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Sahasranama
29 September 2010, 04:27 PM
What does modern bollywood do?

-It gives an impression of Islam and Christianity as religions with great moral values.
-It represents Hinduism as promoting superstition, as something socially backward and full of corruption.
-It praises western materialism as the ultimate goal of life.

On the other if we look at kung fu movies, they convey a sense of respect for the Chinese culture, the morals and spiritual values. Even in comedies. The Chinese don't suck up to the westerners. A popular theme is China fighting against the British. I remember a comedy with Jackie Chan where Jackie kicks the butt of a Christian missionary just for fun, before he even knew the missionary was a villain. No wonder these movies are so popular all over the world. Even the great yoga teacher Sri Krishnamacharya loved to watch kung fu movies.

There are always exceptions of course. Lagaan for example shows some pride for Indian culture. There have also been some television series like Chanakya Pandit and Jhansi ki Rani that have shown some awareness of the great culture and history of India. But the majority of the pulp movies from Bollywood were made to play down the culture, religion and history of India while praising materialism, Christianity and Islam. The problem here is that bollywood is trying to copy hollywood with the purpose of marketing it to the arabs.

Ashvati
29 September 2010, 06:45 PM
What's the real distinction between Bollywood and more religious indian movies, like the slew of mahabharata movies that were popular for a time? Is it a matter of geography/what part of India they were made in, what studios make them, or purely content? The most exposure I've ever had to bollywood is, sadly, Slumdog Millionaire, and even that's not really bollywood. I can see why many Indians were outraged at the movie, too.

Eastern Mind
29 September 2010, 07:04 PM
Vannakkam:

Which is worse, Bollywood, or Hollywood? I am not familiar with Bollywood due to language, but some of the violence and just plain weird stuff coming out of Hollywood makes me wonder. Of course, as mentioned before, there are lots of thought provoking exceptions. I liked Gandhi, the movie, for example. I wonder what people more familiar with his life thought, if they saw it. City of Joy (my wife's choice) was positive to Hindu spirit of family.

Aum Namasivaya

Ashvati
29 September 2010, 07:08 PM
I'm gonna have to go ahead and assume that Hollywood is worse. I don't even wanna talk about some of the stuff coming out of hollywood on this forum. Great things like the movie Gandhi do come out of hollywood, but most of it is so rediculously rajasic (those filled with sex and violence) tamasic (most kids movies nowadays, according to my understanding of tamas to include ignorence/insipidness as well as darkness) or both that I won't even discuss them in detail on this forum.

NayaSurya
29 September 2010, 07:35 PM
It's funny how our view of people or a culture is sometimes shaped by the media we see of them. Such is true with my youthful opinions of the Chinese and their kung fu culture. You see, the first pornographic movie I ever watched was kung fu, Chinese with English subtitles. (I was about ten) The Chinese have some deep dark media out there floating in the ether.

One may think of Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee...but they have just as seedy a side as Hollywood/Bollywood.

I think most cultures have that B rated movie undercurrent out there.

If anyone has seen any of the Scary Movie franchise from the U.S. you can see how wretched the movies get here.

In my home, Bollywood is considered "campy" not reality.

Ashvati
29 September 2010, 07:41 PM
And lets not forget kids movies that go directly to DVD rather than ever being seen in a theater, like the sequals to Air Bud with the talking puppies. Those movies ooze tamas like a drug addict, just a different flavor of it.

NayaSurya
29 September 2010, 08:00 PM
I have never seen those Air Bud movies. In the past decade I have been to the movie theater about twice, one time was to take the children to see the new dragon cartoon and the second was with my children's school to see Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs. Both movies had the same exact plot. Young man who is emotionally distant from father, no mother...and a pretty girl he likes who doesn't even know him. It was basically the same movie with different cartoon drawings.:rolleyes:

When I was a child, my brother was assistant manager of one of the large theaters on base. So I got to see every movie over and over again. Dune, Return of the Jedi, Close Encounters...it was good times. Friday Thirteenth, Halloween...it was bad times.:p

Ashvati
29 September 2010, 08:52 PM
New dragon cartoon? Not ringing any bells lol

saidevo
29 September 2010, 08:59 PM
One Hollywood film that I watched sometime back and enjoyed was the 'Outsourced', a 2006 film that has a positive presentation of Hindu values. Here is my post about the film in HDF:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=30597&postcount=3

In contrast to this film, the 'Slumdog Millionaire' presented a distortedly gross and ugly picture of the people in Indian slums. They might be poor, but not by and large prone to avarice and crime. Generally in today's world, white collar crimes are far more devastating than the crimes by the poor.

