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bp789
09 October 2010, 12:05 PM
Okay sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, and I want to make a disclaimer this is not about all convert Hindus, but only SOME (A FEW) that I have noticed.

This mostly applies to non-Indian Hindus, but something I noticed about a few of them is that they tend to disregard any positive aspects of their own culture and declare that Indian culture is better.

I mean some of them say that "our western culture is horrible it's all about sex and money and materialism. Indian culture is more refined, spiritual, and wonderful." This is something that bugs me about a few converts. They try to make their birth countries and culture seem horrible and only praise India and Indian culture.

It's as if they are ashamed to be from a western culture. I'll repeat again this only about a few people I have noticed, but I don't see why they do this. I get that western culture has its problems, but so does Indian culture. And I also get that Indian culture has a lot of positive aspects, but so does western culture.

Adhvagat
09 October 2010, 01:14 PM
Hello BP...

Well, I may be guilty of that. Ashamed of my culture? Well... Why should I be proud of?

It's also about getting into contact with spirituality and getting frustated with materialism.

Since India practices Sanatana Dharma a lot more than the western countries it's no surprise someone getting to know spirituality and the Vedas to be delighted by it.

But I get your point, we should discern and try to see the best in our culture as well... But what exactly?

Ashvati
09 October 2010, 01:50 PM
I'll admit I'm guilty of this too. Logically though, I have to agree with PI for the most part.

Onkara
10 October 2010, 04:45 AM
This is indeed an issue. Likewise being over proud of one's identity is a trap which can lead to misery :)

The point, in my opinion, is to overcome our minds tendency to see fault in others and oneself, based on comparisons and duality. The greatest liberation and value in life comes when we can tune in to the all encompassing divine. Only then can thy know theyself and love others as ourselves.

eriko
10 October 2010, 08:40 AM
I don't see anything wrong in this. Even though I am an Indian Hindu by birth, and have no idea how people convert to our faith.

But then one needs to be devoted to India to be a Hindu, and this I feel is one of the reason why converting is so difficult. So when people devote to one thing, they aren't able to concentrate on the other.

If they would have been concentrating on their own culture, I don't think they would have been able to convert. I hope I haven't hurt anyone, but then I don't really know anything about converting.

But how does anybody do it, you know accepting a culture of some other country? Just curious.

viprava
10 October 2010, 09:31 AM
Hi All,

I had this question for some time why people convert from one religion to others, however the answer for why some convert to hindus is more easy than other opposite.

To me it looks very straight, the reason being, the practice that in India is followed based on the nature and not based on experience of enlighten ones. Every time we do get some good enlighten beings reminding us about the nature and truth and we take it up depending on the time we are.

Incase of hindu dharma it is not new, it is oldest practice that was followed across the world. In Europe, In America, In egypt etc...The old culture were based on natural science and every aspect dealt with it. In India it has exploded to large extent and people preferred it as it is aligned to nature. Hence it seems quite ok, if people want to switch to oldest religion which came into existence after long very long discussion and finally taking it up as standard practices.

BryonMorrigan
10 October 2010, 09:38 AM
But how does anybody do it, you know accepting a culture of some other country? Just curious.

I know that as an American...we take it for granted. Plenty of people come to our country and change their cultural identities to fit America...and many Americans go abroad and change to fit other countries. Since our American culture is only a little over 200 years old...and full of **** like slavery, colonialism, genocide, and pointless wars...it's not surprising that many of us adopt the cultures of other peoples. (And yes, I know we do have many other things to be proud of...I'm just explaining why our situation is very different from say, someone born in India, or Ireland, or Italy, as just a few examples.)

But if you think about it...a lot of modern Western culture is tied to Christianity. If you don't let go of those issues...it's like you are continuing to cling to aspects of your former religion.

I don't think that one necessarily needs to wear traditional Indian clothes every day, start talking with an Indian accent, and hoist a saffron flag out in front of your house...but I think at least a certain veneration for Indian culture is necessary to truly adopt Sanatana Dharma as your religion.

But this topic makes me think of this sketch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM9__IGZ9Ow

sanjaya
10 October 2010, 11:46 AM
Okay sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, and I want to make a disclaimer this is not about all convert Hindus, but only SOME (A FEW) that I have noticed.

This mostly applies to non-Indian Hindus, but something I noticed about a few of them is that they tend to disregard any positive aspects of their own culture and declare that Indian culture is better.

I mean some of them say that "our western culture is horrible it's all about sex and money and materialism. Indian culture is more refined, spiritual, and wonderful." This is something that bugs me about a few converts. They try to make their birth countries and culture seem horrible and only praise India and Indian culture.

It's as if they are ashamed to be from a western culture. I'll repeat again this only about a few people I have noticed, but I don't see why they do this. I get that western culture has its problems, but so does Indian culture. And I also get that Indian culture has a lot of positive aspects, but so does western culture.

Yeah, I've noticed the same thing. As Eriko already alluded, Hinduism is inextricably bound to Indian culture, and anyone who is a Hindu is going to have some fondness, dare I say attachment, to Indian culture. Personally I prefer Indian culture over Western culture, but that's because I'm Indian. It's important to note that India is by no means a perfect heavenly paradise of Dharma. There are some things that are wrong with Indian culture too. One only needs to visit India and see the poor sanitation, government corruption, and general incompetence in regards to how to run a country. Yes, Indian culture is better when it comes to spirituality and family values. But it's worse in terms of India's seeming inability to maintain its infrastructure. We aren't perfect by any means. So I think there's no need for Westerners to hate their own culture in order to embrace India. Those of us Indians who live in the West are doing basically the same thing in reverse.

Onkara
10 October 2010, 12:08 PM
It's important to note that India is by no means a perfect heavenly paradise of Dharma. There are some things that are wrong with Indian culture too. One only needs to visit India and see the poor sanitation, government corruption, and general incompetence in regards to how to run a country. Yes, Indian culture is better when it comes to spirituality and family values. But it's worse in terms of India's seeming inability to maintain its infrastructure. We aren't perfect by any means. So I think there's no need for Westerners to hate their own culture in order to embrace India. Those of us Indians who live in the West are doing basically the same thing in reverse.

Hello Sanjaya
I very much agree. :) My experience is that one naturally becomes inquisitive of culture and history as one's understanding grows. Is seems that another culture is always better. I have not always lived in the country of my birth, and over the years I became more in tune with a country's problems despite having once seen it as a perfect place for all to live.

Beyond an open mind, I often ask myself if there is any need to adopt another culture to understand it or even to look down on one's own? I have no doubt that of the value of the Upanishads, but the matter still remains that we are who we are and live where we live, so why not go along with that? I ask myself :)

NetiNeti
10 October 2010, 02:48 PM
I'm American, I dress like an American and eat mostly Italian (my roots) food that has been modified for the pure vegetarian diet. I consider India a spiritual homeland but beyond that I don't adopt any Indian cultural aspects beyond those that are present in temple or while visiting an Indian Hindu household.

When I see some converts become "Ultra-Indian" the second the find their new faith, I see a form of attachment. I feel as though they may be rebelling against their culture and latching on to something that is less mainstream. You see it a lot in ISKCON temples where the western devotees really make a show of how "Indian" they are.

I agree that Hinduism is very connected to Indian culture but I do not feel it must be in order for one to follow the Dharma. An appreciation of Indian culture is nice because most of a converts brethren will be Indian, but adopting the culture as your own is not needed. If one found the Dharma and followed it, they would be a Hindu even if they never heard of India.

As Hinduism evolves, it will find itself encompassing a wider variety of Cultures. Nepal and Bali are huge Hindu countries. So too is America to some extent. When people find out I am Hindu they are shocked because I am very western. Ramakrishna never instructed me to become Indian, just to find God and love him. It is my belief that the more one can remove the influences of any culture, the closer they come to ultimate truth and full understanding of Brahma.

Adhvagat
10 October 2010, 04:17 PM
I don't see anything wrong in this. Even though I am an Indian Hindu by birth, and have no idea how people convert to our faith.

But then one needs to be devoted to India to be a Hindu, and this I feel is one of the reason why converting is so difficult. So when people devote to one thing, they aren't able to concentrate on the other.

If they would have been concentrating on their own culture, I don't think they would have been able to convert. I hope I haven't hurt anyone, but then I don't really know anything about converting.

But how does anybody do it, you know accepting a culture of some other country? Just curious.

Well, just imagine you're ignorant about everything spiritual you know and instead materialism is your main mental focus.

Imagine you live in a country where material possession is valued and kids from very young age are already bragging about money, cars, their houses, brand new video games and what not.

And then kids have early access to sexual topics, kids bring Playboy magazines to school (that's in mine generation, now kids are probably doing much worse).

Spirituality is secondary, it's like some very personal choice that is cute to practice and you should respect the others, respect meaning you can't enter a philosophical debate, well, probably both parties wouldn't have philosophical content to debate anyway.

Then kids grow up and everything begins to be more and more about sex. Boys are already thinking about working out at 12, girls are starving to be thin at 12.

At 18 alcohol is now free, it's all about getting drunk in the weekend and having sex. Social life is all about this, it's pathetic.

Then you need to have a good job to fund all these materialistic pleasures, they are also a good way to get away from the anxiety this obligation to get a good job creates and it's a vicious circle. Pleasure is inebriation!

It's quite psychologically frustating for anyone with spiritual aspirations and it's definitely not a society I'd like to raise kids in.

Sahasranama
10 October 2010, 04:55 PM
Do you think India is any better?

Adhvagat
10 October 2010, 05:18 PM
Do you think India is any better?

At least in India I'd be in contact with more practitioners of Sanatana Dharma and also be closer to the holy places.

So, yes.

In some terms, better indeed.

Kumar_Das
10 October 2010, 05:38 PM
I dont think so. I dont think Western Hindus become Ultra-Indian.

I see it clearly that the aspects of India that Western Hindus embrace tend to be strongly tied with the religion itself, Sanatana Dharma.

India in general has a culture that is strongly intertwined with morals, ethics and philosophy-religion.

So that makes it all the more obvious.

Firstly India has no single culture. As Indians themselves percieve it, regionally the cultural differences are almost like that between different unrelated countries (Tamil vs Punjabi, Bengali vs Kashmiri)

So one cannot speak of an "Indian" culture that Westerners adopt.

