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TatTvamAsi
18 December 2010, 04:20 AM
Namaste,

I had to make this post, albeit in a hurry, as I saw some absolutely idiotic posts by some westerner(s) (redundant anyone?) saying that the New Testament of that large roll of toilet paper called the bible is somehow philosophical and promotes "peace" and "love".

These christians in disguise on this forum are highly dangerous and Hindus must wake up to their subversive tactics.

Here is an excellent source showing all the genocidal violence and terror promoted in the New Testament under the sanction of that worthless jewish charlatan jesus, again, redundancy at its best, that christian filth hold dear: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.html

Anytime you have someone drawing parallels between Hinduism and trash like Islam, Christianity, or Judaism, a red flag should go up and one should become aware of these deceptive folks' intentions.

sanjaya
18 December 2010, 01:07 PM
Oh dear, I fear this thread will reduce to verbal genocide between posters.

So anyway, about genocide in the Bible. It's true that there are numerous depictions of the slaughter of children, and other forms of mass murder under the guise of war. That said, I try to judge people by their actions and not their professed beliefs. The fact that most Christians try to make excuses for these passages of their scripture suggests to me that they know the acts are wrong. There are exceptions of course, e.g. the National Liberation Front of Tripura. I haven't read their propaganda, but I'm sure they appeal to Deuteronomy and Joshua to promote the little war they're waging in India. But even most Christians would denounce this. For example: the Bible says that when the Israelites invaded Canaan, they marched around the walls of Jericho for seven days until God brought the walls down and allowed them to invade (and this was followed by a slaughter and sack of the city). I've heard of Christians having "Joshua marches" where they march around Hindu temples in the hopes of converting the devotees inside. This is many things: highly disrespectful, hateful, and harmful all come to mind. But it's not violent. Unlike the Muslims who trumpet their analogous scriptures as an injunction for holy Jihad, Christians tend not to be terrorists. A lot of them are bad people, but let's give them credit where credit is due. They're not beheading anyone.

satay
18 December 2010, 01:56 PM
namaste,


I've heard of Christians having "Joshua marches" where they march around Hindu temples in the hopes of converting the devotees inside. This is many things: highly disrespectful, hateful, and harmful all come to mind. But it's not violent.

I see many christians march around hdf wearing dhoti and tilak pretending to be hindus. That's till I give them a round house flying kick and throw them out. :p

Just part of everyday dharma for me.;)

satay
18 December 2010, 01:58 PM
namaste,


Anytime you have someone drawing parallels between Hinduism and trash like Islam, Christianity, or Judaism, a red flag should go up and one should become aware of these deceptive folks' intentions.

Red flags do go up but I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Sahasranama
18 December 2010, 07:58 PM
Here is an excellent source showing all the genocidal violence and terror promoted in the New Testament under the sanction of that worthless jewish charlatan jesus, again, redundancy at its best, that christian filth hold dear: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.html

Thank you for posting this. I thought having one or two examples would be enough to shut these wolves in sheep clothings up, but it seems the more examples we have collected the better. It would be good to have a thread with such information so that whenever someone draws parallels of Hinduism with the Bible we can redirect them to the thread, so that no one has to be confused about the compatability of Christianity, Islam or Judaism with Sanatana Dharma.

Here are some examples from other threads:



Let's first take a look at Christian theology to understand the Christian concept of God:
The Bible gives us evidence of this, and clues that vegetarianism was not regarded with favor. In Genesis , Chapter Four, Eve bears Cain and Abel. 'And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.' That 'but' in the middle of the sentence is the first clue to disapproval. This disapproval is confirmed by verses three to five. Abel and Cain bring offerings to God: Abel of his sheep and Cain, the fruits of the ground. God, we are told, had respect for Abel's carnivorous offering, but He had no respect for Cain's vegetarian one. Never forget - it was the vegetarian Cain who murdered the shepherd Abel.

Let's now take a look at Hindu theology to understand the Hindu concept of God:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI1EgwdTUVI
Duryodhana ke meva tyago, saga vidura ghara khayi
He renounced the sweets of Duryodhana to eat spinach at the house of Vidura.