Here is another thread, 'Hallywood Ballyhoo' meant for films that subvert history, culture, religion, spirituality, nationality and human values.
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=26112

Members are welcome to contribute to these two threads.

Ashvati
29 September 2010, 09:14 PM
Nice review/summary of Outsourced. I have to agree about the part you said about premarital sex, although to me its the idea of sex outside a relationship altogether, especially the fact that the woman was engaged to someone else at the time.

Kumar_Das
30 September 2010, 02:59 AM
In contrast to this film, the 'Slumdog Millionaire' presented a distortedly gross and ugly picture of the people in Indian slums. They might be poor, but not by and large prone to avarice and crime. Generally in today's world, white collar crimes are far more devastating than the crimes by the poor.


I have thoroughly analyzed that movie. But one thing that I saw positive was the "riots" scene. On the surface it seems as though Danny Boyle tried to potray Hindus negatively as violent and Muslims as innocent. And nothing could be more further from the truth than that.

In the scene the question asked to Jamal by the Indian Millionaire host was a description of Rama, and then Jamal has a flashback. Salim and Jamal run through the alley of houses to escape the oncoming rioters who massacre everyone at their reach. Then as they are running for their lives, they stop abruptly to turn and see ahead a small boy like them dressed as Rama with one hand raised up as though blessing them.

Which actually means the "real God", Rama, protected their lives. The power to save someone from directly at the face of death is something only God has.

Which is of course the whole irony, the boys being Muslims, and therefore naturally not believing Rama to be God.

God who is the Dispenser of Affairs, destined their fate to be as such that their life was being spared.

So when asked the question "what does Rama look like?". Jamal knows of Rama and His appearance because Rama directly saved him.

BryonMorrigan
30 September 2010, 07:37 AM
Nice review/summary of Outsourced. I have to agree about the part you said about premarital sex, although to me its the idea of sex outside a relationship altogether, especially the fact that the woman was engaged to someone else at the time.

Anyone else here watching the new Outsourced TV show? Last week was the first episode, which largely attempted to condense the whole movie into 30 minutes. It's on tonight on NBC.


What does modern bollywood do?

It's taught me that Sikh weddings will always be "crashed" by some dancing Hindu guy, who will somehow turn everything into a party. :D Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2KD-Rz6_R0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2KD-Rz6_R0)

On a more serious note: I recently started a film production company with a few other people. We are planning to purchase a large 30,000 square foot facility in Pennsylvania to create "microbudget" films, predominantly horror. (If you are unfamiliar with the new trend in microbudget horror, take a look at the trailer for the absolutely astounding movie "Monsters," which was created for $15,000: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njeofv4dr9Q Note: All of the military vehicles, monsters, and stunts are CGI created on Adobe After Effects...)

The reason that I bring this up is that one of the scripts that I've been writing is based on the following premise:

After graduating medical school, a young Hindu named Sanjay and his wife Kirati move to a small town in Pennsylvania to start a private practice doctor's office. The town is very quaint and looks like a "Norman Rockwell" painting, and at first everyone seems nice and polite. The couple buys an old Victorian house from the 1800s that is enormous compared to their tiny apartment in New York City, and Sanjay feels that he has grasped the "American Dream."

But then, one evening an old man in a black suit and wide-brimmed hat knocks on their door. He introduces himself as the Reverend Hank Braunbach of Missionary Church of Christ's Dominion, and wants to know which church Sanjay and Kirati plan on attending. He won't take "no" for an answer, and keeps returning, every few days, becoming more insistent each time.

Then things start happening around the house: Windows are broken, a poisonous snake is found in their bedroom, and the utilities keep malfunctioning. It's clear that someone is sneaking around in their house when they're gone, and they suspect that the Reverend has moved on to more "extreme" methods of coercion. They ask for help from the authorities and local townsfolk, but it's clear that they are also frightened when the Reverend's name is mentioned, and they won't help either.