A Canadian Hindu convert who goes to Tamil temples might be more familiar with Tamils. Whereas an East African Hindu convert might be more familiar with Gujaratis. But such Indian Hindus themselves from those parts of the world, dont

Many people who have a sense of appreciation for Indian, see the beauty of India in these respects. Even many staunch anti-Indians too when they start observing this aspect of all things Indian, start to fall for the mundane simplicity and humbleness.

This is the part of Indian culture that appeals to Westerners.

They are returning to what is fundamentally organic and comfortable. Less booze, $ex, materialism etc and more focus on contemplation/meditation/breathe control/yoga etc

They are not losing themselves in the process, rather embracing what is theirs and building themselves up.

Some ignorant people, including Western Buddhists themselves, think they are being "oriental" when they embrace Buddhism, when infact Buddhism is anything but "oriental". In South East Asia the Buddhist temples, mantras, dressing and religious traditions and rituals are strongly Indic and stand out in terms of what one would consider to be authentically Oriental. Even the Zen Buddhism shows how much of India has been imported into Japan.

The ultimate goal most converts to Hinduism aim for is to become Brahmacharya or Sadhu. And that lifestyle as seemingly Indian as it may be, is essentially tailored for that very lifestyle of renunciation.

Furthermore if we are to speak of people converting to a specific religion abandoning much of their native culture, heritage, customs and practices and totally adopting with that of the region it is most associated with.

Then its gotta to be the Muslim converts, becoming almost entirely Arab, if they possibly could they would change their race as well.

bp789
10 October 2010, 05:38 PM
Yeah, obviously there has to be some respect for Indian culture as that is where Hinduism originated.


At least in India I'd be in contact with more practitioners of Sanatana Dharma and also be closer to the holy places.

So, yes.

In some terms, better indeed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read on the internet that Brazilians are becoming very interested in Indian culture and spirituality, and that many people do yoga and are vegetarian, etc. Is it really that difficult to be Hindu in Brazil?

Adhvagat
10 October 2010, 05:48 PM
Yeah, obviously there has to be some respect for Indian culture as that is where Hinduism originated.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read on the internet that Brazilians are becoming very interested in Indian culture and spirituality, and that many people do yoga and are vegetarian, etc. Is it really that difficult to be Hindu in Brazil?

My father introduced Yoga as an optional subject in the physical education course of the federal university of my state (Rio de Janeiro).

He was quite surprised with the people's interest in it.

If it's easy to be a Hindu? Well... I wouldn't say it's difficult, there are rural ISKCON communities and projects that are quite nice. I got to know Sanatana Dharma in a Krishna-Balaram temple in a rural community 2 hours from my house called Ashram Vrajabhumi.

I don't go too much to the temple in my city though, but a lot has improved over the years. There's free Yoga classes at sunday, there's a nice vegetarian restaurant there.

The frustation that I expressed at my above text is more at social life as a whole, but I think I can't really run away from this anywhere (so anyone reading it take it with a grain of salt).

But my recent (since 2003) interest in the Vedas makes me wanna visit India and see how it all happens in there. I need to experience it.

TatTvamAsi
11 October 2010, 04:12 AM
Indian culture is better.



Wow! Truer words were never spoken!

I'm still waiting to see, except Bryon in this forum, a westerner admit what is stated above.

We have westerners like the self-anointed 'acharya' Frank Morales who thinks he is going to save Hinduism from the Hindus. LOL...

TatTvamAsi
11 October 2010, 04:13 AM
My father introduced Yoga as an optional subject in the physical education course of the federal university of my state (Rio de Janeiro).

He was quite surprised with the people's interest in it.

If it's easy to be a Hindu? Well... I wouldn't say it's difficult, there are rural ISKCON communities and projects that are quite nice. I got to know Sanatana Dharma in a Krishna-Balaram temple in a rural community 2 hours from my house called Ashram Vrajabhumi.

I don't go too much to the temple in my city though, but a lot has improved over the years. There's free Yoga classes at sunday, there's a nice vegetarian restaurant there.

The frustation that I expressed at my above text is more at social life as a whole, but I think I can't really run away from this anywhere (so anyone reading it take it with a grain of salt).

But my recent (since 2003) interest in the Vedas makes me wanna visit India and see how it all happens in there. I need to experience it.

Off topic, but just noticed you're from Brazil! I love Formula One.. do you watch it? I'm a great fan of the legend Ayrton Senna and of course, I like Massa too. So many great Brazilian F1 drivers. Indians (Karun Chandhok/Narain Karthikeyan) suck at driving F1.. too many cows on the road! LOL.. :D

ScottMalaysia
11 October 2010, 05:55 AM
This mostly applies to non-Indian Hindus, but something I noticed about a few of them is that they tend to disregard any positive aspects of their own culture and declare that Indian culture is better.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I dress in traditional Indian clothes (dhoti and kurta) and apply tilak when I go to a temple. But this is mainly to communicate the fact that I am a member of the Hindu religion. It is for the same reason that Indian Muslim men wear white kufi hats - so that everyone will recognise them as Muslims and not Hindus.


I mean some of them say that "our western culture is horrible it's all about sex and money and materialism. Indian culture is more refined, spiritual, and wonderful." This is something that bugs me about a few converts. They try to make their birth countries and culture seem horrible and only praise India and Indian culture.

Quite a few Indian people (especially in the big cities) are becoming more Westernised. Many Hindus don't know much about their religion these days. You will find materialistic Indians and promiscuous Indians. It's just not as widespread over there. Two or even one hundred years ago you would have found Western culture to be more spiritual because Christianity played a bigger part in most Westerners' lives.

I personally think that there are good aspects to both cultures. I like Indian culture's emphasis on spirituality, tolerance and respect, but I disagree with the notion that one's parents are to be obeyed unconditionally and that they have the right to choose one's marriage partner. Parents are human too and just as prone to make mistakes as anyone else. If they do something wrong to their children, they should apologise as to err is human. While I think it is good to honour and respect one's parents, I don't think that you should blindly do everything they say just because they are your parents. You have your own free will to examine the situation and make up your own mind.

I dislike the materialism that is prevalent in secular Western culture. People who are religious are seen as not quite part of the mainstream. More emphasis is placed on having lots of money, a big house, a flash car etc. However, a Toyota will get you from A to B just as fast as a BMW will (the speed limit is the same regardless of what car you're driving). It all boils down to arrogance and pride. "Look at me! I'm better than you because I drive a BMW!". Whereas traditional Indian values encourage one to be "the servant of the servant of the servants of God". Sathya Sai Baba said "Love all, serve all".

So I think there are good points and bad points about both cultures. Therefore, we should seek God first and foremost in our lives and center our lives around Him.

yajvan
11 October 2010, 08:55 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


In the West , that is America and not Europe, it is a young country. It is only 230 years young. It's culture is fleeting. It , at times, is based upon a fad, a inspiration from Hollywood, etc.

Yet America's cultural roots go back to religious freedom, to fairness in taxation, to discovery and pioneering. These roots are 'revolutionary' in nature - rajas, dynamism. So, when many view
an ancient culture based upon sanātana dharma , it gives one a rudder to one's ship that is on the violent sea ( life).
This , IMHO, is why some cling reverently to the cultures of the East and may just thumb their noses at their current culture, yet they miss the fabric of value that the West brings.

This world is filled with different values - some good and others not so much. I look to those roots that gain favor with the support of nature that help guide the ship. America has many good things so I take the best I can from this culture I live in. Yet it is wise for me to integrate the highest values from other locations and hence my arrival with sanātana dharma.

The technique as I see it is integrate the good ( dharma) reject the not so good ( adharma) and advance one's sādhana. For some this may not be robust enough, yet for me in this stage of life, it fits well.


http://www.therebelution.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/sf_ship_ocean.jpg







praṇām

NayaSurya
13 October 2010, 04:27 PM
America is like a kindergarten class at naptime.

Do you remember this moment?

All the children on those tiny colored mats on the floor napping and the teachers tip toe around trying to avoid stepping on them?

I remember it very well.

We live amongst the sleeping.

Recently my daughter had a classmate in school tell her Jesus was the one true god.

My daughter says..."No no Shiva is God!"

So the teacher comes and asks her again. "Aria, who is God?"

"Beloved Shiva is God." Was Aria's reply.

The whole class hushes to hear this...and the moment made me shine with joy. My children have love for Beloved Shiva as any child being raised a world away.

But to the sleeping, she caused much upset. A week later she was asked this question again and she again replied the same. Except this time she explained Beloved Shakti too.

The teacher replied to the other teacher she had brought to hear..."See!"

So the sleepers have been disturbed by my littlest daughter...and I will probably get a phone call about this...but I am proud, so very proud.

America does have good things, but all of them bundled in a heap would not be enough to equall living in a place where the Gita is read aloud.

Where people meet in parks not to shoot up drugs...but to actually learn about Beloved. Perhaps such a place exists here, I do not know.

For now, we do our best to allow the ones peacefully sleeping to continue to sleep, all the while we continue to tip toe around them.

You see them at the store, in the park...and you remember what it was like to be so blissfully unaware. When your biggest problem was buying a newer flashy car...or taking the vacation to Cancun.

It makes our family feel like aliens.

After several years of struggling with this very culture/identity crisis, I have decided that bodies have culture. Since I am more than this decaying flesh I drag around covering the divine portion of Beloved I truly am...I really am not a culture at all. I have no need to pick up a new culture to replace the one I am shedding. Crisis resolved.:p

Eastern Mind
13 October 2010, 05:45 PM
Vannakkam all: I think a lot of the noticeable differences can be between the western side of the planet and India is seen in the percentage of practitioners. India is predominantly Hindu. You don't have to look for it at all. It permeates: in the eyes of the people, in the mundane tasks like driving, shopping, language, in the smiles, the food, the clothing. You have to look hard for a place where there is no Hinduism close by. In the west it is the opposite. You have to look hard (well, not that hard in urban areas now) to find it. The westy is permeated by secularism, non religion, with a bit of Christianity thrown in. There is good and bad in both.

Aum Namasivaya

Forrest
13 October 2010, 09:33 PM
Dear NayaSurya,

Regarding your last post I can see why you would be upset. But see the thing is, residing in America, and being born in America. I think your example is really irrelevant. Imagine being born in an American home and being told that Jesus is the one and only god anytime spirituality came up. You must excuse a class of CHILDREN and their teacher (who most likely wouldn't want to receive any e-mails from upset parents about agreeing with your daughters beliefs when she couldn't do so for any of the others.) I'm assuming where you live is mostly Christan, Mormon, ECT. The teacher probably didn't want to start a class argument about religion regarding the fact that their minds are so small they must nap once a day to function.