Krishna accepts the offers of Vidura and Shabari out of love (patram pushpam phalam toyam, yo me bhaktya...), the Christian God on the other hand had no respect for the vegetarian offerings of Cain. So, how can one say that the Christian God and Krishna are the same. This is completely ridiculous and such statements, to equate Krishna with the Christian God, are hurtful to those who have faith in Krishna.


Hi, since I did infact spend years studying this text you refer to I will offer some things here.

In the course of my time here I read the bible through to the end many times. The christian god is wrathful, hateful and a full out monster. Unfortunately I know this book so well I can point you to the exact locations of some of the most serious attrocities.

But first, let me explain that the bible was not written by a God, it's origin is in the hands of common men with their own motivations...then edited by other men and clumped together in the form we know today.

I suggest reading the appocrypha if you have any doubts about that.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/index.htm

One has only to look at the other books which were taken away to see how convoluted the truth would be to decypher.

Okay so onto the actual bible and its "god".

This portion of Leviticus is where God tells Moses that disabled people can not take sacrament inside the temple.


16 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them. 24 And Moses told it unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel.


Here's another jewel....Good ol' Numbers 11-

Folks had been walking lost in the desert with Moses, only having Mana to eat and drink. The people begged kindly for God to give them special food for their celebration. He got very angry....angry enough to poison and kill every single man, woman and innocent child within the group.



1And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp.
2 And the people cried unto Moses; and when Moses prayed unto the LORD, the fire was quenched.
3 And he called the name of the place Taberah: because the fire of the LORD burnt among them.
4 And the mixt multitude that was among them fell a lusting: and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat?
5 We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick:
6 But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes.
7 And the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of bdellium.
8 And the people went about, and gathered it, and ground it in mills, or beat it in a mortar, and baked it in pans, and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil.
9 And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.
10 Then Moses heard the people weep throughout their families, every man in the door of his tent: and the anger of the LORD was kindled greatly; Moses also was displeased.
11 And Moses said unto the LORD, Wherefore hast thou afflicted thy servant? and wherefore have I not found favour in thy sight, that thou layest the burden of all this people upon me?
12 Have I conceived all this people? have I begotten them, that thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child, unto the land which thou swarest unto their fathers?
13 Whence should I have flesh to give unto all this people? for they weep unto me, saying, Give us flesh, that we may eat.
14 I am not able to bear all this people alone, because it is too heavy for me.
15 And if thou deal thus with me, kill me, I pray thee, out of hand, if I have found favour in thy sight; and let me not see my wretchedness.
16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.
17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.
18 And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the LORD, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for it was well with us in Egypt: therefore the LORD will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.
19 Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days;
20 But even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils, and it be loathsome unto you: because that ye have despised the LORD which is among you, and have wept before him, saying, Why came we forth out of Egypt?

21-29 is just blah blah blah about the details of this-

30 And Moses gat him into the camp, he and the elders of Israel.
31 And there went forth a wind from the LORD, and brought quails from the sea, and let them fall by the camp, as it were a day’s journey on this side, and as it were a day’s journey on the other side, round about the camp, and as it were two cubits high upon the face of the earth.
32 And the people stood up all that day, and all that night, and all the next day, and they gathered the quails: he that gathered least gathered ten homers: and they spread them all abroad for themselves round about the camp.
33 And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague.
34 And he called the name of that place Kibrothhattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted.
35 And the people journeyed from Kibrothhattaavah unto Hazeroth; and abode at Hazeroth.


Disgusting....and this happens throughout the bible. It's positively wretched.

One time the followers of Moses finds a stranger gathering wood for his family in a bit of forest, they capture this man and take him to Moses and God commands them to stone this man who could have a wife and children depending on his hunting, because it was the Jew's sabbath. Even though this man was not of them!

Numbers 15-


32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.


I could go on and on...all day and night with these things. Because when one comes from such ridiculous indoctrination and with Shivaya's Grace, are allowed to leave such ignorance. You know exactly the reasons for this religion to be truly and undeniably separate from the Divine Truth of Sanatana Dharma.


