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jasdir
15 December 2010, 01:06 AM
Lakshman brother of shri Ram chander always treated Sita as his mother. When he was asked to recognise the ornaments of Sita, he replied that he could only recognise the ornaments which she used to wear on her feet, because he used to bow his head at her feet and never looked at her face.

Success in spiritual practice depends upon formation of pure character and good conduct. It is the first mile-stone on the road leading to spirituality. Therefore, all the Great Souls emphatically stressed the need of maintaining lofty character. They described it as the basis of all austerities. Virtues, truth, meritorious deeds, strength and prosperity all originate from good moral character.

A person who cannot escape himself from the influence of lust does not deserve to be called a true devotee. the person who indulges in the genital organs or pudendum must born through genital organs. Nobody can escape from them. He alone who escapes from them is a true devotee.

Nature has given us the instrument of sex for the perpetuation of life upon this planet. If sex instruments are used for legitimate purposes, they need not become instruments of degradation. But when we fall into the trap of self-indulgence, we begin to descend towards the animal plane. It blinds our mind and dulls our wits. It becomes the cause of our moral degradation and destruction.

This is the sad state of affairs which is prevalent now-a-days in the world. The lustful persons are advised to procure their shroud, keep it handy and then do whatever they like. The relationship of man and woman is not to enjoy sexual pleasures. Their relationship is to produce the desired number of children in accordance with the medical advice and the teachings embodied in the Shastras and other holy scriptures.

As embodied in the Shastras, the husband and wife should have marital relations only once a month with a sole objective of producing off-spring till a child is conceived. They should completely avoid co-habition during pregnancy and also after the birth of a child till such a time the child is fed on mother's milk i.e. upto a period of two and a half years or so.

Three or four such contacts in the whole life for the sake of producing children are not harmful. They do not retard spiritual progress. It is also quite appropriate and desirable that a man should have two or three children to whom he may be in a position to look after properly. The children born of such parents are generally wise, obedient and of good conduct.

The aim of human life is not to enjoy sensual pleasures. Its sole purpose is to unite the soul with God. We should, therefore, always lead a pure life. The married couples should live together as if they were not married at all. They should have pure thoughts for each other. They should bring up their children properly and impart good education to them. Such people, though married, are as good as a celibate.

In ancient times, population growth did not pose a problem as it does today. Indeed, the need then was to increase the population. It was a moral imperative that a person should have as many children as possible. A man without a child, particularly a son, was considered sinful and inauspicious and was looked down upon. On the other hand, a person with a large progeny had a respectable place in the society. People had a high moral character. They lived according to the instructions of the wise men and the teachings embodied in the Vedas, Shastras and other holy scriptures. They were of the opinion that proper and legitimate use of the instrument of sex was vital for perpetuation of life on the earth. They preferred to have one or two virtuous children instead of large number of good for nothing ones. They considered it as their moral obligation and sacred duty to nourish their children properly, to provide them good health and education, and to build their character. Observance of celibacy was held in high esteem as the bestower of healthy, happy and long life. This had an indirect effect on the growth of population.

However, now-a-days, married or family life has become the arena for enjoying sensual pleasures. The result is that population is increasing day by day. The lustful persons are losing their health by falling a prey to a large number of diseases. They are unable to look after their children properly. The new generation is generally found to be weak, lean, wicked and characterless. A large number of families are engrossed in miseries.

It is the moral duty of the parents to nourish their children properly, to provide them good health and to build their moral character. If the parents fail to perform their duties, they commit a great blunder. Generally, the parents pay little attention towards their children. The newly born infants contract a number of diseases due to excessive and illegitimate sexual indulgence by the parents. It has already been mentioned in the foregoing pages that the parents should discontinue their martial relations during pregnancy and upto the end of the lactation period i.e. upto a period of about three years. In case, the married couple continue to lead a life of sexuality, the mother's milk would be poisoned and the infant would contract a number of diseases. Sexual indulgence during pregnancy impairs the health of the child. The off-spring of lustful parents is generally wicked, characterless, lean and weak. Frequent sexual intercourse during pregnancy is also the cause of several female ailments. This may result in abortion and death of the child before birth or at the time of birth or soon thereafter. There is no other remedy for these ailments except to lead a life of restraint and to observe celibacy.

Saint Paul advised the people of his country and said, "Love your wives as Christ loved the Church." In other words, they should lead a pure life. However, they did not fully understand the meanings of this precept. They continued to lead a life of sex and sense enjoyments. Saint Paul again wrote and said, "Love the Lord as if you have never had any wives."

Mahatma Tolstoy says, "One should preserve one's vital fluid. He should not only abstain from evil action, but should also keep his thoughts pure and clean and should not besmear the soul with the dirt of sins and evil ideas. He should, in other words, be a true and perfect celibate. The husband and the wife both should lead a life of restraint and suppress their sexual urge. With the birth of desired number of children, they should give up their relationship of husband and wife and engage themselves in the development and education of their children, who should be given proper guidance on the path of virtue so that they, in due course, may turn out to be true devotees of God."

Swami Ram Tirath says, "As long as men and women do not learn to live as brothers and sisters and lead lives of purity, they cannot hope to make any progress. Lives of persons who have tasted purity of existence have been happy, healthy and without worries. To consider our elders as mothers and others as sisters or daughters will raise a man to a high moral ideal and will relieve him from many troubles of the world. It also increases his mental and physical strength. Others remain weak, unhealthy and are victims of many troubles."

