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yajvan
28 October 2010, 05:24 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Kṛṣṇa (some prefer kṛṣṇ) informs us in the 4th chapter , 16th śloka , bhāgavad gītā -
What is action (karma) and what is inaction akarma thus (iti) even the wise (kavi) are bewildered (mohitāḥ or moha) on this matter.

The wise (kavi¹) know it is the 3 guna's that perform all the mutivarious actions within creation. The kavi also knows
the Self, their very Being, is beyond the touch of the 3 guna's. Yet the Lord says this is insufficient, and even they, the kavi, are bewildered ( moha).

What are your thoughts on this matter... what finer points do we need to know , that the wise need to know?

praṇām

words

kavi - gifted with insight , intelligent , knowing , enlightened , wise , sensible , prudent
moha - bewilderment , perplexity ; some use the defintion to also mean wonder , amazement

yajvan
28 October 2010, 09:08 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast

I wrote,

Yet the Lord says this is insufficient, and even they, the kavi, are bewildered ( moha).
My teacher has said , gaining freedom/liberation from action i.e. from the 3 guna's is one thing; gaining full knowledge about action and inaction is quite another.

praṇām

kd gupta
29 October 2010, 12:15 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast

I wrote,

My teacher has said , gaining freedom/liberation from action i.e. from the 3 guna's is one thing; gaining full knowledge about action and inaction is quite another.

praṇām
Namaste Yajvanji
The thought is very encouraging but tough to think . The almighty nature [ Say mahavishnu and not maharudra as I suppose Atanuji is not watching :) ] keeps everybody guessing .
Rudra is tired to keep the earth clean and he is not much bothered about brahma creating the creatures but this Vishnu is naughty enough to nurse them .

The wise thinking shall be.
Samam sarveshu bhooteshu tishthantam parameshwaram;
Vinashyatswavinashyantam yah pashyati sa pashyati.
He sees, who sees the Supreme Lord, existing equally in all beings, the unperishing
within the perishing.
Prakrityaiva cha karmaani kriyamaanaani sarvashah;
Yah pashyati tathaatmaanam akartaaram sa pashyati.
He sees, who sees that all actions are performed by Nature alone and that the Self is
actionless.

sunyata07
29 October 2010, 06:00 AM
Namaste Yajvan,


My teacher has said , gaining freedom/liberation from action i.e. from the 3 guna's is one thing; gaining full knowledge about action and inaction is quite another.


I am a little bemused by your guru's teaching. Would not gaining the full knowledge of action and inaction eventually lead to freedom from it? I had thought this would be the natural course of things. This is not a rhetorical question; I ask with all respect.

Om namah Shivaya

upsydownyupsy mv ss
29 October 2010, 08:34 AM
hari? o?
~~~~~~

namasté


K???a (some prefer k???) informs us in the 4th chapter , 16th sloka , bhagavad gita -
What is action (karma) and what is inaction akarma thus (iti) even the wise (kavi) are bewildered (mohita? or moha) on this matter.

The wise (kavi¹) know it is the 3 guna's that perform all the mutivarious actions within creation. The kavi also knows
the Self, their very Being, is beyond the touch of the 3 guna's. Yet the Lord says this is insufficient, and even they, the kavi, are bewildered ( moha).

What are your thoughts on this matter... what finer points do we need to know , that the wise need to know?

pra?am

words

* kavi - gifted with insight , intelligent , knowing , enlightened , wise , sensible , prudent
* moha - bewilderment , perplexity ; some use the defintion to also mean wonder , amazement




hari? o?
~~~~~~

namasté

I wrote,

My teacher has said , gaining freedom/liberation from action i.e. from the 3 guna's is one thing; gaining full knowledge about action and inaction is quite another.

