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c.smith
13 December 2010, 05:31 PM
What are the steps to enable one to "claim" brahmacharya?

Swami Sivananda states in his book "Sadhana" (Appendix II page 668 #403) that sadhana is impossible without brahmacharya. Despite this, brahmacharya is something I would like to pursue, more than just the celibacy that I already practice.

Om Namah Shivaya!

Eastern Mind
13 December 2010, 07:16 PM
Vannakkam c.smith: So in your view and readings, what's the difference between the two? That might be a starting point. There are also quite a few resources on line that may offer varying views. Did you search much?

Aum Namasivaya

saidevo
14 December 2010, 02:37 AM
namaste Smith.


What are the steps to enable one to "claim" brahmacharya?

Swami Sivananda states in his book "Sadhana" (Appendix II page 668 #403) that sadhana is impossible without brahmacharya. Despite this, brahmacharya is something I would like to pursue, more than just the celibacy that I already practice.
Om Namah Shivaya!

That you are pracising celibacy is in itself crossing half the ground-well. Perhaps the following books might be of help:
brahmachArya: practice: sivAnanda
http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/brahmacharya.pdf

brahmachArya: role: chidAnanda
http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/celibacy.pdf

and perhaps these links:
http://www.atmajyoti.org/sw_brahmacharya_page.asp
http://www.dadashri.org/brahmacharya.html
http://gopalkrishna.mission.googlepages.com/selfControl.htm
http://ezinearticles.com/
(search for brahmacharya)

yajvan
14 December 2010, 09:30 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté c.smith (et.al)

I wrote the following some years back and offer it for your consideration, perhaps there is some value.

- - - - - - - - - - -

I would like to offer a different view on this matter... please, I am not selling anything here. We all have our values on how to live and I have no agenda here other then to offer different viewpoints for your consideration.
It is important to share different perspectives, yes? Then one can exercise this gift of free will that has been given to us. So, let me do this in two parts below and two ideas. Please comment and give your POV as you see fit.
Part 1
Brahmacharya . What is this? we know that Brahman is fullness, the all, Bhuma. Charya is conduct. So , both put together is the conduct of Brahman.
Many have been taught that brahmacharya is continence, and this is true. Let me add a few dimensions to this.

Via continence (or the practice thereof) brings the fruit of tapas and is equal to yajya or yagya, worship. Yet the knower of truth that practices self-control ( another form of brahmacharya, no doubt) attains the same benefits as vedic rituals.
This ritual is sattrayana - sat ( truth) + trana (safety), another form of continence and self control. Sat is Being + tryana is the benefits of protection in every way. So, one is protected by Being-Truth, in every way through this vedic yagya and can also be accomplished by ( and therefore equal to dispensing) self-control.Now, what is of great import to me is the observance of silence, maunam is also = to brahmacharya. Why so? it is silencing of the senses.
What is the Supreme silence? the contact with atman. And when can this be done? Sitting quietly, transcending during meditation. Hence, meditation is silence and is = to brahmacharya = yajya. Hence, being in and practicing silence is of great value. This gaining infinite silence within oneself is yajya.

What else? anasakyana or that of fasting. It too is the silencing of the senses. It is said that if one can contol the tongue, one can master one's self. This anasakyana = self control = brahmacharya = yajya and all the benefits one can gain from this.
Another? vanaprastha, some say aranyayana or that of forest dwelling, really living alone or seclusion. This is the silencing of the senses (social intercourse) and one gains great benefit. This too is = to self control = brahmacharya=yagya. This can be done at home too during meditation. There is only one, you, going inward and becoming one with turiya, 'giving up' duality for one, this is yajya.

Hence self control is = to yajya =sattrayana=brahmacharya (and can be performed while at home).
Is it strenuous tapas? I do not think so, Yet choices need to be made, the exercise of freedom to choose. Continence is not always the curtailing sexual driving power, yet one of self control, and the selection thereof.
 
