PDA

View Full Version : We & Spirituality Advocates



jasdir
17 November 2010, 05:48 AM
* We have seen the external Gurus; Spirituality advocates, behold the internal True Guru.
* We have seen the external Thakurs; Spirituality advocates, see the internal True Thakur.
* We have seen the external temples; Spirituality advocates, see the internal True Temple.
* We have read the external Shastras (holy books); Spirituality advocates, read the internal True Shastra.
* We have listened the external Bhajans; Spirituality advocates, listen the internal True Bhajan (Divine Melody).
* We have readed the external Kathas(spiritual discources); Spirituality advocates, read the internal True Kathas.
* We have recited the external Names; Spirituality advocates, meditate on the internal True Names (Word) which is constantly resounding by itself.
* We have listened to the external Kirtan (Hymns); Spirituality advocates, listen to the internal True Kirtan.
* We have gained the external bookish knowledge; Spirituality advocates, acquire the internal True Knowledge.
* We have tasted the external Amrit (Nectar); Spirituality advocates, drink the internal True Nectar of Immortality.
* We have bathed at the external places of pilgrimage; Spirituality advocates, bathe at the internal True place of Pilgrimage.
* We have practised the external sectarian worship; Spirituality advocates, also practise the internal True Worship.

So now there is a Q: for the forum members who are agreed with these obove lines :
Than Why Are We Roaming Outside ?
Comments of any type regarding the post are HUMBLY welcomed.

_/\_Namaste by Jasdir.

Harjas Kaur
17 November 2010, 07:56 AM
So now there is a Q: for the forum members who are agreed with these obove lines :Sorry, I don't agree at all.


Than Why Are We Roaming Outside ?There is a wonderful saying. "He who constitutes himself his own disciple is the disciple of a fool."

We live in the material world. Yet we also coexist in more than one spiritual dimension while embodied. The human body is precious because this is the vehicle and instrument through which to attain liberation. So there is something to embodiment and materiality which positively impacts our spiritual development.

If all our guidance and lessons could be learned from purely interiorized processes and intuition, then really why would embodiment be considered a precious gift?

Perhaps this perspective overlooks something. Unless you witness firsthand the pain of others by the grief in their faces, the moaning of their crying, perhaps the blood and wounds, then it is possible our "interior" notions of compassion have no relationship to the real world.

And if we are only in relationship to ourselves and our "ideas" about spirituality, we might miss the grace of interaction which pulls us out of the delusive bondage of our own "ideas" about life.

So don't overlook that human beings as multi-dimensional beings have as much to learn from the physical processes of simple things like relating with the body through acts of humility such as touching the ground with your forehead, or gently reciting mantras as gift of external praise to something greater than the Master of the self which the jeev is always so busy trying to elevate. Even simple acts as being kind to the husband/wife/child/pet is already a form of other-directed sanctification which lays the haumai low.

We never say we should eat our food interiorly and not participate in the motions of taste and digestion. yet we condemn temple worship? LOL, I think it is something closer to hypocrisy that no secular activities are on your list. All the external acts of devotion on your list represent our opportunities to publicly show humility in the presence of others. A difficult thing for an ego to do. how much easier to close one's eyes while following the leadership and guidance of one's own intuition and "imagine" what it is to be a "spiritual" person and never once take out the garbage, cook for dozens or even hundreds as a seva, wipe a tear, hold a hand, whisper prayers on the ear of a dying friend.

No, I much prefer the grace of interacting in the material (real to our level of development) world, and trying to learn the lessons of other-directedness which teach me endlessly how far I am from the true path of putting others first and cause me to bow my head in acknowledgment of my need for surrender on a daily basis to a power greater than myself.

Eastern Mind
17 November 2010, 08:21 AM
Vannakkam Jasdir:

While this may work for some realised soul sitting in the caves of the Himalayas, the rest of us are just great pretenders. Even the greatest of realised souls still come out (from within themselves) to educate or feed or to bring others into that realised state.

I am wondering where you copied and pasted this from. Please let us know the source and context of such statements.

I am in total agreement with Harjas.

Aum Namasivaya

jasdir
17 November 2010, 08:33 AM
Sorry, I don't agree at all.

There is a wonderful saying. "He who constitutes himself his own disciple is the disciple of a fool."