(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eIgMSAIIG0&feature=related)

TatTvamAsi
18 December 2010, 08:40 PM
Oh dear, I fear this thread will reduce to verbal genocide between posters.

Please, this is HDF, not OffTopic.com And, it is wonderful to make these undercover christians uncomfortable in their disguises and out them! :D


So anyway, about genocide in the Bible. It's true that there are numerous depictions of the slaughter of children, and other forms of mass murder under the guise of war. That said, I try to judge people by their actions and not their professed beliefs. The fact that most Christians try to make excuses for these passages of their scripture suggests to me that they know the acts are wrong. There are exceptions of course, e.g. the National Liberation Front of Tripura. I haven't read their propaganda, but I'm sure they appeal to Deuteronomy and Joshua to promote the little war they're waging in India. But even most Christians would denounce this. For example: the Bible says that when the Israelites invaded Canaan, they marched around the walls of Jericho for seven days until God brought the walls down and allowed them to invade (and this was followed by a slaughter and sack of the city). I've heard of Christians having "Joshua marches" where they march around Hindu temples in the hopes of converting the devotees inside. This is many things: highly disrespectful, hateful, and harmful all come to mind. But it's not violent. Unlike the Muslims who trumpet their analogous scriptures as an injunction for holy Jihad, Christians tend not to be terrorists. A lot of them are bad people, but let's give them credit where credit is due. They're not beheading anyone.

Sanjaya, you touch on a good point that is far deeper than the outer descriptions of violence and terror in abrahamic faiths that seem to be followed only apparently by muslims today. However, it is, IMO, the christians who are far more dangerous than jihadi muslims. Let me explain.

A jihadi muslim is an overt and vociferous promoter of Islam and will never stoop to taking on the identity of other faiths to trap others for conversion and/or destruction. In other words, we, as non-muslims, can easily identify the enemy. Once identified, the enemy is always easier to fight and oppose.

Fundamentalist christians are highly devious and masters of subterfuge. They too have been genocidal in their relatively short history wiping out civilizations and cultures far older and better than theirs however, in the 20th century, they have largely gone underground. That too, only in the latter half of the 20th century. These scum (missionaries, christian apologists and fanatics) are like trojan horses. They are known to be deceptive in their outer demeanor, far removed from the usually emotional and violent jihadi, and they use this to their advantage to win the trust of unsuspecting people.

The most important thing to realize is that all abrahamic faiths, including the jews, are founded on self-importance and exclusivity. No matter how flowery their words are or how "nice" they may seem, the underlying philosophy is that of a jingoistic nature. This is the start of all conflicts.

To say that christians are better, especially compared to muslims, is highly erroneous IMO. For example, western corporations tried to patent Basmati rice, grown and made in India for millenia, in order to capitalize the market on it and prevent others from growing it freely. This is a method of stealing and robbery. One does NOT have to break into a convenient store with a gun and demand money to be classified as a "robber". Likewise, just because we don't hear of christians "beheading anyone" (they do shoot people however and we'll get to that later) does not absolve them of their atrocities and crimes.

The christians, especially those in the west, have enormous disdain for muslims who are supposed to have descended from the same bastard Abraham. This is simply a racist ideology because they believe in almost all the same things like the adam/eve myth and some YAHOO god in the sky. The jews are tolerable compared to the other two because they are not as violent culturally or physically. Yet, they are at the forefront of academia and other institutions denigrating India through so-called scholarship. This too, IMO, is violence.

As you've aptly pointed out, the NLFT is a CHRISTIAN TERRORIST organization. They work in collusion with the naxalites (commies) in India along with the jihadis to harm Hindus. The NLFT has been caught going village to village threatening people with conversion (to christianity) with AK47s and other weapons. How come we don't hear of that on CNN? Even if those incidents are sporadic, the christians are attacking Hindus culturally with much more support and fervor than muslims.

See, the bottom line is, I prefer an honest robber than a lying, thieving, and conniving one. We're better off without either of them but to say the latter is better because of their outwardly appearance and behavior is simply foolhardy.

Look at the many instances of members of HDF who had to be banned because they were christians in disguise. There were a couple of muslims too but the preponderance of christians who pretend to be Hindus or even ones who may genuinely be interested in Hinduism but still cling on to that worthless toilet paper bible and charlatan jesus is far greater than that of muslims who do the same.