Part 2
What does Patanjali say of this? Why would one purse continence?

[from Chapt 2, "Sadhana Pada- On Spiritual Disciplines"] verse 38.
BRAHMACARYA-PRATISTHAYAM VIRYA-LABHAH 'When brahmcharya, or sexual continence, is firmly established, vibrant vitality is gained.'

When sexual energy is preserved it is converted into ojas, or spiritual energy. This ojas is such a radiant force that it uplifts all who come into contact with the 'brahmachari'.

I found this to be interesting ...in this society so much attention is put on this part of life i.e. passion and sexual activity ( one only needs to go to the magazine rack these days to see what is on the front covers ). This passion and application draws much energy ( ojas) from the body.

Yet in the West - viagra [the product] for impotence is offered and advertised regularly onTV, rado, magazines.
In Patanjali's sutras he points out "Vairagya" which is the progression of dis-passion , which is the opposite of viagra for "passion" and arousal.
In the highest state Vairagya - there is no desires for any object - either passion/emotion or the desire for objects. Therefore its called Para-Vairagha and is the means for Asamprajnata Samadhi.
This is why brahmacharaya is part of Yama and Niyama - its not a question of sex being bad, its all about building the foundation for Samadhi.
 
Tarati shokam atmavit - Established in the Self, one overcomes sorrows and suffering...Chandogya Upanishad

praṇām

TatTvamAsi
15 December 2010, 12:14 AM
Namaste,


hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté c.smith (et.al)

I wrote the following some years back and offer it for your consideration, perhaps there is some value.

- - - - - - - - - - -

I would like to offer a different view on this matter... please, I am not selling anything here. We all have our values on how to live and I have no agenda here other then to offer different viewpoints for your consideration.
It is important to share different perspectives, yes? Then one can exercise this gift of free will that has been given to us. So, let me do this in two parts below and two ideas. Please comment and give your POV as you see fit.
Part 1
Brahmacharya . What is this? we know that Brahman is fullness, the all, Bhuma. Charya is conduct. So , both put together is the conduct of Brahman.
Many have been taught that brahmacharya is continence, and this is true. Let me add a few dimensions to this.

Via continence (or the practice thereof) brings the fruit of tapas and is equal to yajya or yagya, worship. Yet the knower of truth that practices self-control ( another form of brahmacharya, no doubt) attains the same benefits as vedic rituals.
This ritual is sattrayana - sat ( truth) + trana (safety), another form of continence and self control. Sat is Being + tryana is the benefits of protection in every way. So, one is protected by Being-Truth, in every way through this vedic yagya and can also be accomplished by ( and therefore equal to dispensing) self-control.Now, what is of great import to me is the observance of silence, maunam is also = to brahmacharya. Why so? it is silencing of the senses.
What is the Supreme silence? the contact with atman. And when can this be done? Sitting quietly, transcending during meditation. Hence, meditation is silence and is = to brahmacharya = yajya. Hence, being in and practicing silence is of great value. This gaining infinite silence within oneself is yajya.

What else? anasakyana or that of fasting. It too is the silencing of the senses. It is said that if one can contol the tongue, one can master one's self. This anasakyana = self control = brahmacharya = yajya and all the benefits one can gain from this.
Another? vanaprastha, some say aranyayana or that of forest dwelling, really living alone or seclusion. This is the silencing of the senses (social intercourse) and one gains great benefit. This too is = to self control = brahmacharya=yagya. This can be done at home too during meditation. There is only one, you, going inward and becoming one with turiya, 'giving up' duality for one, this is yajya.

Hence self control is = to yajya =sattrayana=brahmacharya (and can be performed while at home).
Is it strenuous tapas? I do not think so, Yet choices need to be made, the exercise of freedom to choose. Continence is not always the curtailing sexual driving power, yet one of self control, and the selection thereof.
 
Part 2
What does Patanjali say of this? Why would one purse continence?