pra?am

Yes, yajvanji, I think and I feel your guru is 100% correct, even though Sunyata feels else. Knowing about how to drive in a road is actually different from actually driving in the road . You can't move to your office by just knowing how to drive your car, you have to drive. Knowing that we have money is different from having the ability to use it, what if the national emergency is declared and all the money in SBI in our name goes to the control of the government It is like saying 1st grade and Kindergarten are same. They belong to same category, but different stages sunyataji, hope I'm clear, I respect your view, but this is my view. I and you know the source of Karma, but I don't know how to come out of it. I am bewildered too. I even know wherein the source's defeat lies. The thing I don't know is.... How do I make it possible to do something, which is not under my control. All I know is that I should Trust TAT, with intense devotion and do my duties, attain knowledge and break this bond. I want to break karmic bonds through karma itself, for this I pray to him, to strengthen me. Kavis are bewildered, but not paramabhaktahs like prahlada, markandeya, kannapa, etc. They just did Yagnya. They summoned the fire of devotion, they jumped into that fire and burnt themselves. When completely surrendered at the lord's feet, it is said that even the lord himself can't put us into indulging us in karmas and becomes ties up with our love. Shiva could not protect the laws (Yama and Kala, i.e, time,) he created, when Markandeya completely surrendered himself to Shiva. There is this story I was told. Arjuna comes from the forest with Pashupathastra and questions Bheema, what he could do, taunting him that he was stronger than Bheema, and that Arjuna was more favoured by god in all his forms. Bheema, silently stood up, "Oh lord Bheema, Oh Ugra, Oh rudra, Oh Hara, Oh Shiva, I am not able to tolerate the insults of my brother. I ask you to come here at once and grant me a boon, if not, I am going to smah my head." Saying this he threw his mace upwards. "Now come here and grant me this boon, before the mace falls on my head, breaking it in 2, delivering death to me." Bheema was sure of his devotion. Instantly to Arjuna's surprise, stood Pashupathi. He spoke, "My son, I cannot bare seeing you in pain, your love is too immense for me. Ask whatever boon pleases you." Bheema asked the boon of getting Rudra in his body for a single battle in his life (Kurukshetra, against the Kuru prince, how could he kill his cousin, he cared too much, rudra had strenghtened his heart that day). Thus, we see the role of devotion and that this is required along with knowledge to see the self and get closer to Moksha.



kd gupta ji. atanu ji may be is not watching, dont worry, I wont pm him, but I am watching, your statement has irritated me a bit, honestly. But still, you have done it out of devotion to god :hug:. It seems ur differentiating the 2. Its not ur fault. Rudra becomes a beggar, begs and drinks visha, which is your Karma, he becomes Vishakantha. Krishna steals 'butter called karma' from you. Now, tell me, are the 2 different? The same work is seen as 2 different things, by 2 different devotees. If u have truely understood 'Narayana' you will understand 'Manjunatha' too. Karma dissolution is Moksha, do you know what Rudra means, it means destroyer of Karma, or the one who gives Moksha. One steals, the other begs. Two different clothing. One casual home outfit, the other office uniform.

yajvan
29 October 2010, 03:52 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté sunyata07.


Namaste Yajvan,
I am a little bemused by your guru's teaching. Would not gaining the full knowledge of action and inaction eventually lead to freedom from it? I had thought this would be the natural course of things. This is not a rhetorical question; I ask with all respect. Om namah Shivaya

This is a most appropriate and excellent question. One can be possessed of the SELF, yet not know the intimate knowledge of the differences in what is action and inaction. Action we are suggesting is 'right' action, proper action.

kd gupta offers the following:


Prakrityaiva cha karmaani kriyamaanaani sarvashah;
Yah pashyati tathaa’tmaanam akartaaram sa pashyati.
He sees, who sees that all actions are performed by Nature alone and that the Self is actionless.
One observation/insight is understanding that the 3 guna's ( kd gupta uses the word nature) is ultimately the sources of action, of doing.
One could be be filled with the Self, and yet not comprehend this point.

Yet the question that aways comes up is what is inaction vs. action? Kṛṣṇa informs us in the 4th chapter , 18th śloka, that he who sees action in inaction and inaction in action , is wise amongst men.

This suggests even while the senses and the mind are engaged in the field of action, the wise are anchored in the Self, in Being - the field of perfect silence in the mist of all this action that occurs via the 3 guna's.
The point is profound - one's association is no longer with the field of activity, but with the field of Silence.

Yet there is even more to this - the one that really 'sees' perceives the ever present Being though-out the whole field of creation ( action ). This Being is ever silent and hence inaction residing in action.


Now this whole notion of action, one that is united with Being, etc. is further developed in śloka's 19-23. They round out the knowledge.
These verses and insights just may not dawn on the wise without the teaching. What are some of the key ideas ?

