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jasdir
08 November 2010, 04:37 AM
If the world was created the way we think it was created, then it seems like that the "Creator" had already existed before the world was created.

So, He(god) didn't really introduced "Himself" on this earth or any other planet. Instead, "He" introduced this earth and other planets to "His" creations.

However there is the "Creator", Which we can call, The "God",
We further don't know for sure that the reason why we call Him the "Creator" is really a good reason to call Him The "Creator".

If we are doing this for the sake of convenience for ourselves, as everything is fair in "Love" & War, OR, If choose this the way to permote our "Love" for "God" like this, SO,

Which is the most difficult Question in Spirituality you think ?

nirotu
08 November 2010, 10:42 AM
Which is the most difficult Question in Spirituality you think ?

Trying to be in centered-self without being self-centered !

A quote from Ravi Ravindra

Blessings,

Eastern Mind
08 November 2010, 11:41 AM
Vannakkam:

Among many difficult questions, mine would be the simple "Who are you?" or the same question posed internally, "Who am I?" I have been told that it takes the realisation of the Self to answer it, so it seems pretty difficult for me.

Aum Namasivaya

sunyata07
08 November 2010, 11:49 AM
Namaste,

EM has taken the words from my mouth. I also feel that it is the simpler questions that are sometimes the hardest to understand. Some days you think you have an idea of the answer, and then some days your complacency dissolves away and you are right back where you started.

Om namah Shivaya

Ekanta
08 November 2010, 01:23 PM
I agree with Eastern Mind.
Sometimes when people ask me "how are you"? I begin to wonder "who am I" and cant even answer the question anymore.

yajvan
08 November 2010, 01:41 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Sometimes when people ask me "how are you"? I begin to wonder "who am I" and cant even answer the question anymore.

I can apprecaite this POV. When people ask who are you ? I answer with my name... that is My name is yajvan vs. saying I am yajvan.
Yet if you visit a temple, the pundits ask , and what is your good name? They already know who you are!

Yet I am not perplexed by who I am , for this I can look to the wisdom of the śāstra's as they point the way. But notice I say, they point they way, for I have not arrived at the destination, but i know the direction and the method to get there. For this I am blessed.

If you do not know where you are going, then any road will take you there.

praṇām

http://www.pictureninja.com/pages/australia/queensland/brisbane-train-station.jpg

yajvan
08 November 2010, 09:08 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté




Which is the most difficult Question in Spirituality you think ?



It seems to me one of the most difficult questions is that of focus and commitment to one's path .
If this is not within the realm of this string, then let me first ask your pardon, but allow me to offer the following for one's consideration.

It seems to me the śloka from the kaṭhopaniṣad (I.3.14) may say it the best ( for me)... its like a razor's edge.

It says , arise, awake. Approach ( varā¹) the best of masters , do realize the Self ( ātman); difficult ( durgaṁ¹) to cross ( some say difficult is the path) like a razor's edge¹, so the wise proclaim.

What is the point here? for the sādhu (yogī or yoginī both being yogin-s) there are many distractions. These distractions can be internal or external.

Now think of the householder that wishes to carry-on a meaningful spiritual life. How many things capture the mind? Family, friends,
work and all the responsibilities.

The kaṭha upaniṣad (I.2.2) also talks of śreyas (conducive to welfare i.e. of higher value) and preyas (dearer , more agreeable , more desired i.e. pleasant for here and now, amenable to worldly life and accommodations). It says the following ( Yama is talking to naciketas¹)
Both śreyas and preyas approach man. The wise fully surveying them (both) , discriminates and chooses śreyas in preference to preyas. The ignorant interested in worldly well-being chooses ( really the word is 'thus consumes' or vṛṇīte) preyas.

