am so used to go...go...go...

When I couldn't take this slow madness anymore and asked my boss to give me more work...he simply said, "why don't you enjoy the downtime right now"
enjoy the downtime?? I don't drink or smoke, I am not addicted to any drug, if anything I am addicted to is that I need work...I need to be busy...I can't stand this downtime...yet I enjoy the silence during meditation...



Namaste, satay,

As soldiers sleep when they can, perhaps y'all should enjoy the opportunity to meditate?

/just saying


ZN

atanu
21 July 2007, 01:26 AM
This week at work has been just dragging out...slow...slow slow...
I am so used to go...go...go...

----meditation...


There was a time when I used to go go go for 18 hours a day. Then colleagues became enemies. Children and wife felt neglected.

Now the reverse gear. There is a lot of piled up pending jobs. But I enjoy reading religious literature, japa, meditation, discussing on phone and in HDF. The work goes out to others. Or jobs get done somehow.

Though Atanu feels that he earns a bad name but slowly, he realises that he is on a pension. Why worry?

God has provisioned for a small bird and He has provisioned for an elephant.

Om Namah Shivaya