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WTyler
24 November 2010, 01:23 PM
How is shakti seen on a daily basis?

Is shakti seen as the energy in all creation? Almost like the holy spirit? Or would that more so be considered a Vishnu trait?

Is she seen as a dance, or an energy?

I know this is an elementary question, but you guys are oh so helpful.

Blessings,

-Tyler

Ramakrishna
24 November 2010, 09:58 PM
Namaste WTyler,

It may seem like an elementary question, but I personally found the concept of shakti difficult to grasp. People often use different words when referring to shakti. You might have seen some members on here use the words "vibration" or "energy", and they are referring to shakti.

So yes, shakti is seen as an energy. Even now, when I feel like I have a good understanding of shakti, I still find it difficult to explain. I have heard it described as the primordial cosmic energy that pervades all existence. Shakti build up over time in temples and shrines due to all the praying and meditating that go on there. Mantras, especially when pronounced absolutely correctly, produce great shakti. I feel shakti best during and right after a long praying or meditation session. Some people feel very strong shakti right upon entering a temple, or in the presence of their guru or a spiritually enlightened being.

Shakti is also used the describe the feminine aspects of God, and from my understanding that is somehow connected to the cosmic energy known as shakti.

Jai Sri Krishna

WTyler
24 November 2010, 10:49 PM
Thanks friend,

What about in terms of the dharma?

Would one say that Shakti is Gods energy? Such as Shiva is God and Shivas energy would be Shakti? Thus, the aspect of God I can feel and connect to is Shakti?

Eastern Mind
25 November 2010, 06:14 AM
Vannakkam WTyler:

This may not help but ... perhaps an analogy is a Mother's love. You can feel her love (shakti) but at the same time you know where its coming from.

Siva and Shakti are inseparable, often put as Siva/Shakti.

As far as the energy goes, that varies tremendously form person to person even at the same moment. People refer to 'strong' temples. And yet the same two people may feel quite the difference even on the same day.

In daily life, some sadhaks look for it everywhere, always ... in nature, in the eyes of others, etc. Certainly this energy is not easily described. One way I've heard is something like attending a lecture, in a dull state of mind, not listening, when suddenly the prof makes a very astute comment, and suddenly your attention is right there following all his words. That's a bit what shakti feels like, just a rush of energy in the ethers. So often shakti is more noticeable in the context of contrast, as light is to darkness, etc.

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
25 November 2010, 07:51 AM
Thanks friend,

What about in terms of the dharma?

Would one say that Shakti is Gods energy? Such as Shiva is God and Shivas energy would be Shakti? Thus, the aspect of God I can feel and connect to is Shakti?

Sure, absolutely.

Or it's more that God is energy and Gods energy can form into Shiva for you.
Or yes you can call God Shiva.

God is really formless, an energy that pervades everything in the universe,
The female aspect of this energy is Shakti and the male Shiva, but like Eastern Mind said, they are really inseparable.

I can definitely feel the energy in certain places. Not only in temples, but other places, nature, there is a church in my neighbored where I felt it very strongly.

Maya

Ramakrishna
26 November 2010, 02:11 AM
Namaste WTyler,

Not sure if this will be of any help to you, but here is a thread about shakti and some members on here explain how they feel it: http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4994

I personally find it very interesting and quite a fascinating thing to read about. Hopefully it will give you a better understanding as well.

Jai Sri Krishna

BryonMorrigan
26 November 2010, 08:56 AM
This may sound goofy...but I think of it as the "Force" in the Star Wars movies. ;)

Maya3
26 November 2010, 09:12 AM
This may sound goofy...but I think of it as the "Force" in the Star Wars movies. ;)

Me too, but I still really like it, I think it's the best description but yeah, it is from Star Wars too.

Maya

Eastern Mind
26 November 2010, 09:37 AM
Vannakkam Maya and Bryon:

Funny, I've never seen it that way. I always though the 'force' was just deep intuition. But hey that's just me. I never have been much of a Star Wars fan as it seemed to me it was a story only, not really insinuation that there is some reality to some of the 'powers', more like a fantasy.

For me, shakti and intuition are two entirely different processes.

Aum Namasivaya

BryonMorrigan
26 November 2010, 12:12 PM
Vannakkam Maya and Bryon:

Funny, I've never seen it that way. I always though the 'force' was just deep intuition. But hey that's just me. I never have been much of a Star Wars fan as it seemed to me it was a story only, not really insinuation that there is some reality to some of the 'powers', more like a fantasy.

For me, shakti and intuition are two entirely different processes.