Celibacy does not mean merely to control lust and sensual instincts. It means to withdraw oneself from all the sensual desires. If we continue to listen to sexual talks with ears and see things with our eyes which stimulate passion and still try to avoid sexual urge, it is like putting one's hand into fire and to hope that it will not be burnt.

Celibacy (Brahmacharya) is very essential for gaining spiritual uplift. However, it is very difficult to control lust (Kam). Sri Shankra Acharya says, "The most difficult task for us is to control Kam (Sex passion)." Therefore, everybody cannot be a celibate (Brahmachari), especially in this iron-age (Kal Yug) when character assassination has touched the lowest ebb. That is why the Saints have been preaching, from time to time, to preserve the vital fluid even while leading house-holder's life, with a view to gaining spiritual development.

A sufi Saint, namely Abu Ishaq Ibrahim Garjoi says, "It is quite legitimate for a man who has a strong sex instinct to get himself married. By doing so he can save himself from evil deeds and other catastrophes." He further says, "I would have also got myself married had not the wall and the woman looked alike."

Viewed from this angle, married or family life is the path of high order. But it is regretted that we have little knowledge about it. All the great souls (Mahatmas) were householders. Kabir Sahib, Guru Nanak, Ravi Das, Sri Nam Dev, Raja Janak etc. all were householders. Out of those Saints who renounced house-holder's life, hardly a few could achieve success in spiritual practice. Otherwise, most of them were overpowered by lust (Kam). Saints like Shringi Rishi, Vishwa Mitter, Prashar, Machhander etc., all had been the victims of lust. Had they got themselves married and led householder's life, they would have not indulged with other women which is a great sin and hurls one straight into hell.

We should, therefore, detach our attention from all such things which stimulate passion, because where the mind goes the body also is dragged in that direction. In this manner, we can observe continence. the lust is not confined only to put the sex organs in action, but all the pervertions of the mind which stimulate passion are included in lust

In fact, it is a sin to read, talk or even listen to discussions about sex topics, even though it might be with a view to subduing it. A true celibate (Brahmachari) is one who treats a man and a woman alike. He is always absorbed in contemplating the Lord's Name with Love and devotion.

How Lust entangles a Man ?

Once an old man of about fifty narrated that he used to play with a little girl. Whenever he met her, he cut jokes with her. After a period of ten to twelve years, the girl grew young. But he continued to make fun and frolic with her. By and by with the passage of time, it so happened that his mind became wicked at her.

The instinct of sex consoles a man that youth is primarily meant for eating, drinking and merry-making. If he does not enjoy sensual pleasures in youth, the human life will be wasted in vain and he will not get the opportunity again. It holds out the false promise that recitation of Lord's Name can be practised in the rest of life. Fortunately, if he is inclined to worship and devotion and endeavours for the liberation of the soul, his parents and relatives make arrangements for his early marriage. As soon as he is married, he considers it as his duty to have marital relations with his spouse. The thought that youth is the only golden time for sexual indulgence, he crosses the legitimate limits and feels restless for its enjoyment at all times of the day and night. It degrades him and retards his spiritual development which he might have at his credit. It clouds his perceptions and dulls his wits. He does not feel ashamed of himself and cares little for others. He always looks for an opportunity to satiate his sexual urge.

Once Rishi Daya Nand was sitting in a state of deep contemplation. A woman came to him. She bowed her head at his feet and went away. When he got up, he came to know about this incident. He repented and walked hither and thither throughout the night and engaged himself in the recitation of the Lord's Name. He did not take rest at all with a view to avoiding any possible repercussion upon him so that his chastity might not be affected even though he had not seen the woman

Hasan Basri, a sufi Saint says that to observe celibacy (Brahmacharya) is far better as compared to keeping fast and offering prayers (Namaz) for thousands of years. To keep good character in every stage of life is useful. Observance of celibacy, especially in youth is approved in the Lord's Court. However, such a celibate is very rare. Another Muslim Saint says, "Observance of chastity in youth is a mark of Apostleship."

Once a young man asked Socrates whether he should get himself married or not ? Socrates replied, "You will repent, if you marry and also if you won't marry." This is how one repents, if one is married and also if one is not married.


_/\_Jasdir.

NayaSurya
15 December 2010, 08:41 AM
You have a right to believe what you will about the physical act of sex, though even this discussion would be considered a "Sin" by your post above.

But please allow another POV.

Eating, sleeping, breathing, digesting, sneezing, sex, swallowing, snoring, hearing, seeing, feeling and every single physical, natural body behaviour is completely 100% normal and natural.

You know what I find the most obstructive thing to spirituality?

Anger.

Anger brings the animal out...and though it may not be unnatural to be angry...it certainly isn't productive most times.

It's the thing which I work on, patience. This required me to have eight children, to be sure I learned very well this thing which I was not born with.

I won't address the full handful of muslims, xtians and whatever else those people you quoted above are as their cultures often fall below awareness. Paul encouraged people to stop having sex completely because jesus was coming back asap. He also propagated even further the idea that from this very natural act...sex...that a child is tainted with sin from conception.


"Success in spiritual practice depends upon formation of pure character and good conduct."

So normal loving husband and wife are not of pure character or good conduct if they take a moment to fullfill this vessels need for sex?

This truly boggles the mind, as I thought it our duty to serve our husbands and wives with as much quality as we can.

There are many ways to avoid "death" just as there are many ways to serve Beloved. I don't see any reason to say children will be born tainted and ill because their parents engaged in a loving mutual act.

It's absolutely not true. Children, good children... all over the world are born to such parents. They are not adversely affected or ill. Some of the grossest, most animalistic, sexually perverse men I have known in my life were at the very peak of physical health, morally bankrupt, but that has nothing to do with physical illness.