[from Chapt 2, "Sadhana Pada- On Spiritual Disciplines"] verse 38.
BRAHMACARYA-PRATISTHAYAM VIRYA-LABHAH 'When brahmcharya, or sexual continence, is firmly established, vibrant vitality is gained.'

When sexual energy is preserved it is converted into ojas, or spiritual energy. This ojas is such a radiant force that it uplifts all who come into contact with the 'brahmachari'.

I found this to be interesting ...in this society so much attention is put on this part of life i.e. passion and sexual activity ( one only needs to go to the magazine rack these days to see what is on the front covers ). This passion and application draws much energy ( ojas) from the body.

Yet in the West - viagra [the product] for impotence is offered and advertised regularly onTV, rado, magazines.
In Patanjali's sutras he points out "Vairagya" which is the progression of dis-passion , which is the opposite of viagra for "passion" and arousal.
In the highest state Vairagya - there is no desires for any object - either passion/emotion or the desire for objects. Therefore its called Para-Vairagha and is the means for Asamprajnata Samadhi.
This is why brahmacharaya is part of Yama and Niyama - its not a question of sex being bad, its all about building the foundation for Samadhi.
 
Tarati shokam atmavit - Established in the Self, one overcomes sorrows and suffering...Chandogya Upanishad

praṇām

This is a good point however since Brahmacharya refers to an Ashrama, it stresses abstinence from sex more than any other desire does it not? Since self-control in all things is important, like you've stated, sexual abstinence is given precedence since it is perhaps the hardest desire to give up.

With women like Aishwarya Rai, Neha Dalvi, and Shriya Saran, Brahmacharya can wait IMO. :D

Namaskar.

Believer
15 December 2010, 01:59 AM
With women like Aishwarya Rai, Neha Dalvi, and Shriya Saran, Brahmacharya can wait IMO. :D

That is quite a wish list Tat! ;)

yajvan
15 December 2010, 02:01 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté TTA ( et.al)


You offer valid points and what you say is true. Brahmacāra is an āśrama¹. If I may, let me extend the notion and not limit this
'halting place' to the management of one's sexual drive or compunction.


Where do we find information on brahmacāra? No doubt it is in patañjali’s yogadarśana¹ as a ni-yama (limitation, restaint) and
an ajunct to yoga. Yet where else do we find this brahmacāra knowledge? In the chandogyopaniṣad (chāndogya upaniṣad ).
This knowledge lets us go a bit deeper then the classic 'sexual control'.

It is here within this upaniṣad ( Chapter 8.4.3 to 8.5.5) that brahmacāra is viewed and explained at a higher level ( yet not opposed)
then continence. Note my position here is not to suggest contenence is less deserving or noble. It is to suggest that the yield of the
brahmacārin is beyond sexual congress. How so?

True brahmacārin's, says this upaniṣad, pursue and attain the two oceans of araḥ and ṇyaḥ. Araḥ & ṇyaḥ are oceans in brahmā's world
(the esoteric interpretation of araṇya, meaning a distant land). What does this symbolize? We can address this if there is interest on a later
post.

So brahmacāra is a station in life, part of yama and niyma, and also the brahmacārin that attains brahman. Yet I ask the reader to consider
these additional points.
Within patañjali’s yogadarśana, Brahmacāra is listed after 3 other niyama's are offered - that of non-injury, truth, and of absence
of stealing i.e. ahiṁsā, satya, and asteya. Why do you think brahmacāra is offered after these? If you think that the offers are random
and this brahmacāra niyama just happened to fall 4th in line, that would be a blunder in observation. So, your thoughts of why after the other 3?

And another consideration - we consider brahmacāra as the control of sexual desires, of sexual congress. This is in thought , word and deed.
Yet it is rooted again in self-control and the preservation of vīrya. Post number 4 called it ojas. Here I use the word vīrya meaning
vigour , energy , virility.

