PDA

View Full Version : Maya?



Tirisilex
26 October 2010, 07:40 PM
Is Maya Illusion according to ISKCON? Is reality seen as an illusion like how the Buddhists see reality as Illusion??

upasaka
26 October 2010, 11:13 PM
Is Maya Illusion according to ISKCON? Is reality seen as an illusion like how the Buddhists see reality as Illusion??

Not all Buddhists see reality as an illusion, in fact many don't. I am a practicing Theravada Buddhist and we do not believe the Buddha taught that reality is an illusion. The Pali Canon, the Tipitaka, supports our view. The Buddha taught that mind and matter really exist.

I do not mean to derail from the topic of ISKCON, just wanted to correct the idea that all Buddhists believe the world is an illusion. :)

Tirisilex
27 October 2010, 11:04 AM
I was taught according to Vajrayana.. I did not know that Theravada had a different view on this.

upasaka
27 October 2010, 01:30 PM
I was taught according to Vajrayana.. I did not know that Theravada had a different view on this.

No problem. There is some variety in what the different Buddhist schools teach, ranging from the Theravada position that mind and matter are different yet mutually condition each other, to the Zen position that mind-only exists. As you said, Vajrayana presents a more illusory view of reality.

atmarama108
05 November 2010, 03:03 AM
Is Maya Illusion according to ISKCON? Is reality seen as an illusion like how the Buddhists see reality as Illusion??

Maya is illusion in the sense that it is temporary. Real but temporary. True reality is eternal...

Gopal Dasa
05 November 2010, 09:25 PM
To add on to what Atmarama said, things in this world are illusions because they really arnt here. What I mean by that is, is happiness here is an illusion. You cant find happiness here, but you can find it in the spiritual world. So in this case, its like a mirage. It just appears to be here. Also, like Atmarama said, its unreal in that its imperminant. But I think that the best word would be relative. This world is relative, the spiritual world is Absolute.

yajvan
06 November 2010, 12:30 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Here is another view that may perhaps contribute to the conversation...

What is this māyā ( there are many posts on this subject) ? It is rooted ( √ ) in mā or measuring and this 'yā' is restraining .
Yet many say māyā is the notion of illusion. How are these two i.e. illusion and measuring/restraining , connected?

Māyā is the illusion that the Infinite can be measured out or restrained. It is the idea that this Infinite Being that we experience as the universe
( and what it contains) is made of parts, finite items, zillions of them, but still finite , within boundaries. It is the boundless measured into the boundaries ,
this is the illusion of avidya ( ignorance).

In ignorance māyā drives individuality; yet one that is fully realized, this māyā becomes the joy of diversity on how many ways this
Being expresses itself in Fullness. Then one 'sees' sarvaṁ sarvātamkam or everything is everything else. The unity of creation.
In kaśmir śaivism this transformation of māyā (of limits) becomes the play and display of śakti.

praṇām

upasaka
07 November 2010, 05:00 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Here is another view that may perhaps contribute to the conversation...

What is this māyā ( there are many posts on this subject) ? It is rooted ( √ ) in mā or measuring and this 'yā' is restraining .
Yet many say māyā is the notion of illusion. How are these two i.e. illusion and measuring/restraining , connected?

Māyā is the illusion that the Infinite can be measured out or restrained. It is the idea that this Infinite Being that we experience as the universe
( and what it contains) is made of parts, finite items, zillions of them, but still finite , within boundaries. It is the boundless measured into the boundaries ,
this is the illusion of avidya ( ignorance).

In ignorance māyā drives individuality; yet one that is fully realized, this māyā becomes the joy of diversity on how many ways this
Being expresses itself in Fullness. Then one 'sees' sarvaṁ sarvātamkam or everything is everything else. The unity of creation.
In kaśmir śaivism this transformation of māyā (of limits) becomes the play and display of śakti.

praṇām


Are you saying that the Hindu concept of Maya means that our understanding of the external world is illusory, not that the world itself is illusory? Thank you for your contributions here. :)

yajvan
07 November 2010, 07:15 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté upasaka,


Are you saying that the Hindu concept of Maya means that our understanding of the external world is illusory, not that the world itself is illusory? Thank you for your contributions here. :)

Let me see if I can explain a bit better. First I am not a fan of the word illusion but use it due the notion that māyā has been coupled to it over the years,
hence it paints one into a corner.

