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WTyler
24 November 2010, 01:19 PM
I understand that Vishnu is the sustainer/protector, though I would like to understand the deeper meaning of it and how it applies to life.

Can someone explain to me how Vishnu protects and sustains?

Could it be seen in Narasimha protects devotees?
Krishna protects the dharma, and so forth?

So when we need protection look to Vishnu for guidance?

Though is there deeper symbolism when it comes to his protection and sustainability? Almost as if he is the god of all living beings?

Also are there any stories that depict his being the protector?

saidevo
24 November 2010, 08:14 PM
namate Tyler.

My offhand thought about your question is as follows:

"sarvaM viShNumayam jagad--Everything in this world is full of ViShNu", goes the saying.

• His very name is from the dhAtu--root, viSh with its meaning 'consume and serve'. Thus, this world has another name 'vishvam', meaning 'that which is wholly pervaded by ViShNu'. Thus, ViShNu's vishva-rUpam--global form, is this vishvam--globe, itself.

How does he pervade this world and with what does he sustain it?

• He pervades the world with his sattva-guNam--quality of wisdom, and
• sustains it with his chetanam--consciousness/intelligence.

• Without the pure spiritual energy of his consciousness that is immanent, an atom would simply dissipate and the world will vanish instantly, like a lamp switched off.

• And his sattva-guNam which is immanent in all beings, both sentient and insentient, will ultimately assert itself, although it might be hidden temporarily.

• This is why the saying "satyam eva jayate--Truth only triumphs", for Truth is only Wisdom, which is another name for Knowledge, and stands for Brahman. It the meeting point--sandhi, of the sattva-guNam, that keeps the world, which is kicked towards the goal posts of good and evil by guNa-karma, balanced of these two forces.

• The very fact that dawn and dusk cyclically assert their sanguineness bringing about the meeting point of day and night, is symoblic of the ultimate triumph of the sattva-guNam.

With such thinking, you can work out the roles of BrahmA the Creator and Shiva the destroyer, yourself. Do post what you can work out about them on these lines.

Ramakrishna
24 November 2010, 09:46 PM
Namaste WTyler,

Lord Vishnu is seen as the sustainer/protector because He sustains and protects dharma and truth. When dharma is in serious decline on earth, Lord Vishnu descends as an avatar to restore truth and dharma. The most popular list of avatars are the 10 Dasavataras. But I believe there are other less popular lists with more avatars.

Of course, Lord Vishnu could also be seen as the sustainer/protector in other contexts, such as protecting devotees from harm, etc.

Jai Sri Krishna

amra
25 November 2010, 05:06 AM
Vishnu is sattva. In scientific terminology Vishnu is the positive pole Shiva the negative and Brahma the tension that results. These are all archetypes or pure modalities of existence, which are reflected down in this Earth. On earth these primal archetypes become mixed and are subject to constant change and modification, which is why the world is called jagat - the moving one. when a person creates something like a piece of writing, this creation is through Vishnu, when someone criticises this writing this is the negative destructive power of Shiva, from these two tensions a new result is created - through brahma - the person either revises his writing or becomes angry and tries to attack the criticiser thus giving rise to another process involving a triad. In this world evil things to survive must also use the power of Vishnu the sustainer. The powers that are symbolised in the person of Vishnu are impersonal but are given a personal form to enable humans to interact with it more easily.

Kumar_Das
06 December 2010, 11:20 AM
namate Tyler.

My offhand thought about your question is as follows:

"sarvaM viShNumayam jagad--Everything in this world is full of ViShNu", goes the saying.

• His very name is from the dhAtu--root, viSh with its meaning 'consume and serve'. Thus, this world has another name 'vishvam', meaning 'that which is wholly pervaded by ViShNu'. Thus, ViShNu's vishva-rUpam--global form, is this vishvam--globe, itself.

How does he pervade this world and with what does he sustain it?

• He pervades the world with his sattva-guNam--quality of wisdom, and
• sustains it with his chetanam--consciousness/intelligence.