This is the benefit, yet there is a deeper meaning ( as you would expect :) ). One's word becomes true, actions becomes more fruitful. This is
called out by patañjali-ji himself in the 38th sūtra of his work and cooberated by svāmī lakṣman-jū. Let me offer the 38th sutra itself for viewing:

brahmacaryapratiṣṭhāyāṃ vīryalābhaḥ

we can view it this way: brahmacarya + pratiṣṭhāyāṃ vīrya+ lābhaḥ
In a nutshell:


lābhaḥ = obtaining, gain or aquire
vīrya = strength, valor, luster
pratiṣṭhāyāṃ = establshed; standing firm
brahmacarya = all the things we discussed above
praṇām

words

āśrama - a stage in the life : 1st is brahmacārin - the student, 2nd , gṛhastha or householder, 3rd is vānaprastha or
anchorite and 4th is saṃnyāsin , or sometimes bhikṣu is the renunciate.
Please note the following:
śrama = exertion , labour , toil , exercise , effort either bodily or mental. One giving effort to a stage of life.
Yet āś + rama : āś = to master or enjoy + rama = dear or beloved; This suggests enjoying and mastering that which
is dear - that stage of life.
patañjali’s yogadarśana - yama and niyama are found in sādhana pada -or chapter two on 'practice' - 29th and 30th sūtra.

Arjuni
15 December 2010, 02:10 PM
Namasté, all,

TatTvamAsi, I agree that sex may be the most difficult desire to control long-term, though on a short-term basis, appetite/food-desire perhaps feels more urgent, linked as it is to one's individual survival rather than species survival. (At least, it's so in my own experience, being "blessed" with a love of good food and a bit of hypoglycemia, i.e. "I will surely keel over if I do not eat that beignet!")

Yajvan, your writing on the subject is illuminating; thank you for that! I work as a medical transcriptionist, too, so I quite enjoyed your parallel between Viagra and Vairāgya. I already chuckle a bit every time I type the medications Soma and Inderal; now there's a third to add to the list.

Indraneela
===
"I wait the power of one like thee, O Indra, gifts of a Helper such as thou art, Hero.
Strong, Mighty God, dwell with me now and ever."
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

bp789
24 December 2010, 03:47 AM
Hey question. I remember reading on a thread somewhere here that we are not supposed to repress our sexuality, but transmute or sublimate it. How are we supposed to do that?

saidevo
24 December 2010, 06:01 AM
A quick answer: by chitta-shuddhi--purity of mind, obtained by satsangha--company of the spiritual people and works, sangIta--spiritual music and pUjA-bhakti--devotion practised by pujas. With sustained efforts, the semen and shuklam are supposed to go Urdhva--upright, instead of falling to the genitals and eventually transmuted to tejas--shine of the body and mind, ojas--bodily strength and jnAnam--knowlege of Reality.


Hey quick question. I remember reading on a thread somewhere here that we are not supposed to repress our sexuality, but transmute or sublimate it. How are we supposed to do that?

bp789
24 December 2010, 03:50 PM
A quick answer: by chitta-shuddhi--purity of mind, obtained by satsangha--company of the spiritual people and works, sangIta--spiritual music and pUjA-bhakti--devotion practised by pujas. With sustained efforts, the semen and shuklam are supposed to go Urdhva--upright, instead of falling to the genitals and eventually transmuted to tejas--shine of the body and mind, ojas--bodily strength and jnAnam--knowlege of Reality.

I guess I should probably take out the word quick lol, but thank you though :).

c.smith
22 February 2011, 03:29 PM
Although I posted the resource in another thread, I wanted to be sure that those doing a google search (which aside from the HDF search on the topic was helpful for me) could find it.

http://brahmacharya-celibacy.blogspot.com/

c.smith
27 February 2011, 06:01 PM
Hari Om!

Another question that seems to somewhat fit in with the original intention of this thread.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I've read it both ways and would like clarification. Must one be initiated by Guru and have Guru Mantra before taking Brahmacharya? I know people that do and don't fit into each category.

