Mind which meditates

[Tirisilex]

What faculty of mind meditates? has attention.. focus?

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Tirisilex:

I think there is greater variance from person to person on this topic than on any other. Meditation can mean prayer, relaxation, concentration, etc., depending on who you ask. For some it can be synonymous with thinking. So when someone says, "I have to meditate on that," What they are often saying is, "I want to think about that a bit."

Certainly one component is will, as even keeping one's attention on such things as keyboarding here on HDF takes some will.

So before I say anything, can I ask you what your definition of meditation is?

Aum Namasivaya

[Tirisilex]

Meditation: Keeping ones attention on one particular thing.

[rkpande]

Meditation: Keeping ones attention on one particular thing.

I think you mean concentration.
in meditation you try not to think at all.
a state of no-mind. withdrawal of senses. if your senses are not in contact with externals or internals than its a state of smadhi.
regards
rk

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Tirisilex:

I'm more with rkpande, but have little no experential knowledge. My Guru taught that attention is just the first step and concentration is the second step. Meditation is beyond that. He described it as being 'more alert than walking on a tightrope," . So as I suggested, the definitions would vary. The solar plexus chakra (manipura I think, but I forget the names) is the chakra of will, and it is from there that awareness gets the energy to be driven inward. As far as the mind goes, it would have to be the superconscious or intuitive mind that your awareness is in during meditation. But that is different than your original question. So from this deeper definition of meditation, it perhaps isn't done by the mind at all.

Because of my main focus being that of a bhaktar, the closest thing I have been to it is from the vibrations during darshan at some particularly strong temple. At this time I do sort of forget about ordinary consciousness, and 'bliss out' for lack of better words.

Aum Namasivaya

[Onkara]

What faculty of mind meditates? has attention.. focus?

The intellect above all. Once the Self (consciousness) becomes known to the Self (consciousness) then it rests in itSelf (consciousness).

Here are some verses from the Bhagavad Gita which allude to the fact that Intellect is that which "controls" attention through the mind. Both of which become stable. You may probably find more references and deeper analysis in commentary and other sources too.

Above the body are senses;
Above the senses is the mind;
Above the mind is intellect;
Above the intellect: the self. 3.42

Thus, knowing Him Who is above
The intellect, and restraining
The self by the Self, then destroy
That enemy, that foe: desire. 3.43

With intellect absorbed in That,
Whose self is That, steadfast in That,
And whose consummation is That,
Purified, are freed from rebirth. 5.12


With intellect set in patience,
With the mind fastened on the self,
He gains quietude by degrees:
Let him not think of any thing. 6.25

[saidevo]

namaste Tirisilex and others.

Let me try to elaborate on this topic, if I may.

• As we are aware, manas--mind, is a complex antaHkaraNa--inner organ, comprising four parts with their own functions: ahaMkAra--I-ness, buddhi--wisdom, chitta--storage of vAsanas--impressions, and manas--processing mind (lower and higher).

• The four parts are not watertight compartments but only four ways of functioning and role playing of the complex inner organ which is mind. Examples:

‣ the freewill is represented by ahaMkAra. Although it is assertive in nature, it just starts an action or thought and stays behind. For example, we don't use our freewill with every step when walking, but call it to stop walking. Similarly, once we start thinking a thought, we continue by association and reflection and involuntarily call our freewill when moving on to another distinct thought.

‣ buddhi speaks its vision of wisdom through mana-sAkShi--conscience; it presents the intellect of a person, the ability to perceive the relationships and differences and thus arrive at the share of right and wrong in actions.

‣ chitta is not a static storage but a dynamic hard-disk (as it were) teeming with impressions sinking in and popping out in the two states of existence, jAgrat--waking, and svapna--dream-sleep. In suShupti--deep sleep, it gets completely switched off, along with its companion parts of the mind.

‣ manas is the field of awareness and interaction. It is a virtual KurukShetra where dharma struggles to overcome the forces of adharma. Human mind in most of the times bahir-vRtta--occupied with external objects. Even when a person deeply contemplates on some worldly thoughts and ideas, such as in our office work, the connection is outward to the world.

**********

In Patanjali maharShi's AShTAngga Yoga, dhyAna--meditation, lies in between dhAraNa--concentration, and samAdhi--state of oneness with the source. He says in his 'Yoga darshanam':

tatra pratyayaikatAnatA dhyAnam ||3.2||

An unbroken flow of knowledge to that object is dhyAnam.--3.2

SvAmi VivekAnanda comments on this verse:

The mind tries to think of one object, to hold itself to one particular spot, as the top of the head, the heart, etc., and if the mind succeeds in receiving the sensations only through that part of the body, and through no other part, that would be dhAraNa, and when the mind succeeds in keeping itself in that state for some time it is called dhyAna (meditation).

In this way, dhyAna--meditation, commences with dhAraNa--concentration, on one object/thought/mantra/image, and progresses towards its destination, which is samAdhi.