We live in the material world. Yet we also coexist in more than one spiritual dimension while embodied. The human body is precious because this is the vehicle and instrument through which to attain liberation. So there is something to embodiment and materiality which positively impacts our spiritual development.

If all our guidance and lessons could be learned from purely interiorized processes and intuition, then really why would embodiment be considered a precious gift?

Perhaps this perspective overlooks something. Unless you witness firsthand the pain of others by the grief in their faces, the moaning of their crying, perhaps the blood and wounds, then it is possible our "interior" notions of compassion have no relationship to the real world.

And if we are only in relationship to ourselves and our "ideas" about spirituality, we might miss the grace of interaction which pulls us out of the delusive bondage of our own "ideas" about life.

So don't overlook that human beings as multi-dimensional beings have as much to learn from the physical processes of simple things like relating with the body through acts of humility such as touching the ground with your forehead, or gently reciting mantras as gift of external praise to something greater than the Master of the self which the jeev is always so busy trying to elevate. Even simple acts as being kind to the husband/wife/child/pet is already a form of other-directed sanctification which lays the haumai low.

We never say we should eat our food interiorly and not participate in the motions of taste and digestion. yet we condemn temple worship? LOL, I think it is something closer to hypocrisy that no secular activities are on your list. All the external acts of devotion on your list represent our opportunities to publicly show humility in the presence of others. A difficult thing for an ego to do. how much easier to close one's eyes while following the leadership and guidance of one's own intuition and "imagine" what it is to be a "spiritual" person and never once take out the garbage, cook for dozens or even hundreds as a seva, wipe a tear, hold a hand, whisper prayers on the ear of a dying friend.

No, I much prefer the grace of interacting in the material (real to our level of development) world, and trying to learn the lessons of other-directedness which teach me endlessly how far I am from the true path of putting others first and cause me to bow my head in acknowledgment of my need for surrender on a daily basis to a power greater than myself.

Respected Harjas Kaur ji, "Sat-Shri-Akaal"

Nice to meet U
Nice to read U

Thankyou so much for your comments on Haumai(Ego)

I was thinking about the meaning of your name **HAR-JAS ?
Can you define ?

Once again "Sat-Shri- Akaal" from your brother Jasdir.

saidevo
17 November 2010, 08:34 AM
namaste Jasdir.

You need to be more practical and less fantasizing. I am sure you are part of a household and have friends. In this Kali Yuga, the householder, specially, one with niShkAma bhakti--desireless devotion, is better placed towards liberation than a person who ignores bhakti in the name of internal inquiry and meditation.

Like EM, I totally agree with HK, and urge you to cultivate the right perspectives and an attitude of reconciliation, for sustained spiritual progress.

jasdir
17 November 2010, 08:47 AM
I am wondering where you copied and pasted this from. Please let us know the source and context of such statements.


"Namaste" Eastrenmind ji,

Expencive Source (founded with very hard work)

I hope you are serious to purchase,


Namaste by jasdir.

Harjas Kaur
17 November 2010, 08:49 AM
I was thinking about the meaning of your name **HAR-JAS ?
Can you define ?

Sat Shri Akal respected Jasdir veer Ji.

Har is the Supreme Lordship Vishnu as Hari, which is swaroop of the God in the form of all-pervading golden Light like the rays of the Sun. Jas is one who sings the praises of that Divine Light.

Spiritual name is often a guide for the direction we should try to reach for and certainly no individual praise of the bearer. Guruji has given a very beautiful name. Thank you for asking, I'm happy to share.

Namaste Jio

Ekanta
17 November 2010, 09:38 AM
Namaste jasdir... and others

Much of what Harjas said... I would put it like this:

I think your "lines" are meant for those who are stuck only on "outside" appearances. In an attitude of reminding them of the internal.

However, for a spiritual aspirant both are important. If we are stuck on the external only we might never progress beyond that. If we try to look internally only, we miss all the great guidance we can get from temples, text, gurus etc etc.

In the end there is no contradiction... (since what's inside is outside) but either one taken on its own is less effective.
The instruction should be practiced/realized & that realization should expressed in ones action.

Ah, something like that... since you asked...

yajvan
17 November 2010, 08:46 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté Ekanta,

In the end there is no contradiction... (since what's inside is outside) but either one taken on its own is less effective.
The instruction should be practiced/realized & that realization should expressed in ones action.
Ah, something like that... since you asked...