To the people who feel jesus and/or christianity has valid points, do they feel the same way about islam and muhammad and the quran? Or what about moses and the torah/talmud?

If you dig a little deeper, they will freely criticize muslims and islam but keep jesus on a pedestal. All three of the abrahamic religions, their followers, and their scriptures are absolute trash. This is the fundamental fact of the matter. Anyone who claims to be Hindu and clings on to any of them is obviously a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Outer appearances can be deceptive; remember, "eternal vigilance is the price of (true) liberty!"

NayaSurya
18 December 2010, 09:08 PM
The wolves are thinly veiled...due to their own arrogant ignorance.

Eastern Mind
19 December 2010, 09:37 AM
Vannakkam: Last night at our temple I overheard a person talking about the upcoming events at another 'temple' .

"Oh yes, and on Saturday next week we're celebrating Christmas of course. We're singling carols, exchanging gifts and there will be aarti to Christ." The person speaking had a proud tone.

Now what kind of Hindu temple is that? Since when is Christmas likened to Maha Sivaratri, Divali, or all the other wonderful festivals?

Can you imagine going to some church and asking the pastor to keep it open all night so you and your Hindu friends could go celebrate Sivaratri

One can get a sense of how universalist a temple group is just by reading their published calendar of events.

Crazy!!

The real value of December 25 is at hotels and the like as you get the whole place to yourself. Airports are less busy too. In fact this Dec. 25 I catch a plane. Once my family had an entire indoor waterslide park at a hotel all to ourselves. It was great. No lineups.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
19 December 2010, 09:57 AM
"Oh yes, and on Saturday next week we're celebrating Christmas of course. We're singling carols, exchanging gifts and there will be aarti to Christ."

I can start crying right now. This really shows the attitude of people, like the whole religion is some sort of make belief celebration where it doesn't matter what kind of character you put in front. If people were serious about Hinduism they would never allow such a thing in a temple. I can't imagine what kind of inferiority complex the temple managers are dealing with. If people want to worship Christ, they should go to a church. Hindus don't go to church pretending to be Jesuits and then chanting aum namah shivaya during the sermon. Hindus don't visit Christian forums and impose Hindu concepts in discussions of Christian theology. These Christians want to have the upperhand at everything and universalists are letting them.

This is pure Christian conversion tactics. The first step of these missionaries is to befriend Hindus, to pretend that they want to learn about our religion. Instead of fighting our beliefs directly which most Hindus will resist, first they want to make us familiar with Jesus, like he is just like one of the many Hindu gods. After that they slowly try to focus our attention more and more on Jesus. They will have Hindus singing arati and christmas carols to Jesus for example. They will try to prove that Jesus was a great yogi or an avatar. They will quote from and misinterpretate Hindu scriptures, mixed with references from the bible and the koran trying to prove there's just one God, but superstitious Hindus created many false images (ala Zakir Naik). Then they will bring us to their Church (or maybe to a Yahwey Yoga class in the future), to make us part of their group. I am not making this up, there are manuals online with subtle techniques to convert South East Asians (Indians). They know that when it comes to Indians, handing us a Bible is not enough.

SethDrebitko
20 December 2010, 05:41 PM
At my temple we have Christmas notices, but it is treated as a day of giving and fellowship. I see it as mostly a way for children to not feel left out while the rest of the country does something fun.

sanjaya
20 December 2010, 05:50 PM
namaste,



I see many christians march around hdf wearing dhoti and tilak pretending to be hindus. That's till I give them a round house flying kick and throw them out. :p

Just part of everyday dharma for me.;)

I've heard other posters point this out as well. Are there any people here I would know who turned out to be Christians? Just wondering because I seem to not be noticing these things; perhaps I'm just highly unobservant.


Please, this is HDF, not OffTopic.com And, it is wonderful to make these undercover christians uncomfortable in their disguises and out them! :D

I can imagine it is. I just hope we don't start fighting amongst ourselves. We Hindus seem to have a sad talent for not getting along with each other.


