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Tirisilex
24 October 2010, 09:03 PM
As taught by Sri Poomaprajna

http://www.tatvavada.org/eng/

Emancipation = We forget ourselves in the process of loving God in devotional service.. We then enjoy our natural and Beautiful Personality.

According to Dvaita There are 5 Points..

1 Difference between Jiva and Krishna
2 Between Matter and God
3 Among Individual souls. (They are seperate beings)
4 Between Jiva and Matter
5 Among various types of matter..

My point is with the 3rd part. Souls are Individual. If we forget who we are how do we relate to the other souls? If I have no way to present myself how do I act when I forget who I am? I just seems to me that it contradicts the Dualism of God and Other Jivas. Are we dual or not? I mean it sounds like liberation is like Alzheimers..

Tirisilex
24 October 2010, 09:16 PM
The Path of Perfection by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Page 171 "...We worship God as He is and retain our separate identity eternally in order to serve Him."

yajvan
24 October 2010, 10:27 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



Another view of emancipation, mokṣa, liberation is not so much freedom from things but the total association (saṃghaṭṭa¹) with the Supreme, with anuttara, the ultimate Reality.

It is uccāra-rahitam vastu or that Reality that is totally devoid of utterance - indescribable, say the wise.

praṇām

words

saṃghaṭṭa -embrace;union

yajvan
25 October 2010, 03:33 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

I wrote,

Another view of emancipation, mokṣa, liberation is not so much freedom from things but the total association (saṃghaṭṭaš) with the Supreme, with anuttara, the ultimate Reality

There are some that believe that this experience of samāveśa (absorption) into the Divine only occurs in samādhi. This may be true pending one's progress.
Yet when the total infusion of the Divine is one's daily experience this 'embrace' with the Supreme is there during active hours (eyes open), or resting hours (eyes closed).
It is said in kaśmir śaivism that one then acquires pure I consciousness ( akṛtrima-aham-vimarśa).

praṇām

words
saṃghaṭṭa -embrace;union
samāveśa - , absorption into; meeting , penetration

Kumar_Das
20 November 2010, 08:52 PM
^ this post of Yajvanji is beyond value. (Unfortunately I can't rep him)

I can personally testify that. Its interesting to note that Kashmiri Shaivites also share this.


As taught by Sri Poomaprajna

http://www.tatvavada.org/eng/

Emancipation = We forget ourselves in the process of loving God in devotional service.. We then enjoy our natural and Beautiful Personality.

According to Dvaita There are 5 Points..

1 Difference between Jiva and Krishna
2 Between Matter and God
3 Among Individual souls. (They are seperate beings)
4 Between Jiva and Matter
5 Among various types of matter..

My point is with the 3rd part. Souls are Individual. If we forget who we are how do we relate to the other souls? If I have no way to present myself how do I act when I forget who I am? I just seems to me that it contradicts the Dualism of God and Other Jivas. Are we dual or not? I mean it sounds like liberation is like Alzheimers..

The fact of the matter is that those who are truly realizing God and going onwards in the "straight" path. They start losing a grip of the world the average person is conditioned to.

On everyday life, for the average person, there is a "normalcy", certain standards which everyone has adapted to and take for granted. They operate within this framework of mind and being.

When you really acquire enlightenment, you don't see and feel the way everyone else does. Everything is jnana based. And every affair is about profound insight. Nothing in the world actually matters much anymore except for engaging in the "straight" path.

Our gross identities and psyches that have been forced upon us and we ourselves accept without being able to reject merely evaporate.

The only awareness one has is that he is the servant of the Supreme who is merely worshipping the Supreme. The distinction exists, wherein one is directly experiencing worship and knows the Supreme as Supreme.

Yes this "forgetting" is real and may be considered to be dangerous when you think about it.

You actually do "forget" whatever psyches that has been impressed upon you. Thats why when you waver in your Sadhana, it comes back again.

In everyday life we are bound by the affairs which we are to address. And this can keep on going forever if we are immortal. There would be no point to any of this if we were immortal. There is no point even as being sheer mortals.

Thats why sannyasa is prescribed. You quit this exhausting and futile worldy life and just continue with your spirituality by finding yourself an environment without any distractions to stay in.

yajvan
20 November 2010, 09:29 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté kumar_das

you offer,

When you really acquire enlightenment, you don't see and feel the way everyone else does. Everything is jnana based. And every affair is about profound insight
It was rare when my teacher would ever talk about his personal experience on his own accord. People would ask what is it like ? This living Reality at all times?


He would say, it is like being at home everywhere you go. This has taught me one dimenston of really growing... feeling this comfort in all places and conditions. I see clearly now how this applies. How so?

It is said (in kaśmir śaivism) This Supreme independent (svātantrya) state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form. But the form of what one asks. It is the 'form' of everything.