Eastern Mind
27 February 2011, 06:11 PM
Vannakkam C.Smith: I see no reason why one couldn't start without Guru Mantra, or diksha. Here's another link you've probably already seen.

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/virtue/ChapterOne.html

Aum Namasivaya

c.smith
27 February 2011, 08:15 PM
Hari Om Eastern Mind!

Funny thing you should post the link. I have the manual and am studying the lessons. What concerns me however is the first line of the Vrata that in part includes "I (your name) seek the blessings of God, Gods and Guru ...." .

To my knowledge (which is VERY limited) there is no "How To Be A Branhacharya" manual - it would be so much easier for those on the path if there were, especially westerners IMHO. Haven't had much luck on the internet with searches, but know as is the case with Guru, the information will come at the right time.

c.smith
28 February 2011, 06:16 PM
Hari Om!
Another one for those who know sanskrit (or perhaps it's in Hindi?). It's a mantra that can be said daily by those wishing to practice brahmacharya. Can anyone translate for me? Yes, it's a copy and paste, but it's important to me - please don't ban me for this one.http://hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

Regards,
Clayton

ॐ नमो भगवते महाबले पराŽमाय
मनोिभलाLषतं मनः 4तंभ कु| कु| 4वाहा |

c.smith
04 March 2011, 03:24 PM
I was able to find the meaning of the mantra in the above post in the strangest of places. Now I'll post the English version when I'm able unless someone else does it first.

Aum namo bhagvate mahabale parakramaya manobhilashitam manah stambha kuru kuru swaha.

Swami Mahavanam
01 September 2011, 08:34 AM
Brahmacharya means behaving on the basis of divinity. I mean when our behaviour & conduct becomes divinized, it is Brahmacharya.Brahmacharya is comprised of two words - Brahma(Divinity) + charya(conduct & behaviour). Brahmacharya is not limited upto physical concept only.Brahmacharya is highest discipline of life to deal with. when we are in Brahmacharya , we do not need to fight with our body & mind to observe brahmacharya - it becomes easy with better understanding and deeper grip on it. we start to enjoy life, we dont waste time in fighting with our body and mind for Brahmcharya.

Swami Mahavanam
Sr. Yoga Consultant
Divine Wellness

yajvan
03 September 2011, 08:52 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

An extention to Swami Mahavanam's last post...

brahmacarya - the conventional view: state of an unmarried religious student; a state of continence and chastity yet we talked of its components brahma+carya; brahma as the creator, the creative impulse of all + carya is conduct. So , both put together, it is the conduct of brahma, the source, brahman. The path that leads to brahman.


praṇām

Adhvagat
04 September 2011, 01:10 AM
Be sure to check 'Saivite Virtue' of Himalayan Academy, it deals extensively with Brahmacharya.

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/virtue/IntroVirtue.html

Eastern Mind
29 January 2012, 12:37 PM
Vannakkam: Just a story and some observations, between east and west. Its more about brahmacharya the stage of life than about celibacy.

The other day I was at the temple sitting on the steps taking a break, but watching other devotees come in. There are two families I observed. One family has 2 brothers, and the other has 3 sisters, all 5 in their early 20s or so.

So the two brothers are standing there chatting it up, about their courses at university, general observations. About one minute apart from each other, each of the three sisters walks past, and says 'hi' or 'Vannakkam" to the brother pair. It was obvious to me that they were trying to be noticed. Usually any person says hi to another person expecting some kind of return response.

No response. Nothing. Nada. The brothers just keep talking about classes and stuff. The girls just continue on into the temple to join the bhajan singing.

Now I'm thinking of the times I saw something similar in western high schools. It would have been very different. There would have definitely been some sort of interaction. The boys would have noticed.

For me it illustrated how deep the culture goes.