Sanjaya, you touch on a good point that is far deeper than the outer descriptions of violence and terror in abrahamic faiths that seem to be followed only apparently by muslims today. However, it is, IMO, the christians who are far more dangerous than jihadi muslims. Let me explain.

A jihadi muslim is an overt and vociferous promoter of Islam and will never stoop to taking on the identity of other faiths to trap others for conversion and/or destruction. In other words, we, as non-muslims, can easily identify the enemy. Once identified, the enemy is always easier to fight and oppose.

Fundamentalist christians are highly devious and masters of subterfuge. They too have been genocidal in their relatively short history wiping out civilizations and cultures far older and better than theirs however, in the 20th century, they have largely gone underground. That too, only in the latter half of the 20th century. These scum (missionaries, christian apologists and fanatics) are like trojan horses. They are known to be deceptive in their outer demeanor, far removed from the usually emotional and violent jihadi, and they use this to their advantage to win the trust of unsuspecting people.

The most important thing to realize is that all abrahamic faiths, including the jews, are founded on self-importance and exclusivity. No matter how flowery their words are or how "nice" they may seem, the underlying philosophy is that of a jingoistic nature. This is the start of all conflicts.

To say that christians are better, especially compared to muslims, is highly erroneous IMO. For example, western corporations tried to patent Basmati rice, grown and made in India for millenia, in order to capitalize the market on it and prevent others from growing it freely. This is a method of stealing and robbery. One does NOT have to break into a convenient store with a gun and demand money to be classified as a "robber". Likewise, just because we don't hear of christians "beheading anyone" (they do shoot people however and we'll get to that later) does not absolve them of their atrocities and crimes.

The christians, especially those in the west, have enormous disdain for muslims who are supposed to have descended from the same bastard Abraham. This is simply a racist ideology because they believe in almost all the same things like the adam/eve myth and some YAHOO god in the sky. The jews are tolerable compared to the other two because they are not as violent culturally or physically. Yet, they are at the forefront of academia and other institutions denigrating India through so-called scholarship. This too, IMO, is violence.

As you've aptly pointed out, the NLFT is a CHRISTIAN TERRORIST organization. They work in collusion with the naxalites (commies) in India along with the jihadis to harm Hindus. The NLFT has been caught going village to village threatening people with conversion (to christianity) with AK47s and other weapons. How come we don't hear of that on CNN? Even if those incidents are sporadic, the christians are attacking Hindus culturally with much more support and fervor than muslims.

See, the bottom line is, I prefer an honest robber than a lying, thieving, and conniving one. We're better off without either of them but to say the latter is better because of their outwardly appearance and behavior is simply foolhardy.

I can understand that. And I do appreciate your argument. I too can notice from looking at history that Christians have eliminated more cultures through conversion than Muslims have through violence. At the same time, I am hard-pressed to say that the Muslim beheading a reporter on television is preferable to the Christian roaming through India converting us. The Christians do more long term damage, but I feel the Muslim is worse.

Alas, you and I are both opposed to Christianity and Islam. At some level it's just pointless to argue which religion is worse. Both religions have mostly bad attributes. Perhaps they have a few redeeming ones as well, but Abrahamic faiths are still more trouble than they are worth.

On a sidenote, you have convinced me about one thing. I've never thought of Judaism as terribly threatening. But as you say, Jews are vastly overrepresented in academia, the same academia which degrades Hinduism. This too is dangerous.


To the people who feel jesus and/or christianity has valid points, do they feel the same way about islam and muhammad and the quran? Or what about moses and the torah/talmud?

This is perhaps an issue that deserves its own thread. The Torah and Quran are similar books. Both have some bits of wisdom, but these gems are buried within a lot of dirt (i.e. divine mandates for genocide). From what I've read of the Talmud, it's quite a bit better. The New Testament also has some good moral teachings, but they are interlaced with commands for conversion.

Really, Hindus are better off just reading and learning from Hindu Scriptures. We have so many holy texts that it would take a lifetime to read them all (unless someone is paying you to do this eight hours a day). Why waste time on the Abrahamic texts? It's only worthwhile if you plan to debate these people.