Things get worse and worse for the couple, until the true nature of the Reverend's evil is finally revealed.

Now, the reason that I bring this up here is that I've approached some Hollywood contacts about it, and they weren't interested in it because of the "Hindu" angle. However, I wonder if I made the movie for a small budget, say $30,000 or so, maybe a grass-roots effort among Indian-Americans might propel it into a money-maker. And maybe it might be bought by an Indian distributor for the Bollywood market.

Now, I can't sink any of my own money into it right now, because we're tied up in our more "sure" money-makers to get the film company off on the right foot. But what about this:

Let's say I use KickStarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/), a website that a bunch of small budget filmmakers use to get funding. People who would like to help fund the production go to the website and pledge money in return for something that they will receive when the film is complete.

For example, let's say you donate $20 and you get a "thank you" in the credits. Or maybe for more you get a copy of the DVD, or movie poster, or other "swag." If you donate enough, maybe you could get a "walk on" part in the movie. (Believe it or not, a lot of small budget films are financed like this...Check out KickStarter's website and you'll find a lot of them.)

So the question is: If I decided to do this, would I get enough support from the Hindu community to make the movie?

Sahasranama
30 September 2010, 07:54 AM
I like the story. Christian missionaries are horrifying!

saidevo
30 September 2010, 08:24 AM
namaste BryonMorrigan.

The idea seems to be good in the script, but Hindus might support you only if the Hindu couple don't end up converted or killed. Also, you might invite the wrath of the Church as Dan Brown did. Perhaps you might consider an animation film. I have always wondered if someone would make animation films about Hindu purANas, with due understanding and presentation of their legend and philosophy. I would like horror films so long as I don't see zombies, weird monsters, or werewolves in them. Genuine horror is in real life and psychological situations rather than ghosts and monsters with ghastly forms.

BryonMorrigan
30 September 2010, 08:37 AM
namaste BryonMorrigan.

The idea seems to be good in the script, but Hindus might support you only if the Hindu couple don't end up converted or killed. Also, you might invite the wrath of the Church as Dan Brown did. Perhaps you might consider an animation film. I have always wondered if someone would make animation films about Hindu purANas, with due understanding and presentation of their legend and philosophy. I would like horror films so long as I don't see zombies, weird monsters, or werewolves in them. Genuine horror is in real life and psychological situations rather than ghosts and monsters with ghastly forms.

I don't want to spoil the ending, as the script has a very "Shyamalan-esque" twist in the end. But no, I always make good triumph over evil in my stories.

I am partial to stories with ghosts, monsters, and other ghastly forms though...largely because they can serve a very metaphorical purpose. Plus, I like escapism in film.

I could care less about the wrath of the Church. Controversy sells tickets.

Ashvati
30 September 2010, 11:11 AM
I have thoroughly analyzed that movie. But one thing that I saw positive was the "riots" scene. On the surface it seems as though Danny Boyle tried to potray Hindus negatively as violent and Muslims as innocent. And nothing could be more further from the truth than that.

In the scene the question asked to Jamal by the Indian Millionaire host was a description of Rama, and then Jamal has a flashback. Salim and Jamal run through the alley of houses to escape the oncoming rioters who massacre everyone at their reach. Then as they are running for their lives, they stop abruptly to turn and see ahead a small boy like them dressed as Rama with one hand raised up as though blessing them.

Which actually means the "real God", Rama, protected their lives. The power to save someone from directly at the face of death is something only God has.

Which is of course the whole irony, the boys being Muslims, and therefore naturally not believing Rama to be God.

God who is the Dispenser of Affairs, destined their fate to be as such that their life was being spared.

So when asked the question "what does Rama look like?". Jamal knows of Rama and His appearance because Rama directly saved him.

When I saw the movie, I was under the impression that they were born hindu but Salim had later converted to islam because of his boss, and that the boy dressed as Rama was as scared of the rioters attacking (who I had thought at least were muslim). Maybe I'm wrong?

NayaSurya
30 September 2010, 11:37 AM
This is a good example of one person seeing it one way and another seeing it differently. Though perhaps the movie was changed for overseas audiences?

Yes, I think most Americans here thought it was an anti muslim message. The woman being forced into the abusive relationship with muslim and the bad brother who had gotten messed up with islamic gang.