There is a difference between lust and a mutually loving act between a husband and wife. Lust can come to anyone towards anyone. But sex between a husband and wife is a mutual, wonderfully intimate act between two beings who have promised to serve each other...in all ways.

There are those who fast, if food is their attatchment, and those who meditate if speaking, thinking or moving is their attatchment, and those who are attatched to sex and yes...for those it would be wise to get this under control. Not everyone has a problem controling sex more than something else. Perhaps Sri Shankra Acharya had this problem, but to say that sex is the hardest thing to control is not true for all...try not eating for 30 days...trust me this is harder than stoping sex. Sex is so easy for this adult woman to control. So many of us have been conditioned since birth to control this aspect and so as the hormones recede we become as a stone to such things.

For the normal person, we are born without need for sex. Due to hormonal things our bodies begin to wake up and begin to seek these things, this is a time to keep lust in check as most of us are still too young for marriage. Then we become loving spouses and enjoy this blessed intimate time with our husband or wife...and then...as with all things...the hormone levels begin to drop and we are once again liberated from such things...as in our childhood.

It's good if you can develop an ability to control this in all phases of your lives, but it's not the only way.

Denying a spouse sex because you would want to further your own spirituality before such a time is upon you or them, could infact lead you back to this realm much quicker than you think.

http://www.forbes.com//2005/10/05/cz_af_1005healthslide_print.html

Here's a wonderful article on sex and why our human vessels actually benefits from it.

Here's some snippets.

"Sex also boosts production of testosterone, which leads to stronger bones and muscles. Men's Health magazine has gone so far as to call the bed the single greatest piece of exercise equipment ever invented."

"Wilkes University in Pennsylvania says individuals who have sex once or twice a week show 30% higher levels of an antibody called immunoglobulin A, which is known to boost the immune system."

"A study recently published by the British Journal of Urology International asserts that men in their 20s can reduce by a third their chance of getting prostate cancer by ejaculating more than five times a week."


Honestly, the health benefits aren't a reason I would continue as I would rather leave here sooner than later and such things only would prolong my time here. But, if one is going to say that sex causes "lean, weak" people I have to come and say how totally left field this claim is from modern medicine.


I was really inspired to reply to this because I have been at a stage in my life for decades where I could stop this activity. My beloved husband isn't. I do not mind the continuation of this special blessed act for him as it is my sole duty to serve Beloved in every single way...and I see my husband as the very direct embodiment of Beloved Shivaya.

This beloved portion here for me to serve.

Celibacy is wonderfully rewarding, I have spent years doing this and years not.

But, it isn't the only way, and those others who have fullfilled their spousal duties with honor, utter selfless devotion and service (which included sex) should have just as good of a chance of avoiding true "Death" as anyone else.

To avoid this duty and dishonor our Beloved spouse would certain bring us another trip into this miserable realm.

satay
15 December 2010, 09:34 AM
Admin Note

Jasdir, I see that you have made a very long post.

Would you mind telling us the point of this thread?

Eastern Mind
15 December 2010, 09:38 AM
Vannakkam Naya: What a wonderful post!

I reckon celibacy before one is ready to digging a well with a spoon. This Victorian "sex = bad" thing has gone on too long, and has far too wide of an impact.

Here are some nasty side effects.

- adultery, because if I'm not getting it at home, I'll get it somewhere else
- overpopulation - In Catholic predominated areas that oppose birth control, recommending celibacy as the only method, it doesn't work, and we have poverty stricken overpopulated chunks on the planet.
- weird or illegal sexuality - pedophilia, rape because people aren't ready for self-control
- AIDS and other STDs because its hidden, the great pretenders of celibacy don't take precautions, and wandering men (truck drivers, salesmen etc. help spread it)
- abortion - I can't tell my parents.. they think I'm celibate, and will 'kill' me
- bad health - as you said, science has shown sex is healthy
- unwanted unloved children from areas where 'Just say No' doesn't work.

I once drove with a Christian dropout past a seminary. He said, "I went there. You would not believe the stuff that went on."

My father in law used to sing, "Those robes were meant for hiding." to the tune of .... "these boots..."

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a time and place. The most common is when the sex drive wanes or is redirected in old age, and both partners in the marriage agree to it.

The second is for people who are truly truly ready, the future and present legitimate swamis, swaminis, and Gurus within the religion. But even there so many have fallen. If a swami in a mutt or one having practiced it for some time in the surroundings recommended loses it, then what does that say about Joe Normal out in the world, not exactly surrounded by non-sexual peaceful meditative environments.

I also don't doubt that there are a rare few individuals who just don't have much of a sex drive.

Aum Namasivaya

Alise
15 December 2010, 10:46 AM
Namaste,

I'm confused, wasn't Kama (pleasure?) 1 of 4 Hindu goals of life?

Have a nice day,
~Alice

Eastern Mind
15 December 2010, 11:34 AM
Vannakkam SA:

You are correct. IMHO, the OP is copied from somewhere, and it reflects the misconception that Advaita reality or other very high spiritual concepts can be applied to just anyone. If you're below the muladhara, then the goal is to rise yourself to somehere closer to the muladhara, which is the starting point for spiritual life. What our friend Naya had to say about anger is far more important. Anger is well below the muladhara, and we see people jumping around thinking they're operating from the manipura or some other hair-brained idea, and then when we confront them with that reality, they get mad at us, proving my point.

So if I were you it'd be 'in one ear and out the other' as it was for me.http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Aum Namasivaya

jasdir
16 December 2010, 12:04 AM
Admin Note
I respect _/\_Jasdir.