I am American and am deeply offended that you would over generalize a whole country due to one incidence that happened in your child's elementary school. I am, right now, seeking out Hinduism. Which proves your theory wrong.

Perhaps if you would like less of a backlash in all walks of life, you should probably stay away from remarks that are offensive and out of the blue such as "America is like a kindergarten class at naptime" OR "All the children on those tiny colored mats on the floor napping and the teachers tip toe around trying to avoid stepping on them."

Sincerely,
Forrest

Maya3
29 October 2010, 09:58 AM
I don't try to be Indian at all.
God is not Indian. God is everything.

I'm Swedish living in the US, I celebrate Swedish holidays, Christmas and Midsummer etc.
Frankly I would not embrace a religion that required that I gave up my own culture.

One of the things that drew me to Hinduism was it's understanding that you can reach God however you want, it's your CONNECTION that counts, not the method.
It's to me a much more enlightened view than saying that you HAVE to do THIS for God to hear you.

My Ashram celebrates both Hindu and and other holidays, we are happy that life has so much to offer, so much to celebrate.

Maya

Eastern Mind
29 October 2010, 10:24 AM
Frankly I would not embrace a religion that required that I gave up my own culture.


Vannakkam: Certainly there is no requirement. Those that harshly impose requirements are quite cultish and not the norm. Having said that, I have found that once you start in Hinduism, much of the culture rubs off. For example: You attend a temple, they serve prasadam, and it is Indian food. You discover you like it, and soon you go buy yourself a cookbook, and learn to cook. You notice people dressing modestly, you dress modestly, etc.

We also have the freedom to go as far as we want into the culture. Some would at first call me extreme for changing my name, for example. But then when I explain that it was entirely on my own volition, nobody was pointing a gun at me, or holding anything back because I wouldn't, then its cool.

So over time part of your own culture, (or non-culture in some places of the west) just fades. I came from a beer-drinking, meat-gorging, cowboy redneck cursing community, and frankly it is not missed.

Only when you come from a strongly religious background is there conflict, and if you want to move on less confused, you have to make a conscious effort to drop some of the previous beliefs.

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
29 October 2010, 11:50 AM
Vannakkam: Certainly there is no requirement. Those that harshly impose requirements are quite cultish and not the norm. Having said that, I have found that once you start in Hinduism, much of the culture rubs off. For example: You attend a temple, they serve prasadam, and it is Indian food. You discover you like it, and soon you go buy yourself a cookbook, and learn to cook. You notice people dressing modestly, you dress modestly, etc.

We also have the freedom to go as far as we want into the culture. Some would at first call me extreme for changing my name, for example. But then when I explain that it was entirely on my own volition, nobody was pointing a gun at me, or holding anything back because I wouldn't, then its cool.

So over time part of your own culture, (or non-culture in some places of the west) just fades. I came from a beer-drinking, meat-gorging, cowboy redneck cursing community, and frankly it is not missed.

Only when you come from a strongly religious background is there conflict, and if you want to move on less confused, you have to make a conscious effort to drop some of the precious beliefs.

Aum Namasivaya

:)

That is some change from redneck cursing to Hindu :)
Good for you!

I haven't changed that much, I was vegetarian already since I was a teenager and my family is not religious at all.
I already loved spicy Indian food. Never liked Swedish food or meat.
I could never eat the meat when I was a kid, it grew in my mouth, and Sweden is a meat/fish/potato country! The flavors are very bland not like flavorful Indian food, which I prefer.
Though we have AMAZING pastries and cakes. Yum!!

A lot of people say that I must have been Hindu in a past life, because I just floated right in without much change at all.
The only real difference for me is really the Indian rituals, such as Puja's that was completely new.

Maya

Eastern Mind
29 October 2010, 03:37 PM
:)

That is some change from redneck cursing to Hindu :)



Vannakkam Maya: Just to clarify, I wasn't a redneck curser, just born into the environment where it was commonplace. Much like you, I learned at a young age that this place wasn't for me. When they butchered, I hid up at the house with my mother. Hunting grossed me out, yet there I was, born into it. So at independence age 18 or so, I got out. Vegetarianism was easy, and I had no religious indoctrination at all other than my father's musings about the bible thumpers out the road and my mother's leanings towards being a full blown nature worshiper. Hinduism seemed a natural flow so much that it has been clear it was past lifetime seeds sprouting all over again.

Aum Namasivaya

BryonMorrigan
29 October 2010, 04:06 PM
Never liked Swedish food or meat.

Let's be honest: NOBODY likes Swedish food or meat... (LOL.) ;)

Maya3
29 October 2010, 04:25 PM
EM,
That's good to know. How is it for you now when you go back to visit?

Bryan, a lot of people like Swedish food, there are many Swedish restaurants that are very popular in the US.

Maya

Eastern Mind
29 October 2010, 05:09 PM
EM,
That's good to know. How is it for you now when you go back to visit?

Maya

Vannakkam Maya: I know for many people it can be quite the challenge when loved ones don't accept the new you. There can be hard feeling over extended periods of time. Right now its pretty good. Both my parents are deceased. I stopped for coffee at my brother's on the way home from a long driving trip. We talk occasionally, but these days we're not close. I doubt if it had much to do with religion at all. More to do with geography (long physical distances and lack of time and money) and each doing their own thing to raise a family. I have 4 siblings. Two call me by my Hindu name of 30 years and the other two just can't. Interestingly, they were both the ones with learning disabilities growing up.

How about you? Is your family okay with the ashram/Hindu stuff?

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
29 October 2010, 06:58 PM
Vannakam, (to be honest I have never heard this greeting before, what does it mean?)

My friends and family are very open to it, I have not had any negative reactions from them at all.
I'm honestly a little surprised, especially the reaction from a VERY, very conservative and Catholic sister in law, it didn't seem to face her too much. (Though we have never had a face to face talk about it, as we see each other very little. She actually assumed that I was either Christian or Atheist until very recently. We'll see if she says something when I see her)
My other sister in law who is Jewish, has been with me to the Ashram, she loved the chanting, but didn't like our photos of our guru.

My husband isn't Hindu but he does Puja's with me and he always likes what I tell him about Hinduism.

My parents have become quite the Ganesha devotees, we call each other and ask to leave him sweets if we need prayer. It's sweet, because they have never been religious at all.

It may help my family deal with this difference by the fact that I'm not very conservative with anything other than being vegetarian. At my ashram we are very open and artistic so there is no requirements for specific clothing or needs to follow specific rituals. (well maybe a few small ones) It's very devoted and spiritual but unusually free actually as ashrams go. Our guru was a scientist and wanted a place is like a university of spirituality both East/West but nonsectarian.
My temple is more traditional. It's Bhakti/Smarta and amazing, though I'm more of a Jnana person and Advaita.
It's great to have both though. The Ashram is paradise on earth, it really is!
And I'm just getting to know the temple and it's seems lovely

Wow, I'm writing up a storm here. It's really nice to get to know you.

Om Namah Shivaya

Maya

Eastern Mind
29 October 2010, 08:07 PM
Vannakam, (to be honest I have never heard this greeting before, what does it mean?)



Tamil version of namaste. My version of SD is quite South Indian Saiva complemented with Hindu Solidarity. Interesting about your parents. I'm no Vedantist, only at some higher reality way that I am not at yet. More focussed on what's termed karma yoga, and bhakti. Working on the more mundane things to get that straight before moving upwards. The Yamas intrigue and motivate me.

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
29 October 2010, 08:45 PM
Tamil version of namaste. My version of SD is quite South Indian Saiva complemented with Hindu Solidarity. Interesting about your parents. I'm no Vedantist, only at some higher reality way that I am not at yet. More focussed on what's termed karma yoga, and bhakti. Working on the more mundane things to get that straight before moving upwards. The Yamas intrigue and motivate me.

Aum Namasivaya

Thank you, it's always good to learn something new.

Bhakti and Karma yoga is great too, that's what about Hinduism, we can all do it the way that feels right to us.

Maya

kallol
29 October 2010, 08:46 PM
Vannakam, (to be honest I have never heard this greeting before, what does it mean?)

My friends and family are very open to it, I have not had any negative reactions from them at all.
I'm honestly a little surprised, especially the reaction from a VERY, very conservative and Catholic sister in law, it didn't seem to face her too much. (Though we have never had a face to face talk about it, as we see each other very little. She actually assumed that I was either Christian or Atheist until very recently. We'll see if she says something when I see her)
My other sister in law who is Jewish, has been with me to the Ashram, she loved the chanting, but didn't like our photos of our guru.

My husband isn't Hindu but he does Puja's with me and he always likes what I tell him about Hinduism.

My parents have become quite the Ganesha devotees, we call each other and ask to leave him sweets if we need prayer. It's sweet, because they have never been religious at all.

It may help my family deal with this difference by the fact that I'm not very conservative with anything other than being vegetarian. At my ashram we are very open and artistic so there is no requirements for specific clothing or needs to follow specific rituals. (well maybe a few small ones) It's very devoted and spiritual but unusually free actually as ashrams go. Our guru was a scientist and wanted a place is like a university of spirituality both East/West but nonsectarian.
My temple is more traditional. It's Bhakti/Smarta and amazing, though I'm more of a Jnana person and Advaita.
It's great to have both though. The Ashram is paradise on earth, it really is!
And I'm just getting to know the temple and it's seems lovely

Wow, I'm writing up a storm here. It's really nice to get to know you.

Om Namah Shivaya

Maya

It is through the centuries and centuries of maze and human nature many a cowebs of rituals have developed, which have hidden the TRUTH behind all of these - in India. These are deviations from the originally stated rituals. Again those are at karma level and have to be slight adapted to the modern era.

The new way of approach to the KNOWLEDGE (SD) by the people of the west is refreshing and possibly bring back the focus on the right area.

Hopefully in centuries to come we will revive the SD in its pristine form.

So focus on the right knowledge, right thoughts, right actions and all above - the unwavering bhakti.

Love and best wishes

TatTvamAsi
30 October 2010, 08:00 PM
Ridiculous as to how some people keep trying to dissociate "India" from "Hinduism". Unequivocally states how little you all are aware of Sanatana Dharma.

"Indian culture" is Sanatana Dharma in practice. To deny that is to deny Dharma itself.

Next.

ScottMalaysia
30 October 2010, 10:11 PM
"Indian culture" is Sanatana Dharma in practice. To deny that is to deny Dharma itself.

Do you think it's possible to be Hindu and never wear a sari or dhoti?