Aum Namasivaya

Oh, I'm not insinuating that the Star Wars movies have any kind of deep significance. I think it just works as a metaphor for people trying to wrap their heads around the concept.

sunyata07
26 November 2010, 12:45 PM
This may sound goofy...but I think of it as the "Force" in the Star Wars movies. ;)

Actually, Bryon, that's not a bad analogy. I'm not a Star Wars fan, either, but I can see the similarities. It's not very far from the meaning of shakti, although it's certainly a rougher interpretation of it. Good way of letting newcomers have an idea of what it might be akin to, though. :)

Om namah Shivaya

Maya3
26 November 2010, 01:49 PM
Thank you for understanding my analogy.

I like the word force, because I can kind of picture kundalini pushing it's way up through the Chakras and then giving us the ability to do things.
It's more powerful than using the word energy.

(Sunyata, I got your message the other week, I wasn't able to reply to it because your mailbox is full. I really appreciated your message )

Maya

Ramakrishna
26 November 2010, 05:33 PM
This may sound goofy...but I think of it as the "Force" in the Star Wars movies. ;)

Namaste Bryon,

I also think that's a good overall analogy. After all, George Lucas has said he was influenced by Hinduism and Buddhism and Eastern philosophy in general when writing Star Wars.

It definitely can be a good broad analogy to help some people better understand shakti. However, several months back I was reading on some Christian message board (I still don't remember how/why I was even there) and one of the members who supposedly had a good understanding of Hinduism said that shakti is just like the force in Star Wars, and immediately after he wrote that the other members on the board started laughing and just dismissed Hinduism.

So, it's definitely a good broad and rough analogy, but we have to make certain that people we explain it to don't take the analogy too far and think that it's almost like the exact same thing as the force in Star Wars. But of course ultimately a response like that on the message board was pretty much inevitable from individuals who were close-minded and ignorant and stuck in an Abrahamic worldview.