Jasdir, I see that you have made a very long post.
I can short the length of post, {IF NECESSARY}
So, waiting for the next coming NOTE, if it is very necessary to do so.

Would you mind telling us the point of this thread?
No! why to mind dear Satay ji,
But i was not expecting this Q: from HINDU DHARMA FORUMS ADMINSTRATION.

Anyhow the point is: "Chastity is life and sexuality is death"

_/\_"Namaste" by Jasdir.

jasdir
16 December 2010, 12:36 AM
You have a right to believe what you will about the physical act of sex, though even this discussion would be considered a "Sin" by your post above.
I am agreed, but it is also mentioned in ONE OF THE LINE IN POST, which is now highlighted with RED colour.

But please allow another POV.
Respected forum, Respected members, Respected point of views, Respected discussions, Who am "I" to allow others.
_/\_Jasdir.

You know what I find the most obstructive thing to spirituality?"Anger".
Again am agreed,
Creator has given different qualities & disqualities to its creation.

Anger brings the animal out...
HINDU DHARMA FORUMS, a place of peace.

_/\_Jasdir.

sm78
16 December 2010, 12:39 AM
Namaste,

I'm confused, wasn't Kama (pleasure?) 1 of 4 Hindu goals of life?

Have a nice day,
~Alice

You are right. It is. Time to time, I have seen an upsurge of posts on the merits of celibacy, brahmacharya and the wickedness of sex. I guess these people are neither enjoying sex, nor can get over it.

jasdir
16 December 2010, 12:53 AM
I guess
But! not sure, Why?.

Sahasranama
16 December 2010, 01:12 AM
Did you write this yourself or was it a copy paste job?

jasdir
16 December 2010, 02:52 AM
Did you write this yourself or was it a copy paste job?
I wrote this myself.
But! Sahasranama ji, i was wondring the reason of your Q:

_/\_Jasdir.

Sahasranama
16 December 2010, 03:17 AM
I was wondering why you are wondering. :)

Often large texts are copied from somewhere else, I was just curious about it.

jasdir
16 December 2010, 03:58 AM
Often large texts are copied from somewhere else, I was just curious about it.
Eastrenmind ji, is also very Curious, infact SURE about it.

_/\_Jasdir.

NayaSurya
16 December 2010, 05:36 AM
Because this text is on the internet. On your blog, but also in another location?

You may have put together these bits, but the words...you infact did copy and paste.

http://www.spiritualismmba.nstemp.com/True2.htm (http://www.spiritualismmba.nstemp.com/True2.htm)


"Good Moral Character

Success in spiritual practice depends upon formation of pure character and good conduct. It is the first mile-stone on the road leading to spirituality. Therefore, all the Great Souls emphatically stressed the need of maintaining lofty character. They described it as the basis of all austerities. Virtues, truth, meritorious deeds, strength and prosperity all originate from good moral character.
The mind enjoys various sense pleasures through the five senses of perception (i.e. eyes, ears, tongue, nose and skin) and five organs of action (i.e. sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch). All these ten senses derive pleasure by contact with the outer objects only. These pleasures are all external. They cannot satisfy the mind and the senses, and true happiness cannot be achieved. Success in spiritual practice can be gained only by turning these senses away from the worldly objects and by going within.
Guru Arjan Sahib says :
He who keeps ten sense-organs under control,
His soul is illuminated for sure. (M.5 Gauri 236-14)

Kabir Sahib also states the same truth :
As long as the mind is not detached from passions,
Till then, the disciple cannot attain true happiness.

The major part of good conduct comprises a life of continence which means purity of mind, word and deed. It comprises control over the sex-production organs. With it, all other sense organs are automatically put under control. The control of sense organs is very essential in all walks of life. Especially in spirituality, without continence (Brahmacharya), the soul cannot ascend higher spiritual regions. Therefore, all the Rishis and Munis, sages and seers laid great stress on the preservation of semen. The loss of one drop of semen leads to death and its preservation bestows life.

Chastity is life and sexuality is death."


This is the sad state of affairs which is prevalent now-a-days in the world. The lustful persons are advised to procure their shroud, keep it handy and then do whatever they like. The relationship of man and woman is not to enjoy sexual pleasures. Their relationship is to produce the desired number of children in accordance with the medical advice and the teachings embodied in the Shastras and other holy scriptures.
As embodied in the Shastras, the husband and wife should have marital relations only once a month with a sole objective of producing off-spring till a child is conceived. They should completely avoid co-habition during pregnancy and also after the birth of a child till such a time the child is fed on mother's milk i.e. upto a period of two and a half years or so.
Three or four such contacts in the whole life for the sake of producing children are not harmful. They do not retard spiritual progress. It is also quite appropriate and desirable that a man should have two or three children to whom he may be in a position to look after properly. The children born of such parents are generally wise, obedient and of good conduct.
The aim of human life is not to enjoy sensual pleasures. Its sole purpose is to unite the soul with God. We should, therefore, always lead a pure life. The married couples should live together as if they were not married at all. They should have pure thoughts for each other. They should bring up their children properly and impart good education to them. Such people, though married, are as good as a celibate.


[/URL]

Birth Control

In ancient times, population growth did not pose a problem as it does today. Indeed, the need then was to increase the population. It was a moral imperative that a person should have as many children as possible. A man without a child, particularly a son, was considered sinful and inauspicious and was looked down upon. On the other hand, a person with a large progeny had a respectable place in the society. People had a high moral character. They lived according to the instructions of the wise men and the teachings embodied in the Vedas, Shastras and other holy scriptures. They were of the opinion that proper and legitimate use of the instrument of sex was vital for perpetuation of life on the earth. They preferred to have one or two virtuous children instead of large number of good for nothing ones. They considered it as their moral obligation and sacred duty to nourish their children properly, to provide them good health and education, and to build their character. Observance of celibacy was held in high esteem as the bestower of healthy, happy and long life. This had an indirect effect on the growth of population.