So as I see it, it is the struggle for remaining focused on the important things, śreyas, as the difficult question to fulfill.


praṇām

words

varā - choose, 'select' also means precious , best , most excellent
durgaṁ - or durga - difficult of access or approach , impassable , unattainable
niśita - sharpened , sharp ; also means steel or iron
naciketa - of a man; is rooted in cit to perceive , fix the mind upon , attend to , be attentive , observe , take notice of ; 'na' is not , no , nor , neither.
Hence na + cit is to not take notice of, or be attentive or know.
keta desire , wish , will , intention ; is also rooted in cit ;
Hence na + keta is (he) without desire or wish

Ramakrishna
08 November 2010, 10:57 PM
Vannakkam:

Among many difficult questions, mine would be the simple "Who are you?" or the same question posed internally, "Who am I?" I have been told that it takes the realisation of the Self to answer it, so it seems pretty difficult for me.

Aum Namasivaya

Namaste all,

I believe this is perhaps the ultimate and most difficult question in spirituality. Sri Ramana Maharshi spent nearly an entire lifetime answering the question of "Who am I?" before becoming self-realized. He also advocated self-inquiry and the answering of this seemingly basic question as the principal means towards attaining self-realization.

Jai Sri Krishna

kd gupta
08 November 2010, 11:28 PM
If the world was created the way we think it was created, then it seems like that the "Creator" had already existed before the world was created.

So, He(god) didn't really introduced "Himself" on this earth or any other planet. Instead, "He" introduced this earth and other planets to "His" creations.

However there is the "Creator", Which we can call, The "God",
We further don't know for sure that the reason why we call Him the "Creator" is really a good reason to call Him The "Creator".

If we are doing this for the sake of convenience for ourselves, as everything is fair in "Love" & War, OR, If choose this the way to permote our "Love" for "God" like this, SO,

Which is the most difficult Question in Spirituality you think ?
What is spirituality ;) ?

jasdir
09 November 2010, 03:07 AM
What is spirituality ;) ?

Which is the most difficult Question in Spirituality ?
(In this Q: Spirituality is ment by Spiritual Sience )

So, Gupta ji, waiting for your Q:

Your's jasdir.
"Namaste"

jasdir
09 November 2010, 04:20 AM
Vannakkam:

Among many difficult questions, mine would be the simple "Who are you?" or the same question posed internally, "Who am I?" I have been told that it takes the realisation of the Self to answer it, so it seems pretty difficult for me.

Aum Namasivaya

>>>mine would be the simple "Who are you?"<<<

Eastren Mind ji,
If this is simple than which is Difficult ?

Once this same Q: was asked to one spiritual teacher, "Who are you"?

Teacher replied: "God"

Some another day again this same Q: was asked to that same spiritual teacher,

Teacher replied: "I" am not "God"

One of his student stood up and claimed the "Teacher" for the two opposite answers for the same Q:

Teacher replied: As the two swords are not able to fit in one case,
Similarly: ("I") and ("God") cannot stay together.

That day the answer was only: "God", Today the answer is: "I" am not "God"

Again the student claimed: But! how can "I" know this practically.

Teacher replied: To practically know this go deep into yourself as much as you can, your answer is within the in.

Again the student claimed: Teacher how much deep "I" have to go.

Teacher replied: Until you loose your "I".


Anyhow eastren ji, As multiplying this Q: "Who are You" with the answer of that spiritual teacher:
Answer for the Q: "who are you" is: "God" & you are not "God".

Eastren mind ji, your brother jasdir.
"Namaste"

kd gupta
09 November 2010, 04:50 AM
Namaste Jasdirji
swabhaavo’dhyaatmamuchyate; gita says…swa+bhav i.e. feeling aham brahmasmi or this jeevatma is called spirituality .
Spirituality is gyan or vidya . It is not science or vigyan which is called avidya, gita says…Adhyaatmavidyaa vidyaanaam .

Kva ryatam purvyam gatam kastdvibharti nutano vittam me asya rodasi 4/105/rig 1

Veda asks this most difficult question from demigods in case of spirituality…
Where have gone these eternal principles of TRUTH , and how O modern scientific people you are still alive ?

Eastern Mind
09 November 2010, 06:10 AM
Eastren Mind ji,
If this is simple than which is Difficult ?



Vannakkam Jasdir: What I meant by 'simple' was it has simple words and is not a long question at all. That does not mean it isn't a difficult question. I think you got two different meanings of 'simple' confused.