• Without the pure spiritual energy of his consciousness that is immanent, an atom would simply dissipate and the world will vanish instantly, like a lamp switched off.

• And his sattva-guNam which is immanent in all beings, both sentient and insentient, will ultimately assert itself, although it might be hidden temporarily.

• This is why the saying "satyam eva jayate--Truth only triumphs", for Truth is only Wisdom, which is another name for Knowledge, and stands for Brahman. It the meeting point--sandhi, of the sattva-guNam, that keeps the world, which is kicked towards the goal posts of good and evil by guNa-karma, balanced of these two forces.

• The very fact that dawn and dusk cyclically assert their sanguineness bringing about the meeting point of day and night, is symoblic of the ultimate triumph of the sattva-guNam.

With such thinking, you can work out the roles of BrahmA the Creator and Shiva the destroyer, yourself. Do post what you can work out about them on these lines.

Let me ask you some questions.

You have offered these highly advanced and spiritually/intellectual taxing information. Most people can't care for learning anything. They want something simple and straight forward. Served to them on an average human level. Human communication and interaction is its own and not spirituality.

Truth and Wisdom are not common nor actually human. That's why in our religion Guru is almost next to God. And we submit our questions with humility and gratefully accept what we recieve and respect the Guru and try to please him.

You are posting all these things here. Which helps your karma and is a basic decent act as well. Because a Brahmana is by nature a preacher and serves God by helping everyone else in realizing Him.

What if the fellow asking you these questions actually looks down upon you? is actually doing this(asking these questions) to test your/Sanatana Dharma's level of theology (accuracy, sophistication etc) because in real life he follows some other religion and instead considers that to be the actual revealed flawless truth and his ethnic/genetic group to be the "chosen" for it, so he is just being condescending and silently reads this with amusement and decides to evaluate you and make plans, perhaps even against you and your religion?

Something to think about.

There is a necessity to guard and defend one's own dharma not just physically but also intellectually.

Sure this is an internet forum. But it is also Hindu. And we as Hindus have to cherish everything no matter what.

I have recently witnessed a surge in the number of members. But their posts are of a low quality. We've only been having more drama and dissent. Rather than an increase in knowledge and well thought of view points. These are distracting and detrimental instead.

An example;

in this thread

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6677

a user posts something that is actually Monotheistic



Interesting post yajvan ji,

When I think of the word bhaya, I have to remember this from the Srimad Bhagavatam: yadvibheti svayam bhayam. That of which even fear is afraid.


and this fellow responds to it


These paradigmatic concepts of Bhagavan are very interesting.

Like he can bend material concepts because he transcends them (and is the base of them in the first place).

Also concepts as being bigger than the biggest and smaller than the smallest. So as I try to get a mental picture of this concept I see the supreme expanding infinitely (Brahman) and permeating even the tiniest space (Paramatma).

And I respond to the bolded


Excuse me, what?

To which he has the cheek to say


Kumar... When I read things, be them concrete or subtle I always try to picture them. I happen to have an extremely image oriented mind.

So when I read this saying about God being smaller than the smallest and bigger than the biggest, I see the images I described. I'm not sure if the understanding of the concepts of Brahman and Paramatma based on this view is wrong, so I'm open to stand corrected, but I was merely sharing what happens in my mind.

:)

1) he says "concepts" are "interesting"

which means he doesnt actually agree/believe in them

I can be a 20+ year old young man and I look at a 4 year old kid's drawing and say "wow thats really good ! did you do it all by yourself?"

2) he doesn't know "if this view is wrong" ? Did I say it was? How come he responds as though he already knows that what he was saying is wrong? but does so on purpose, so that he can say something which is wrong but pretend as though he is sharing it genuinely and when called out on it deny sarcastically.

Brahman and Paramatma is the same. And he is saying the two fusing here as though they are seperate, distinct entities. So not one God but two.

even if he really was innocent and genuine. Who is he to come here and say something for which he has no approval of? Without examining whether or not what he has to say is error or incongruence with scriptures. Does he take us this lightly? Does he take us for a joke?