However, now-a-days, married or family life has become the arena for enjoying sensual pleasures. The result is that population is increasing day by day. The lustful persons are losing their health by falling a prey to a large number of diseases. They are unable to look after their children properly. The new generation is generally found to be weak, lean, wicked and characterless. A large number of families are engrossed in miseries. "
This comes from this main site-
[URL]http://www.spiritualismmba.nstemp.com/sacha_sauda.htm#Mastana Shah Balochistani Ashram (http://www.spiritualismmba.nstemp.com/True2.htm)

NayaSurya
16 December 2010, 05:50 AM
After reading the entire page, I can now see why you didn't take the whole portion and subject us to it. Probably wouldn't have gone over so well.:p

Though, it is very enlightening for me this morning.


"Kabir Sahib says:
A woman is sweet like candy.
She destroys them all who touch her.
Those who are attuned to the Guru's feet,
should not go near her.
A woman, little or old, what to speak of
the young is highly poisonous.
The enemy kills with subtle tricks but a woman
kills with alluring charms and smiles.
Don't gaze at her even absent-mindedly.
Mere gazing will destroy you.
Even if you treat a woman as a real sister,
and she may treat you as her real brother.
Beware ! keep yourself at a distance from her,
if you want to save yourself.
The very sight of her is poisonous.
It makes the mind deceptive.
A woman charms a man by brightening her eyes
with collyrium, dressing her hair and by putting a
sweet-smelling mehndi on her hands.
And looks alluring, but truly in reality,
She is a veritable tiger,
and devours a man into pieces.
A woman is beautiful like gold,
yet she emits always evil smell.
If she be your mother, do not sit near her.
A woman plays many tricks
to deprive a man of his valuable life.
Sometimes she sings and sometimes weeps.
Sayeth Kabir, only a true disciple knows this play.
O men and women ! Listen,
What the True Master say;
A woman produces only poisonous fruits,
Do not even taste them. "

jasdir
16 December 2010, 06:36 AM
Because this text is on the internet. On your blog, but also in another location?

You may have put together these bits, but the words...you infact did copy and paste.


:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: .
_/\_Jasdir.

jasdir
16 December 2010, 06:37 AM
After reading the entire page, I can now see why you didn't take the whole portion and subject us to it. Probably wouldn't have gone over so well.:p

Though, it is very enlightening for me this morning.


"Kabir Sahib says:
A woman is sweet like candy.
She destroys them all who touch her.
Those who are attuned to the Guru's feet,
should not go near her.
A woman, little or old, what to speak of
the young is highly poisonous.
The enemy kills with subtle tricks but a woman
kills with alluring charms and smiles.
Don't gaze at her even absent-mindedly.
Mere gazing will destroy you.
Even if you treat a woman as a real sister,
and she may treat you as her real brother.
Beware ! keep yourself at a distance from her,
if you want to save yourself.
The very sight of her is poisonous.
It makes the mind deceptive.
A woman charms a man by brightening her eyes
with collyrium, dressing her hair and by putting a
sweet-smelling mehndi on her hands.
And looks alluring, but truly in reality,
She is a veritable tiger,
and devours a man into pieces.
A woman is beautiful like gold,
yet she emits always evil smell.
If she be your mother, do not sit near her.
A woman plays many tricks
to deprive a man of his valuable life.
Sometimes she sings and sometimes weeps.
Sayeth Kabir, only a true disciple knows this play.
O men and women ! Listen,
What the True Master say;
A woman produces only poisonous fruits,
Do not even taste them. "

:dunno:
_/\_Jasdir.

NayaSurya
16 December 2010, 06:42 AM
I was a being born in the dawn of computers.

Each of us, for better or worse, leaves a foot print which trails behind us upon the internet...and it is easy to read these...footprints on places such as guru's feet...and blogs.

This is something my own son recently had difficulty with as things he had written and posted were copied by another and reposted as their own property. Fortunately a blessed angel came forward to show this other young person that this is illegal.

Hugs, no harm no foul<3

Eastern Mind
16 December 2010, 06:50 AM
Vannakkam Jasdir:

Fools we are not! I taught for 28 years and I know when the language shifts incredibly that here is copying (plagiarism) involved. Its easy to spot when a student gets 'help' from a parent or an older sibling.

Having said that, there is no harm in providing links on the internet. Copyright is there to stop commercial use. (Profiting from the work of others)

Many of us here alter our Guru's words into our own but we often don't just quote directly, especially long passages.

The part when you claimed it as your own is forgivable from my point of view. Many of us here either know of others or have worked with ESL people. (English as a Second Language) . Your mother tongue is either Hindi, or Punjabi, am I correct.

Language is such a barrier. Perhaps there are few forums on the internet in languages besides English. Clearly this one is in English. So I would urge you just to use your own words in the future. The meaning will still come across clear enough for most of us to get the message you want to say.

For me, and perhaps some others, its a call to be careful with our language depending on whom we are addressing so that all can understand.

Regards..

Aum Namasivaya

NayaSurya
16 December 2010, 06:56 AM
Vannakkam Jasdir:

Fools we are not!