Aum Namasivaya

Believer
29 January 2012, 05:43 PM
Namaste EM,

You might be spot on in your observations and conclusions. But here is another point of view for the same situation:

To me a firm, respectful acknowledgement of the person who says hello to you, with a hello, how are you, is an indication that you mean respect for the person and are not thinking of him/her in base terms. Avoiding/non-acknowledgement is an indication that your mind either already has, or may develop ideas that you don't want it to, if you saw or acknowledged the person. It is a weakness that the person may either be trying to hide or trying to overcome. In either case, the person being ignored has been objectified and brought down a notch from a fellow human being who deserves respect. A timid ignoring at that age is a way of dealing with the hormones, and not necessarily an indication that one has gone past the allure. A Western kid striking up a conversation and making sure he is noticed is another way of dealing with the awkwardness of the age and the ideas that hormones induce at that age. These are just two different ways of dealing with the situation by Western kids or by these Hindu kids. Just another viewpoint. What do you think?

Pranam.

Eastern Mind
29 January 2012, 06:32 PM
Namaste EM,

You might be spot on in your observations and conclusions. But here is another point of view for the same situation:

To me a firm, respectful acknowledgement of the person who says hello to you, with a hello, how are you, is an indication that you mean respect for the person and are not thinking of him/her in base terms. Avoiding/non-acknowledgement is an indication that your mind either already has, or may develop ideas that you don't want it to, if you saw or acknowledged the person. It is a weakness that the person may either be trying to hide or trying to overcome. In either case, the person being ignored has been objectified and brought down a notch from a fellow human being who deserves respect. A timid ignoring at that age is a way of dealing with the hormones, and not necessarily an indication that one has gone past the allure. A Western kid striking up a conversation and making sure he is noticed is another way of dealing with the awkwardness of the age and the ideas that hormones induce at that age. These are just two different ways of dealing with the situation by Western kids or by these Hindu kids. Just another viewpoint. What do you think?

Pranam.

Vannakkam: You could be right. I'd have to be a mind reader. In general though, not always, I have noticed less raging hormones in Hindu kids. These boys didn't purposely ignore the girls; they were just so entrenched in their conversation they didn't notice. Even if the kids sit together for prasadam lunch after the puja, there just seems to more humanity that hormones, if you know what I mean.

Aum Namasivaya

Believer
29 January 2012, 11:33 PM
Namaste,

Even if the kids sit together for prasadam lunch after the puja, there just seems to more humanity than hormones,...
Concur.
That is the essence of religion - helping one to raise his/her consciousness to the level where one could experience, in Saidevo's terms (from his previous post), 'knowledge of Reality'. Unfortunately, most religions fail that test.

I wasn't there; so my perception about the behavior of the two youth in your story was a bit different.

Pranam.

Seeker123
01 February 2012, 02:46 PM
There is nothing I have seen in Hindu scriptures that state one needs to practise Brahmacharya for Moksha. Of course sanyasins practice Brahmacharya but it is stated that one can attain Moksha even from Grihastasrama. Remember all our sages - Atri etc were married and had children.

Eastern Mind
01 February 2012, 02:54 PM
There is nothing I have seen in Hindu scriptures that state one needs to practise Brahmacharya for Moksha. Of course sanyasins practice Brahmacharya but it is stated that one can attain Moksha even from Grihastasrama. Remember all our sages - Atri etc were married and had children.

Vannakkam: This depends on sampradaya, I presume, since it contradicts teachings I have heard.

Aum Namasivaya

Seeker123
02 February 2012, 01:22 PM
Vannakkam: This depends on sampradaya, I presume, since it contradicts teachings I have heard.
Aum Namasivaya

Yes based on what I have read in Advaita. Leave alone married sages our Puranas had characters like Rishaba, Janaka and Priyavarta who were self realized but lived the life of Grishastas. It is said that after gaining wisdom one can continue in Grihasta in which case he should follow all duties so as not to mess up the harmony.

Eastern Mind
02 February 2012, 01:36 PM
Yes based on what I have read in Advaita. Leave alone married sages our Puranas had characters like Rishaba, Janaka and Priyavarta who were self realized but lived the life of Grishastas. It is said that after gaining wisdom one can continue in Grihasta in which case he should follow all duties so as not to mess up the harmony.