Aum Namasivaya

jasdir
09 November 2010, 06:52 AM
Vannakkam Jasdir: What I meant by 'simple' was it has simple words and is not a long question at all. That dies not mean it isn't a difficult question. I think you got two different meanings of 'simple' confused.

Aum Namasivaya

Eastren ji, Thanks for clearing my confusion,

"Namaste" by jasdir.

Sahasranama
09 November 2010, 07:24 AM
I think the most difficult question is how to live your life, how to follow spirituality while being engaged in the world outside. On the one side, you have escapists and on the other side you have materialists. The message of the Gita is to do your karma, not to escape into the forest, but also not to live like a materialist. Maybe it's not the most difficult question, but it's a pragmatic one that's very important.

jasdir
09 November 2010, 07:36 AM
I think the most difficult question is how to live your life, how to follow spirituality while being engaged in the world outside. On the one side, you have escapists and on the other side you have materialists. The message of the Gita is not to walk on either of those paths, but to find a middle path.

Sahasranama ji, This is wonderful.

Sahasranama ji, can u give some tips, which are helpful for someone who is walking on the path of spirituality,
How to follow spirituality while being engaged in the world outside. On the one side, we have escapists and on the other side we have materialists.

Sahasranama
09 November 2010, 08:35 AM
It's not easy to answer for me, but let's take the example of health. There are people who live ascetic lives and do not care for their clothing, for their feeding, they stay days without food. This is all good for those people, but there are only few people who are really qualified to live ascetic lives. These people are not good examples for us everyday human beings. Then you have the western narcisist health nut on the other side of the spectrum. The shastras say: idam shariram khalu dharmasadhanam. This body is the vehicle for performing all acts of dharma. It is important to care for it, protect it, to provide for it and let it enjoy healthy food and other objects. But you don't get attached to the body like some of the health nuts you see here in the west who develop orthorexia and problems with body image.

Interesting fact, Madhvacharya the founder of the dvaitavedanta school was an avid weightlifter and wrestler. Maybe an interesting fact you can share with your avarage tree hugging hatha yogi.

jasdir
10 November 2010, 06:09 AM
It's not easy to answer for me, but let's take the example of health. There are people who live ascetic lives and do not care for their clothing, for their feeding, they stay days without food. This is all good for those people, but there are only few people who are really qualified to live ascetic lives. These people are not good examples for us everyday human beings. Then you have the western narcisist health nut on the other side of the spectrum. The shastras say: idam shariram khalu dharmasadhanam. This body is the vehicle for performing all acts of dharma. It is important to care for it, protect it, to provide for it and let it enjoy healthy food and other objects. But you don't get attached to the body like some of the health nuts you see here in the west who develop orthorexia and problems with body image.

Interesting fact, Madhvacharya the founder of the dvaitavedanta school was an avid weightlifter and wrestler. Maybe an interesting fact you can share with your avarage tree hugging hatha yogi.

Anyhow, Sahasranama ji
Thank you so much for the Guidence,

"Namaste"

saidevo
11 November 2010, 09:59 AM
namaste Jasdir.

Two difficult questions I would like to know the answers for:

1. If Creation is Ishvara-lIla--God's sport, why should he play with our lives for his sport?

2. Since I am born in this world, should I not know why I was born? Why all this chasing a black cat in a dark room when it is not there?

sunyata07
11 November 2010, 11:12 AM
1. If Creation is Ishvara-lIla--God's sport, why should he play with our lives for his sport?



Namaste Saidevo,

I was just about to post this question. I don't think I can ever understand the concept of lila. Why has God willed it so that we are to think ourselves separate from Him, only to grow back into real knowledge? Why would He ever let us forget our true Self? What is the reason behind evolution to higher states of consciouness? Is there no other way we could have already known?

Om namah Shivaya

jasdir
12 November 2010, 08:13 AM
namaste Jasdir.

Two difficult questions I would like to know the answers for:

1. If Creation is Ishvara-lIla--God's sport, why should he play with our lives for his sport?

2. Since I am born in this world, should I not know why I was born? Why all this chasing a black cat in a dark room when it is not there?