Speak for yourself!:p

This fool had children up at 4 am and they swore that they would have school. But from high within the tower of our home I saw the glaze of thick ice upon our snow covered yard. So in my yoga outfit I walk out the door and upon the porch and decided to show them the rail of our stairs. I put one bare foot upon the step which was covered in 2 inches of solid ice and nearly broke my leg as I fell down the concrete stairs. LOL

Because of the ice, I couldn't even get back up. So I used kitchen towels to cover a place on each stair and climbed back up the stairs son my hands and knees in the freezing rain. I am currently nursing two broken toes, at the very least, the rest of my leg is so swollen....I can't tell what's broke.

:D <-------fool!

One positive thing, because of my long periods of meditation in very tight positions I have become very limber which prevented me from breaking my leg which was still upon the top of the porch when I fell, it bent completely behind me without one issue. All this prayer is very healthy for me!

jasdir
16 December 2010, 07:05 AM
Vannakkam Jasdir:

Fools we are not! I taught for 28 years and I know when the language shifts incredibly that here is copying (plagiarism) involved. Its easy to spot when a student gets 'help' from a parent or an older sibling.

Having said that, there is no harm in providing links on the internet. Copyright is there to stop commercial use. (Profiting from the work of others)

Many of us here alter our Guru's words into our own but we often don't just quote directly, especially long passages.

The part when you claimed it as your own is forgivable from my point of view. Many of us here either know of others or have worked with ESL people. (English as a Second Language) . Your mother tongue is either Hindi, or Punjabi, am I correct.

Language is such a barrier. Perhaps there are few forums on the internet in languages besides English. Clearly this one is in English. So I would urge you just to use your own words in the future. The meaning will still come across clear enough for most of us to get the message you want to say.

For me, and perhaps some others, its a call to be careful with our language depending on whom we are addressing so that all can understand.

Regards..

Aum Namasivaya
Eastren Mind Ji,
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Jasdir.


(Profiting from the work of others)
I will be greatly & Heartly thankful to you if you can please tell me that:

Which profit i am getting ?

Once again, _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Jasdir.

Eastern Mind
16 December 2010, 07:06 AM
Vannakkam: Toes ... karma ... ??? ... Perhaps it was due to kicking?

Aum Namasivaya

NayaSurya
16 December 2010, 07:13 AM
Jasdir, the profit of taking others writing without giving them credit is appearing to be something you are not...yet.


Broken toes karma because of impatience = more patience practice.:Cool:

jasdir
16 December 2010, 07:20 AM
Each of us, for better or worse, leaves a foot print

Surya ji,
For me it is better or worse ?

_/\_Jasdir.

jasdir
16 December 2010, 07:25 AM
Jasdir, the profit of taking others writing without giving them credit is appearing to be something you are not...yet.

So, What was you thinking about "Jasdir" ?

_/\_Jasdir.

NayaSurya
16 December 2010, 07:26 AM
It shows you have good intentions, motives. Which is why I mention Guru's feet.

Eastern mind says true wisdom, he says use your words, and I will expand this to "be who you are"

This is very good.

jasdir
16 December 2010, 07:36 AM
It shows you have good intentions, motives. Which is why I mention Guru's feet.

Eastern mind says true wisdom, he says use your words, and I will expand this to "be who you are"

This is very good.
>>>Eastern mind says true wisdom, he says use your words, and I will expand this to "be who you are"
This is very good.<<< Am agreed with Respected EM ji,

Because you are the explorer of this whole Copy & Paste.
And as i have explored myself in my introduction post when i joined HDF
So i value, What are you thinking about Jasdir ? or Who am "I' ?

_/\_Jasdir.

Eastern Mind
16 December 2010, 07:40 AM
Vannakkam Jasdir: So now the proper thing is to apologise (say you're sorry) and just move on with the full intent of never copying and pasting on this forum again. That would be your dharma at this point.

Here is a link for you. If you want more, PM me.

www.esl-lab.com

Aum Namasivaya

jasdir
16 December 2010, 08:48 AM
Vannakkam Jasdir: So now the proper thing is to apologise (say you're sorry)
Eastren Mind ji, Once again _/\_ Sorry by Jasdir,
If still not satisfied then again heartly Sorry by Jasdir again.


and just move on with the full intent of never copying and pasting on this forum again.

When i joined HDF i have readed this carefully in:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2550

That:

High on the list of 'unattractive' is cut 'n paste. There is little value to a cut 'n paste from another site that does not add definition, conclusions and points of reason one is to be considering. If one uses cut 'n paste, What does that sūtra, mantra, vallī, etc. mean to you ? to the conversation?

It is right to call "Jasdir" As:

Little Value Person or more than that.

But i am very sorry to say that i use to collect knowledge or words from different sites on internet,
But not for the sake of any profit or money making,

Yes! you can say that Sometime my "Mind" may have used this to show myself as very wise or spiritual or intelligent in spirituality etc..
and i am very sorry for this now and in future in advance.

If it is very necessary to use our own words or not to copy & paste in the T&C of HDF than with a very sad "mind" i have to say that i have to leave the respected forum & respected members because i have no other choice.


That would be your dharma at this point.

I know only one Dharma, That is Humanity.

Or reacently what i have learned from this post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=55306#post55306



Here is a link for you. If you want more,
First of all heartly thankyou so much for the link

But EM ji, I am compleatly satisfied with my language which i have learned till now, so i don't want to improve my typing speed or language any more.

Yes, I am very much intrested in learning good virtues or spirituality or good things or good habits form anywhere, anytime, anysite, anyreligion or anyfaith.

As going through your posts i am sure that definatly you may be knowing such sites or addresses,

As you are not such bad person like me, so i hope that you will definatly provide me such links & i will be heartly thankful to you for this.