A very level-headed response , just wanted to say thank you.

praṇām

saral
17 November 2010, 11:15 PM
Namste Jasdir Ji,

I am new in this way and I have very less knowledge about spirituality so please explain me who is “Spirituality Advocates”?

Saadar
Saral

jasdir
17 November 2010, 11:23 PM
In the end there is no contradiction... (since what's inside is outside) but either one taken on its own is less effective.
The instruction should be practiced/realized & that realization should expressed in ones action.

Great Spirituality Ekanta ji, I say it like this:

Our HOUSES are constructed under one sky, But! we cannot realize it through WINDOWS, To realize this we need to serch the DOOR and come outside from the HOUSE .
If we want to serch the DOOR we need to collect all our attentions from WINDOWS and than serch the DOOR to come out.

Any action which is helpful in collecting our attentions from WINDOWS and is helpful in finding the DOOR of our HOUSE to come out, Can be called as EFFORTS

In the above lines:
HOUSE is ment by: BODY
WINDOWS is ment by: EYES & other holes in the body
EFFORTS is ment by: BHAKTI (devotion)
DOOR is ment by: You have to serch......................... [Hint is Shivnater]

So, Ekanta ji

Namaste by your brother Jasdir.

jasdir
17 November 2010, 11:29 PM
Sat Shri Akal respected Jasdir veer Ji.

Har is the Supreme Lordship Vishnu as Hari, which is swaroop of the God in the form of all-pervading golden Light like the rays of the Sun. Jas is one who sings the praises of that Divine Light.

Spiritual name is often a guide for the direction we should try to reach for and certainly no individual praise of the bearer. Guruji has given a very beautiful name. Thank you for asking, I'm happy to share.

Namaste Jio

This is great Har-jas kaur ji, or GODpraise ji

My name is JAS-DIR, Can you help me ?

Hoping soon for the results.
Sat-Shri-Akal by your brother Jasdir.

Harjas Kaur
18 November 2010, 03:32 AM
"My name is JAS-DIR, Can you help me ?"
Your name means "one who is steadfast in singing praises of the God."

Also implies the quality of being patiently brave in your praise despite even adversity.

Sat Shri Akal Ji

jasdir
18 November 2010, 04:14 AM
Your name means "one who is steadfast in singing praises of the God."

Also implies the quality of being patiently brave in your praise despite even adversity.

Sat Shri Akal Ji



May "God" bless me the qualities of my NAME,(But i am not)

Now am thinking that my name is like a true lebel on the false thing,

Anyhow, Harjas ji
Thankyou so much for helping me,

Once again Sat-Shri-Akaal

Oh! Can you define "Sat- Shri- Akaal" ?

_/\_Brother Jasdir.

Harjas Kaur
18 November 2010, 05:52 AM
"Now am thinking that my name is like a true lebel on the false thing,"It is a true label on a true thing, the inner Light of the atma which can never be tarnished by any paap. What is false are the corrupted surrounding egotism of the jiv which thinks itself as the Primal DOER and endlessly seeks it's own elevation. The spiritual name points one in proper direction as encouragement to develop the spiritual qualities which will reveal the hidden Light and wash away the outer darkness.

Oh! Can you define "Sat- Shri- Akaal" ?Sat means Truth which is a Divine Quality. Shri of course is honorific designating the Divine. Akal is the swaroop of the Absolute Lord who is beyond time, beginningless and endless, as Kal in this context is meaning time. So the Name designates the One which is beyond time, and hence beyond limitation or maya.

It originates in the Khalsa jaikara (victory shout):
"Jo Bole So Nihal, Sat Shri Akal."

And that translates basically as "Blessed be the one who says Truth is the Name of the eternal God."