Sahasranama
30 October 2010, 10:18 PM
Do you think it's possible to be Hindu and never wear a sari or dhoti?

Yes, Hindu men don't wear sari. :p

Eastern Mind
31 October 2010, 08:05 AM
Yes, Hindu men don't wear sari. :p

Vannakkam Sahasranama: You've never met a Hindu cross dresser?

On a serious note, I find it quite difficult to define "Indian culture". Is the way the Indian traffic goes Indian culture? It is a way of life (culture, by some definitions) in India now, but I don't see how it relates to Sanatana Dharma.

Being woken up by a Muslim chant outside my window at 5 AM in the middle of Bangalore would be considered Indian culture by some.

Within India herself there is debate. My daughter works with a Sikh woman, lets call her Prem, and one day they were discussing Murugan. Prem denied that there was such a God. My daughter went on line and found pictures, temples etc., and showed them to Prem. Still she stuck by it, and said, "Oh that's some kind of version of Christianity.: This got a response from the Christian girl listening in on the debate: "There's no way in hell THAT has anything to do with Christianity."

But at the same time I do understand TTA's point. In the west sometimes people tend to discount certain aspects of Sanatana Dharma as being superstition, or unnecessary or having nothing to do with Sanatana Dharma. Things like fasting, waiting 31 days (depends on sect, locality, caste, etc.) after a death or birth in the family before going to temple, penance, prostrating, circumambulating in a certain direction, restricting cross gender discussion somewhat, right hand eating,... all this and lots more.

Personally, I don't discount anything until I look into it. I'm very happy to adopt any Indian culture that is clearly related to Sanatana dharma.

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
31 October 2010, 11:32 AM
Ridiculous as to how some people keep trying to dissociate "India" from "Hinduism". Unequivocally states how little you all are aware of Sanatana Dharma.

"Indian culture" is Sanatana Dharma in practice. To deny that is to deny Dharma itself.

Next.

I certainly don't think I'm ridiculous, neither are the people at my Ashram or in my temple.
The Dharma is alive in the whole universe not only in India.

Maya

Maya3
31 October 2010, 11:35 AM
Thank you Kallol!
Bless you too!

Maya

Sahasranama
31 October 2010, 11:41 AM
Vannakkam Sahasranama: You've never met a Hindu cross dresser?

Actually, I have at a wedding.


On a serious note, I find it quite difficult to define "Indian culture". Is the way the Indian traffic goes Indian culture? It is a way of life (culture, by some definitions) in India now, but I don't see how it relates to Sanatana Dharma.

Being woken up by a Muslim chant outside my window at 5 AM in the middle of Bangalore would be considered Indian culture by some.


Within India herself there is debate. My daughter works with a Sikh woman, lets call her Prem, and one day they were discussing Murugan. Prem denied that there was such a God. My daughter went on line and found pictures, temples etc., and showed them to Prem. Still she stuck by it, and said, "Oh that's some kind of version of Christianity.: This got a response from the Christian girl listening in on the debate: "There's no way in hell THAT has anything to do with Christianity." Aum NamasivayaThe name murugan may not be familiar in North India, murugan is better known as kartikeya. I would think that most Indians and Hindus would recognise kartikeya or murugan, iconography is also different in north and south India. I have had similar situations where even pundits would not recognise something, because it wasn't thaught in his particular sect, family or region. That's why I think it's important to look with a broader view at Hinduism, there is so much we can learn from each other.

Maya3
31 October 2010, 11:54 AM
Actually, I have at a wedding.

The name murugan may not be familiar in North India, murugan is better known as kartikeya. I would think that most Indians and Hindus would recognise kartikeya or murugan, iconography is also different in north and south India. I have had similar situations where even pundits would not recognise something, because it wasn't thaught in his particular sect, family or region. That's why I think it's important to look with a broader view at Hinduism, there is so much we can learn from each other.

India has 1 billion people right?
So it would be pretty obvious that the cultures within vary greatly, if it's so varied within the country I think it should only be expected that these variations will spread outside of India.

It's not a new phenomenon, my teachers guru began his teachings in the U.S in 1958 and our Ashram was established in 1964.

Maya

Eastern Mind
31 October 2010, 01:43 PM
Actually, I have at a wedding.

The name murugan may not be familiar in North India, murugan is better known as kartikeya. I would think that most Indians and Hindus would recognise kartikeya or murugan, iconography is also different in north and south India. I have had similar situations where even pundits would not recognise something, because it wasn't thaught in his particular sect, family or region. That's why I think it's important to look with a broader view at Hinduism, there is so much we can learn from each other.

Vannakkam Sahasranam: Yes I realise this. It was just an example. My point is more like Maya makes on her post. Vast, vast, vast is Indian 'culture'.

Aum Namasivaya

NayaSurya
02 November 2010, 08:31 PM
Dear NayaSurya,

Regarding your last post I can see why you would be upset. But see the thing is, residing in America, and being born in America. I think your example is really irrelevant. Imagine being born in an American home and being told that Jesus is the one and only god anytime spirituality came up. You must excuse a class of CHILDREN and their teacher (who most likely wouldn't want to receive any e-mails from upset parents about agreeing with your daughters beliefs when she couldn't do so for any of the others.) I'm assuming where you live is mostly Christan, Mormon, ECT. The teacher probably didn't want to start a class argument about religion regarding the fact that their minds are so small they must nap once a day to function.

I am American and am deeply offended that you would over generalize a whole country due to one incidence that happened in your child's elementary school. I am, right now, seeking out Hinduism. Which proves your theory wrong.

Perhaps if you would like less of a backlash in all walks of life, you should probably stay away from remarks that are offensive and out of the blue such as "America is like a kindergarten class at naptime" OR "All the children on those tiny colored mats on the floor napping and the teachers tip toe around trying to avoid stepping on them."

Sincerely,
Forrest


Dear Forrest...

Imagine?:p

Thing is I was born in America and raised here. I am Cherokee and Irish...so my description of America is fairly dead on...and from my own almost forty years of roaming around on this rock. I am born American, I was raised in a home and forced into numerous religions before I was an adult.

When I said America is like a class napping it is...there are those awake, trying very hard not to offend those still sleeping...and those still unaware. Two types...I think this is hardly a generalization. You are either aware or not and so it goes. I have been around almost forty years, spent my life in and around a military base where I was neighbors with people of every nationality and religion. I was told that my neighbors would go to hell, I was forbidden to even speak to them once it was discovered they were Hindu or Buddhist. So I know all about those other individuals.

One who is a Senior in high school doesn't run around teasing, children in first grade, telling them that they are stupid because they can not read...and likewise, sleeping implies those who are not aware.

If you think sleeping is offensive, there are other, less kind words, I have heard when speaking of these unaware beings...and sleeping is the most kind word I can come up with. As a former sleeper...I know who I am speaking about as I come from this place. Sleeping is a kind way to reference one who is unaware. Sleeping implies you do awaken...

Yes, my daughter is not willing to agree that jesus is not the one true god, and I do not know why she should have to entertain such things, as she is very young. I am not teaching her to believe jesus is god, why would I?

My daughter is not in kindergarten, she is in first grade, her little mind is big enough to understand Shiva, but not able to understand why others have to announce their religious affiliation to her without provocation.

And as for out of the blue, this whole conversation is about folks such as myself and our abandon of culture and identity....so it's very relevant.

These past three weeks I have been tremendously busy holding a free haunted house for my neighbors and going to fall activities with my children. During the school's Fall Festival we saw our first Hindu family in our town. They were volunteering at the snow cone booth and we looked at each other. My husband introduced himself to the husband and wife. I cried on the way home...just so overwhelmed by this vision.

Truth is, I don't think we are worthy enough to have native Hindu friends. I feel we are in the midst of some sort of punishment and I do my best not to become upset while I burn this bit of karma off.

One day, when you are faced with the fact that your children and their children..and their children...will never be accepted by this "moral majority", may never find spouses with similar beliefs, and will always be swimming upstream in the current of this birth culture, you may find yourself wondering if it would be simply better to let them, your very own children, sleep with this culture so that they do not face such hardship.

Sometimes, I do not know what is more of a disservice, to raise them aware, then they would always be fighting up the current. Or to raise them christian and allow them to marry and have worldly happiness. It is only when I think of their children and their children...that I know we have made the right decision to continue to go against the current of this culture. So we swim on, not only for them but for the ones who will come.

What we do as parents not only affects our children...but generations.

As for the rest of your post, I don't need less of a backlash...there is no backlash. We are kind to every person, despite their feelings about our religion.

This is a forum for Sanatana Dharma. A place someone can come and speak about these things without having to offend those individuals I am refering to in that other post.

Eric11235
27 November 2010, 11:33 AM
Vannakam all,

I have not read most of this discussion and will just state the reasons I converted. Being an american raised by Liberals, I was taught to not hate and try to be good to people. Although as it would later turn out that my teachers were little more than hateful people in their own right. I took this philosophy to heart. I'm not saying I love the american mode of life. Secularism, Hedonism, Inconstant, Fleeting, Ephemeral. All these words come to mind. As with all cultures there is the good and the bad, and sometimes the bad outweighs the good. I do not hate america, it is my home and Alma Mater (not in the sense of a school but as a literal "Nourishing Mother") but that said, I have learned that ethnocentrism leads to a good deal of hatred, and I do not like the fact that many people in this country are that way. I feel that Jingoism leads to more problems than it helps, but I am digressing a good deal. My point is that, I try to take the best of the cultures I have been raised in and associate myself with. And I don't take preference one over the other, I try to mesh the two and learn to live that way. I find it rather fulfilling to have a hindu philosophy while living an american lifestyle. But that is just me. Hinduism and my personal beliefs are rather congruent. So I converted because I want to be able to align myself with my beliefs in a larger context.

Namaste

ARYA INDRAGNI SINGH
12 December 2010, 11:50 PM
lol ..this is so true! im a convert...but the thing is i do love indian culture ..i love the music ..the clothes...my indian freinds laugh becuase my fashion is all over the place..lol ill wear tamil style with rajastani elements..etc. etc. in winter a wear my turban to cover my ears so i look sikh! ive always carried a knife and wore steel bracelets..they are also elements of western occult practice by the way ...lol
i was born in colombia and been a u.s. citizen for 34 years...lol
i came across hindu religion because of my study of western occult traditions ...which always pay homage to india! so i decided to go to the source!
i felt home ...even though most indians think im a joke! lol when i go to mandir i keep to myself..my practice as taught to me by my guru could be called "WESTERN ARYAN OBSERVANCE" i dont call myself hindu but arya ..
i read vedas ,upanishads and gita ..
i do have an ideal india in my head..but i know it is not reality...
I WOULD LIKE TO SAY IM DISPLEASED WITH INDIANS ADOPTING WHAT IS WORSE WITH WESTERN CULTURE! I ALSO HATE THE SELF LOATHING I SEE MANY HINDUS ENGAGE IN!
SORRY IM RAMBLING NEW TO FORUM!