PM me.
Definatly :D :D i will, i will.


Aum Namasivaya

Aum Namasivaya by Jasdir.
_/\_ _/\_.

devotee
16 December 2010, 09:06 AM
Namaste Jasdir,


If it is very necessary to use our own words or not to copy & paste in the T&C of HDF than with a very sad "mind" i have to say that i have to leave the respected forum & respected members because i have no other choice.

Oh, don't be so serious, dear ! Copy and paste is not bad if you include in your post in that way and add some analysis from your side ... I mean, there be some value addition that is what NS and EM are trying to tell you.

It doesn't matter to me as long as it provides me some food for thought or some valuable information.

Regarding the issue you have raised :

Abstinence is one of the Yamas prescribed by Patanjali in Raaj-Yoga. In fact, not only sex but thought of any desire or anything that disturbs the peace of your mind is undesireable for meditation. This Kaama or desire is the greatest enemy of man .... this is what binds him to Maya. And needless to say, desire for Sex is one of the strongest desires that man is born with ... it is the toughest frontier to win ... there is no liberation without gaining victory over all our desires including desire for sex.

Namaste NayaSurya,

You have posted a long poem attributing it to Kabir. Was it really composed by Kabir ? I seriously doubt. It was a popular song in one of the Hindi films when we were children and it was aptly criticised by eminent personalities that time for the damning words used against women. But I don't know ... I don't expect Kabir to make such highly derogatory remarks against women ! I have very respect for Kabir. :)

OM

NayaSurya
16 December 2010, 09:26 AM
This I copied from the location which contains all of the things Jasdir has been posting on the forum, even the other posts about truth came from this location.

http://www.spiritualismmba.nstemp.com/True2.htm


It is found 1/3 the way down this length page under the title "The Last Trick of Shaitan"

Please forgive me if this was rude to re-post due to it's inaccuracies.

Being that it was written on Mastana Shah Balochistani Ashram's site I just trusted the source more than I would other internet locations.

I do not mind being called evil because of my gender, or because I smell clean. But to talk about a mother in such a way is not goodly. I can not imagine if my own child stopped coming near me because of something written by a misguided individual with such fears and preoccupation over human vessels.

As I would definitely still hug them...they can't stop motherly compassion and love!:p

NayaSurya
16 December 2010, 09:36 AM
I wrote this myself.
But! Sahasranama ji, i was wondring the reason of your Q:

_/\_Jasdir.



Dishonesty is far greater issue than copy pasting which is the only reason I replied to this in the first place.

Jasdir, please do not retreat from knowledge. Sometimes we learn lesson that is not fun. As when i take the fall down icy steps at 4 a.m. in the morning. Just because I was trying to avoid explaining by showing.

Mistakes are made. To make them worth the difficulty, we simply have to turn them into a lesson.

sm78
16 December 2010, 11:14 AM
But! not sure, Why?.

Because I don't know. Certitude in mere beliefs and guess works is the sure mark of a fanatic, a trait I don't want to acquire.

SanathanaDharma
16 December 2010, 11:35 AM
Dear Friend
Regarding the topic mentioned as the title of this thread, one needs a lot of clarifications as this topic "sex" is
very wrongly interpreted in today's society...Sanathana Dharma explains this term and the cause and effect as follows
Before getting into the details, lets get some background information
As mentioned in the Vedas and Puranas, human beings go through the four stages of life also known as "Purushartha"
The four stages include
- Dharma
- Artha
- Kama
- Moksha
The reason why every child must be given education[not just materialistic but also regarding the Absolute truth] at a very early stage of
life has deep meaning. Children have the capacity to grasp and understand a lot of things. Their intellect can be
trained in a perfect way at the tender age. And hence along with the education regarding the materialistic knowledge[that which we
learn in schools and colleges], every child needs to be thought about the Absolute truth. Now this absolute truth must
be thought by a "Guru" and ofcourse its "father and mother". When a child is thought at the young age about "Dharma", it tries to
ask a lot of questions, searches for answers, tries to convince itself, thus conditioning the intellect properly.
This stage of life must be led by every child[irrespective of gender, caste, etc] as its birth right of everyone to gain
knowledge. And this, my dear friend, is what "Dharma" means in the "Purushartha"
Once a child grows up gaining both materialistic knowledge and the absolute knowledge, the child becomes a young person
who is well informed about "Dharma". Now using both the knowledges learnt, this person needs to perform the
prescribed duty without attachment to results. The most important thing is the knowledge learning process needs to still continue while performing
the duty as the "knowledge database" is so vast that one can never ever gain everything available. This process of
gaining more knowledge and thus accumulating required wealth[in a right manner] which is exactly needed to support life.All the extra money needs to be given as daana as what money we have as "extra" sometimes is the "basic" requirement of the needy. This stage is known as "Aartha" in "Purushartha"
Now comes the third part "Kaama"...when a person is well informed about the absolute truth and the real knowledge,
- Its a prescribed duty of every individual to lawfully get married[as clearly mentioned in the Manu Smrithi]
- Its a prescribed duty for every person to marry, in order to continue the process of "Srushti" or "Creation"
- The process of creation is done as a duty because what "knowledge" has been gained "must" be passed on to the next generation.
At this point lets get into the details of "Kaama"
Note: Sexual intercourse is NOT a "man invented phenomenon"
Sexual intercourse is part of nature