The one that is united with the Supreme, all actions are burnt up in the fire of knowledge - him the knowers of reality call wise
depending on nothing, even though fully engaged in action he does not act at all ( this is quite profound, no?)
he/she expects nothing and incurs no sin
balanced in success and failure
he/she acts for the sake of yajña ( offering) all actions are entirely dissolved.But does this last point 'for the sake of yajña ' suggest that this person is physically doing pūja all the time? Yes and no, not in the way we think of it. One absorbed in the Supreme, each action is an offering to the Supreme, each smell, sight, taste, etc. Since there is no binding influence of any action , each activity is like an an offering directly to the Supreme since there is no division being the person, Being, Supreme.


This is the wisdom that lies within knowing action and inaction.

praṇām

kd gupta
29 October 2010, 11:09 PM
Namaste
Gita ch 3/18 tells that all actions excluding 3 should be abandoned , means inactions are compulsorily abandoned . See what ramcharitmanas says.
sura nara asura naga khaga mahi, more anucara kaha kou nahi.
khara dusana mohi sama balavanta, tinhahi ko marai binu bhagavanta.
sura ranjana bhanjana mahi bhara, jau bhagavanta linha avatara.
tau mai jai bairu hathi karau , prabhu sara prana taje bhava tarau.
hoihi bhajanu na tamasa deha, man krama bacana mantra driha eha.
jau nara rupa bhupa suta kou, harihau nari jiti rana dou. ,,aranyakanda bet doha 22-23 .
.Among gods, human beings, demons, Nagas and birds , He [ Ravna ] thought, .there is none
who can withstand my servants. As for Khara and Dusana [ his brothers ] , they were as powerful as
myself; who else could have killed them, had it not been the Lord [ the almighty ] Himself? If therefore
the Lord Himself, the Delighter of the gods and the Reliever of Earth.s burden, has
appeared on earth, I will go and resolutely fight with him and cross the ocean of mundane
existence by falling to His arrows. Adoration is out of question in this (demoniac) body,
which is made up of the principle of ignorance, Tamasa. Therefore, such is my firm resolve
in thought, word and deed. And if they happen to be some mortal princes I shall conquer
them both in battle and carry off the bride..

See here that it is total inaction to carry off ones wife , but how this helps him again see
kaha trijta sunu rajakumari, ura sara lagata marai surari.
prabhu tate ura hatai na tehi, ehi ke hridaya basati baidehi . lankakand bet doha 98-99
Trijata [ ravna,s lady care taker ] replied : .Listen, O Princess [ sita ] : the enemy of the gods will surely die if an arrow
pierces his breast. But the Lord is careful not to strike him there; for He knows that
Videha.s Daughter (Yourself) abides in his heart.

So here you find that the inaction of ravna was helping him live .

Next time we discuss with vedic reference .

yajvan
30 October 2010, 12:46 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

kd gupta writes,

Namaste
Gita ch 3/18 tells that all actions excluding 3 should be abandoned , means inactions are compulsorily abandoned .

It is worthy to consider this as it causes the new reader some angst. ' How do I abandon action ? ' One then thinks I will not do this, or do that.
This is not the instruction from Kṛṣṇa, it is not abstaining from action. It is the notion of associating with your own SELF that is completely outside of the field of action.
The Self is perfect sama , sameness, unchanged, at rest, even-ness. No action touches this level of Being. This is being without the 3 guna's. The guna's are involved in all activity however subtle. Yet the Self is devoid of these 3.

How do we know this is the right way of viewing Kṛṣṇa's words? We only need to go to Chapter 3 of the bhāgavad gītā 4th śloka, He says (it is) not by abstaining from action does a man achieve non-action, nor by mere renunciation does he attain to perfection.

The word used by Kṛṣṇa for perfection is quite profound. The word is siddhi सिद्धि - final emancipation , perfection. Yet it also means accomplishment , performance , fulfilment , complete attainment . Kṛṣṇa is not only telling
us that perfection will not be attained but one's general accomplishments too will not be achieved by abstaining from action.

Kṛṣṇa-ji also informs us in Chapter 3, 8th śloka, niyataṁ kuru karma tvaṁ¹ - do your allotted/perscribed duty. This is the wisdom offered on varṇa (class of men , tribe , order , caste ) that includes dharma at its root dhṛ ( to uphold, support). Yet one is doing. And 'right' doing is implied.

praṇām

words

niyataṁkuru karma tvaṁ

niyataṁ - fixed , established , settled , sure , regular , invariable , positive ; disciplined , self-governed
kuru - here it is being used as doer; this would is very robust and can take us all the way the ancestor of both pāṇḍu and dhṛtarāṣṭra, not to mention the battlefield kurukṣetra.
karma - is karman which is act , action , performance, business
tvaṁ - your, thy

kd gupta
31 October 2010, 12:58 AM
Namaste
Here we are discussing : seeing action in inaction : .
I take the first vedmantra from ch 40 of yaj whose elaboration is named as Isaupanishad .
Isha vashyamidamma gridhah kasya swiddhanam .