Are we supposed to keep quite and accept everything he has to say? Clutter the threads with useless posts and lower the standards of the forum?

Look what happened to the thread. The topic of it and the original post made by yajvan-ji was excellent and important. We could have had a fruitful discussion which could have benefited everyone reading it.

charlebs
07 April 2011, 11:10 AM
your brain is made from knowledge (brahma) emotion (vishnu) and will (shiva)

therefore you think in 3 dimensions.

If you think that you are thinking (your body is the one talking in your head) then there's duality. It is hard to decide because there's always a little voice that says "this can not be!!!!!!!!"

it's EQ and IQ. you can equate them to recieve what you want. High IQ is nice in a way, but I believe EQ is superior.

you can optimally use both female and male part of your brain (there's no difference in soul essence, you are just a soul) and think in 1 direction according to Knowledge (being neutral) Emotion (being affectionate) Will (being powerfull)

then there's the subconscience. It is your true brain. it only thinks in 1 dimension. and that is also your destiny.

I know this is all psychological babbling, but being autistic, it is my only talent besides making comics.

In a way, we are all Vishnu's, Brahma's and Shiva's.

PARAM
07 April 2011, 11:20 AM
Lord Vishnu is seen as the sustainer/protector because He sustains and protects dharma and truth. When dharma is in serious decline on earth, Lord Vishnu descends as an avatar to restore truth and dharma. The most popular list of avatars are the 10 Dasavataras. But I believe there are other less popular lists with more avatars.


I know only 11 Avtars-
Nar
Narayan
Matsyavtar
Krumavtar
Vrahavtar
Narsimhavtar
Vamana
Parshuram
Ram
Krishna
Kalki

Among them Nar and Narayan are together, and Kalki yet have to come.

Nar and Narayan where worshipped in Ancient India, Dashavtar Temple of Gupta Era also have them.

yajvan
07 April 2011, 01:10 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

viṣṇu - the all pervading brahman, tad vishnoh paramam padam - says the rig ved 1.22.20


He is also called viṣal. This word is rooted in viṣ - to overcome or subdue. Now we add in 'al' which is 'to be competent in' and we have viṣ+al, to be competent in overcoming and subduing.

viṣṇu is also called jiṣṇu - rooted in 'ji' , meaning victorious , triumphant , winning. jiṣṇú means vanquishing , conquering , excelling and as mentioned a name for viṣṇu yet is also used on occasion to define indra and arjuna.

It seems the viṣṇusahasranāma, or 1,000 names of viṣṇu may be of some help.


Also the Śrīmad Bhāgavata Mahāpurāṇa calls out 25 avatara¹.

praṇām

words

avatara अवतर - descent; More here at this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1073&highlight=avatara (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1073&highlight=avatara)

Harinama
10 May 2011, 02:31 PM
I understand that Vishnu is the sustainer/protector, though I would like to understand the deeper meaning of it and how it applies to life.

Can someone explain to me how Vishnu protects and sustains?

Could it be seen in Narasimha protects devotees?
Krishna protects the dharma, and so forth?

So when we need protection look to Vishnu for guidance?

Though is there deeper symbolism when it comes to his protection and sustainability? Almost as if he is the god of all living beings?

Also are there any stories that depict his being the protector?

Vishnu, Krishna, or any of His incarnations can be prayed to and they will provide protection for you.

After all, Lord Narayana is the God of all living beings, of all demons, demigods, and mortals, whether one realises it or not. All of these avataras have a certain trait, but for everything, no matter how material or spiritual the request is, Krishna or Vishnu is the Supreme to come to.

Vishnu possesses His sudarshana chakra to annihilate doubt, His club to fight against irreligion, the conch to invoke auspiciousness and to wake the soul from its sleep in Maya, and the lotus flower to bestow devotion (bhakti) to His devotees.