As one of the Naams for God in Sikhism is Satinaam (whose Name is Truth), it is perhaps contrasted with the Mughals "Allah hu akbar," Allah is greatest, as Sikh Army was created to fight the Mughal occupation and their forced conversions.

jasdir
18 November 2010, 06:15 AM
It is a true label on a true thing, the inner Light of the atma which can never be tarnished by any paap. What is false are the corrupted surrounding egotism of the jiv which thinks itself as the Primal DOER and endlessly seeks it's own elevation. The spiritual name points one in proper direction as encouragement to develop the spiritual qualities which will reveal the hidden Light and wash away the outer darkness.
Sat means Truth which is a Divine Quality. Shri of course is honorific designating the Divine. Akal is the swaroop of the Absolute Lord who is beyond time, beginningless and endless, as Kal in this context is meaning time. So the Name designates the One which is beyond time, and hence beyond limitation or maya.

It originates in the Khalsa jaikara (victory shout):
"Jo Bole So Nihal, Sat Shri Akal."

And that translates basically as "Blessed be the one who says Truth is the Name of the eternal God."

As one of the Naams for God in Sikhism is Satinaam (whose Name is Truth), it is perhaps contrasted with the Mughals "Allah hu akbar," Allah is greatest, as Sikh Army was created to fight the Mughal occupation and their forced conversions.

Very clear, a great spirituality, & Valuable statements, Harjas kaur ji,

I was just thinking about the translation of "Jo bole so nihal. Sat shri akal"
As according to your statements don't you think that the translation would be: "Blessed be the one who says, I honour the truth who is beyond time"

Anyhow Harjas ji,
I know i am taking your expencive time, Can you define the difference between Kal & A-kal or what is ment by Kal & A-kal ?

I hope i am not disturbing you.

_/\_Your brother Jasdir.

saidevo
18 November 2010, 07:01 AM
namaste.

shrI RA.GaNapati, a popular Tamizh writer who wrote books chiefly on KAnchi ParamAchArya, RamaNa Maharshi and Sathya Sai Baba, says the following in his annotated biography of KP:

Srila Sri Somasundara Gnanasambandha Paramacharya SwamigaL who spread the shiva~nEsam (love for Shiva) as the earlier pontiff of Madurai TirugnAnasambandha MaTham was one who took up extensive research of the world of spirits. He was interested in analysing the many births incurred by an Avi (soul) and the mysteries behind them. He would say concretely, showing evidences that if a name is given to an Avi in a birth, in reality it is not the name given by the parents who give birth to the soul or by others, but only a name that is 'set' based on deeper reasons, for the soul for that birth.

Harjas Kaur
18 November 2010, 11:14 PM
"who is “Spirituality Advocates”?"

I believe he was saying, "We people" and also "spirituality" are advocating or promoting the views which he described in the post.

However, "We & Spirituality Advocates" does sound like could be name of a business, haha.

jasdir
19 November 2010, 01:45 AM
I believe he was saying, "We people" and also "spirituality" are advocating or promoting the views which he described in the post.

However, "We & Spirituality Advocates" does sound like could be name of a business, haha.


Once a hindu gentleman decided to start garments store in the town, he decided to put the name of store, on the combine name of his and his wife name, his name was Subash sharma & his wife was kamla devi.

So the name decided for the store was: SUBASH KAMLA GARMENTS

One of his friend came and said: Have you gone MAD ?
Subash ji replied: NO!
Friend: Than why have you written outside your store SUBASH KAMLA means: SUBASH MAD ?

_/\_Jasdir.

Harjas Kaur
19 November 2010, 04:26 AM
"I was just thinking about the translation of "Jo bole so nihal. Sat shri akal"As according to your statements don't you think that the translation would be: "Blessed be the one who says, I honour the truth who is beyond time"Perhaps. The first sentence of Japji Sahib is the moola mantra.

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ikoankaar sathnaam karathaa purakh nirabho niravair akaal moorath ajoonee saibhan gurprasaadh||
ੴ सति नामु करता पुरखु निरभउ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि ॥
One Universal Creator God, TheName Is Truth Creative Being Personified No Fear No Hatred Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace~
~Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 1

In the first words of the Moola Mantra, the God who is Akal is called as Satinaam, so Satinaam isn't simply a statement that the God is truth or true, but that TRUTH is His Name.


"Can you define the difference between Kal & A-kal or what is ment by Kal & A-kal ?"Both descriptions are used in Gurbani. Kal describes a sargun form, and Akal describes nirguna.


ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਹੈ ਪਿਤਾ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਦੇਬਿ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਮਾਤ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥
Sarab kaal hai pitaa apaaraa|| Deb(i) Kaalikaa maat hamaaraa||
सरब काल है पिता अपारा ॥ देबि कालिका मात हमारा ॥
Sarbloh KAL is my Father and Destroyer of all, the Devi Kalika is my mother.
~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 174
From the above tuuk especially in relation to Kalika, KAL can be said to be Kala Bhairava, although most Sikhs would deny this and say it only means nirguna. But such logic would deny the obvious description of Kalika and render Her as nirguna too. That which is nirgun may have countless expansions and revealed forms as sarguna, but that which is nirguna cannot have forms and NAAMS such as Bhairav and Bhairavi (Kal and Kalika).
ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੀ ਹਮ ਪਰ ਜਗਮਾਤਾ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਕਰਾ ਪੂਰਨ ਸੁਭ ਰਾਤਾ ॥
kridaa kariham par jagmaataa|| Granth karaa pooran soubh raataa||
क्रिपा करी हम पर जगमाता ॥ ग्रंथ करा पूरन सुभ राता ॥
The Mother of the world has been kind towards me and I have completed the book this auspicious night;


ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਸਕਲ ਦੇਹ ਕੋ ਹਰਤਾ ॥ ਦੁਸ਼ਟ ਦੋਖਿਯਨ ਕੋ ਛੈ ਕਰਤਾ ॥੪੦੨॥
Kilbikh sakal deh ko hartaa|| Dousht dokhiyan ko chhai kartaa||402||
किलबिख सकल देह को हरता ॥ दुशट दोखियन को छै करता ॥४०२॥
The Lord is the destroyer of all the sins of the body and all the malicious and wicked persons.


ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਧੁਜ ਜਬ ਭਏ ਦਯਾਲਾ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਕਰਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਤਤਕਾਲਾ ॥
Srias(i)dhuj jab bhae dayaalaa|| Pooran karaa granth tatkaalaa||
स्री असिधुज जब भए दयाला ॥ पूरन करा ग्रंथ ततकाला ॥
When Mahakal became kind, He immediately caused me to complete this book;
~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 1468

Akal is the nirgun which is without form, unborn, undying, beyond time. From the Akal come the manifestations of various devatay and avataray. At a certain point in history the protection of Kali-Durga-Chandi as well as KAL Bhairav was evident, at least from Dasam Granth. But the Sikh will worship the ONE from which all the expansions, emanations and forms come.
ਜੈ ਦੇਵੀ ਭੇਵੀ ਭਾਵਾਣੀ ॥ ਭਉ ਖੰਡੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਰਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਕੇਸਰੀ ਆਬਾਹੀ ਕਊ ਮਾਰੀ ॥ ਭੈਖੰਡੀ ਭੈਰਵਿ ਉੱਧਾਰੀ ॥੪੫॥
Jai devibhevibhaavaanee|| Bhau khandidurgad sarbaanee|| Kesariaabaahikaoomdaree|| Bhaikhandibhairav(i) uddhdaree||45||
जै देवी भेवी भावाणी ॥ भउ खंडी दुरगा सरबाणी ॥ केसरी आबाही कऊ मारी ॥ भैखंडी भैरवि उधारी ॥४५॥
“Hail, O bhairavi, Durga, You are the destroyer of fear, You ferry across the ocean of existence, the rider of the lion, the destroyer of fear and generous Creator !
~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 1283

and also,
ਰਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਰਹਸੀ ਦਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਦੇਵੀ ॥ ਗਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਗੈਣੰ ਆਗੜਦੰਗ ਭੇਵੀ ॥ ਭਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਭੈਰੋ ਪਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਪ੍ਰੇਤੰ ॥ ਹਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਹੱਸੇ ਖਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਖੇਤੰ ॥੩੭੪॥
Raagaddan rahsidaagaddan devee|| gadgaddan gadnan aagaddan bhevi|| Bhaagaddan bhairo paagaddan pretan|| Haagaddan hasse Khadganndan khetan||374||
रागड़दंग रहसी दागड़दंग देवी ॥ गागड़दंग गैणं आगड़दंग भेवी ॥ भागड़दंग भैरो पागड़दंग प्रेतं ॥ हागड़दंग हसे खागड़दंग खेतं ॥३७४॥
Seeing the war, the goddess Kali also pleased in the sky; the Bhairav and ghosts are also in the battlefield.
~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 1170

jasdir
19 November 2010, 04:54 AM
Perhaps. The first sentence of Japji Sahib is the moola mantra.


ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥


ikoankaar sathnaam karathaa purakh nirabho niravair akaal moorath ajoonee saibhan gurprasaadh||


ੴ सति नामु करता पुरखु निरभउ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि ॥


One Universal Creator God, TheName Is Truth Creative Being Personified No Fear No Hatred Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace~


~Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p. 1

In the first words of the Moola Mantra, the God who is Akal is called as Satinaam, so Satinaam isn't simply a statement that the God is truth or true, but that TRUTH is His Name.

Both descriptions are used in Gurbani. Kal describes a sargun form, and Akal describes nirguna.



ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਹੈ ਪਿਤਾ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਦੇਬਿ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਮਾਤ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥


Sarab kaal hai pitaa apaaraa|| Deb(i) Kaalikaa maat hamaaraa||


सरब काल है पिता अपारा ॥ देबि कालिका मात हमारा ॥


Sarbloh KAL is my Father and Destroyer of all, the Devi Kalika is my mother.


~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 174

From the above tuuk especially in relation to Kalika, KAL can be said to be Kala Bhairava, although most Sikhs would deny this and say it only means nirguna. But such logic would deny the obvious description of Kalika and render Her as nirguna too. That which is nirgun may have countless expansions and revealed forms as sarguna, but that which is nirguna cannot have forms and NAAMS such as Bhairav and Bhairavi (Kal and Kalika).
ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੀ ਹਮ ਪਰ ਜਗਮਾਤਾ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਕਰਾ ਪੂਰਨ ਸੁਭ ਰਾਤਾ ॥


kridaa kariham par jagmaataa|| Granth karaa pooran soubh raataa||


क्रिपा करी हम पर जगमाता ॥ ग्रंथ करा पूरन सुभ राता ॥


The Mother of the world has been kind towards me and I have completed the book this auspicious night;




ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਸਕਲ ਦੇਹ ਕੋ ਹਰਤਾ ॥ ਦੁਸ਼ਟ ਦੋਖਿਯਨ ਕੋ ਛੈ ਕਰਤਾ ॥੪੦੨॥


Kilbikh sakal deh ko hartaa|| Dousht dokhiyan ko chhai kartaa||402||


किलबिख सकल देह को हरता ॥ दुशट दोखियन को छै करता ॥४०२॥


The Lord is the destroyer of all the sins of the body and all the malicious and wicked persons.




ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਧੁਜ ਜਬ ਭਏ ਦਯਾਲਾ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਕਰਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਤਤਕਾਲਾ ॥


Srias(i)dhuj jab bhae dayaalaa|| Pooran karaa granth tatkaalaa||


स्री असिधुज जब भए दयाला ॥ पूरन करा ग्रंथ ततकाला ॥


When Mahakal became kind, He immediately caused me to complete this book;


~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 1468


Akal is the nirgun which is without form, unborn, undying, beyond time. From the Akal come the manifestations of various devatay and avataray. At a certain point in history the protection of Kali-Durga-Chandi as well as KAL Bhairav was evident, at least from Dasam Granth. But the Sikh will worship the ONE from which all the expansions, emanations and forms come.
ਜੈ ਦੇਵੀ ਭੇਵੀ ਭਾਵਾਣੀ ॥ ਭਉ ਖੰਡੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਰਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਕੇਸਰੀ ਆਬਾਹੀ ਕਊ ਮਾਰੀ ॥ ਭੈਖੰਡੀ ਭੈਰਵਿ ਉੱਧਾਰੀ ॥੪੫॥


Jai devibhevibhaavaanee|| Bhau khandidurgad sarbaanee|| Kesariaabaahikaoomdaree|| Bhaikhandibhairav(i) uddhdaree||45||


जै देवी भेवी भावाणी ॥ भउ खंडी दुरगा सरबाणी ॥ केसरी आबाही कऊ मारी ॥ भैखंडी भैरवि उधारी ॥४५॥


“Hail, O bhairavi, Durga, You are the destroyer of fear, You ferry across the ocean of existence, the rider of the lion, the destroyer of fear and generous Creator !