JAI ARYA JAI SRI SHIVA

Eastern Mind
13 December 2010, 06:46 PM
Vannakkam AIS: Welcome to HDF. I hope your presence adds to this community.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
16 December 2010, 06:37 AM
It's considered arrogant to call yourself Arya. Arya means noble, you should not call yourself Arya. Only when you are praising someone or something, should you use the word Arya. It's similar to using ji, like in Mata ji, Pita ji etc. It's better to use the name Hindu and reserve Arya for when you are speaking to someone respectable. Praising oneself is not considered noble or Arya.

Eastern Mind
16 December 2010, 07:36 AM
It's considered arrogant to call yourself Arya. Arya means noble, you should not call yourself Arya. Only when you are praising someone or something, should you use the word Arya. It's similar to using ji, like in Mata ji, Pita ji etc. It's better to use the name Hindu and reserve Arya for when you are speaking to someone respectable. Praising oneself is not considered noble or Arya.

Vannakkam Sahasranama: Words and names are so tricky. I didn't react to this chap's name the way you did because I didn't understand the context you just pointed out, as I suspect neither did AIS. So you kindly pointed it out to him.

But it truth be told, I reacted in a similar way to your name. My first thought was, "I hope this fellow didn't choose his name to insinuate that the sahasranama chakra is where he's getting his ideas. Either we're very lucky or this chap has an ego."

Later, after reading many of your posts, of course I came to a different conclusion.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
16 December 2010, 07:43 AM
i dont call myself hindu but arya ..Hindu is more appropiate than Arya. According pandit Madhavacharya Shastri, calling yourself Arya is considered arrogant. I am not saying it's bad, it just doesn't make sense, it's like calling yourself majesty or something similar. People use all sorts of nicknames on forums which is fine, but the word Arya is not a good subsitute for the word Hindu.

sahasranama chakraSahasranama means a thousand names, the chakra is called sahasrara. ;)

Eastern Mind
16 December 2010, 10:30 AM
Hindu is more appropiate than Arya. According pandit Madhavacharya Shastri, calling yourself Arya is considered arrogant. I am not saying it's bad, it just doesn't make sense, it's like calling yourself majesty or something similar. People use all sorts of nicknames on forums which is fine, but the word Arya is not a good subsitute for the word Hindu.
Sahasranama means a thousand names, the chakra is called sahasrara. ;)

Vannakkam: Right.. I'm beginning to appreciate ESL difficulties even more, since a couple of letters just threw me off.

Thanks.

Aum Namasivaya

Believer
17 December 2010, 03:16 PM
There is a wide spectrum of 'converts' in the forum. On one side are those who are firmly grounded in JC, become vegetarians and adopt some Hindu values without the tag of Hinduism – something like new age thinking. On the other end of the spectrum are those who try to imbibe everything and still crave for more of the SD religion/philosophy/culture. It should not come as a surprise that those whose sadhana goes deep would adopt what is termed as the ‘Indian-ness’ and distance themselves from their previous values/appearance/religion.

Changing the frame of mind to be in tune with the SD requires a multi-pronged approach. Let us look at the simple act of visiting a typical temple and taking part in the weekly puja. As a devotee approaches the temple steps, he bows at the threshold, touches the ground with his right hand and then touches his forehead with that hand – a physical demonstration of ‘I am checking my ego at the gate’. As soon as he enters the temple, he rings the hanging bell(s) – physical acknowledgement of having crossed the threshold and a declaration of ‘Lord I am entering your house’. He proceeds with clasped hands towards the alter. Upon reaching there, he prostrates in front of the deities and says a silent prayer – paying respects to the deities. The physical performance of rituals, the spiritual clothes one wears to the temple, the decorations on the deities, the incense, the flowers are all part of a package meant to bring a person into a submissive frame of mind. This is further augmented by singing of the bhajans. The sermon sinks in much deeper when delivered to a receptive mind who has put aside his worldly ego/titles/wealth, although temporarily, and sincerely desires a communion with the Lord. After the sermon comes the Aarti – an act of worshipping/praising and thanking the Lord for his mercy to the devotee. Taking of the Prasad(am) – sanctified remnants of the food enjoyed by the Lord - further bonds him to the divine with the act of eating what has been blessed by Him. There are so many small acts involved with reaching Him through puja in a temple.

As with everything else in life, what you put in determines what you get out of an effort. A ‘convert’ could sit on the sidelines and have a peripheral interest in SD, or be sitting on the fence and be a middle of the roader, planted in JC and practicing some aspects of SD, or be practicing SD exclusively. Performing the rituals, wearing ‘spiritual clothes’ for puja, applying a tilak on the forehead or some other spiritual marks, being punctual for the temple visit, not treating it as a social get-together are all meant to reaffirm and deepen one's relationship with the Lord. One may pick and choose and be marginally associated, or go all out, with the change in one’s faith. Going ‘all out’ DOES require absorbing some of the 'new' cultural values. After all, as another poster has so eloquently put it - "Indian culture" is Sanatana Dharma in practice; to deny that is to deny Dharma itself. There are no compulsions. Some may be content with practicing some aspects of it for attaining peace of mind. But having a chance at experiencing the real thing does require going the extra mile!

Eastern Mind
17 December 2010, 05:47 PM
Vannakkam Believer et al:

I have no idea what "Indian culture" is. Its too vast and an apt analogy could be "European culture". If we turned the OP question around to "Something I noticed about SOME born Hindus" my first response would be occasional if not often ethnocentricity. Kumar Das touched on this earlier in the thread.
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=52023&postcount=14

For example, the temple procedure that Beleiver just described is nowhere close to the temple procedure where I go. We have no bell to ring upon entering, and no pundit delivering anything remotely resembling a sermon. There is this assumption that all Hindus practise Hinduism the way I do. Now many have travelled around India, and seen the Saivism of Kasi, and the Saivism of Chidambaram, the Vaishnavism of Trichy and of Gujarat, but many haven't. In some ways in the west, especially in larger metro areas, it is easier to notice these differences, because you don't have to travel half way across a nation to see it, you just have to travel across a town or occasionally just down the road.

A second observation is how Indian Hindus often jump to the conclusion all of us came from a Christian background, when in fact many of us came from western non-culture. This is just because non-culture or non-religion is pretty much non existent in India, whereas over here its all over. Many families go fishing Sunday mornings rather than to church.

I think its excellent and valuable to share how each of us views each other as it adds knowledge all around, just so long as no offense is given or taken. If someone from India would like to gain a better understanding of how we converts see you, I would be happy to join in a thread that turned this one around.

Aum Namasivaya

Believer
17 December 2010, 06:21 PM
EMji, you are such a cool, level headed person. So, when I see smoke coming out of your ears, I get worried. :)
We can talk about all your issues when cooler climate prevails.
My apologies if some of the things in my post got you upset.

Sahasranama
17 December 2010, 06:52 PM
There's a place in Belgium called Radhadesh, here ISCKON followers have emerged themselves in Hindu culture without any reservations. People make fun of them sometimes, but their dedication is really admirable. http://www.radhadesh.com/en/multimedia/gallery (http://www.radhadesh.com/en)

Eastern Mind
17 December 2010, 06:52 PM
EMji, you are such a cool, level headed person. So, when I see smoke coming out of your ears, I get worried. :)
We can talk about all your issues when cooler climate prevails.
My apologies if some of the things in my post got you upset.

Vannakkam Believer: Trust me:), there is no smoke. If there was, you'd know it from a different tone. I just think that SOME people on both sides of the planet know less that they think they do about the other side. For example, I was at the bank today and the chap was Raj from Delhi. I was making sure I notified them for my upcoming trip so they would add a sticky to my account so the security mechanism for stolen bank cards would be avoided. He asked where I was going and I said, "India" . Then he asked where and I said TN. What for? he asked. "To see the temples, just the temples." at which point he got this absolutely dumbfounded look on his face. Perhaps he was a Christian, or perhaps he just couldn't get over the idea some some white guy going to India not to see the Taj Mahal. I'll never know. :)

But when I read YOUR posts, and the posts of a few others, I really read them, because I know they're going to have knowledge. Certain others I scan over. This goes for people on both sides of this same coin.

If you feel my simple observations are more issues, then that is of course your right, but I can assure you you're wrong. I think discussing such things openly is a valid thing to do, but all sides need to read, and try to get what the other side is trying to say, even if it comes across as some convoluted weird confused mix up. Wouldn't we all like to have a better understanding of how others view the vastness of Hinduism? I certainly would.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
17 December 2010, 07:19 PM
I think discussing such things openly is a valid thing to do, but all sides need to read, and try to get what the other side is trying to say, even if it comes across as some convoluted weird confused mix up. Namasivaya

Sure, you can read what they are saying, but there's nothing wrong with calling someone out for speading a convoluted weird confused mix up and leaving the conversation. If you hear everything out what new age converts have to say about Hinduism, you will die of convulated information overload. I realise that people have to start somewhere, but sometimes, I do not have the patience to talk about Hinduism in terms of new age, tree hugging, Jesus loving, chakra meditating, pot smoking, non dogmatic universalism.

Eastern Mind
17 December 2010, 07:53 PM
Sure, you can read what they are saying, but there's nothing wrong with calling someone out for speading a convoluted weird confused mix up and leaving the conversation. If you hear everything out what new age converts have to say about Hinduism, you will die of convulated information overload. I realise that people have to start somewhere, but sometimes, I do not have the patience to talk about Hinduism in terms of new age, tree hugging, Jesus loving, chakra meditating, non dogmatic universalism.