Saidevo ji,
Nevertheless these are the great Questions,

I don't say that i surely know the answers of these Questions, But i will try to give the answer as "I Think"

I need some time to type the answers in short, so please keep wait.

Namaste by jasdir.

yajvan
12 November 2010, 09:34 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233; saidevo,


namaste Jasdir.

Two difficult questions I would like to know the answers for:

1. If Creation is Ishvara-lIla--God's sport, why should he play with our lives for his sport?

2. Since I am born in this world, should I not know why I was born? Why all this chasing a black cat in a dark room when it is not there?

These are in fact difficult questions when viewed from the POV of an 'owner'.

If there is the Supreme and there is 'us', then there is the division of the two. Yet one must ask, who owns what? And are we seeing clearly on this 'play' ?
Why were we born... It seems to me that it is the responsibility of our elders to inform us, no? And where did they get the information? From their elders, as we go back and back. Hence we end up with the wise offering their wisdom by word of mouth. Hence could we have lost something over time? We see this view in the bhāgavad gītā offered by Kṛṣṇa , that it is due to time that the wisom is lost or erodes.praṇām

yajvan
12 November 2010, 09:49 PM
Namaste Saidevo,
so that we are to think ourselves separate from Him, only to grow back into real knowledge? Why would He ever let us forget our true Self?

The ~secret~ is He that has condenced Himself , this Being, into us, in a limited way. We are this Being in a limited format.

That is why the Supreme is so profound and so vast. If the Supreme is all and every-thing, He is the biggest of the big and the smallest of the small, it is only this Supreme that is us.

This is the awakening the wise speak of. Awakening to one's own true status. That is, to be infinite ( the Supreme) and finite ( the human format) at the same time!

It is like a king that receives a bump on his head. He wanders around the country-side, thinking his is none other then one of the villigers. Yet he is informed he is the king and he laughs, surely you play a joke on me, stop this.
Yet when he is taken to his castle ( samādhi) and shown around; it begins to come back to him that this is home, that he is , and was the king all the while he remained in the country-side.

praṇām

NayaSurya
13 November 2010, 12:01 AM
It is good to know even the high beings here have similar questions to this lower one.

I have been thinking for years about this question Saidevo has written.

How many times must a child die of starvation before Beloved knows this moment well enough for it to never have to happen again?

Why so much suffering? Surely in the billions of beings whom have suffered here within this realm would be enough for We to know this moment and then have to experience it no more?

Why must we struggle to pick up the clues and try to decipher the bread crumb trails left by our higher portion so that we may burn up this debt before us?

I am a low portion and I know that these are questions which I can never answer until the moment with which I am liberated from this imprisonment here.

This portion has been malfunctioning lately. It cares less and less about things, even the things which once seemed so crucial.

Were it not for the children, it would have simply drifted off to a dusty corner of some temple and blended into the stone to wait for freedom.

Can one dissolve completely and continue functioning in this society we dwell within?

jasdir
13 November 2010, 12:24 AM
namaste Jasdir.

Two difficult questions I would like to know the answers for:

1. If Creation is Ishvara-lIla--God's sport, why should he play with our lives for his sport?

2. Since I am born in this world, should I not know why I was born? Why all this chasing a black cat in a dark room when it is not there?

1:He himself, is “God”
2:He himself, is NOW deciding to play the role of numberless characters in his game.
3:He himself, is NOW playing the role of numberless characters & character in his game.
4:He himself, is NOW fed up by the role of some characters in his game.
5:He himself, is NOW deciding to delete the role of some characters in his game.
6:He himself, in the role of his character has NOW selected to delete the role of some characters in his game.
7:He himself, has NOW deleted the role of some characters in his game.
8:He himself, & his character is NOW “God”
9:He himself, is “God” again.
10:He himself, is NOW deciding to continue to play the role of numberless characters in his game.
11:He himself, is NOW playing the role of numberless characters & character in his game.