Thus, IMHO, it is the manas part of the inner organ that runs the single thread of one thought, strengthening its awareness by consciously shutting out of all other interferences--pre-emptive single-tasking in IT parlance. In fruition of its arduous efforts, the entire field of manas is filled with the Ananda--bliss, when samAdhi is attained.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

RK writes,

I think you mean concentration. In meditation you try not to think at all.
a state of no-mind. withdrawal of senses. if your senses are not in contact with externals or internals than its a state of smadhi.
And herein we find the pickle, this notion of trying.
Trying = effort = mind engagement = keeps the mind on the surface level of awareness. The mind is not so much interested in discipline.
( look to any young child and their attention span).


What then does this mind want? It is looking for more. But more what ? Just more. It is looking for those fields of existence
that gives it more enjoyment. So the senses go from smell to smell, touch to touch, sight to sight, in search of this more.

So , to calm the mind, to bring even-ness RK also suggests samādhi ( which is perfect even-ness) , one needs some approach some ~technique~ or upāya¹.
It is the upāya (some like to spell upāyae) that assists the aspirant. It, if well designed and used properly brings discipline to the mind over time.

Now one thinks , discipline? Are you controlling or reprimanding the mind? No, this is not the case. Over time the 'discipline' is the mind becomes concentrated , one-pointed.
It occurs during one's practice. See my point? The ~discipline~ is going from scattered thoughts and hopping from place to place to that of single thought and this takes one
within and deposits the aspirant into samādhi , in which there are 2 kinds. We can leave that for another post.

The key is to get the right approach for the right person... hence the qualified teacher.

praṇām

words
upāya - that by which one reaches their goal.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

I wrote


Over time the 'discipline' is the mind becomes concentrated , one-pointed.
Think of a child and how you may get its attention in a pleasant way. We may offer them a cookie, then the mind ( of the child) goes from being scattered to that of being focused.

Now the child is older. S/he is sitting doing her homework and all of a sudden the smell of chocolate-chip cookies from the kitchen fills the air. The mind of the young adult ( via the nose) goes to this smell. This smell is much more expansive, more rewarding ( for the time being) then the homework assignment.

This is the nature of the mind. It is attracted to more, in this case a more fragrant smell of the cookies. Yet the mind becomes focused on this wonderful smell. It consumes the mind for that moment.

Like that, a upāya¹ can be experienced. That it can bring this focus to one's mind... it becomes disciplined. In many cases, the mind awaits for the next time this upāya may come again. This is called practice.

So this mind, as fleeting as the wind ( says arjuna) can be tamed.

praṇām

words
upāya - technique; a way or means.

[rkpande]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

RK writes,

And herein we find the pickle, this notion of trying.
Trying = effort = mind engagement = keeps the mind on the surface level of awareness. The mind is not so much interested in discipline.
( look to any young child and their attention span).


to quote yogin swataymarama from hyp,'the mind, like an elephant habituated to wander in the garden of enjoyments, is capable of being controlled by the sharp goad of anahata nada.'(one of the upaya of entering samadhi)
"controlled by the sharp goad" is it not forced disciplining,
i may tell by my days in army that we discipline a soldier by putting him in repeated cycle of drill till a certain thing becomes part of his habit, involuntary reaction to a command. and then discipline comes in trying and trying till it becomes part of you.
so is it with mind, its dicipline, rather forced dicipline at that, like with sharp goad.

regards
rk

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté RK


to 'the mind, like an elephant...

Speaking of elephants ...

Another upāya - technique, for managing the mind is via the breath.

' As lions, elephants and tigers are tamed very slowly and cautiously, so would prāṇa be brought under control very slowly in gradation measured according to one's capacity and physical limitations '
Haṭha Yoga Pradipīkā - chapter 2, 16th śloka


We know that prāṇa is part of our daily life support. The wise say we breathe 21,600 times a day (+/-). This breathing is called prāṇāna प्राणन- breathing, respiration.

Some also may practice prāṇāyāma - we know as the regulation of the breath. Prāṇāyāma is a method to control the breath/life force, but at the same time āyāma, to extend it.
The ultimate extension is perfect balance, the center or mādhya, of breath-and-no-breath.

It is said as prāṇa goes, so do the senses. He or she that manages/ befriends prāṇa is able to manage and control the various dimensions of prāṇa - the mind, taste, touch, etc.

The first 4 upāyae's found in the vijñāna bhairava¹ tantra offer breath approaches.


praṇām

words and references

Vijñāna bhairava - the conversation between śakti and śiva. This is from the Rudrayāmala Tantra.
vijñāna is vi+jñāna: vi is to discern, distinction + jñāna is wisdom, knowledge.
bhairava - more in-depth explanation of Bhairava can be found at this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17892&postcount=52 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17892&postcount=52)

[jasdir]

What faculty of mind meditates? has attention.. focus?

"LOVE" in the mind has attention focus.When anybody is in "LOVE" than there is no need to create any attention for meditation forcefully, Attention appears automatically.