This implies that solid ( body) or spiritual ( non-body) , material or non-material however subtle, has this form. It is the essence of everything, and this is the Supreme, Brahman.

If one is of this awareness, of the Being, where can one be that is not home, in this form?

praṇām

Kumar_Das
21 November 2010, 08:11 AM
^ this post of Yajvanji is beyond value. (Unfortunately I can't rep him)

I can personally testify that. Its interesting to note that Kashmiri Shaivites also share this.



The fact of the matter is that those who are truly realizing God and going onwards in the "straight" path. They start losing a grip of the world the average person is conditioned to.

On everyday life, for the average person, there is a "normalcy", certain standards which everyone has adapted to and take for granted. They operate within this framework of mind and being.

When you really acquire enlightenment, you don't see and feel the way everyone else does. Everything is jnana based. And every affair is about profound insight. Nothing in the world actually matters much anymore except for engaging in the "straight" path.

Our gross identities and psyches that have been forced upon us and we ourselves accept without being able to reject merely evaporate.

The only awareness one has is that he is the servant of the Supreme who is merely worshipping the Supreme. The distinction exists, wherein one is directly experiencing worship and knows the Supreme as Supreme.

Yes this "forgetting" is real and may be considered to be dangerous when you think about it.

You actually do "forget" whatever psyches that has been impressed upon you. Thats why when you waver in your Sadhana, it comes back again.

In everyday life we are bound by the affairs which we are to address. And this can keep on going forever if we are immortal. There would be no point to any of this if we were immortal. There is no point even as being sheer mortals.

Thats why sannyasa is prescribed. You quit this exhausting and futile worldy life and just continue with your spirituality by finding yourself an environment without any distractions to stay in.

Going through with what I had said.

Let's not forget that even the Abrahamic religion which tend to take on a more strongly ideological approach that seeks to make a person part of the usual system. Active in every day society. Muhammad had been "meditating" alone in a cave for a very long time before he (supposedly) acquired revelation. And then commenced with his (supposed) prophethood.

In the Bible as well, (if we are to consider Jesus even having existed let alone much of what it apparently has to say about him is to any extent credible), a large portion of Jesus' life is blank. It only speaks of his childhood and then his ministry.

In Vedic tradition, the Rishis did spend time off to develop themselves.

For me this is an evolutionary component. Wherein our primitive traits are tamed through focusing on the Divine, and physical-psychological endurance is improved. Its overcoming hardships, struggling by taking only the Divine as one's strength.

Evolution is advancement and survival. I think the way of the Sages is to gear towards a certain type of evolution.

They must have had foresight. Which is why they were so highly critical of materialism. Everything in this modern world is materialism. Materialism, wanting attention from people, engaging in useless petty talk and indulging the senses on a weak level (blasting tasteless music from **** genres) are what the masses are addicted and enslaved to today. Which are nothing less than idolatry.

grames
27 November 2011, 02:47 AM
Dear,



My point is with the 3rd part. Souls are Individual. If we forget who we are how do we relate to the other souls? If I have no way to present myself how do I act when I forget who I am? I just seems to me that it contradicts the Dualism of God and Other Jivas. Are we dual or not? I mean it sounds like liberation is like Alzheimers..

It is the sublime message...

You relate to other 'Jivas" as per His will...
Other Jivas relate to you as per His will..
You utilize the Jadas as per His will...
Jada will be available to you for your utilization as per His will...

He is the connecting thread of this grand garland and He connects all together nicely where everything, everyone act towards attaining their ultimate original status of Serving Him provided they are eligible.

So, jiva forgetting itself is not and should not be understood as "Jiva loosing its identity" and it is only to indicate that, the desire of that jiva, functioning of the jiva is only for His service and nothing for itself.

Kumar_Das
01 January 2013, 03:43 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté kumar_das

you offer,

It was rare when my teacher would ever talk about his personal experience on his own accord. People would ask what is it like ? This living Reality at all times?


He would say, it is like being at home everywhere you go. This has taught me one dimenston of really growing... feeling this comfort in all places and conditions. I see clearly now how this applies. How so?

It is said (in kaśmir śaivism) This Supreme independent (svātantrya) state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form. But the form of what one asks. It is the 'form' of everything.

This implies that solid ( body) or spiritual ( non-body) , material or non-material however subtle, has this form. It is the essence of everything, and this is the Supreme, Brahman.

If one is of this awareness, of the Being, where can one be that is not home, in this form?

praṇām

Hari Om,

I believe your Guru had achieved a level of enlightenment where he has the constant awareness of God's presence. "Being at home everywhere you go".

Also going by what this emminent Guru has said. I can also tell that on the higher levels Advaitins and Dvaitins are in absolute agreement. We experience similar spiritual developments. So the difference between Monism and Monotheism is quite arbitary. Anyways that's irrelevant and off-topic.

Thanks for the post.

May God grant us His grace and mercy in our aspirations to recognize Him(realizing the Truth)