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orlando
16 November 2006, 11:25 AM
Namaste all.
Although I am interested only about the verses VII-xxv-1 and VII-xxv-2 I will copy the whole section VII of Chandogya Upanishad in order to show the context of the verses.
By http://www.advaita.it/library/chandogya.htm


VII-i-1: Om. ‘Revered sir, teach me,’ thus saying Narada approached Sanatkumara. Sanatkumara said to him, ‘What you already know, declaring that to me, be my disciple. What is beyond that I shall tell you.’ Narada said:
VII-i-2: ‘Revered sir, I know the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sama-Veda and the Atharvanas the fourth, the Itihasa-Purana as the fifth, grammar, the rules for the worship of the ancestors, mathematics, the science of portents, the science of treasures, logic, the science of ethics, etymology, the ancillary knowledge of the Vedas, the physical sciences, the science of war, the science of the stars, the science related to serpents, and the fine arts – all this I know, revered sir.’
VII-i-3: ‘Revered sir, however, I am only a knower of verbal texts, not a knower of Atman. Indeed I have heard from persons like your revered self that a knower of Atman goes beyond grief. I am in such a state of grief. May your revered self take me across it.’ Sanatkumara replied to him,’ Whatsoever you have studied here, really it is only a name.’
VII-i-4: ‘Name indeed is Rig-Veda, (so also) Yajur-Veda, Sama-Veda and the Atharvana as the fourth, the Itihasa-Purana as the fifth, grammar, the rules of the worship of the ancestors, mathematics, the science of portents, the science of treasures, logic, the science of ethics, etymology, the ancillary knowledge of the Vedas, the physical science, the science of war, the science of the stars, the science related to serpents, and the fine arts – name alone is all this. Worship the name.
VII-i-5: ‘He who worships name as Brahman becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of name, he who worships name as Brahman’. (Narada) ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than name ?’ (Sanatkumara) ‘Surely, there is something greater than name’. (Narada) ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me.’