~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 1283


and also,
ਰਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਰਹਸੀ ਦਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਦੇਵੀ ॥ ਗਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਗੈਣੰ ਆਗੜਦੰਗ ਭੇਵੀ ॥ ਭਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਭੈਰੋ ਪਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਪ੍ਰੇਤੰ ॥ ਹਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਹੱਸੇ ਖਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਖੇਤੰ ॥੩੭੪॥


Raagaddan rahsidaagaddan devee|| gadgaddan gadnan aagaddan bhevi|| Bhaagaddan bhairo paagaddan pretan|| Haagaddan hasse Khadganndan khetan||374||


रागड़दंग रहसी दागड़दंग देवी ॥ गागड़दंग गैणं आगड़दंग भेवी ॥ भागड़दंग भैरो पागड़दंग प्रेतं ॥ हागड़दंग हसे खागड़दंग खेतं ॥३७४॥


Seeing the war, the goddess Kali also pleased in the sky; the Bhairav and ghosts are also in the battlefield.


~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 1170



Anyhow Harjas ji, Thankyou so much for the reply
But i have listened something else,

Here are the Links of Katha on Kal-Akal by "Gyani Sant Singh ji Maskeen" (you might be knowing him).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXktBk889DU

The Katha has some parts

Enjoy......

_/\_Your Brother Jasdir.

Harjas Kaur
19 November 2010, 05:45 AM
Thanks. Sant Maskeen Ji is from Taksali sant samaj and hence ideologically opposed to sanatan interpretation of Gurbani. I have no interest in his katha. His views include some part from Nirmala Panth which has sanatan orientation but remain squarely in line with the anti-sanatan Singh Sabha Tat Khalsa reform movement. Naturally his views, interpretations and explanations will differ.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/145/335650548_c7630d5151.jpg

Fresco (circa early/mid 1800s) depicting Kali (ferocious form of Durga the Hindu goddess of war/destruction) on the walls of the Ram Rai Udasin Ashram, Dehradhun, UttranchalFresco was located 2 storeys high (photographed from the rooftop of a facing building) never been published before. To my knowledge this is the first time this image has been seen in public. http://www.flickr.com/photos/chitrakari/335650548/If Taksali sampradaya is correct and can ideologically nullify the sanatan devatay, and KAL and KALI are only mythological symbolism of the AKAL who is nirguna... why do murals still exist in Ram Raiya, Udasin and Nirmala akaras which were not white-washed by the Singh Sabha reform? Why do they clearly show traditional devatay which were nearly all obliterated over the past 100 years in efforts to suppress this past?

Sikhism is actually composed of many sects, some of which are not Panthically recognized yet have a history alongside mainstream Panth for generations even some during Guru Sahibaan times: such as Radhasoamis, Sikligars, Namdharis, Kabirpanthis, Ravidasias, etc. The Satnami Guru's actually passed sant mat teachings and esoteric interpretations to the Radhasoami sect. Naturally Taksal would not have access nor accept these divergent schools of thought.

Not everyone agrees with Taksal's Bhindranwale Jatha. But you are entitled to your own views and interpretations.

Satnami Sect:

"The word satnami is derived from satnam, lit. the True Name , a term used in some religious traditions including SIKHISM to denote the Supreme Being. Literally, a Satnami is one who believes in and worships only the True Being and as such every SIKH is a Satnami.

However, the term has been adopted by at least three religious bodies as a title of their respective sects. The Sadhs, a unitarian sect of northern India founded in 1543 by Birbhan and which is also said to be an offshoot of the Raidasis, employ this term among themselves. Probably, it was this sect of the Sadhs which was responsible for the Satnami revolt against AURANGZIB in 1672. The next sect calling itself Satnami was founded by Jagjivan Das (b. 1(582) of Sardaha in the Barabanki district in Bihar.

He began his religious career as a Kabirpanthi and, according to some authorities, these Satnamis are merely a branch of that faith. These Satnamis profess to adore the True Name alone whom they consider the cause and creator of everything in this world. He is said to be formless, without a beginning and without an end. Although they profess to worship but one God, yet they also pay reverence to his manifestation revealed in incarnations, particularly those of Rama and Krishna." http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Satnami%27s (http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Satnami%27s)

jasdir
19 November 2010, 06:37 AM
But you are entitled to your own views and interpretations.