The world, meaning universe, is infinite and whole, yet we see duality everywhere. This whole universe comes from the Supreme (anuttara) some like to call sivabhaṭṭāra, others brahman, and others perhaps viṣṇu.
IF the universe is ~illusion~ then from where it comes from is part and parcel part of the illusion too, and this is not possible with the Supreme.
The universe comes from the emanation of the Supreme, from That (tad-ekam, That One). To say the universe is an illusion is to suggest 'That' is an illusion.
That cannot be so , as this universe is none other then this Being. But in our ignorance we see duality, differences, due to the blemishes within our self ( some call moha). With this ignorance in tact our vision is impaired and we see only diversity.
We are within saṅkoca¹ (limitation) that comes with ignorance. But ignorance of what? Our own Self which is the same as the Supreme.

We are the Divine in condensed form. When we come to experience this fully then there is no mis-givings on what is what. Why so? One comes to the realization , one 'sees' sarvaṁ sarvātamkam or everything is everything else. The unity of creation.

You ask

Are you saying that the Hindu concept of Maya means that our understanding of the external world is illusory
I am saying we do not have 20-20 vision of what Reality is. But what to do? Kṛṣṇa informs us in the bhāgavad gītā , knowledge is the greatest purifier.
In kaśmir śaivism this is central to the teaching , knowledge and experience. Hence our understanding of the world both external and intenal is blemished and
can be corrected.

you mention ,

not that the world itself is illusory? My teacher would often say, the world is as you are.

praṇām
words
saṅkoca some write saṃkoca - limitation , restriction

upasaka
08 November 2010, 12:27 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté upasaka,



Let me see if I can explain a bit better. First I am not a fan of the word illusion but use it due the notion that māyā has been coupled to it over the years,
hence it paints one into a corner.

The world, meaning universe, is infinite and whole, yet we see duality everywhere. This whole universe comes from the Supreme (anuttara) some like to call sivabhaṭṭāra, others brahman, and others perhaps viṣṇu.
IF the universe is ~illusion~ then from where it comes from is part and parcel part of the illusion too, and this is not possible with the Supreme.
The universe comes from the emanation of the Supreme, from That (tad-ekam, That One). To say the universe is an illusion is to suggest 'That' is an illusion.
That cannot be so , as this universe is none other then this Being. But in our ignorance we see duality, differences, due to the blemishes within our self ( some call moha). With this ignorance in tact our vision is impaired and we see only diversity.
We are within saṅkocaš (limitation) that comes with ignorance. But ignorance of what? Our own Self which is the same as the Supreme.

We are the Divine in condensed form. When we come to experience this fully then there is no mis-givings on what is what. Why so? One comes to the realization , one 'sees' sarvaṁ sarvātamkam or everything is everything else. The unity of creation.

You ask

I am saying we do not have 20-20 vision of what Reality is. But what to do? Kṛṣṇa informs us in the bhāgavad gītā , knowledge is the greatest purifier.
In kaśmir śaivism this is central to the teaching , knowledge and experience. Hence our understanding of the world both external and intenal is blemished and
can be corrected.

you mention ,
My teacher would often say, the world is as you are.

praṇām
words
saṅkoca some write saṃkoca - limitation , restriction

Thank you so much for clarifying this! I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. I think I understand what you are saying; maya does not mean the world lacks existence, it means we are not experiencing the world as it truly is according to Hinduism.

orlando
24 December 2010, 06:22 PM
I quote the original question:


Is Maya Illusion according to ISKCON? Is reality seen as an illusion like how the Buddhists see reality as Illusion??

The original question of this thread asks what is Maya according to ISKCON's philosophy