According to the Puranas and the Vedas and Upanishads, before the creation of Bramhanda, there existed the Supreme Soul Alone [Parabramha]
Parabramha then assumed the form of "Purusha" and "Pradhana[24 basic elements]".
When "Purusha" interacted with "Pradhana", "Prakruthi or the entire cosmos or the Bramhanda" was "created".
"Purusha" is the "Beeja" or the "Seed"
"Pradhana" is the "Kshetra" or the "Field"
Upon sowing the seed in the field, "Prakruthi" was created.
This is also the complete meaning of the holy "Shree Chakra"

Its God who created the different versions of bodies [male and female]
Its the God who gave the feature of producing the "Beeja" or the "Seed" to the "male" physical body
Its the God who gave the feature of becoming the "kshetra" or the "field", which can hold the "Seed", to the "female" physical body
Its also the God who invented the term "Creation" under "Dharma"
Now, coming to the human body, what most of the people forget is regarding the "manah" or the "mind"
Everything that a person says "he/she likes or dislikes" is mainly the "state of mind"...its the mind which suffers when punished and its the mind which feels happy when awarded...its the mind which gets humiliated when insulted and its the mind which gets elevated when praised...its the mind which enjoys happiness and its the mind which also experiences sadness..its the mind which has hope(as it feels good for the mind to enjoy happiness) and its the mind which is always anxious(as the mind does not like to experience sadness) ...
Most importantly its the mind, with the help of sense organs, performs actions which give sense gratification and its the same mind, that experiences pleasure based on the inputs from different sense organs...its the mind which encourages one to commit a mistake because its the mind which feels happy on performing such an action...its the mind which seeks revenge and its the mind which enjoys the result of a revenge..its the mind which experiences the materialistic happiness and sadness in all the three worlds and its this mind which must always be kept under control....

The intellect which actually has gained real knowledge should keep the "mind" under control
Kaama when done according to "Dharma"
Description: After gaining the absolute knowledge, when one gets lawfully married to a woman, performing the "act of sexual intercourse"
"Only" to beget children, and doing this is as a duty, is absolutely according to the "Dharma". As without creation this
universe does not exist and neither you nor me. And more importantly, when this act is performed as a duty, it becomes
one of the holiest acts as, by doing this you are allowing your "wife" to get into that noble respectable highest position,
which is compared to that of God called "Mother"...
Important points:
- "Sexual intercourse" must be done just like any other duty without attachment or not just for sense gratification....
- When you have a digging tool, some seeds and a piece of land with you, all you do is dig the land and sow the
seeds till they grow. Once you have sown the seeds no one simply continues to "dig", just because there is land.
Also just because there is land outside your field, you never go and sow the seeds.
Similarly, the process of "sexual intercourse" is equivalent to sowing the seed present in you into the kshetra or the
field[which is lawfully given to you] which can bear the crops. Doing it for the sake of sense gratification is absolutely useless.
Outcome: By performing ones duty, as Sri Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita, one can never ever incur sin.
By performing this act as a duty the male and the female get into one of the highest position "Father and Mother".
There is a famous saying in the Upanishads that
- A teacher who takes whatever is given as fees is 10 times better than a teacher who demands a particular fee
- A teacher who teaches without taking anything in return is equal to 100 teachers who take the fees
- A Father is equal to 1000 teachers who teach without fee as its the "Father who, without expectations, teaches us the knowledge to cross this ocean called life"
- A Mother is equal to 1000 Fathers because a "Mother teaches us without expectations, and with love, the knowledge to reach Him as She is equivalent to Him"


Hence, any "sexual act" in which the process of creation is not the aim, where "gratification of senses and pleasure to the mind" is the aim,
such a fact simply deviates anyone from reaching Him.

And once the process of getting children is completed, one must get back to the gaining more knowledge, pass it on to the
children so that "Dharma" continues and thus one needs to control the mind and senses, involve in His thoughts,
and concentrate on Him to attain "moksha" which is that fourth part of "Purushartha"

Eastern Mind
16 December 2010, 03:03 PM
Eastren Mind ji, Once again _/\_ Sorry by Jasdir,
If still not satisfied then again heartly Sorry by Jasdir again.

I know only one Dharma, That is Humanity.

First of all heartly thankyou so much for the link

But EM ji, I am compleatly satisfied with my language which i have learned till now, so i don't want to improve my typing speed or language any more.

As you are not such bad person like me, so i hope that you will definatly provide me such links & i will be heartly thankful to you for this.




Namaste Jasdir: I shall try again. I will speak on each of the five points above.

1) Apology is not enough. What we need is a change of behaviour. In other words, stop cutting and pasting.

2) What I meant was your dharmic action just for this one act: lying to us all. I was not speaking of dharma in general.

3, 4) If you do not wish to try to better your English skills that is fine with me, but I honestly think that is how much of the miscommunication came about. I cannot force you to look at easy-learnig English websites. The fact remains this forum is in English, and concepts will continue to be confusing to you if you don't understand English. An example is how you said you would PM me. This is just for other excellent English sites, not for philosophy, and you misunderstood that.

5) You are not a 'bad' person. I don't even believe you understood all of the e cut and paste post that opened this thread. I hope you stick around and continue to ask questions and contribute. No offense shopuld be taken. If you told me my Punjabi was bad, I would just agree, and if all the literature I wanted to learn was in Punjabi, I would learn it. Notice the great effort Yajvan and others have taken to learn Sanskrit.

The best link I can give you would be to the Tirukkural. I'll try to find one that is in fairly easy English, unless Saidevo or someone knows of some Punjabi or Hindu translation. Do you speak Hindi, or just Punjabi?

I think English is one of the most frustrating languages to learn, BTW. It is a daunting task.

Aum Namasivaya