VII-ii-1: ‘Speech surely is greater than name. Speech indeed makes us understand the Rig-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Sama-Veda, Atharvana as the fourth, Itihasa-Purana as the fifth, grammar, the rules of the worship of the ancestors, mathematics, the science of portents, the science of treasures, logic, the science of ethics, etymology, the ancillary knowledge of the Vedas, the physical science, the science of war, the science of the stars, the science related to serpents, and the fine arts – also heaven and earth, air and Akasa, water and fire, gods and men, cattle and birds, grasses and trees, beasts down to worms, flying insects and ants, merit and demerit, true and false, good and bad, pleasant and unpleasant. Verily, if speech did not exist, neither merit nor demerit would be understood, neither true nor false, neither good nor bad, neither pleasant nor unpleasant. Speech alone makes us understand all this. (Hence) worship speech.
VII-ii-2: ‘He who worships speech as Brahman becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of speech, he who worships speech as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than speech ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than speech’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-iii-1: ‘Mind surely is greater than speech. Just as the closed hand encompasses two Amalaka, or two Kola, or two Aksa fruits, so does the mind encompasses speech and name. When by mind one intends "Let me learn the Mantras", then he learns; Let me do sacrificial acts", then he does; "Let me desire offspring and cattle", then he desires; "Let me desire this world and the next", then he desires. Mind indeed is Atman. Mind indeed is the world. Mind indeed is Brahman. Worship the mind.
VII-iii-2: ‘He who worships the mind as Brahman becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of mind, he who worships the mind as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than mind?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than mind’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-iv-1: ‘Will surely is greater than mind. Verily, when one wills, then he intends in his mind, then he sends forth speech, and he sends it forth in a name. In the name sacred formulas and in sacred formulas the sacrifices become one.’
VII-iv-2: ‘All these, indeed, merge in the will, are made up of the will, and abide in the will. Heaven and earth willed, air and Akasa willed, water and fire willed. Through the willing of these, rain wills. Through the willing of rain, food wills. Through the willing of food, Pranas will. Through the willing of Pranas, sacred formulas will. Through the willing of sacred formulas (sacrificial) acts will. Through the willing of (sacrificial) acts, the world wills. Through the willing of the world, all things will. This is will. Worship will.
VII-iv-3: ‘He who worships will as Brahman, he indeed, attains the worlds willed by him – himself being permanent, the permanent worlds; himself being well-founded, the well-founded worlds; himself being undistressed, the undistressed world. He becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of will, he who worships will as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than will ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than will’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-v-1: ‘Intelligence surely is greater than will. Verily, when one understands, then he wills, then he intends in mind, then he sends forth speech, and he sends it forth in a name. In the name sacred formulas and in sacred formulas the sacrificed become one.
VII-v-2: ‘All these, indeed, merge in intelligence, are made up of intelligence and abide in intelligence. Therefore, even if a man who knows much is without intelligence, people speak of him thus, ‘He does not exist, nor what he has known; if he were really learned, he would not thus be without intelligence". On the other hand, if a man knowing little is endowed with intelligence, people desire to listen to him also. Intelligence, indeed, is the one centre of mergence of all these, intelligence is their soul, and intelligence is their support. Worship intelligence.
VII-v-3: ‘He who worships intelligence as Brahman, he indeed, attains the worlds of intelligence – himself being permanent, the permanent worlds; himself being well-established, the well-established worlds; and himself being undistressed, the undistressed world. He becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of intelligence, he who worships intelligence as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than intelligence ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than intelligence’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-vi-1: ‘Contemplation surely is greater than intelligence. The earth contemplates as it were. The sky contemplates as it were. Heaven contemplates as it were. Water contemplates as it were. The mountains contemplate as it were. Gods and men contemplate as it were. Therefore, verily, those who attain greatness among men here, they seem to have obtained a share of the result of contemplation. And those who are small people, they are quarrelsome, abusive and slanderous; but those who are great men, they appear to have obtained a share of the result of contemplation. Worship contemplation.
VII-vi-2: ‘He who worships contemplation as Brahman becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of contemplation, he who worships contemplation as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than contemplation ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than contemplation’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-vii-1: ‘Understanding surely is greater than contemplation. By understanding alone one understands the Rig-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Sama-Veda, Atharvana as the fourth, Itihasa-Purana as the fifth, grammar, the rules for the worship of the ancestors; mathematics, the science of portents, the science of treasures, logic, the Vedas, the physical science, the science of war, the science of the stars, the science related to serpents, and the fine arts – also heaven and earth, air and Akasa, water and fire, gods and men, cattle and birds, grasses and trees, beasts down to worms, flying insects and ants, merit and demerit, true and false, good and bad, pleasant and unpleasant, food and drink, this world and the next – (all this) one understands by understanding alone. Worship understanding.
VII-vii-2: ‘He who worships understanding as Brahman, attains the worlds containing the knowledge of the Scriptures and other subjects. He becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of understanding, he who worships understanding as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than understanding ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than understanding’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-viii-1: ‘Strength surely is greater than understanding. A single man with strength causes even a hundred men with understanding to tremble. When a man becomes strong, then he rises; rising, he serves; serving, he approaches nearer; approaching nearer, he sees, hears, reflects, understands, acts and realizes. By strength, indeed, the earth stands; by strength, the sky; by strength, heaven; by strength, the mountains; by strength, gods and men; by strength, cattle and birds, grasses and trees, beasts down to worms, flying insects and ants; by strength the world stands. Worship strength.
VII-viii-2: ‘He who worships strength as Brahman becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of strength, he who worships strength as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than strength ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than strength’. ‘Revered sir, ommunicate it to me’.