In the line:

1: He is in the form of “God” in “Paar Bramh” away from “NOW” or “Time” or “Kaal” or “Bramh”.
2: He is now present in “Time” in the form of “Bramh” (from where all creations takes birth).
3: He is present in the inactive form in all his creations facing outwards as a result which creates negative energy & Present in the active form in “Saints” or “Guru’s” facing inwards as a result which creates positive energy to compleate the circle of energy.
4: He is looking for the source (Saints) of positive energy to compleate the circle with negative energy.
5: He is looking for the negative energy to compleate the circle with source (Saints) of positive energy.
6: He is in the contact with source (Saints) of positive energy in the form of negative energy.
7: He has now completed the circle of energy.
8: He & his energy is now in the form of “God” away from “Now” or “Time” or “Kaal” or “Bramh”.
9: He is again in the form of “God” in “Paar Bramh” away from “NOW” or “Time” or “Kaal” or “Bramh”
10: He is now again present in “Time” in the form of “Bramh” (from where all creations takes birth).
11 : He is now present in the inactive form in all his creations facing outwards as a result which creates negative energy & Present in the active form in “Saints” or “Guru’s” facing inwards as a result which creates positive energy to compleate the circle of energy.

_/\_Servent jasdir.

saidevo
13 November 2010, 07:24 AM
namaste Yajvan and others.

Yajvan, I thank you for your points.

1. If Creation is Ishvara-lIla--God's sport, why should he play with our lives for his sport?

As you say, the answers to this question depends on the POV. In the nondualistic POV, Ishvara is the owner by simply being immanent, as the first mantra of the IshAvAsya upaniShad says: "IshA-vAsyam-idaM sarvam"--"all things in the world are covered by God."

Yet, from Ishvara's POV, does he know why he plays his lIlA--sport, of creation?

• Let us recall that the last verse of the NAsadIya sUkta of RgVeda 10.129 says that he may know the reason, or maybe he does not know it. This verse is also interepreted as, "If he does not know the reason, who else can?"

• From another angle, using the movie analogy, the saguNa brahman as the director of the movie of samsAra--world process, has his immanent mudrA--seal of consciousness, in every shot and affairs of the film. Did the Great Director know why he thought of the movie in the first place?

The UpaniShads say that the reason Brahman had for creation was the urge to create and expand, and thereby have a better expression of his personality and know himself better.

The POV of the jIvas--individual souls, who are characters in the play, is according to their spiritual level. Although many people intellectually and a few experientially understand Ishvara lIlA, no one can pinpoint the reason for the sport of creation.

*****

The second question is obviously related to the first:

2. Since I am born in this world, should I not know why I was born? Why all this chasing a black cat in a dark room when it is not there?

As I think about it:

• My previous and current births are so much near as the two sides of a coin, yet they don't see each other. And the coin is spun laterally, the head and tail of births chasing one another, with no indication of when the coin would fall.

• Since I have been given another birth, it is only fair that I should know the reason behind it. All I know is that my present birth is due to my past karma, but as to what exactly that past karma is, my parents or anyone in the lineage has any idea.

• Another complication is that I am not aware of my karmic bank balance: how much I owe and how much I gain. Knowing this balance could be a great self-motivation towards liberation.

My only chance of redemption is to live my life according to the tenets of my Dharma, try some spiritual sAdhana and hope for bhagavat-anugraha--God's grace. This is like the situation of chasing a black cat in a dark room.

Finally, as NayaSurya has pointed out, the thirst for answers to both these related questions increases with no hope of finding them, when I see the harmless, deserving billions in the world suffer endlessly, while some spiritually demented thousands enjoy all the wealth of sustenance in life.

amith vikram
13 November 2010, 07:54 AM
namaste Jasdir.

Two difficult questions I would like to know the answers for:

1. If Creation is Ishvara-lIla--God's sport, why should he play with our lives for his sport?

2. Since I am born in this world, should I not know why I was born? Why all this chasing a black cat in a dark room when it is not there?

I had a similar doubt god and me.......why can't he just escalate me,c'mon....stuff like that.I asked so many ppl whom i thought were highly qualified but nothing helped.Finally i found the answer in adhyasa bhashya or sutra bhashya of adi shankaracharya.

yajvan
13 November 2010, 08:06 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté saidevo,

Thank you for your posts and most insightful views.


namaste Yajvan and others.