If you dig a little deeper, they will freely criticize muslims and islam but keep jesus on a pedestal. All three of the abrahamic religions, their followers, and their scriptures are absolute trash. This is the fundamental fact of the matter. Anyone who claims to be Hindu and clings on to any of them is obviously a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Careful, "wolves in sheep's clothing" is a quote from the Bible. ;)

Anyway I see your point, a person who bashes Islam and has nothing to say about Christianity is suspect. Nor should Hindus hold Christian scriptures with too much reverence, since at the end of the day we are Hindus and not Christians.

Kumar_Das
03 January 2011, 02:24 AM
Please, this is HDF, not OffTopic.com And, it is wonderful to make these undercover christians uncomfortable in their disguises and out them! :D



Sanjaya, you touch on a good point that is far deeper than the outer descriptions of violence and terror in abrahamic faiths that seem to be followed only apparently by muslims today. However, it is, IMO, the christians who are far more dangerous than jihadi muslims. Let me explain.

A jihadi muslim is an overt and vociferous promoter of Islam and will never stoop to taking on the identity of other faiths to trap others for conversion and/or destruction. In other words, we, as non-muslims, can easily identify the enemy. Once identified, the enemy is always easier to fight and oppose.

Fundamentalist christians are highly devious and masters of subterfuge. They too have been genocidal in their relatively short history wiping out civilizations and cultures far older and better than theirs however, in the 20th century, they have largely gone underground. That too, only in the latter half of the 20th century. These scum (missionaries, christian apologists and fanatics) are like trojan horses. They are known to be deceptive in their outer demeanor, far removed from the usually emotional and violent jihadi, and they use this to their advantage to win the trust of unsuspecting people.

The most important thing to realize is that all abrahamic faiths, including the jews, are founded on self-importance and exclusivity. No matter how flowery their words are or how "nice" they may seem, the underlying philosophy is that of a jingoistic nature. This is the start of all conflicts.

To say that christians are better, especially compared to muslims, is highly erroneous IMO. For example, western corporations tried to patent Basmati rice, grown and made in India for millenia, in order to capitalize the market on it and prevent others from growing it freely. This is a method of stealing and robbery. One does NOT have to break into a convenient store with a gun and demand money to be classified as a "robber". Likewise, just because we don't hear of christians "beheading anyone" (they do shoot people however and we'll get to that later) does not absolve them of their atrocities and crimes.

The christians, especially those in the west, have enormous disdain for muslims who are supposed to have descended from the same bastard Abraham. This is simply a racist ideology because they believe in almost all the same things like the adam/eve myth and some YAHOO god in the sky. The jews are tolerable compared to the other two because they are not as violent culturally or physically. Yet, they are at the forefront of academia and other institutions denigrating India through so-called scholarship. This too, IMO, is violence.

As you've aptly pointed out, the NLFT is a CHRISTIAN TERRORIST organization. They work in collusion with the naxalites (commies) in India along with the jihadis to harm Hindus. The NLFT has been caught going village to village threatening people with conversion (to christianity) with AK47s and other weapons. How come we don't hear of that on CNN? Even if those incidents are sporadic, the christians are attacking Hindus culturally with much more support and fervor than muslims.

See, the bottom line is, I prefer an honest robber than a lying, thieving, and conniving one. We're better off without either of them but to say the latter is better because of their outwardly appearance and behavior is simply foolhardy.

Look at the many instances of members of HDF who had to be banned because they were christians in disguise. There were a couple of muslims too but the preponderance of christians who pretend to be Hindus or even ones who may genuinely be interested in Hinduism but still cling on to that worthless toilet paper bible and charlatan jesus is far greater than that of muslims who do the same.

To the people who feel jesus and/or christianity has valid points, do they feel the same way about islam and muhammad and the quran? Or what about moses and the torah/talmud?

If you dig a little deeper, they will freely criticize muslims and islam but keep jesus on a pedestal. All three of the abrahamic religions, their followers, and their scriptures are absolute trash. This is the fundamental fact of the matter. Anyone who claims to be Hindu and clings on to any of them is obviously a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Outer appearances can be deceptive; remember, "eternal vigilance is the price of (true) liberty!"

All said and done...