Vannakkam: Nor do I, as you may have noticed. As I recall, my view on Christ for example, had some impact on your view. Neither is there anything wrong with suggesting in a gentle way that someone may have a misunderstanding, and that goes both ways. You get more flies with honey than with vinegar ... something like that anyway. To me it goes back to attitude. When I sense a real condescending or stubborn attitude, I'm likely to leave. Also when someone contradicts themselves by actions speaking louder than words such as getting angry when talking about yamas of restraint, the irony is just too obvious. http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Perhaps I'm sometimes overly patient, but it varies. If I see potential for some impact of what you, myself, and others are saying, then I might keep going. But if I hit a brick wall, there really is no point. Again it goes both ways. Sometimes trying to open the mind of a born Hindu is just as tricky, and that includes the overly universalist born Hindus, or the fundamentalist, my sect is THE only sect born Hindus. You are unique here on HDF because your background is different, and you live in a country where as far as I know, no one else on HDF does. I think most of us make varying statements according to whom it is we are addressing.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
17 December 2010, 08:50 PM
As I recall, my view on Christ for example, had some impact on your view.I liked your wording of "Jesus is irrelevant" and I have adopted that. I used to think Jesus was just a regular bearded jew, but BryonMorrigon's historical perspective made me confident to say that he never even existed. But even before I was on this forum I was arguing that the story that Jesus went to India was just a construct of missionaries in their attempt to convert Hindus. I also used to argue that this idea of vivekananda that "all religions are one" is nonsense, you and Satay pointed out that this was called Radical Universalism and since then I have read up on that subject a little bit. So, I really didn't change my opinion that much, I just refined it. I think it's really difficult to change someone's opinion. If someone is telling me that I am a bigot for not believing that the ultimate ideal of Hinduism can be achieved through Christianity, I don't think I should bother continuing the conversation, because it's like banging my head against a wall.

Eastern Mind
17 December 2010, 09:33 PM
I think it's really difficult to change someone's opinion.

Vannakkam: I totally agree. I don't think I've changed my opinion on much at all from being here. But I've learned stuff I didn't know before, about cultures, Hindus, etc. An example is I learned (from Devotee) that the average Indian is pretty unaware of sect. There's quite a bit more as well, but the main purpose I come here is to promote Hindu Solidarity and answer more practical questions from youth, not for specific knowledge on scripture or whatever. One of the things Hinduism is lacking compared to Christianity is a lay ministry of practical counselors. Kids need practical realistic sensible information, not listen to boring readings of irrelevant (to them) scripture. We're losing a whole generation. Large Christian churches have youth pastors who devote their entire lives to helping out, providing a place to discuss, helping, outreach, etc. We have swamis discussing or preaching high falutin' philosophy and priests who stick to temple rituals. Then when a kid struggles with homework, or has raging hormones, they have no real sincere helpful place to go. The parents just say 'Study harder" or "Don't do that." Its a generation gap not unlike America's during the 60s.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
17 December 2010, 09:51 PM
I think this is mostly a problem in the west, since Hindu families are not always living very close to each other. On the other hand, muslims have been able to build communities much easier than Hindus. In the Netherlands, this is mostly a financial and management issue. Hindus don't trust organisations, but muslims are always willing to donate to the mosque. I also think that most Hindu organisations are too concerned with "image" of Hinduism, instead of providing regular cultural activities for Hindus. Look at HAF or Rajan Zed, they spend their resources protesting against western yoga and caste system (futile), but I don't see them offering Sanskrit classes to the youth. Many young people think they are not smart enough to learn Sanskrit, they lack confidence to study it. A lot of Hindu organisations spend their money on larger holidays which turn out to become big parties with rituals, food, music, dance etc. There's little done for helping people integrate Hinduism in their daily lives. Here in the Netherlands many elders/ priests tell children not to worry too much about religion and focus on school and carreer. I don't know what can be done, maybe the internet is a good medium for the younger generation to learn about Hinduism, but them there might be a lot of misinformation and information overload.

Eastern Mind
18 December 2010, 08:11 AM
On the other hand, muslims have been able to build communities much easier than Hindus. In the Netherlands, this is mostly a financial and management issue. Hindus don't trust organisations, but muslims are always willing to donate to the mosque.

Vannakkam: Yes, I've heard of strong Islamic enclaves in Europe. Here in Canada and US such is not the case. Islamic people are quite diverse and spread out within cities. I think it may be a numbers reason. I know of 5 Hindu temples here, but only 4 mosques. Then again I don't go around counting mosques. So just as India varies from state to state a lot, so does the western world. An example is that in the Netherlands there are as lot of second-migration Hindus from Surinam, no? Whereas here, we have large groups from Guyana, Fiji, and Trinidad. Of course this observation is tied to history of the British Empire/Commonwealth and Dutch overseas colonies.

So in the west, there is a ton of variance as well, language being one of them, an individual country's immigration policy being another.

Aum Namasivaya

Shanti
19 December 2010, 04:16 PM
: Here in Canada and US such is not the case. Islamic people are quite diverse and spread out within cities. I think it may be a numbers reason. I know of 5 Hindu temples here, but only 4 mosques. Then again I don't go around counting mosques. So just as India varies from state to state a lot, so does the western world.
Aum Namasivaya

Hope you all don't mind me jumping in here. I just wanted to throw out there that I have found the opposite of this to be true. I have found there to be strong, unified Islamic groups as opposed to scattered Hindu groups.

Mosques almost alway have very organized "Sunday School" programs for the youth with teachers, committee members, generous funding, etc whereas only some temples offer youth classes and those are usually not quite as organized and depend heavily on volunteers and parents to come up with curricula.

There is heavy emphasis on the youth to learn and understand their religion and reading and memorizing the quran.

We travel an hour away every weekend for my kids to attend a Hindu Culture Class. (We do this because there are not many Hindu's where we live and I'd like my kids to be around other Hindu youth every now and then). There they do sing some mantras, but emphasize on memorizing them is not there. They often come out with coloring sheets about random topics like "brotherhood" and "being helpful".

Sahasranama said "Here in the Netherlands many elders/ priests tell children not to worry too much about religion and focus on school and carreer."

Yes, this is the same as what I experienced growing up in the States. A lot of the reason for this is that they did not know the answers to my curious questions. My parents did whatever they knew to do and most other elders I know are the same way. So when a child asks something about the scriptures or the reasons behind some of our rituals and then they don't really know it was easier to just tell us to study hard, be a good person, and so on.

Our family was very close to a Swamiji and he would come to our house once or twice a year to perform a havan. He did not speak English and my Hindi has never been that great. I had so many questions but it was difficult for him to explain to me and difficult for my mom to translate. I also feel he must have thought me too young to answer some things. For this I do see the need for an equivalent of a xtian 'youth pastor' type.

~S

Shanti
19 December 2010, 04:35 PM
As for the original post, I'm not so sure that Hindu converts are necessarily acting 'ultra Indian' and disregarding their original culture altogether. I find that Indians in general adapt more to Western culture as a necessity to affirm their status as an American/Canadian/European citizen and Westerners adapt more to Indian culture as a way of affirming there Hindu religion.

As someone else posted "the grass is always greener on the other side".

There is the need to let it be known of one's self-identification and I agree that this is generally more seen in converts, but not just Hindu converts, converts of all faiths. For example, born again xtians tend to be the most outspoken and cross bearing. Women converts to Islam will almost always adopt the hijab and often the burka. Sikh converts tend to wear the turban.

This self-identification helps to ease one's psyche into this 'new' role.

This all just my take on it btw.

~S

Eastern Mind
19 December 2010, 05:51 PM
Hope you all don't mind me jumping in here. I just wanted to throw out there that I have found the opposite of this to be true. I have found there to be strong, unified Islamic groups as opposed to scattered Hindu groups.

Mosques almost alway have very organized "Sunday School" programs for the youth with teachers, committee members, generous funding, etc whereas only some temples offer youth classes and those are usually not quite as organized and depend heavily on volunteers and parents to come up with curricula.


Vannakkam Shanti: I agree with you. What I was referring to was geographic enclaves where physically people all live in the same area. In Montreal there is an entire large section where you find nobody except very traditional Jews. I don't find that here but maybe its true in other cities. Of course in mental ways, the Moslems have a strong sense of organisation, having private schools etc. , and their sense of community that way is commendable. Our largest group here are the Lebanese followed by Ammadhiya (sp) , and then Pakistani. So my guess is it varies. I haven't studied it all out that well though. Usually somewhere nearby a mosque you'll find a few stores catering to that community, but its not very dense geographically.

Your comments regarding converts to anything are spot on. Same goes for vegans, vegetarians, immigrants who get into hockey, etc. Fresh and enthusiastic about it is fairly normal I think.

Aum Namasivaya

Believer
19 December 2010, 09:27 PM
Namaste EMji,

Lot of thought had been put into my last post and nothing was written that could be construed as condescending or disrespectful. However you took issue with some thoughts/ideas/paragraphs. Here are replies to your comments:



I have no idea what "Indian culture" is.
Do you really mean it?
With 30+ years of exposure to the Indian community and to SD, and with several trips to India under your belt, do you feel comfortable making this claim?


For example, the temple procedure that Beleiver just described is nowhere close to the temple procedure where I go.

I gave some of the common procedures followed, just as an example of the multi-pronged approach to deepen the relationship with SD. My intent was not to list everything for temples of all sampradayes. Did not mean to exclude your particular temple practices. BTW, if there were no sermon in my temple, I would withhold at least 30% of the money I donate. :)


A second observation is how Indian Hindus often jump to the conclusion all of us came from a Christian background, when in fact many of us came from western non-culture. This is just because non-culture or non-religion is pretty much non existent in India, whereas over here its all over. Many families go fishing Sunday mornings rather than to church.

I was not a temple going religious person in India. And there is a large majority of people in cities who were like me. Please accept the fact that many Indian Hindus in India are just like the 'Western non-culture' people. But these non-practicing Hindus do retain a Hindu priest for their marriage ceremony and may be for their last rites too. That defines them to be Hindus. Similarly, most Sunday-morning-gone-fishing 'non-culture' westerners also retain a member of the Christian clergy when they get married or get buried. That makes them Christian. This general classification of non practicing Hindus and Christians is made to simplify discussions. I don't know why this gets you steamed up when for the sake of general discussion, non converted, non-practicing Westerners are classified as Xitians? Same goes for millions of non-practicing Hindus in India too. Please calm down and try to absorb the gist of a 'complete paragraph' instead of tearing into each individual word and hurting yourself in the process. I don't go out of my way to aggravate you. We are not adversaries but traveling together on the same path. Read positive things in my write-ups and don't read what was not intended. If a person projects his negativity into everything I say, then everything I say would sound negative, even when I tell you 'you are my Isht devta'. Think about it with a cool head and please, please, please don't respond right away. Sleep on it for a couple of days like I did, before coming back to tell me, hopefully, that you agree with my analysis.