• Since I have been given another birth, it is only fair that I should know the reason behind it.

You have said this with perfect clarity. It is 'I' that takes the birth. Now we may ask 'who' is behind it? Let me offer this view for one's consideration and pondering.

If we look to the the praśna upaniṣad (2.7) it gives us the insight of who comes and goes:
O, prāṇa as prajāpati you move within the wombs; you yourself are born repeatedly. These creatures in each of whom you dwell along with prāṇas brings offerings to you.

Note in this verse and through-out the praśna upaniṣad prāṇa =prajāpati = brahman. Now the point I relish is prāṇa =prajāpati = brahman = 'I'. That is pure I = pure consciousness (ahaṁ), not co-mingled with ego (ahaṁkāra) = cetana¹. So as we go from body to body, who is coming and going?

For those reading this and ask, yajvan, isn't prāṇa life-breath, life energy? I say yes, yet in the upaniṣads and confirmed in the brahma-sūtra-s prāṇa has a ~ higher value ~ of brahman.

praṇām
words
cetana चेतन - feminine gender is consciousness

saidevo
13 November 2010, 08:06 AM
namaste Amith.

Can you give a gist of the answer you found?


I had a similar doubt god and me.......why can't he just escalate me,c'mon....stuff like that.I asked so many ppl whom i thought were highly qualified but nothing helped.Finally i found the answer in adhyasa bhashya or sutra bhashya of adi shankaracharya.

amith vikram
13 November 2010, 12:27 PM
Namaste saidevoji,
My doubt was-if i am a man in this birth and say some animal in my previous birth,and a bird before that,which was my first ever birth?The ans i got from all was that it is beginingless.i thought,maybe this whole theory of brahman is a flaw. Only a few days back i read this very small intro to brahma sutras by shankara,called sutra bhashya.and it was incredible.The theory of superimposition called adhyasa.we superimpose the non-self on the self and believe it to be true.and that's natural to all animals including men who are born ignorant.Actually god is not playing any sport with anyone.like we know already,god is the witnesser,the one with no beginning and end.And the whole lot of cycle of births that we get is due to adhyasa i.e., superimposition of non-self like ego(i am a this...)on the self which is independant of everything.Adhyasa is due to ignorance.or in other words adhyasa is avidya.At the end of the day, we see that the whole concept of god is changed.God is not someone somewhere,but in us.we fail to see that due to adhyasa which is innate and which is removed by vidya.
And i felt this was true.i am 22 now and i thought of myself when i was 2 and that was completely diff person,although it was still me.weird really.

amith vikram
13 November 2010, 12:46 PM
And also this avidya,which is the cause for repeated births, does not exist,like darkness is not existant on its own and is removed by the dawn of light. so i believe the god's lila, god's advise, god's acts ......they are nothing but another face of vidya.

jasdir
15 November 2010, 06:05 AM
I had a similar doubt god and me.......why can't he just escalate me,c'mon....stuff like that.I asked so many ppl whom i thought were highly qualified but nothing helped.Finally i found the answer in adhyasa bhashya or sutra bhashya of adi shankaracharya.

He said, "Let there be," and it happened.
He made the latent turn into the manifest,
Out of the formless He created the form.
What a wondrous game He played!
What a carefree game He plays!

When He disclosed the hidden secret,
He lifted the veil from over His face.
Why does He now hide from me?
The Real permeates everyone.
What a carefree game He plays!

He said, "We have honored mankind;
None has been created like you;
You are the crown of all creation."
What a proclamation with the beat of drum!
What a carefree game He plays!

He himself indulges in these carefree acts;
He himself feels frightened of himself;
He has taken abode in every house;
And the people keep wandering in delusion.
What a carefree game He plays!

He himself aroused longing to become mad in love.
He himself became Laila to steal Majnun's heart.
Himself He wept, himself consoled himself.
0, what a game of love He plays!
What a carefree game He plays!

Himself the lover, He himself is the Beloved.
Here logic and reason have no part to play.
Bullah rejoices in his union with the Beloved.
Why does He create separation now?
What a carefree game He plays!