VII-ix-1: ‘Food surely is greater than strength. Therefore, if one does not eat for ten days, even though he might live, yet, verily, he does not see, does not hear, does not reflect, does not act, and does not realize. But with the coming of food, he sees, hears, reflects, understands, acts and realizes. Worship food.
VII-ix-2: ‘He who worships food as Brahman, he verily attains the worlds supplied with food and drink. He is free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of food, he who worships food as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than food ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than food’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-x-1: ‘Water surely is greater than food. Therefore, when there is not good rain, living creatures are in agony (thinking), "Food will be scarce". But when there is good rain, living creatures become joyous (thinking), "Food will abound". Water, indeed, has assumed all these forms – this earth, this sky, this heaven, these mountains, these gods and men, these cattle and birds, grasses and trees, beasts down to worms, flying insects and ants. Water, indeed, has assumed all these forms. Worship water.
VII-x-2: ‘He who worships water as Brahman obtains all desires and becomes satisfied. He becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of water, he who worships water as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than water ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than water’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-xi-1: ‘Fire surely is greater than water. It is this fire that having seized the air warms up the Akasa. Then people say, "It is hot, it is burning hot, it will surely rain". There, it is fire that shows itself first, and then creates water. It is (because of) this fire that thunders roll, along with lightnings flashing upwards and across; and so people say, "Lightning is flashing, it is thundering, it will surely rain". There, it is fire that shows itself first and then creates water. Worship fire.
VII-xi-2: ‘He who worships fire as Brahman, he, being resplendent himself, attains resplendent worlds, full of light and free from darkness. He becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of fire, he who worships fire as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than fire ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than fire’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-xii-1: Akasa surely is greater than fire. In Akasa, indeed, exist both the sun and the moon, lightning, stars and fire. Through Akasa one calls, through Akasa one hears, through Akasa one hears the response. In Akasa one rejoices, in Akasa one does not rejoice. In Akasa a thing is born, and towards Akasa it grows. Worship Akasa.
VII-xii-2: ‘He who worships Akasa as Brahman, he indeed, attains vast worlds full of light, unconfined and spacious. He is free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of Akasa, he who worships Akasa as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than Akasa ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than Akasa’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-xiii-1: ‘Memory surely is greater than Akasa. Therefore, even if many persons should assemble and if they should have no memory, they surely would not hear any sound, they would not think, they would not know. But surely, should they have memory, then they would hear, then they would think, then they would know. Through memory, indeed, one discerns one’s sons, through memory one’s cattle. Worship memory.
VII-xiii-2: ‘He who worships memory as Brahman becomes free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of memory, he who worships memory as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than memory ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than memory’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-xiv-1: ‘Aspiration surely is greater than memory. Kindled by aspiration, (one’s) memory recites the hymns, performs rites, desires sons and cattle, desires this world and the next. Worship aspiration.
VII-xiv-2: ‘He who worships aspiration as Brahman, by aspiration all his wishes prosper, his prayers become infallible. He is free to act as he wishes in the sphere within the reach of aspiration, he who worships aspiration as Brahman’. ‘Revered sir, is there anything greater than aspiration ?’ ‘Surely, there is something greater than aspiration’. ‘Revered sir, communicate it to me’.


VII-xv-1: ‘Prana surely is greater than aspiration. Just as the spokes of the wheel are fastened to the nave, so is all this fastened to this Prana. Prana moves by Prana, Prana gives Prana and it gives Prana. Prana is the father, Prana is the mother, Prana is the brother, Prana is the sister, Prana is the preceptor, Prana is the Brahmana.
VII-xv-2: ‘If one answers something harsh to his father, mother, brother, sister, preceptor or a Brahmana, people say this to him, "Fie on you ! You are indeed a slayer of your father, you are indeed a slayer of your mother, you are indeed a slayer of your brother, you are indeed a slayer of your sister, you are indeed a slayer of your preceptor, you are indeed a slayer of a Brahmana."
VII-xv-3: ‘On the other hand, when the Prana has departed from them, even if one piles them together, dismembers them with a fork and burns them up, surely people would not say to him, "You are a slayer of your father", nor "you are a slayer of your mother", nor "You are a slayer of your brother", nor "You are a slayer of your sister", nor "you are a slayer of your preceptor", nor "You are a slayer of a Brahmana".
VII-xv-4: ‘Prana indeed becomes all these. He, indeed, who sees thus, thinks thus and knows thus becomes a surpassing speaker. If someone were to say to him, "You are a surpassing speaker", he should say, "Yes, I am a surpassing speaker", he should not deny it.


VII-xvi-1: ‘But he really speaks surpassingly who speaks surpassingly with truth’. ‘Revered sir, being such, I would speak surpassingly with truth’. ‘But one must desire to understand the truth’. ‘Revered sir, I desire to understand the truth’.