More is expected from people who have been blessed with abundance. We two, you and I, fall into the 'being more blessed' category; both spiritually and materially. Let us pool our resources in order to help the younger Hindu members and the ones who come to the forum for their first taste of Hinduism, instead of wasting effort on trivial things that might separate us a tad. Make sense?

Eastern Mind
20 December 2010, 09:50 AM
Vannakkam Believer: I'll try to discuss some of your points. I reiterate that your previous post read way too far between the lines insinuating I was reacting emotionally. But hey that's your right. Perhaps there were some unintentional suggestions unknown to me in the words.

Regarding 'Indian culture' and my not knowing it was just another way of stating its vastness. I think its more vast than European culture is, and don't believe a Spanish person would want a Dutch person speaking for them in India or in North America. Sure there would be a lot in common, but also a lot of differences. Now my familiar version of 'Indian culture' is actually Sri Lankan Tamil culture. Here in my city I have attended various functions by various cultural entities from India. I've been to the Bengali Association's celebration of Durga Puja that coincides with Navaratri. I've been to a fairly strict Smarta but North Indian temple. I've attended functions by Tamil Cultural Association, Kannada Association of Alberta, Telegu Association, a Gujarati Association picnic, observed Sikh parade, gone to a Hindu 'Kerala group' function, a Malayalee wedding dominated by the Malayalee Christians here. Yet again I attended an awards program sponsored by the Council of Indian Societies. I've also touched bases with people from the local Fijian Sanatan Society, the Caribbean Hindu Association, etc.

So yes I have indeed seen some 'Indian Culture' but its a word that is misunderstood here in the west because people don't tend to explain the vastness such as I just did. I think its important, especially for westerners, to have a sense of this complexity. One can hardly lay claim to knowing much 'Indian culture' if they happen to spend a week in Goa on the beaches where Europeans flock. http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Even in China there are some 25 ethnic minorities with populations over 100 000. Most people just refer to them as 'Chinese' , which quite likely an insult to the people within those cultures.

Your sense that western 'non-culture' is still vaguely attached to Christianity is only partially true. It holds for some. Still there are many who marry via the 'justice of the peace' method just for legal reasons, as well as many who don't marry at all. Same thing with funerals. Often a Christian minister is asked to perform a marriage because he or she is just handier than finding a marriage commissioner, or they do it for free as a friend might. Once again there is huge variety.

Besides this, the US and Canada vary quite a lot. I notice it each time I cross the border. Various states vary as well. Utah and Hawaii are excellent examples as states that stand out. A good linguist can often tell which state an American is from merely by the accent.

As far as your last bit about reading positivity, I do that, but I would humbly request the same. It must be indeed frustrating to come on here and see some of the viciousness put forth by certain esteemed members. http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gifYou and I don't need to add to that flow.

Let's not forget the OP either, which was basically saying some western Hindus have an overly positive view of India. That happened to me as well. I had some misconceptions. So here is a question for you and others regarding the East/West divide. Which would be easier, moving to India, or moving from India regarding culture shock. I'll hold my view back for a moment.

Aum Namasivaya

Believer
20 December 2010, 04:53 PM
EMji, One thing at a time please - Culture:

Generally speaking Culture refers to the core values of a group. Hindus from various countries and from different states of India exhibit the following traits:
1. Respect for people older than you, caring for the elderly
2. Strong family values, Extended family members supporting one another in any crisis
3. Push for getting educated
4. Dressing modestly
5. Bound by one religion and having varying degrees of desire to learn about and to practice Hinduism in its various forms
6. Taking the marriage vows seriously thereby reducing the trauma of divorce on children and on the society in general
7. Making pilgrimages to the places of one's choice/convenience - Varanasi, Prayag, the numerous Ornate Temples of the South, Vrindavan, Ayodhya, Kanyakumari, Badrinath etc.
8. Enormous respect for women
9. Respect for all kinds of life
10. Sexual activity is part of life and not the centerpiece of ones existence.
And some more similar shared values.

Additional information: Hindus are not a monolithic group and among the Hindus in India there are multitudes of different ethnic and linguistic groups with widely varying food habits, and variations in their mannerisms and daily lifestyles.

When it comes to culture, I would stay focused on the core values ONLY. So culturally all Hindus are ALIKE; no vastness there.
I would bring in Europeans and Chinese and other examples only for comparison in regard to the differences in lifestyles among different ethnic/linguistic/geographical Hindu groups. Sure there are vast differences there.

Do I know about about every little lifestyle detail that divides Indians into various groups? No I don't.
Do I know about Indian Culture? - A resounding Yes.
And the FINAL caveat: Exceptions do not, and should not be invoked to prove a point. They are mere distractions from the topic under discussion.

I haven't broken any new ground for you here. You know as much as I do about the Hindu culture/traditions/differences in lifestyles. We can't claim ignorance about the Indian culture!
-

Believer
21 December 2010, 05:34 PM
Item no. 2,


Your sense that western 'non-culture' is still vaguely attached to Christianity is only partially true.If push came to shove, they WOULD identify themselves with their ancestral religion which is Xitianity. Have no doubts about that!

NayaSurya
21 December 2010, 06:04 PM
I can not speak for the rest of the western world as it is too diverse. But, here in the U.S., many, many, have ancestral background of Cherokee, Apache, and other diverse ethnicities which were and are not christian cultures. Over time these poor groups have become swallowed whole by this larger culture of America...but we are still here in large groups.

My own family are descended of the Cherokee, and converted, so numerous individuals on my Grandmother's side were not christian. Out of my three syblings and I, not one is christian.

It's funny you would mention Justice of the Peace, tomorrow is my wedding anniversary to my beloved husband and we were married at the court house by the aged Justice in their beautiful historical courthouse.

Eastern Mind
21 December 2010, 07:21 PM
It's funny you would mention Justice of the Peace, tomorrow is my wedding anniversary to my beloved husband and we were married at the court house by the aged Justice in their beautiful historical courthouse.

We were married by a Justice of the Peace. 2 witnesses and my parents came. Then later we took Hindu rites. In the US perhaps the term just a marriage commissioner. Boat Captains also did it. I have been to several such marriages. I like them of course as it has no Christianity at all. My son's wedding in the Dominican Republic was the same, a marriage commissioner who was quite busy performing all the non-Christian weddings which in itself is gaining a lot in popularity. Its cheaper in the long run and everyone gets a week in the sun.

I don't have any stats on hand, but the rate of secular cremation is also definitely on the increase.

Here;s a Canadian versus US poll showing our differences though.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/03/f-religion-poll.html

Aum Namasivaya

skanthan
29 August 2011, 11:07 AM
Vannakkam Believer: I'll try to discuss some of your points. I reiterate that your previous post read way too far between the lines insinuating I was reacting emotionally. But hey that's your right. Perhaps there were some unintentional suggestions unknown to me in the words.

Regarding 'Indian culture' and my not knowing it was just another way of stating its vastness. I think its more vast than European culture is, and don't believe a Spanish person would want a Dutch person speaking for them in India or in North America. Sure there would be a lot in common, but also a lot of differences. Now my familiar version of 'Indian culture' is actually Sri Lankan Tamil culture. Here in my city I have attended various functions by various cultural entities from India. I've been to the Bengali Association's celebration of Durga Puja that coincides with Navaratri. I've been to a fairly strict Smarta but North Indian temple. I've attended functions by Tamil Cultural Association, Kannada Association of Alberta, Telegu Association, a Gujarati Association picnic, observed Sikh parade, gone to a Hindu 'Kerala group' function, a Malayalee wedding dominated by the Malayalee Christians here. Yet again I attended an awards program sponsored by the Council of Indian Societies. I've also touched bases with people from the local Fijian Sanatan Society, the Caribbean Hindu Association, etc.

So yes I have indeed seen some 'Indian Culture' but its a word that is misunderstood here in the west because people don't tend to explain the vastness such as I just did. I think its important, especially for westerners, to have a sense of this complexity. One can hardly lay claim to knowing much 'Indian culture' if they happen to spend a week in Goa on the beaches where Europeans flock. http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Even in China there are some 25 ethnic minorities with populations over 100 000. Most people just refer to them as 'Chinese' , which quite likely an insult to the people within those cultures.

Your sense that western 'non-culture' is still vaguely attached to Christianity is only partially true. It holds for some. Still there are many who marry via the 'justice of the peace' method just for legal reasons, as well as many who don't marry at all. Same thing with funerals. Often a Christian minister is asked to perform a marriage because he or she is just handier than finding a marriage commissioner, or they do it for free as a friend might. Once again there is huge variety.

Besides this, the US and Canada vary quite a lot. I notice it each time I cross the border. Various states vary as well. Utah and Hawaii are excellent examples as states that stand out. A good linguist can often tell which state an American is from merely by the accent.

As far as your last bit about reading positivity, I do that, but I would humbly request the same. It must be indeed frustrating to come on here and see some of the viciousness put forth by certain esteemed members. http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gifYou and I don't need to add to that flow.

Let's not forget the OP either, which was basically saying some western Hindus have an overly positive view of India. That happened to me as well. I had some misconceptions. So here is a question for you and others regarding the East/West divide. Which would be easier, moving to India, or moving from India regarding culture shock. I'll hold my view back for a moment.

Aum Namasivaya

Are you in Edmonton? I live in Edmonton near to the Edmonton Sri Sathya Sai Baba Centre.

Miyazaki
10 September 2011, 05:29 PM
When I see people eating meat it upsets me greatly. Not only that, but the way people take great pleasure in the consumption of flesh of other creatures, in complete ignorance.

I guess this stems from my own past when I used to eat meat myself, and I suppose my shame is a projection of that. I think we all need to cultivate mindfulness of our emotions more and distance ourselves from any negatives.

Om Shanti.

Daniellasaur
12 September 2011, 01:33 AM
I admit I have only read the first page of this thread, so sorry if the topic is now different, but yes, I understand. At first I was guilty of this, but then I realized on my drive to the temple that on the same street is a church, a mosque, and a temple. How blessed are we to have such freedom!! I have been told that on special occasions all of the places of worship on that street work together to figure out parking. Hindus are welcome to park at the mosque/church on days such as Ganesh Chaturthi, and on Eid, Muslims can park at the places as well. A Methodist church and my temple get together every month to feed the homeless and do other service work. The respect for all religions is amazing and a great part of this western culture. I was talking to a woman (my Hindu "mom") about her views on America when she first came, and the first thing she said was how great it was that people were so respectful and interested in her religion. That christians did not feel offended by Hinduism and that there was such a community of faith strong enough to cross religions. That really made an impact on me, and although I would love to go to India, I am now still proud to be from the West.