Dont be a vulture [ vulture takes other,s left dead body ]here we can also see that Vedas prohibit meat eating left by others [ I infer that meat eating is prohibited ] . This has been said for acquiring the physical wealth , so dont take the wealth left by others and thus this hints as inaction . Now for finding action in inaction is said as Isha vashyamidam means earn with the self effort as this belongs to the almighty . [ sorry for my understandable hinglish ]

We shall try to discuss inaction in action next .

sunyata07
31 October 2010, 02:20 PM
Namaste everyone,

In my hasty reply I did not see the wisdom in your guru's words, Yajvan. I have given them some thinking over, and I think I am beginning to understand. Understanding something like a theory (even on the deepest level intellectually) and being freed from the influence of a force the theory is expositing are two separate things, even though one could potentially lead to the other with time and discipline.

Kd gutpa, I've considered your analogy and I think I am understanding what we're trying to get at with action in inaction. Do nothing and achieve everything. Following your own path, svadharma. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But how can we explain inaction in action - how is this possible? Doesn't the Lord teach that action is better than inaction? Or are we speaking of actions that are not pertaining to one's path - mindless action in which no benefit or good is achieved?

kd gupta
01 November 2010, 12:26 AM
Thanks Sunyata07 being with the discussion .
Only ved pramanas are said shabda pramanas , where mind or wisdom ceases to work beyond . Vedmantra 10/34/13 rig tells
Akshairma divvyah krishimit..manyamanah .
Dont apply your mind or wisdom to earn the money by unfair means like gambling etc , but be satisfied with the lower income done by agriculture .
Having the capacity of performing the action if one does not cross his limit , it is also termed as inaction in action . Best example is in valmiki ramayan where sita says to ravna .
O ravna I myself have power to kill you but let my husband rama tell you the lession .
Ashandeshastu ramasya.tejasah .
In ramcharitmanas, Angad the warrior of rama warns to ravna
tohi pataki mahi sena hati chaupata kari tava gavn,
tava jubatinha sameta satha janakasutahi lai javn. Doha 30 lankakand
.Dashing you to the ground, exterminating your army and laying waste your town,
O fool ravna, I would have taken away Janaka.s Daughter sita with all your wives.

Here Angad has the power to kill ravna but he does not exercise it , an example of inaction in action .

Now we shall discuss that was mahabharat an action of ,sattva raja or tama as hinted by krsn in ch 18 .

brahman
01 November 2010, 05:57 AM
Namaste everyone,

But how can we explain inaction in action - how is this possible?

Dear sunyata07,

We find ourselves in a paradoxical situation: as words and phrases can often become abstractions, trying to explain something that can’t be explained.

I found it hard to explain(to myself), on the course of my learning of Srimad Gita(1-6). Because Karma in akarma or akarma in karma is a realization-actualization, it is not an understanding at all. But certainly my limited acquaintance with accomplished people necessitates me to try demonstrating it, atleast for keen learners like you.

Sitting beside a window on a train that has stopped, just watch another train. And the truth is that when one of them starts moving, you don’t immediately realize which.

Akarma in karma is like when you keep going, you think the other train is on the move. As if you are not moving at all.

Imagine the person inside the train as the ‘self’ and the train as your ‘body’ (other than the self). What it really is ‘karma’ (you are moving), but in your deluded understanding you think you are not doing anything (akarma).

Karma in akarma is like, even when your train is not moving, you think your train is moving.


It may be helpful to visualize the situation/confusion of the train to learn the confusion that invariably pokes through the question we raised.

(Manana please, let’s not deviate from the topic, and more explanation can limit its very understanding).



Namaste everyone,

Doesn't the Lord teach that action is better than inaction?

Both action and inaction is thriguna maya त्रिगुण मया, there is nothing better than anything as ‘Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma’. Lots of Love:)

jasdir
01 November 2010, 06:36 AM
As i know their are three types of Actions:
Good Actions
Bad Actions
In Actions

Both Good & Bad Actions plays the role of Bondages for Human being

"Good Actions" are like gold chains in the legs of soul.