Just came across this today. Thought of posting it.

And he was a Brahmana by birth apparently.:laugh: yup, yup, I can see the smartness and demeanor from his face...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-VElnzbcF0

note how he "criticizes" Brahmin caste, formal preists and Manu Smriti.

I have watched both Christian and Muslim videos where the person was an ex-Hindu (almost always a Brahmana:p ) And this is by far the most elaborate, well-thought-out, deliberately feigned to be as convincing as possible and most harsh in criticising Hinduism that I have seen.

I know exactly where and how this is bollocks. And I think you can figure this out well for yourself too.;) I don't have to say much. Its the usual "idols cannot help themselves, we worshipped them, how could they help us" and "prophets of Allah, as servants of Allah giving revelations to us, make more sense than God incarnating" usual stuff, which they assume of Hinduism as usual

1) something to claim that is a practice of Hinduism, which really is not present or mandated within Hinduism, and then explain its "absurdity" and replace that with what Islam offers as apparently being better

you will find thats its very much to do with the traditional Quranic critique of Arabic paganism.

Find fault from the idolators/polytheists - (Hindus are idolators/polytheists)

criticise Hinduism same old like how Quran condemns Arabic paganism

and use that as a way of serving Islam as being "the one true religion"

Hinduism has these "absurdities" and Islam offers what is proper/better, as a response to these "absurdities"

2) praising of Islam and all things related to it in as compelling and positive manner as possible

I agree that Christians resort to petty shameless deception more than Muslims do in trying to convert. But atleast Christians are not as vicious as Muslims. They have mellowed down over the years. So they are less to worry about. The fact that a Hindu can go to America or Europe and openly practice Hinduism and pray in temples constructed there over say in Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan where no infidel is allowed to confidently express his religious identity or practice his religion in public pretty much sums it up.

sm78
03 January 2011, 03:36 AM
I can start crying right now.

This tactic has been adopted for quite some time now in India, and it seems now due its success, is being promoted in west to be used against Hindus in the west. Sita Ram Goel wrote about Christian Ashrams decades ago, and in the south the temple like appearence and some apparantly similar rituals to Jesus are being carried out daily to entice the hindus.

However, can such tactics alone be blamed? Is it not that, being a Hindu now simply means to attend temples, aaratis, bells and chants and go through or see through the motions of a ritual. Is there any thought and heart behind what we do? Has not the thousands of years of orthodoxy and brahmanical hagemony effectively kept the common people off from understanding & appreciating the significance of any ritual?

Such a system is prone to attack of Trojans, and one cannot always simply blame the Trojan, ignoring the shortcomings of the society and its practices.

Someone was praising the greatness of orthodoxy, and I never got around to showing its great pit falls (apart from the fundamental inequality it breeds). And there are many many more.

Coming back to the point, being piloted in the South (Tamiz Land in particular), the tactic is now being applied in other parts of India as well. In Bengal, Shani Puja is very popular on small road side temples on Saturdays. Someone told me that he saw exactly similar got up created for puja of Jesus on sunday evenings in one area of Calcutta - probably a pilot project of christists.

Only 2 ways to get out of this.

1) Make religion available to common man as a practioner (with understanding) and not merely a dumb witness and financer to the gestures of high priests of orthodoxy. It is really the time to throw those discriminating and completely outdated dharma shastras, pages from puranas and all other shastras which have been tainted by support such behaviour in the trash bin and frame a few copies for historical evidence and academic interests.

2) Understand Christianity and any asuric propaganda machinery for that matter, and attack jeebus, churches and christians as target for counter conversion.

Sahasranama
03 January 2011, 05:44 AM
1) Make religion available to common man as a practioner (with understanding) and not merely a dumb witness and financer to the gestures of high priests of orthodoxy. It is really the time to throw those discriminating and completely outdated dharma shastras, pages from puranas and all other shastras which have been tainted by support such behaviour in the trash bin and frame a few copies for historical evidence and academic interests. You make a good point, but I cannot completely agree with tearing out pages of puranas and dharma shastras. It's good to be aware of the many interpolations and know what's relevant to modern times, but if you just tear out what you don't like or don't understand, you don't know if you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The dharma shastras, itihasas and puranas are the heart of hinduism. It would be good if more critical editions were published with extensive footnotes on interpolations and explanations of controversy. The Bhagavata Purana hardly has any orthodoxy, people have figured out that it is the créme de la créme of the puranic corpus.