Eastern Mind
13 September 2011, 11:20 AM
Vannakkam Danielle: Its always good to hear of the co-operation between religions. Of course these people aren't fundamentalists, who are the enemy of all religions, including their own in moderate more loving forms. Reminds me a bit of our Canadian show, "Little Mosque on the Prairie," which just as easily could have been "Little Mandir on the Prairie."

Aum Namasivaya

OM GUY
30 September 2011, 11:14 PM
Okay sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, and I want to make a disclaimer this is not about all convert Hindus, but only SOME (A FEW) that I have noticed.

This mostly applies to non-Indian Hindus, but something I noticed about a few of them is that they tend to disregard any positive aspects of their own culture and declare that Indian culture is better.

I mean some of them say that "our western culture is horrible it's all about sex and money and materialism. Indian culture is more refined, spiritual, and wonderful." This is something that bugs me about a few converts. They try to make their birth countries and culture seem horrible and only praise India and Indian culture.

It's as if they are ashamed to be from a western culture. I'll repeat again this only about a few people I have noticed, but I don't see why they do this. I get that western culture has its problems, but so does Indian culture. And I also get that Indian culture has a lot of positive aspects, but so does western culture.

Hari OM! Since I am new here, I'd like to respond to this first post, based upon what I have observed. I suppose you can still call me a convert if you like, as I converted 45 years ago, but have only gotten close to the Indian Hindu people within the last three years, or so. Like my western mother used to say, there are good and bad in all walks of life.

Living in the west all of my life, it's easy to see most of the bad and walk the planet grumbling about that. I come from a Catholic life, where one got beaten for asking questions about God. Brainwashing, is what it was. While I deeply love the Hindu way of life, there is still a good amount of brainwashing here too, but more peaceful than I experienced as a child growing up under the iron fist of Christianity. Sanatana Dharma has it's brutality in the slaying of demons, etc., but it seems to have less, how should I say...... 'discrimination' at it's roots.

For me, going to the Temple, I see plenty of hokus-pokus as I did in Christianity. But I've come to find God within, so everything else around me either supports that or it doesn't. For example, a swami just visited our Temple. While his words were sweet and enlightening to be sure, I kind of giggled at the 'hand-maidens" around him, his "entourage" as it were. The dainty fellow couldn't seem fit to put his own glasses in the case, someone had to run over and do it for him. He could not partake in prasad with the rest of us, no, he had to have his own room with his servants wiping his face and practically feeding him. Respect is one thing, lunacy quite the other.

For me, the grass isn't green on the other side any more. While I do truly see some great Hindu people doing things for others and in turn for God in a very silent and stealthy way, I see others who pretend to take the light of the flame from aarti to their eyes, yet live in ignorance as their choice.

I guess my main point is that one has to separate the wheat from the chaff, the good from the not-so-good, from all of humanity. Kind of like taking a bite from everyone's food-culture and enjoying what is the best that you can derive.

R Gitananda
15 October 2011, 02:02 PM
Namaste

Having lived some time in India, I can say that there are some positive and negative aspects
about Indian culture and U.S. culture. However I think the phenomenon of new converts to
Hinduism over-identifying with Indian culture may be as natural as seeing only the positive
in a new love interest. Hopefully the love will eventually mature and deepen.

Hari Aum Shanti



Okay sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, and I want to make a disclaimer this is not about all convert Hindus, but only SOME (A FEW) that I have noticed.

This mostly applies to non-Indian Hindus, but something I noticed about a few of them is that they tend to disregard any positive aspects of their own culture and declare that Indian culture is better.

I mean some of them say that "our western culture is horrible it's all about sex and money and materialism. Indian culture is more refined, spiritual, and wonderful." This is something that bugs me about a few converts. They try to make their birth countries and culture seem horrible and only praise India and Indian culture.

It's as if they are ashamed to be from a western culture. I'll repeat again this only about a few people I have noticed, but I don't see why they do this. I get that western culture has its problems, but so does Indian culture. And I also get that Indian culture has a lot of positive aspects, but so does western culture.

anisha_astrologer
18 October 2011, 01:35 AM
the rejection on the parts of some converts may seem foolish. the essence that everyone misses is that each coin has two sides, similarly every culture has some good and some bad points. i agree with you that it is ok to convert but one should not be biased. hinduism promotes spirituality and so everyone who embraces hinduism should be able to to see positive aspects in everything and not ridicule everything. it is there lack of wisdom may be. may be with a deeper plunge in the indian philosophy they will be able to identify this flaw in themselves.

ohhcuppycakee
18 October 2011, 10:14 PM
I think I'm kind of like that, except I am Muslim, lol. :o

Jennifer
01 December 2011, 11:09 AM
Namaste,
As I'm reading this being a convert to Hinduism I can see what the OP is talking about here. There's a difference between religion and culture. I keep repeating this when people asking me questions that are obviously culture related that are obviously culture and not religious. But I hope since this was posted, which seems like a long time ago--the whole response hasn't changed. Anyways liked I said I am and American Hindu convert, so I do take some of my American culture, but I do also take the part of Hindu culture that is needed to stand as a Hindu. It isn't always easy to pick pieces of religion and culture apart from each other I won't lie it is very difficult. But we do need to keep to our roots as well as taking on a new belief as well as a new culture.

Eastern Mind
01 December 2011, 11:46 AM
Namaste,
As I'm reading this being a convert to Hinduism I can see what the OP is talking about here. There's a difference between religion and culture. I keep repeating this when people asking me questions that are obviously culture related that are obviously culture and not religious. But I hope since this was posted, which seems like a long time ago--the whole response hasn't changed. Anyways liked I said I am and American Hindu convert, so I do take some of my American culture, but I do also take the part of Hindu culture that is needed to stand as a Hindu. It isn't always easy to pick pieces of religion and culture apart from each other I won't lie it is very difficult. But we do need to keep to our roots as well as taking on a new belief as well as a new culture.

Vannakkam Jennifer: You are not alone. At least half of the regulars on this forum are Western converts or adoptives.

Aum Namasivaya

Chris
11 December 2011, 04:38 AM
Namashkar,
There are parts of Western culture that are very good. Ideals of personal freedom, particularly the freedom of speech for one. There are things that have gone seriously wrong though, and much of this is quite recent. City centres are full of drunk young people every night, fighting, vomiting in the streets.

The government responds by making alcohol even cheaper and relaxing laws on opening times (http://www.sirc.org/publik/binge_drinking.shtml). The truth is they are in the pockets of the alcohol industry (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8671581/Alcohol-advisory-body-stacked-with-drinks-industry-lobbyists.html), who make major donations to political parties.

The attitude of all being part of society has been replaced by the pure capitalist "out for yourself only" view, with the theory that everyone acting in self interest will maximise benefit for all.

Modern British society encourages a totally non-spiritual way of life. People living for physical pleasure and to maximise the amount they earn only. This is not just a concern for those who have converted to Hinduism, the Christian churches say the same thing.

jacob622
24 January 2012, 03:57 AM
Okay sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, and I want to make a disclaimer this is not about all convert Hindus, but only SOME (A FEW) that I have noticed.

This mostly applies to non-Indian Hindus, but something I noticed about a few of them is that they tend to disregard any positive aspects of their own culture and declare that Indian culture is better.

I mean some of them say that "our western culture is horrible it's all about sex and money and materialism. Indian culture is more refined, spiritual, and wonderful." This is something that bugs me about a few converts. They try to make their birth countries and culture seem horrible and only praise India and Indian culture.

It's as if they are ashamed to be from a western culture. I'll repeat again this only about a few people I have noticed, but I don't see why they do this. I get that western culture has its problems, but so does Indian culture. And I also get that Indian culture has a lot of positive aspects, but so does western culture.


yaaa !!! you're correct buddy as i agree with your statement !!!!!

anirvan
30 January 2012, 01:50 AM
Lots have been written about altered attitude of western converted hindus,the reason may be feeling of supremacy salvation after getting all their basic existential questions and also finding the path towards salvation???

But Its much more horrible in cases of Indians converted to Christianity here in India.:mad:

Most converted Christians here start watching,listening english movies,songs though they are ignorant of alphabets of english :)girls hair become short and skirt become foreign:Cool:

Suddenly start hating we hindus like garbage worms,ignorant ghost worshiper whose only way of salvation depends upon those convert"s pity,prayer and preaching of christianity.i dnt want to write more of such un-imaginable horrible changes in them.

Is It because of their tendency to come out of inferiority comlexes. God Save these species.

Eastern Mind
30 January 2012, 08:10 AM
Lots have been written about altered attitude of western converted hindus,the reason may be feeling of supremacy salvation after getting all their basic existential questions and also finding the path towards salvation???

But Its much more horrible in cases of Indians converted to Christianity here in India.:mad:

Most converted Christians here start watching,listening english movies,songs though they are ignorant of alphabets of english :)girls hair become short and skirt become foreign:Cool:

Suddenly start hating we hindus like garbage worms,ignorant ghost worshiper whose only way of salvation depends upon those convert"s pity,prayer and preaching of christianity.i dnt want to write more of such un-imaginable horrible changes in them.

Is It because of their tendency to come out of inferiority comlexes. God Save these species.

Vannakkam: Anirvan, I concur, and I don't know why. The Indian immigrants here, (mostly from Kerala) are really zealous, and practically nasty. I've noticed that the more recent a convert is, usually the more talkative they are on it. The just need to tell everybody it seems, like a little kid seeing the mountains or riding a bike for the first time.. "Look, Mommy," syndrome. Maybe this phenomena is similar, but on a wider cultural or community level.

One example difference is most western Christians can go to a Hindu wedding ... like for colleagues and such, but the Indian Christians just refuse to go.

Aum Namasivaya

cuddledkitty
18 April 2012, 11:28 PM
well i myself wouldnt say this as I am Japanese and Egyptian and acquired a british accent lol. When i get up i dont worship Surya i worship Amaterasu the Japanese equivalent, when its a visible moon i worship Tsukuyomi not Chandra. So i definitely think my culture is superior :D

Utziga
25 April 2012, 12:42 AM
I know that a lot of times, when people are learning about a new culture, they become very enthusiastic and get really into it and they sort of become..embroiled? In all this new stuff they're learning to the point where they just forget all the great things about their own culture to explore another.