Amith Vikram ji, Enjoy this Poetry by Baba Bulle Shah.

Namaste by Jasdir.

Ekanta
25 November 2010, 09:17 AM
And a few weeks later... I feel the need to correct myself. From having said that "who am I" is the most difficult question, I'd rather say sense-control is the most difficult. Its known that sense-control leads to purity of mind (since it rids the mind of vasanas/impressions) and a pure mind becomes still, hence...

A verse from the Gita:

āvṛtaṃ jñānam etena jñānino nitya-vairiṇā |
kāma-rūpeṇa kaunteya duṣpūreṇānalena ca || 3.39 ||
3.39 Wisdom [jñānam] is enveloped by this constant enemy of the wise in the form of desire [kāma] which is unappeasable as fire, O Arjuna.

And a verse from Viveka Chudamani by Adi Shankara:

tanmanaḥśodhanaṃ kāryaṃ prayatnena mumukṣuṇā |
viśuddhe sati caitasminmuktiḥ karaphalāyate || 181 ||
181. Therefore the seeker after Liberation must carefully purify the mind. When this is purified, Liberation is as easy of access as a fruit on the palm of one’s hand.

(and sorry if I haven't read all the other replies)

jasdir
26 November 2010, 02:48 AM
sense-control is the most difficult.

:cool1: :)

kahanam
30 November 2010, 01:06 AM
"What is Dharma?" to me is the most difficult question in spirituality!
:) :) :)

jasdir
30 November 2010, 04:01 AM
"What is Dharma?" to me is the most difficult question in spirituality!
:) :) :)

The word ‘Dharma’ has been derived from the root ‘Dhri’ which means to sustain, to support and to guide. English word for Dharma is ‘Religion’ which comes from the Latin infinitive religare : i.e. Re meaning back, ligare meaning to bind or unite; or that which binds one back to one’s origin. Thus, religion means ‘re-union with God’.
Dharma (Religion) comprises those principles or doctrines, with the knowledge and proper performance of which, universal peace and communion with God is attained. The deeds which benefit the doer and his fellow beings are included in Dharma. If they result in pain or misery to others, they are termed as irreligious or adharma.

Man came first. Religions were instituted later for maintaining humanity and for the well-being of the mankind. However, man discarded humanity and became the custodian of religion. He forgot that his true Dharma (Religion) is Humanity.

All the outer forms of the body such as to keep long hair or to be clean-shaven, to mark the forehead with sacred mark (tilak) or to assume some other shape or form is merely a false show which indicates that one is the follower of a particular sect or a religious leader. These forms have nothing to do with spiritual uplift. These external marks or signs were evolved by the inhabitants of different countries, from time to time, which undergo changes with the passage of time. Therefore, these external observances do not comprise true Dharma or Religion. These are merely rites and rituals. It is foolishness, irreligious and inhuman to quarrel over these outer marks.

The followers of almost all the religions and the so called custodians of religion are entangled in observing outer rites and rituals prescribed by their respective sects. They are quarrelling amongst themselves over these outer physical forms due to lack of knowledge of the real teachings of Dharma (Religion). Thus they indulge in evil habits and sinful actions. They try to get butter by churning water instead of churning curd.

A true religious man is he who rises above duality and searches for the golden principles of true religion by adopting which the mind is cleansed and freed from greed, hatred, enmity, violence and jealousy and faith in God is strengthened. He beholds the Divine-Light in everybody and loves the whole mankind. He is determined to do good to others by word, thought and action. Only such a righteous person deserves salvation.

As long as the child is in the mother’s womb, he has no caste or creed. All human beings are the children of one Supreme Father i.e. God. All the disputes based on caste or creed are man made and they crop up only after birth.

God is Love and Love is God. Those who have realised the reality of religion, love God and His children. They found that true love is the basis of Religion. One great spiritual master said that the religion of love is different from all others. Realisation of true God is the only religion of the seekers and lovers. Without love, religion has no footing.

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/misc/progress.gif
_/\_Jasdir.