"Bad Actions" are like iron chains in the legs of soul.

"In Actions" does not create any bondages for humanbeing.

Gernally there is lot confusion among peoples in understanding Actions, Specially the difference between Good Action & In Actions,

"In Action" means the "good action" which is done Unconditionally just for the sake to permote "Love" for "God".

Gernally it is being said that "Service" (seva) plays the role of "In Actions" & one gets rid from bondages,

Thatswhy gernally it is being said that "Do the hide service" (Gupt Seva),

The main reason behind, Doing of "Hide Service" (Gupt Seva), Is that, One should not claim any fruit for the done service (Seva), claming the fruit changes the mode of "In Action's" into "Good Actions" to face bondages again.

But this is a big illusion,


jasdir.

yajvan
03 November 2010, 06:10 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast jasdir,




"Good Actions" are like gold chains in the legs of soul.

"Bad Actions" are like iron chains in the legs of soul.

"In Actions" does not create any bondages for humanbeing.


This is quite insightful... in both cases there are chains, one of gold the other of iron. Action is action and it brings the 'glue' of binding one to the body.

Yet many people struggle with the idea of doing no action and then run to a cave thinking this is the way - to renounce the world. Even in the cave you will eat, sleep think, have good thoughts, bad thoughts. Moving away from actions does not come with one's feet. It comes from being without the 3 guna, then one is sure to be outside the field of actions, resting in the Self, some prefer to call ātman, one's true essence.

So, if the individual is seen as a boat on the high-seas of life being pushed here-and-there by the winds of change ( the guna's) , how does one then find a safe harbor?


praṇām

jasdir
04 November 2010, 05:28 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast jasdir,



This is quite insightful... in both cases there are chains, one of gold the other of iron. Action is action and it brings the 'glue' of binding one to the body.

Yet many people struggle with the idea of doing no action and then run to a cave thinking this is the way - to renounce the world. Even in the cave you will eat, sleep think, have good thoughts, bad thoughts. Moving away from actions does not come with one's feet. It comes from being without the 3 guna, then one is sure to be outside the field of actions, resting in the Self, some prefer to call ātman, one's true essence.

So, if the individual is seen as a boat on the high-seas of life being pushed here-and-there by the winds of change ( the guna's) , how does one then find a safe harbor?


praṇām

Yajvan ji, Yes! there is need to run to the cave for doing no action,

But but but........,

That cave is inside the body itself,

The safe harbor is within the being itself.

Yajvan ji, Very nice to meet you,

Parnam by jasdir.

yajvan
04 November 2010, 07:21 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté jasdir,




That cave is inside the body itself,
The safe harbor is within the being itself.

Yajvan ji, Very nice to meet you,

Parnam by jasdir.

Yes, this is hṛdyaṁ , some call the ~heart~, yet it is the inner most part of us. Some call this guhya - covered, consealed, kept secret. When it is unknown we can call this adṛṣṭa , unexperinced, unknown. Yet what moves one closer to this 'cave' is hṛdya-bījaṁ, the right vibration that removes the limitations of the paśu ( the bound person); then we come to know jñāna-dāna ~spiritual insight~.

...and it is a pleasure to meet you also.

praṇām

yajvan
05 November 2010, 01:08 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast

With action we have those actions that have brought us to the present state that we're in. Then we have existing actions that are availble to us now. Which ones, in your assessment, is more important ? Past actions or the actions we can exercise?

praṇām

jasdir
06 November 2010, 02:14 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

With action we have those actions that have brought us to the present state that we're in. Then we have existing actions that are availble to us now. Which ones, in your assessment, is more important ? Past actions or the actions we can exercise?

praṇām

Never the less or more, One have to pay the deeds which are devloped through good or bad Actions till now,

If anybody is trying to move towards divine source, Than there is no need to worry about past, Current Actions are more important.

Current Actions can only push someone towards divine source.

But! the past deeds which we have made through our past actions plays the role of barrier or comes inbetween if we are trying to improve our current actions,

So improving current Action's is too hard subject.

Anyhow, Once getting the connection with divine source, all the past deeds burns like: As a room full of dry grass burns instantly when connecting with little fire.