The hero seemed Hindu.

NayaSurya
30 September 2010, 11:42 AM
I don't want to spoil the ending, as the script has a very "Shyamalan-esque" twist in the end. But no, I always make good triumph over evil in my stories.

I am partial to stories with ghosts, monsters, and other ghastly forms though...largely because they can serve a very metaphorical purpose. Plus, I like escapism in film.

I could care less about the wrath of the Church. Controversy sells tickets.


I think it sounds wonderful. I have neighbors that were that creepy when we first moved in....came to the door knocking with a food basket that was litered with xtian propaganda.

Put a creepy moldy welcome basket into the movie and have it piled with those idiotic Chick Tracts...:rolleyes:

TatTvamAsi
12 October 2010, 03:06 AM
On a more serious note: I recently started a film production company with a few other people. We are planning to purchase a large 30,000 square foot facility in Pennsylvania to create "microbudget" films, predominantly horror. (If you are unfamiliar with the new trend in microbudget horror, take a look at the trailer for the absolutely astounding movie "Monsters," which was created for $15,000: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njeofv4dr9Q Note: All of the military vehicles, monsters, and stunts are CGI created on Adobe After Effects...)

The reason that I bring this up is that one of the scripts that I've been writing is based on the following premise:

After graduating medical school, a young Hindu named Sanjay and his wife Kirati move to a small town in Pennsylvania to start a private practice doctor's office. The town is very quaint and looks like a "Norman Rockwell" painting, and at first everyone seems nice and polite. The couple buys an old Victorian house from the 1800s that is enormous compared to their tiny apartment in New York City, and Sanjay feels that he has grasped the "American Dream."

But then, one evening an old man in a black suit and wide-brimmed hat knocks on their door. He introduces himself as the Reverend Hank Braunbach of Missionary Church of Christ's Dominion, and wants to know which church Sanjay and Kirati plan on attending. He won't take "no" for an answer, and keeps returning, every few days, becoming more insistent each time.

Then things start happening around the house: Windows are broken, a poisonous snake is found in their bedroom, and the utilities keep malfunctioning. It's clear that someone is sneaking around in their house when they're gone, and they suspect that the Reverend has moved on to more "extreme" methods of coercion. They ask for help from the authorities and local townsfolk, but it's clear that they are also frightened when the Reverend's name is mentioned, and they won't help either.

Things get worse and worse for the couple, until the true nature of the Reverend's evil is finally revealed.

Now, the reason that I bring this up here is that I've approached some Hollywood contacts about it, and they weren't interested in it because of the "Hindu" angle. However, I wonder if I made the movie for a small budget, say $30,000 or so, maybe a grass-roots effort among Indian-Americans might propel it into a money-maker. And maybe it might be bought by an Indian distributor for the Bollywood market.

Now, I can't sink any of my own money into it right now, because we're tied up in our more "sure" money-makers to get the film company off on the right foot. But what about this:

Let's say I use KickStarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/), a website that a bunch of small budget filmmakers use to get funding. People who would like to help fund the production go to the website and pledge money in return for something that they will receive when the film is complete.

For example, let's say you donate $20 and you get a "thank you" in the credits. Or maybe for more you get a copy of the DVD, or movie poster, or other "swag." If you donate enough, maybe you could get a "walk on" part in the movie. (Believe it or not, a lot of small budget films are financed like this...Check out KickStarter's website and you'll find a lot of them.)

So the question is: If I decided to do this, would I get enough support from the Hindu community to make the movie?

That is awesome!

Hah! I love the theme. Definitely will keep an eye/ear out for this when it is released.

TatTvamAsi
12 October 2010, 03:12 AM
Regarding "Bollywood", there are a lot more (and far better) movies all over India. Bollywood just refers to "Hindi" movies which pander to muslim/christian idiots.

Aishwarya Rai is the only reason I would even consider watching a Bollywood movie.

Of course, now with Endhiran out, there is no need for that either! :D

Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoPv-Ss6YbI

She was absolutely gorgeous in it and of course, the most popular actor in India, Rajinikanth, made it hilarious and totally worth the $30 ticket! LOL! And, as with all Rajini movies, there is always a philosophical touch to it. The ending really brought that out.