Vannakkam: Actually I've never heard of any of these characters.
Here are some comments on brahmacharya by Swami Sivananda.

http://www.dlshq.org/teachings/brahmacharya.htm

I am not doubting what you have read, and indeed some sampradayas believe what you have said. I just don't share the same belief, but I don't see that as problematic. One of the beauties of Hinduism is its vastness.
A few hundred lifetimes from now, perhaps I'll figure it out for real.

Aum Namasivaya

Seeker123
02 February 2012, 01:47 PM
EM,

Rishaba was Vishnu avatara with sole aim of showing one can lead a Grihasta life and be self realized - at least that is what the Bhagavata Purana book by Kamala Subramaniam that I have states.

Janaka was Sita's Dad. Atri is well known sage. Priyavarta was Brahma's grandson. Actually he wants to become a Sanyasi but Brahma tells him he can be a Grihasta and be self realized and convinces him to take rulership. Even Vashishta had 100 sons.

At a large level if a religion had a goal that can be attained only when one takes Sanyasa it can lead to people losing interest in their Grihasta duties. Is it not?

Eastern Mind
02 February 2012, 02:11 PM
At a large level if a religion had a goal that can be attained only when one takes Sanyasa it can lead to people losing interest in their Grihasta duties. Is it not?

Vannakkam: Not at all. Maybe within an Abrahamic context, where reincarnation isn't considered as fact. But the way I see it, and have been taught, it's kind of like being polite and taking turns. "You go first." comes to mind. We householders support the sannyasins, and then eventually, in one lifetime, we too will be drawn to naturally delve within, to realise the Self, in nirvikalpa samadhi, and brahmacharya will be a natural state at that time.

The sannyasins, in turn, support us, with their wisdom and guidance.

Do we have a problem with women being the only ones who can give birth? Isn't that denying half the population that experience?

Not if you see the soul on a mala, instead of on a bead. This soul did have that opportunity, perhaps even last lifetime, or the one before that. I just can't remember it too well. :)

I'm not trying to argue here, just giving my POV. If you want to believe that you can raise awareness permanently up the sushumna without celibacy, go for it.

Aum Namasivaya

MahaHrada
02 February 2012, 03:05 PM
If you want to believe that you can raise awareness permanently up the sushumna without celibacy, go for it.


Like you said before this depends on sampradaya, in kaula dharma it is the opposite to your belief, highest attainment, or complete awakening of kundalini in this life, is not possible without a sexual partner.

Seeker123
03 February 2012, 01:55 PM
EM,

I am sure this question is as old as the hills and I dont want to keep at it. But to make some points.

1. I am not saying Sanyasa is not good - it is our duty to support Sanyasis. But merely stating that Sanyasa is not the only way for Moksha.

2. If Sanyasa is the only way I doubt our literature will feature so many married sages. Here are some more - Yagnavalkaya (2 wives) and Uddalaka (had wife and son). I am sure there are many many more.

Sringeri Sankaracharya Mahaswamigal who was widely regarded as a Jivanmukta says one can attain Moksha from Grishastashrama. But there may be more distractions. He also says that Gnanis may continue to live as Grishastas after Gnanam it all depends on how Ishwara wants them or Prarabdha if I may add.

I think the point is cultivating a mind free of binding desires (those without which I will be unhappy etc.). Non-binding desires are not a problem and no need to be devoid of any desire which is impossible as long as one is alive.

I have gotten a chance to reflect more on the last sentence of my previous post. I feel that the goal of Jivan Mukti after Sanyasa is still better than the goal of heaven after death or Mukti after death or in a future life time.

Eastern Mind
03 February 2012, 02:04 PM
Vannakkam Seeker: I don't view it as argument. The beauty of Hinduism is it has more than one school of thought. You have yours, I have mine, someone else has theirs. They all fall within the umbrella of Hinduism. I do not support your viewpoint, and you don't support mine. Like I said, this is the beauty of Hinduism. There is room for all of us. I'll leave it at that.