Jai Sri Krishna

yajvan
26 November 2010, 06:21 PM
hariḥ om̐
~~~~~~

namasté

Byron writes,

I think of it as the "Force" in the Star Wars movies

Its the force, it's awareness in you, it is the strong-force weak-force found in physics; it is every vibration in this known and unknown universe.

śakti शक्ति - power , ability , strength , might , effort , energy , capability .

Many talk of śakti as the Divine mother. Others like to list-out eight śakti devatā - indrāṇī , vaiṣṇavī , śāntā , brahmāṇī , kaumārī , nārasiṃhī , vārāhī , and māheśvarī , but some substitute cāmuṇḍā and caṇḍikā for the third and sixth of these. Some subscribe to 9 vaiṣṇavī , brahmāṇī , raudrī , māheśvarī , nārasiṃhī , vārāhī , indrāṇī , kārttikī , and pradhānā.

Now there is also another view as you would expect with sanātana dharma being so vast:

Some see fifty different forms of the śakti of viṣṇu besides lakṣmī , you may recognize a few names - kīrtti , kānti , tuṣṭi , puṣṭā , dhṛti , śānti , kriyā , dayā , medhā.
And fifty forms of the śakti of śiva or rudra besides durgā or gaurī , some of whom are guṇodarī , virajā , śālmalī , lolākṣī , vartulākṣī , dīrgha-ghoṇā , sudīrgha-mukhī , go-mukhī , dīrgha-jihvā , kuṇḍodarī , ardha-keśī , vikṛta-mukhī , jvālā-mukhī , ulkāmukhī, etc.
Sarasvatī is also named as a śakti , both of viṣṇu and rudra.
According to the vāyu-purāṇa the female nature of rudra became twofold , one half asita or white , and the other sita or black , each of these again becoming manifold , those of the white or mild nature included lakṣmī , sarasvatī , gaurī , umā & those of the dark and fierce nature , durgā , kālī & the like.When one looks 'under the hood' of saṃskṛtā akṣarāṇām ( sounds or phonemes of sanskrit) we find śakti abounds within the matṛikācakra and mālinīcakra scheme of viewing this language.


For me I cannot separate śrī devī's influence (śakti) from śiva. Yet that said the most profound knowledge on this matter ( as I view it) is śaivīmukham ihocyate. In a nutshell this says, śakti is the entrance, the suitable way to join with śiva. Or another way of viewing it is Śrī Devī (śakti) is the delightful (uc) entrance (mukha) to śiva.

How can this be? by śakti, being one's own awareness, that can be directed. This lively consciousness awareness can bring one to the perfect still-ness of Being, of śiva.

praṇām

saidevo
26 November 2010, 11:27 PM
namaste WTyler and others.

Some thoughts:

If Shiva is the awareness/consciousness as the Self in us, Shakti is the willpower of the jIva that prompts all our actions. In that case, if Shakti is pure energy, why are then some of our actions good and many others bad?

• Rainwater by itself is pure, but its purity is (apparently) affected as it courses through hills and plains and gutters. In the same way, the association of shakti with the guNa-karma of our prakRtti--nature, gives the apparent impression that some of our actions are good while many others are bad.

• Our actions can be deemed good so long as they are conducive to the knowledge of the Self and the resulting unity of jIva with the Self. They are bad when the result is encouragement of the feeling of separation between the Self and the jIva.

• Shakti is called the Mother because she is the ground of consciousness that fosters and nourishes all seeds of karma of the jIvas, conjuring up the web of mAyA of circumstances for the karmic forces to exhaust themselves.

Bhagavan Das in his book 'The Sciece of Peace' (chapter 11), explains the correspondences between Brahman, Shakti and PrakRtii, thus:

• The first triad is the three aspects of Brahman: chit-sat-Ananda.

• The corresponding triad of Shakti manifesting as individual consciousness is: jnAna-shakti, kriyA-shakti, ichChA-shakti.

• The corresponding triad of guNas in PrakRtti--universal matter, is: sattva, rajas, tamas

• and the corresponding triad in particularised matter is:guNa, karma, dravya

Thus, Shakti is present in every moment of our life: in our very act of awareness, wisdom voice of conscience, random flow of thoughts, premeditated or extempore words of speech, and deliberate or spontaneous action. All these aspects of shakti are merged in the One Consciousness of Shiva in deep sleep, but we as jIvas are not aware of that state of union and the result bliss, unless we learn to experience the state of turIya.

Notes:
chit-sat-Ananda--consciousness, being/existence, bliss.
jnAna-shakti, kriyA-shakti, ichChA-shakti--powers to know, think and desire.
sattva, rajas, tamas--qualities of illumination, mobility, denial/inertia.
guNa, karma, dravya--substance/matter, quality, movement.

saidevo
27 November 2010, 09:22 AM
namaste.

Since Goddess Shakti is the very breath of our life and the means of liberation of our soul, let us surrender to her with this prayer from Shankara:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=54511&postcount=10

Kumar_Das
27 December 2010, 10:00 PM
Namaste WTyler,

It may seem like an elementary question, but I personally found the concept of shakti difficult to grasp. People often use different words when referring to shakti. You might have seen some members on here use the words "vibration" or "energy", and they are referring to shakti.

So yes, shakti is seen as an energy. Even now, when I feel like I have a good understanding of shakti, I still find it difficult to explain. I have heard it described as the primordial cosmic energy that pervades all existence. Shakti build up over time in temples and shrines due to all the praying and meditating that go on there. Mantras, especially when pronounced absolutely correctly, produce great shakti. I feel shakti best during and right after a long praying or meditation session. Some people feel very strong shakti right upon entering a temple, or in the presence of their guru or a spiritually enlightened being.

Shakti is also used the describe the feminine aspects of God, and from my understanding that is somehow connected to the cosmic energy known as shakti.

Jai Sri Krishna

The concept of Shakti is extremely complicated and unique to Sanatana Dharma. It is defined and believed differently by different sects.

The word Shakti itself comes in different categories used for describing different things, differently. There are different types of Shaktis in Sanskrit even outside of Theology and going into Physics/Science...

Shri Madhva explained the incarnation of Bhagawan and he uses the word Shakti as well. And 'Shakti' according to Tharathamya of Tattva Vada refers to Maha Laxmi Devi and seen seperate from Vishnu.

In Madhva Maarg, concept of Shakti is used to explain Puja worship using Murtis.

Kumar_Das
27 December 2010, 10:07 PM
namaste WTyler and others.

Some thoughts:

If Shiva is the awareness/consciousness as the Self in us, Shakti is the willpower of the jIva that prompts all our actions. In that case, if Shakti is pure energy, why are then some of our actions good and many others bad?

• Rainwater by itself is pure, but its purity is (apparently) affected as it courses through hills and plains and gutters. In the same way, the association of shakti with the guNa-karma of our prakRtti--nature, gives the apparent impression that some of our actions are good while many others are bad.

• Our actions can be deemed good so long as they are conducive to the knowledge of the Self and the resulting unity of jIva with the Self. They are bad when the result is encouragement of the feeling of separation between the Self and the jIva.

• Shakti is called the Mother because she is the ground of consciousness that fosters and nourishes all seeds of karma of the jIvas, conjuring up the web of mAyA of circumstances for the karmic forces to exhaust themselves.

Bhagavan Das in his book 'The Sciece of Peace' (chapter 11), explains the correspondences between Brahman, Shakti and PrakRtii, thus:

• The first triad is the three aspects of Brahman: chit-sat-Ananda.

• The corresponding triad of Shakti manifesting as individual consciousness is: jnAna-shakti, kriyA-shakti, ichChA-shakti.

• The corresponding triad of guNas in PrakRtti--universal matter, is: sattva, rajas, tamas

• and the corresponding triad in particularised matter is:guNa, karma, dravya

Thus, Shakti is present in every moment of our life: in our very act of awareness, wisdom voice of conscience, random flow of thoughts, premeditated or extempore words of speech, and deliberate or spontaneous action. All these aspects of shakti are merged in the One Consciousness of Shiva in deep sleep, but we as jIvas are not aware of that state of union and the result bliss, unless we learn to experience the state of turIya.

Notes:
chit-sat-Ananda--consciousness, being/existence, bliss.
jnAna-shakti, kriyA-shakti, ichChA-shakti--powers to know, think and desire.
sattva, rajas, tamas--qualities of illumination, mobility, denial/inertia.
guNa, karma, dravya--substance/matter, quality, movement.

Namaste,

yajvan and saidevo, perfect answers.;)

Kumar_Das
28 December 2010, 06:48 PM
This may sound goofy...but I think of it as the "Force" in the Star Wars movies. ;)

Me too.

Infact the similarity with Star Wars is especially striking considering that the Saber is seen as a part of the Jedi, the same way the Rajput sees his sword.



Depiction
Lightsabers were present in the earliest drafts as mundane laser weapons that were used alongside laser guns.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber#cite_note-4)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber#cite_note-5) The introduction of the Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_(Star_Wars)) in a later revision made the Jedi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi) and the Sith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith) supernaturally skilled, eventually the only swordsmen. The lightsaber became the Force-user's tool, described in-universe by Obi Wan Kenobi as "not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon, from a more civilized age."[/URL]

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber#cite_note-6)

yajvan
28 December 2010, 07:55 PM
hariḥ om̐
~~~~~~