Believer
20 October 2010, 02:55 AM
Bollywood just refers to "Hindi" movies which pander to muslim/christian idiots.

Aishwarya Rai is the only reason I would even consider watching a Bollywood movie.

Hmmmm....
Would you have had a different opinion of Ash if she had married Salman, which she came very close to, and become Aaisha Khan? ;)
-

TatTvamAsi
23 October 2010, 04:10 PM
Hmmmm....
Would you have had a different opinion of Ash if she had married Salman, which she came very close to, and become Aaisha Khan? ;)
-

Good point.. yes, I definitely would NOT watch her movies if she had married that muslim pariah.

The funny thing is, Indira Gandhi was a Brahmin and she married a Parsi. Sharmila Tagore was also a Brahmin and she married a sullah. Pretty sad...

kahanam
30 November 2010, 01:18 AM
Regarding "Bollywood", there are a lot more (and far better) movies all over India. Bollywood just refers to "Hindi" movies which pander to muslim/christian idiots.

Aishwarya Rai is the only reason I would even consider watching a Bollywood movie.

Of course, now with Endhiran out, there is no need for that either! :D

Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoPv-Ss6YbI

She was absolutely gorgeous in it and of course, the most popular actor in India, Rajinikanth, made it hilarious and totally worth the $30 ticket! LOL! And, as with all Rajini movies, there is always a philosophical touch to it. The ending really brought that out.

The Enthiran or The Robot movie has the script written by its efficient director, Shankar, known for his fast, tight narration. That is what determines the success of all Shankar movies. Tha cast is also important and he puts the correct people to suit the roles, in this movie Rajinikant and Aishwarya Rai. The stories always have idealism and philosophical overtones to them!:) :) :)

saidevo
30 November 2010, 06:28 AM
I watch Tamizh films very rarely in recent years, and two of the lousiest films I ever watched were 'DashAvatAram' and 'Enthiran'. If this man KH tries to garner all the popularity with ten roles in the same film, this other man RK thinks he does one better by garnering all the roles! Both the films have scenes that are defamatory of Hinduism: when RK the robot poses with many hands with modern weapons in them, the film shows men and women who are Amman evotees bowing to this hideous figure in awe. In the other film, the utsava-vigraha of PerumAL (ViShNu) is thrown like a rugby ball, and is shown to land even in garbage and mud.

It is height of idiocy and sycophancy that the Tamizh film fans celebrate these two celebrities as matinee idols. While it is not uncommon that the make-beleive of cinematic technology descends to idiotic levels in Hollywood films, with Bollywood and Kollywood, idiocy is the only level that the technology serves to display with the blind belief that the film fans would gobble up whatever is shown.

saidevo
30 November 2010, 06:46 AM
namaste TTA.


Aishwarya Rai is the only reason I would even consider watching a Bollywood movie.


If you want to watch AR playing a cultured desi role, check the Hollywood film 'Bride and Prejudice', which was acclaimed as a very good Bollywood adaptation of the famous novel of Jane Austen 'Pride and Prejudice'.* Martin Henderson too gives a good performance as the bachelor boy who pines for AR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_and_Prejudice
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361411/

Other good Hollywood desi films could be:
American Desi (2001)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Desi
--Hindu life in a US college campus--good.

Monsoon Wedding (2001)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsoon_Wedding
--award-winning, starring Naseeruddin Shah

I enjoyed watching the above two films. The others I might get a chance to watch are:

Bend It Like Beckham (2002)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_It_Like_Beckham
--seems to have won a number of awards.

Green Card Fever (2003)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Card_Fever
--nominated as the best political film.

My Son the Fanatic (1997)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Son_the_Fanatic_(film)
--won nominations and prizes

Praying with Anger (1992)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praying_with_Anger
--directional debut of M.Night Shyamalan

Flavours (2004)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavors_(2004_film)
--scores well in IMDB

Mississippi Masala (1991)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Masala
--Denzel Washington in an Indian film.

Notes:
It is common in Jane Austen novels to see the very first paragraph giving a summary of the theme of the novel. For example, P&P begins with these lines:

"IT is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife."

Bertie Wooster, the house-master of Jeeves, in the Wodehouse novels is an exception though. He is a single man in possession of wealth who doesn't want to get married.