For this time I have one beautiful poetry written by Hazrat baba bulle Shah.
I hope you will like this:

Not a believer inside the Temples, am I
Not a believer inside the Gurudwara, am I
Not a believer inside the Church, am I
Not a believer inside the Mosque, am I
Not a believer inside the Ashram, am I
Not a believer inside the Any dera, am I
Nor a pagan disciple of false rites
Not the pure amongst the impure
Neither Moses, nor the Pharaoh
Not in the holy Vedas, am I
Nor in opium, neither in wine
Not in the drunkard`s intoxicated craze
Niether awake, nor in a sleeping daze
In happiness nor in sorrow, am I
Neither clean, nor a filthy mire
Not from water, nor from earth
Neither fire, nor from air, is my birth
Not an Arab, nor Lahori
Neither Hindi, nor Nagauri
Hindu, Turk, nor Peshawari
Nor do I live in Nadaun
Secrets of religion, I have not known
From Adam and Eve, I am not born
I am not the name I assume
Not in stillness, nor on the move
I am the first, I am the last
None other, have I ever known
I am the wisest of them all
Bulleh! do I stand alone?

Bulleh! to me, I am not known____Hazrat Baba Bulle Shah.


Oh! yes am also the member of SAF.

_/\_Jasdir.

Harjas Kaur
19 November 2010, 06:56 AM
"Not a believer inside the Any dera, am I
Nor a pagan disciple of false rites
Not the pure amongst the impure
Neither Moses, nor the Pharaoh
Not in the holy Vedas, am I"I do not personally find Muslim poetry to reflect the beautiful ideals of sanatana Dharma, but thank you for sharing.


ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਨਾਦ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਵੇਦ ॥
visamaadh naadh visamaadh vaedh ||
विसमादु नाद विसमादु वेद ॥
wonderful is the sound current of the Naad, wonderful is the knowledge of the vedas.
~SGGS Ji ang 163

jasdir
19 November 2010, 07:35 AM
So are you a Khalistani? Reason I ask is majority of SAF members are.

:D :D :D :D :D Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Oh! i can't control my laugh..........ha h....................

Dear Sister Harjas kaur ji : I am your brother, & for you i am a Brotherstani.

And for the HDF or SAF or the whole world of my Lord: I am a Servent, so the result is am _/\_Serventstani.

Now! if you think that you are my dear sister, than i have the right to claim you that why have you not welcomed me in my introduction post when i joined HDF.

Anyhow, now i aspect a Welcome from my sister & also you can know more about your brother in my INTRODUCTION post.

Now please don't think me any Khalistani or Binladenstani or any terrioststani...... Hah


Respect you too much
Your brother Jasdir.

Harjas Kaur
19 November 2010, 07:42 AM
"Oh! yes am also the member of SAF."
I don't believe i ever read the introduction posts on HDF or comment on them.

I can't accuse you of anything if you deny. I prefer at this time to withdraw from conversation with you. SAF is completely suspect to me as a forum with pro-Khalistani and anti-Hindu sentiments.

~Namaste Ji

jasdir
19 November 2010, 07:43 AM
Sorry deleted double post.

There is no need to say sorry,

This is the fault of Typing Speed.

_/\_Urbro Jasdir.

jasdir
19 November 2010, 08:09 AM
I prefer at this time to withdraw from conversation with you.

God bless you my Sister.

_/\_Jasdir

Sahasranama
19 November 2010, 08:54 AM
Why is he calling you sister? I thought you were a guy. :dunno:



...never mind, just read your profile. sorry. :o

Harjas Kaur
19 November 2010, 09:08 PM
Hmmmm.:cool1:

Eastern Mind
19 November 2010, 10:04 PM
Why is he calling you sister? I thought you were a guy. :dunno:



Vannakkam: Now that was funny. http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gifAnd I was going to write this long post about how little we actually know about people on HDF. Words, a computer screen , a mish-mash of thoughts something like wikipedia, but far less organised. Visitors outnumbering members by about 10 to 1. But this sums it all up in a nutshell. Merci. Nandri. Whats the Sanskrit and Hindi versions?

Aum Namasivaya