VII-xvii-1: ‘When one understands, then alone does one declare the truth. Without understanding, one does not declare the truth. Only he who understands declares the truth. But one must desire to understand understanding.’ ‘Revered sir, I desire to understand understanding’.


VII-xviii-1: ‘When one reflects, then alone does one understand. Without reflecting one does not understand. Only he who reflects understands. But one must desire to understand reflection.’ ‘Revered sir, I desire to understand reflection’.


VII-xix-1: ‘When one has faith, then alone does one reflect. Without faith, one does not reflect. Only he who has faith reflects. But one must desire to understand faith’. ‘Revered sir, I desire to understand faith’.


VII-xx-1: ‘When one has steadfastness, then alone does one have faith. Without steadfastness, one does not have faith. Only he who has steadfastness has faith. But one must desire to understand steadfastness.’ ‘Revered sir, I desire to understand steadfastness.’


VII-xxi-1: ‘When one acts, then alone does one become steadfast. Without acting, one does not become steadfast. Only on acting does one become steadfast. But one must desire to understand activity’. ‘Revered sir, I desire to understand activity’.


VII-xxii-1: ‘When one obtains happiness’, then alone does one act. Without obtaining happiness one does not act. Only on obtaining happiness does one act. But one must desire to understand happiness’. ‘Revered sir, I desire to understand happiness’.


VII-xxiii-1: That which is infinite, is alone happiness. There is no happiness in anything finite. The infinite alone is happiness. But one must desire to understand the infinite’. ‘Revered sir, I desire to understand the infinite’.


VII-xxiv-1: ‘In which one sees nothing else, hears nothing else, understands nothing else, that is infinite. But that in which one sees something else, hears something else, understands something else, is the finite. That which is infinite, is alone immortal, and that which is finite, is mortal’. ‘Revered sir, in what is that infinite established ?’ ‘On its own greatness or not even on its own greatness’.
VII-xxiv-2: ‘Here in this world people call cows and horses, elephants and gold, servants and wives, fields and houses, "greatness". I do not speak thus (of greatness), for in that case one thing would be established in another. What I do say is thus:


VII-xxv-1: ‘That infinite alone is below. That is above. That is behind. That is in front. That is to the south. That is to the north. That alone is all this. So next is the teaching in regard to the self-sense. I alone am below. I am above. I am behind. I am in front. I am to the south. I am to the north. I alone am all this.
VII-xxv-2: ‘So now is the teaching through Atman. Atman alone is below. Atman is above. Atman is behind. Atman is in front. Atman is to the south. Atman is to the north. Atman alone is all this. Verily, he it is who sees thus, and understands thus, has pleasure in Atman, delight in Atman, union in Atman, joy in Atman. He becomes Self-sovereign; he becomes free to act as he wishes in all the worlds. But those who know otherwise than this are ruled by others and live in perishable worlds; they are not free to act as they wish in all the worlds.
VII-xxvi-1: Verily, for him alone, who sees thus, reflects thus and understands thus, Prana springs from Atman, aspiration from Atman, memory from Atman, Akasa from Atman, fire from Atman, water from Atman, appearance and disappearances from Atman, food from Atman, strength from Atman, understanding from Atman, contemplation from Atman, intelligence from Atman, will from Atman, mind from Atman, speech from Atman, name from Atman, hymns from Atman, rites from Atman, all this (springs) from Atman alone.
VII-xxvi-2: ‘There is this verse about it: "He who sees this does not see death nor illness nor any sorrow. He who sees this sees all things and obtains all things in all ways." ‘He is one, becomes threefold, fivefold, sevenfold and also ninefold. Then again he is called the elevenfold, also a hundred-and-ten-fold and also a thousand-and twenty-fold. ‘’When nourishment is pure, reflection and higher understanding become pure. When reflection and higher understanding are pure, memory becomes strong. When memory becomes strong, there is release from all the knots of the heart. The revered Sanatkumara showed to Narada, after his impurities had been washed off, the further shore of darkness. People call Sanatkumara as Skanda – yea, they call him Skanda.