Just surrender unto Him, and He will provide everything for you. :)

Hare Krishna!

mohanty
10 May 2011, 02:40 PM
Here's my understanding of Vishnu:

Vishnu is the keeper of order and balance. The world is a constantly changing place and the upkeep of balance can not be brought about by a one-size-fits-all method. So Vishnu is not one thing, he is many. He is as many as it takes. Our mythology expresses this by recognising 10 avatars of Vishnu on this Earth.

These 10 avatars are all about context. Vishnu solves each problem by changing himself to suit the situation. He is not a static value. He adapts.

So when the world is all water, Vishnu is a fish. When non-violent devotion does not work, Vishnu is the monstrous Narasimha. When the world needs an example, Vishnu is Rama. When the world needs a master tactician to bring about the end of an age, Vishnu is Krishna. When violence is beyond limits, Vishnu is the pacifist Buddha.

Vishnu keeps order by adapting to situations. That is how he keeps the balance.

I am not as well-read as some other members here, and some may differ. But this is just my way of looking at Vishnudeva.

Eastern Mind
10 May 2011, 02:42 PM
Vannakkam Harinama: Just a point about responding to old post... Wtyler last visited here on December 10 or 5 months back. There is no reason not to repond to older posts, but just be aware of the high likelihood of not getting a response. of course, my message is probably redundant, as you most likely already know that.

Aum Namasivaya

Harinama
10 May 2011, 02:49 PM
Here's my understanding of Vishnu:

Vishnu is the keeper of order and balance. The world is a constantly changing place and the upkeep of balance can not be brought about by a one-size-fits-all method. So Vishnu is not one thing, he is many. He is as many as it takes. Our mythology expresses this by recognising 10 avatars of Vishnu on this Earth.

These 10 avatars are all about context. Vishnu solves each problem by changing himself to suit the situation. He is not a static value. He adapts.

So when the world is all water, Vishnu is a fish. When non-violent devotion does not work, Vishnu is the monstrous Narasimha. When the world needs an example, Vishnu is Rama. When the world needs a master tactician to bring about the end of an age, Vishnu is Krishna. When violence is beyond limits, Vishnu is the pacifist Buddha.

Vishnu keeps order by adapting to situations. That is how he keeps the balance.

I am not as well-read as some other members here, and some may differ. But this is just my way of looking at Vishnudeva.

I really like this point of view!

I just really don't like the word 'mythology' especially when Sriman Narayana is the Lord of lords, and the God of gods. :p

But it just goes to show you that through the actions of the Lord, He adapts Himself to please His devotees. Every time He incarnates, He does so for the pleasure of His devotees. This example gives us the background that He is always there for the living being, and can be found in every living entity. He is Vasudeva, the All-Pervading, and yet Purushottama, the Supreme Person.

Harinama
10 May 2011, 02:50 PM
Thanks, Eastern Mind, for the heads up! ^__^;

mohanty
10 May 2011, 02:53 PM
I really like this point of view!

I just really don't like the word 'mythology' especially when Sriman Narayana is the Lord of lords, and the God of gods. :p

But it just goes to show you that through the actions of the Lord, He adapts Himself to please His devotees. Every time He incarnates, He does so for the pleasure of His devotees. This example gives us the background that He is always there for the living being, and can be found in every living entity. He is Vasudeva, the All-Pervading, and yet Purushottama, the Supreme Person.

I don't use the word mythology to mean lies or legends. Call them puranic accounts if you like. :) Myths, to me, are subjective ways of history-writing, as opposed to dry objective ones.

Harinama
10 May 2011, 03:07 PM
I don't use the word mythology to mean lies or legends. Call them puranic accounts if you like. :) Myths, to me, are subjective ways of history-writing, as opposed to dry objective ones.

Thank you, Mohanty, for the clarification.

For me as a Westerner coming to the Vaishnava tradition, calling anything a 'myth' or 'mythology' strongly implies that it is folklore, legend, not real; whether the avataras of Sriman Narayana are metaphorical or literal in nature, the very fact that they are living and tell of Lord Vishnu's kindliness towards His bhaktas, make them real to me in the spiritual sense.

Dandavats!