Aum Namasivaya

Seeker123
03 February 2012, 03:04 PM
Sure, we can agree to disagree but do reflect on the wide prevalence of married Hindu sages.

http://rajathathablog.blogspot.com/2010/03/married-sages-of-india.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashyap

Sahasranama
03 February 2012, 03:10 PM
It is indeed a simple fact that most Hindu sages lived life as grihastas, that is undeniable, but they also practices tapah and brahmacharya within grihastashrama and before they entered grihastashrama. The practice of yoga is not limited to sannyasa ashrama.

jasdir
04 February 2012, 09:55 AM
What are the steps to enable one to "claim" brahmacharya?
Only "The falling in love with god" can enable one to CLAIM brahmacharya, Nothing else is needed.

Now the question is: How this works ?
The answer is: Its the game of "falling in love" not doing, or trying, or pursueing love", Because.. falling in love means -- once falled there is no any way out. :D

Thus.. intelligent and sharp people can never know -- what is falling in love, because they want to know -- what is falling in love -- before falling into it.;)

Now how can one explain, what is falling.., only the one who has falled can know it. :(

Seeker123
04 February 2012, 11:59 AM
It is indeed a simple fact that most Hindu sages lived life as grihastas, that is undeniable, but they also practices tapah and brahmacharya within grihastashrama and before they entered grihastashrama. The practice of yoga is not limited to sannyasa ashrama.

I agree. I guess my main question is did they have to practise brahamacharya within Grihastashrama in order to attain Moksha? My readings on the life histories of these ancient sages suggest not - because otherwise it would have been stressed repeatedly. I am not denying that brahmacharya has not been praised or that Sanyasa ashrama has not been praised. Just that it does not appear an essential qualification for Moksha.

Eastern Mind
04 February 2012, 12:46 PM
I agree. I guess my main question is did they have to practise brahamacharya within Grihastashrama in order to attain Moksha? My readings on the life histories of these ancient sages suggest not - because otherwise it would have been stressed repeatedly. I am not denying that brahmacharya has not been praised or that Sanyasa ashrama has not been praised. Just that it does not appear an essential qualification for Moksha.

Vannakkam: Personally, I find history and puranic stories all debatable, and I take it all with a grain of salt. It might be fiction, it might be truth, and nobody really knows. Things get distorted over time.

On the other hand, if we look at modern sages alive today, or in the very recent past, there is much less debate or conjecture on what they have to say. I personally can't think of any modern Guru or Sage that is married. Whenever one is caught breaking the brahmacharaya vow, it becomes a scandal within minutes. The maths of Haridwar and Rishikesh, and aadheenams of South Inidia are filled with renunciate monks. I believe there's a valid reason for it.

Aum Namasivaya

Seeker123
04 February 2012, 04:20 PM
Vannakkam: Personally, I find history and puranic stories all debatable, and I take it all with a grain of salt. It might be fiction, it might be truth, and nobody really knows. Things get distorted over time.
Aum Namasivaya

I think we can learn a lot from Puranas. I doubt they would have misled on such an important issue. Even if we discount all Puranas the examples of Yagnavalkya and Uddalaka are from Upanishads.


Vannakkam: On the other hand, if we look at modern sages alive today, or in the very recent past, there is much less debate or conjecture on what they have to say. I personally can't think of any modern Guru or Sage that is married. Whenever one is caught breaking the brahmacharaya vow, it becomes a scandal within minutes. The maths of Haridwar and Rishikesh, and aadheenams of South Inidia are filled with renunciate monks. I believe there's a valid reason for it.

Aum Namasivaya

I agree with your comment on modern sages. If they had already taken the Sanyasa vow then they have to remain brahmacharis and if they break it they get into trouble. But if they never took the Sanyasa vow will the maths accept them? Will society regard them as sages?