So, Yajvan ji, these are my assesments,

Your,s jasdir.
parnam.

kd gupta
06 November 2010, 11:19 PM
That is a good thinking
Yatendriya manobuddhir munir mokshaparaayanah;
Vigatecchaabhaya krodho yah sadaa mukta eva sah.
With the senses, the mind and the intellect always controlled, having liberation as his
supreme goal, free from desire, fear and angerthe sage is verily liberated for ever.

Here the word MOKSHAPARAYANAH is used for two reasons , first as it is and the second as MOKSHA NARAYANAH . I have observed in one place Atanuji , saying as supreme soul is the supreme Narayana . So the discussion ends if we accept the almighty as Narayana .Similarly one is liberated if he sees the supreme beyond all actions .

And that was the reason Bhishma favoured the hastinapur king duryodhan first and Yudhister after mahabharat .

sunyata07
07 November 2010, 11:38 AM
Namaste Jasdir,

Thank you for your contributions! I have had some difficulty in trying to understand the difference between good actions and inaction, but you have explained it very nicely. Does this mean that work with desired or expected results will always result in bondage?

Also, another thing I want to ask is, if someone wants to move closer into the realm of inaction, how does he accomplish this without unconsciously moving into the realm good actions? If service for others without thought of oneself is considered inaction, how do you begin to sacrifice yourself for others with even knowing it? Surely the intent of being charitable, helpful to everyone around you will be considered good actions - auspicious and selfless, indeed, but still bondage nevertheless.

Om namah Shivaya

yajvan
07 November 2010, 06:35 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast

sunyata07 writes,



Also, another thing I want to ask is, if someone wants to move closer into the realm of inaction, how does he accomplish this without unconsciously moving into the realm good actions?

This is an excellent question, Arjuna himself asks this ( in slightly different terms), and Kṛṣṇa informs us in the 48th verse , Chapt 2 of the bhāgavad gītā : yogasthaḥ kuru karmānī- established (or steadfast) in yoga ( union) perform actions (karma).

If one is steadfast in yoga, i.e. the Union of the Divine, possessed of the SELF then there is a new set of laws that come into being. This now is called skill in action.

The results of your action no longer bind you , your actions ( doesn't matter if they are deemed ~ good, bad~) are brought to the level of His actions. You have graduated out of being pushed and pulled about by the 3 guna-s ( verse 45 ) and the mind no longer is carried away by the turbulent senses ( verse 60) and an excess of desires.


praṇām

jasdir
08 November 2010, 02:48 AM
>>>Does this mean that work with desired or expected results will always result in bondage?<<<
The Answer from my side is: YES.

But! the work done with the desire or expectation of "God" or "To see God" or "To get rid from cycle of deths & births" or "To be one with "God" never devlop any bondages for man.

Don't do the work for sake of OTHERS,
Always do the work for sake of "God" or "To see God",

There is lot of difference between doing work or service for the Sake of OTHERS or "GOD"

>>> how does he accomplish this without unconsciously moving into the realm good actions?<<<

Who are we to serve others ?
Is this possible that "God" who has created this whole universe is unable to serve such little things ?
This is a great folly, among WE peoples.
Mostly we people do the service for the Sake of others as "God" is unable to do so.

>>> how do you begin to sacrifice yourself for others with even knowing it?<<<

In hinduism three kinds of services are Recommended They are service with TAN, MAN & DHAN.
Service with TAN means: Service done with the Body
Service with DHAN means: Service done with the Money
Service with MAN means: Meditations (Samran)
To compleate the means of full SERVICE it is very necessary that all these THREE SERVICES should done parllelly,

OTHERWISE!

If somebody is doing service only with TAN(body) & MAN(meditation) it means that he or she is demanding DHAN(money) for his or her done service ,

If somebody is doing service only with MAN(meditation) & DHAN(money) it means that he or she is demanding TAN(cure for sickness of body) for his or her done service,

If somebody is doing service only with DHAN(money) & TAN(body) it means that he or she is demanding MAN(name-fame) for his or her done service

Lord Krishna Once while giving tips on Spirituality told:
Poorness, Dishonour & Sickness reciveve these three things as GIFTS while walking on the path of spirituality.

So,Sunyata ji,
I hope this will be helpfull to you, to understand my point Smartly,

Your brother Jasdir.
"Namaste"

sunyata07
08 November 2010, 10:45 AM
Namaste,

Thank you both, yes, these points are very helpful to me. I will have to read over again the second chapter of BG. Thank you also for the new terminology, Jasdir.

Om namah Shivaya