Ganeshprasad
30 November 2010, 08:51 AM
Pranam Ekanta


And a few weeks later... I feel the need to correct myself. From having said that "who am I" is the most difficult question, I'd rather say sense-control is the most difficult. Its known that sense-control leads to purity of mind (since it rids the mind of vasanas/impressions) and a pure mind becomes still, hence...



You find that Arjun in Gita Chapter six says controlling the mind is akin to catching the wind

Arjuna said: O Krishna, You have said that yoga of meditation is characterized by the equanimity (of mind), but, due to restlessness of mind I do not perceive the steady state of mind. (6.33)

Because the mind, indeed, is very unsteady, turbulent, powerful, and obstinate, O Krishna. I think restraining the mind is as difficult as restraining the wind. (6.34)

answer Lord Krishna gives is constant practice.

i find the answer to chapter 3 the most relevant

The senses are said to be superior (to matter or the body), the mind is superior to the senses, the intellect is superior to the mind, and Atma is superior to the intellect. (3.42)

Thus, knowing the Atma to be superior to the intellect, and controlling the mind by the intellect (that is purified by Jnana), one must kill this mighty enemy, Kaama, O Arjuna. (3.43)

Hate and desires i find to be binding force, the mind is for ever dwelling on this two.

Jai Shree Krishna

Ekanta
30 November 2010, 09:51 AM
Namaste Ganeshprasad.

yes... 3.42-43 is the well known chariot analogy from katha upanishad.
(where buddhi is the charioteer and the lower mind "manas" is the rein that control the horses i.e. "senses").

(my rendering... ) So the split in the mind is between higher and lower mind. Buddhi gets inpired from Atman and manas from the senses.

There is also a good definition when Krishna changes to karma-yoga in chapter 2:

2.48. Perform action, O Arjuna, being steadfast in Yoga, abandoning attachment and balanced in success and failure! Evenness of mind is called Yoga.
2.49. Far lower than the Yoga of wisdom [buddhi-yoga] is action [for the fruit], O Arjuna! Seek you refuge in wisdom; wretched are they whose motive is the fruit.
2.50. Endowed with wisdom (evenness of mind), one casts off in this life both good and evil deeds; therefore, devote yourself to Yoga; Yoga is skill in action.

(my rendering... ) Here is connection between action and guidance. Buddhi-yoga is asking the buddhi what to do when the lower mind and senses are dragged away by impulses.... and the buddhi in due turn gets its light from Atman.
Shankara defines it as: "buddhi-yogāt… actions undertaken with equanimity of mind."

... and later in the summary we find:
18.57. Mentally renouncing all actions in Me, having Me as the highest goal, resorting to the Yoga of discrimination [buddhi-yoga] do you ever fix your mind on Me.

(my rendering... ) Here we see that buddhi-yoga is to fix the mind on the Lord (inward) and the lord of the chariot is the Atman... (so the upanishad states)

Shankara defines it as: “Having the buddhi concentrated on Me is buddhi-yoga.”

Our friend Yoda (from star wars) also has some good advice:
"You will know (the good from the bad) when you are calm, at peace. Passive."

anirvan
24 December 2010, 01:04 AM
why i was born???was it necessary to born,suffer,struggle to attain self realization and salvation?

answer is offcourse there.that pain is there to realize the importance of bliss.

but still very difficult to be convinced.as we can"t see bigger picture when we are suffering.

jasdir
19 January 2011, 01:53 AM
why i was born???
Because when in the starting we were part of "God" or one with "Him", We said we want to do something of our own other than this joyful life.
"God"(heart) said don't do this otherwise you have to suffer, struggle a lot to come back, But still we created "Mind"

was it necessary to born,
It was decided by us when we was one with "God" (heart).
Yes! it was not so necessary to born, But still we created "Mind", so as result we are taking births again and again in serch of stable peace and Joy.

suffer,struggle to attain self realization and salvation?
answer is offcourse there.that pain is there to realize the importance of bliss.
but still very difficult to be convinced.as we can"t see bigger picture when we are suffering.
As it was Caution by "God" (heart), but still we created "Mind,
So, now we have to struggle for our salvation because their is no place of stable peace and joy other than "God".

_/\_Jasdir.