namasté

Lets look at this śakti for just a moment.

śa+k+ ti

śa = śiva
śak = to be strong or powerful
ti is for íti and iti means 'thus', ' in this manner'Hence we can say thus (ti) śakti is the power (śak) of śiva (śa)

As you would expect there is another view (not opposed) on this :
ti = iti =itya ( from ityaí) to be gone to or ( to go) towards.

Now we have to go towards (ti) śiva (śa) in this manner (íti) via śakti ( śak )

This is why it is said śaivīmukham ihocyate - śakti is the entrance, the suitable way to join with śiva. Or another way of viewing it is Śrī Devī (śakti) is the delightful (uc) entrance (mukha) to śiva.

But yajvan , this still seems a bit esoteric - is there something simplier I can consider when I think of śakti ?


Yes, think of śakti as uninterrupted awareness. Delightfully dynamic awareness that goes from here to there , better yet from here to here. This is why She is the enterance point to śiva. It is via awareness that brings one to pure consciousness. It is directed awareness that remains focused and one-pointed that delivers one to the stillness of pure consciousness.

praṇām

Kumar_Das
28 December 2010, 08:00 PM
This is why it is said śaivīmukham ihocyate - śakti is the entrance, the suitable way to join with śiva. Or another way of viewing it is Śrī Devī (śakti) is the delightful (uc) entrance (mukha) to śiva.

Namaste,

Problem is Shaivites would use that statement to argue that Shaktism leads to Shaivism!



Yes, think of śakti as uninterrupted awareness. Delightfully dynamic awareness that goes from here to there , better yet from here to here. This is why She is the enterance point to śiva. It is via awareness that brings one to pure consciousness. It is directed awareness that remains focused and one-pointed that delivers one to the stillness of pure consciousness.

praṇām

Deeply insightful, thanks.