Regards,
Orlando.

orlando
16 November 2006, 11:32 AM
VII-xxv-1: ‘That infinite alone is below. That is above. That is behind. That is in front. That is to the south. That is to the north. That alone is all this. So next is the teaching in regard to the self-sense. I alone am below. I am above. I am behind. I am in front. I am to the south. I am to the north. I alone am all this.
VII-xxv-2: ‘So now is the teaching through Atman. Atman alone is below. Atman is above. Atman is behind. Atman is in front. Atman is to the south. Atman is to the north. Atman alone is all this. Verily, he it is who sees thus, and understands thus, has pleasure in Atman, delight in Atman, union in Atman, joy in Atman. He becomes Self-sovereign; he becomes free to act as he wishes in all the worlds. But those who know otherwise than this are ruled by others and live in perishable worlds; they are not free to act as they wish in all the worlds.

I found only a choice about the interpretation of such verses.
I understood verses VII-xxv-1 and VII-xxv-2 in a monistic(advaita) view.
I understood that I am the all pervading Atma/Brahman.
I understood that That(Paramatma) and I(Jivatma) are the same entity.

I will quote a verse from Brihadaranyaka Upanishad in order to support my point of view.
By http://www.advaita.it/library/brihadaranyaka.htm

I-iv-10: This (self) was indeed Brahman in the beginning. It knew only Itself as, ‘I am Brahman’. Therefore It became all. And whoever among the gods knew It also became That; and the same with sages and men. The sage Vamadeva, while realising this (self) as That, knew, ‘I was Manu, and the sun’. And to this day whoever in like manner knows It as, ‘I am Brahman’, becomes all this (universe). Even the gods cannot prevail against him, for he becomes their self. While he who worships another god thinking, ‘He is one, and I am another’, does not know. He is like an animal to the gods. As many animals serve a man, so does each man serve the gods. Even if one animal is taken away, it causes anguish, what should one say of many animals ? Therefore it is not liked by them that men should know this.

I will quote some verses taken from agamas(I am not sure if they are shaivite agamas).Such verses support my point of view.
I am the Supreme Brahman! I am the Lord of the universe! Such is the settled conviction of the muktas. All other experiences lead to bondage. When the Self is clearly realized not to be the body, the realizer gains peace and becomes free from all desires.Devikalottara Agama, Jnana-achara-vichara 50-51

Realize the Self always to be neither above nor below, nor on either side, not without nor within, but to be eternal and shining beyond the sublime world.Sarvajnanottara Agama, Atma Sakshatkara 29

One who is established in the contemplation of nondual unity will abide in the Self of everyone and realize the immanent, all-pervading One. There is no doubt of this.Sarvajnanottara Agama, Atma Sakshatkara 14

Now I will quote verses 16-24 from Kaivalya Upanishad.
By http://www.visionaire.org/advaitavedant/kaivalya.htm

16. That which is the Supreme Brahman, the soul of all, the great support of the universe, subtler than the subtle, and eternal – that is thyself, and thou art That.
17. "That which manifests the phenomena, such as the states of wakefulness, dream and profound sleep, I am that Brahman" – realising thus one is liberated from all bonds.
18. What constitute the enjoyable, the enjoyer, and the enjoyment, in the three abodes – different from them all am I, the Witness, the Pure Consciousness, the Eternal Good.
19. In me alone is everything born, in me does everything rest, and in me is everything dissolved. I am that Brahman, the secondless.
20. I am minuter than the minute, I am likewise the greatest of all, I am the manifold universe. I am the Ancient One, the Purusha and the Ruler, I am the Effulgent One, and the All-good.
21. Without arms and legs am I, of unthinkable power; I see without eyes, and I hear without ears. I know all, and am different from all. None can know me. I am always the Intelligence.
22. I alone am taught in the various Vedas, I am the revealer of the Vedanta or Upanishads, and I am also the Knower of the Vedas. For me there is neither merit nor demerit, I suffer no destruction, I have no birth, nor any self-identity with the body and the organs.
23-24. For me there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor air, nor ether. Thus realising the Paramatman, who lies in the cavity of the heart, who is without parts, and without a second, the Witness of all, beyond both existence and non-existence – one attains the Pure Paramatman Itself.

Regards,
Orlando.