From your learnings and personal opinions would you consider it valid to say that Shakti can be described as "awareness". I agree that Shakti is Dynamic. But wouldn't awareness here include consciousness as well? And any of consciousness falls under Purusha therefore excluding Prakriti/Devi.

yajvan
28 December 2010, 08:12 PM
hariḥ om̐
~~~~~~

namasté kumar_das



Namaste,

Problem is Shaivites would use that statement to argue that Shaktism leads to Shaivism!

I can see how this can occur, yet I wish to stay above the politics of this ; These words are not mine but come to us from vijñāna bhairava of the rudrayāmala tantra

… śaivī-mukhaṃ ichocyate || 20
śakti ( which is śaivī) is the mouth (mukhaṃ) or entrance ichocyate (it is explained , ucyate or explained)

This sūtra informs us śakti is the entrance…. but to what? The 21st sūtra informs us completely¹.
yathālokena dīpasya kiraṇair-bhāskarasya ca |
jñāyate dig-vibhāgāadi tadvac chatyā śivaḥ priye ||21

Just as parts of space are known by the light of a lamp
or the rays of the sun, in the same way O' Dear One
śiva is known through śakti.

praṇām
words and references

Vijñāna bhairava - the conversation between śakti and śiva found in the rudrayāmala tantra.
Vijñāna is vi+jñāna: vi is to discern, distinction + jñāna is wisdom, knowledge.
Bhairava - more in-depth explaination of bhairava can be found at this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17892&postcount=52

Kumar_Das
28 December 2010, 08:19 PM
hariḥ om̐
~~~~~~

namasté kumar_das




I can see how this can occur, yet I wish to stay above the politics of this ; These words are not mine but come to us from vijñāna bhairava of the rudrayāmala tantra

… śaivī-mukhaṃ ichocyate || 20
śakti ( which is śaivī) is the mouth (mukhaṃ) or entrance ichocyate (it is explained , ucyate or explained)

This sūtra informs us śakti is the entrance…. but to what? The 21st sūtra informs us completely¹.
yathālokena dīpasya kiraṇair-bhāskarasya ca |
jñāyate dig-vibhāgāadi tadvac chatyā śivaḥ priye ||21

Just as parts of space are known by the light of a lamp
or the rays of the sun, in the same way O' Dear One
śiva is known through śakti.

praṇām
words and references

Vijñāna bhairava - the conversation between śakti and śiva found in the rudrayāmala tantra.
Vijñāna is vi+jñāna: vi is to discern, distinction + jñāna is wisdom, knowledge.
Bhairava - more in-depth explaination of bhairava can be found at this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17892&postcount=52

Namaste

Didn't think that you wouldn't.

I was familiar with such a statement and remember something like it used to rationalize how Shaktism leads to Shaivism, that is all.

Pranam

yajvan
28 December 2010, 08:24 PM
hariḥ om̐
~~~~~~

namasté kumar_das



From your learnings and personal opinions would you consider it valid to say that Shakti can be described as "awareness". I agree that Shakti is Dynamic. But wouldn't awareness here include consciousness as well? And any of consciousness falls under Purusha therefore excluding Prakriti/Devi.

A most insightful question. I see awareness as applied consciousness. Others may vary on this view.
Yet one must consider a few other views ( more in-depth, not opposed to this notion) and this can be found in the pratyavbhijñāhṛdayaṁ¹ āgama.

praṇām

words

Pratyavbhijñāhṛdayaṁ is authored by kṣemarāja-ji, śiṣya of abhinavagupta. This word pratyabhijñāhṛdayaṁ means the
re-recognition of ones Self - in this word hṛdya is used as ~heart~ or the inner most , most dear, and hence the Self

Kumar_Das
28 December 2010, 08:42 PM
^ Satisfying and useful response. Thank you.

Pranam

yajvan
29 December 2010, 03:45 PM
hariḥ om̐
~~~~~~

namasté




A most insightful question. I see awareness as applied consciousness. Others may vary on this view.

I read this idea today and thought to share it with the HDF reader regarding śiva & śakti as an analogy.


Consider śiva as ink. This ink can take any shape. It can be any letter, any picture, any size. It can be script, block letters, it can be
saṃskṛt , mandarin letters, hyrogliphics, any shape or size. It is unbounded in what it can be. Yet it stays in the container as pure potential to be any squiggle one can think or draw in any time or place or space.

Now consider śakti. It is the energy to give this ink shape, style, form. This śakti breathes shape and form into the expression of the ink. With
śakti the ink goes from unmanifest pure potential to anything in creation.

Like that śiva & śakti manifests. Like that, pure consciousness in us manifests as awareness.


http://www.problogs.com/UserImages/177/Pen_InkStone.jpg

praṇām

rainycity
22 March 2011, 07:36 AM
the broadest definition of shatki is energy, which encompasses pretty much everything.