I am not against a priest class that needs financial support, but maybe the priests need to do more to educate and guide the masses in religious and spiritual matters, rather than just doing a ritual and taking dakshina. Christians have their bible study groups and sermons. Hindus have their pravachans, but study groups are a little less common. In the Netherlands there is one mandir that offers Gita study groups, more mandirs should take an example of that.


2) Understand Christianity and any asuric propaganda machinery for that matter, and attack jeebus, churches and christians as target for counter conversion.I cannot agree more. Hinduism is like the pure waters of the ganga in the high mountain tops. Christianity is poison. Even if you have a glass full of pure ganga water, a drop of poison will make it undrinkable. We have many role models in Hinduism, there is no need for Jesus to teach about dharma.

Friend from the West
25 May 2011, 09:30 PM
Greetings and namaste. TatTvamAsi brings up some points that seem so important. With Muslims, especially the Hanafis and Hanbalis, you know what their thoughts are towards anyone else. To us, infidels. To other Muslims, apostates. The Quran and the Hadiths and the Sunnah are pretty straight forward regarding how the Muslims are to behave towards us. Even the concept of Taqiyya is pretty straight forward. These followers are all from and with God, so I pray for them.

I have read the Talmud. Sure do not have the knowledge to fully understand many things but the things I understand is that worded differently, not much different then within Islam's scripture. Regarding the "Old Testament", is what it is.

TatTvamAsi's points towards Christianity are something have been thinking about and do not have confidence of the above statements. I think it is complicated and do not understand. The excuse of Constaintine and the Crusades, the vileness towards the Jewish people of Martin Luther, and the sickness that John Calvin has spread to this present age, still does not account for actions of Christians today. As a child in SD think it is ego driven. A preacher preaches and they go out to do their thing. If face resistance, they have not worked towards understanding (not part of the theology), they go to default of ego and are angered. From there they go to one of the most human instincts, rationalization. From this point there is no difference between them and others except in behavior.
Over last few weeks just been overwhelmed that WWW sites (with exception of Islam and Christian sites bashing each other) that bash the Sanatana Dharma is huge. I can not explain my very real sadness with this new realization. $$$$$ and ideology?
I agree with TatvamAsi. Do not think it matters if prescribed strategy as per Islam is same, but results are the same.
TatvamAsi, if in anyway I have distorted what you were conveying, I apologize.

TheOne
26 May 2011, 06:17 AM
@OP

I went to your link, read a few lines and left. All the lines there are taken out of context completely. Like when it says "Jesus recommends cutting out eyes and hands" the person obviously has a sinister intent when the actual passage refers to Jesus saying if your eye causes you to sin, metaphorically cut it out because it is better to have eternal life with one eye, than eternal life.


I'm not defending the doctrine based off of the text, I'm showing that if someone uses deliberately deceptive tactics against Christianity, one doesn't gain anything.

Kumar_Das
15 December 2012, 06:53 AM
I agree that Christians resort to petty shameless deception more than Muslims do in trying to convert. But atleast Christians are not as vicious as Muslims. They have mellowed down over the years. So they are less to worry about. The fact that a Hindu can go to America or Europe and openly practice Hinduism and pray in temples constructed there over say in Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan where no infidel is allowed to confidently express his religious identity or practice his religion in public pretty much sums it up.


Changed this stance of mine. Didn't understand exactly why the Western world was seemingly so much more tolerant of foreign religions and ethic groups and allowed them to be set up and flourish.;)

TTA is absolutely right. Jihadi Muslims would rather let it be known who they are, what their intentions are, what they expect from you and when they are coming for you. They are intolerant but at least they true to themselves and others. That's why I got respect for even the worst Muslim. An enemy who hates you because you are not like him, but wants you to be exactly like him, and tells you exactly everything he expects out of you without deception or lies is a good enemy. I respect that.

But I do wonder if they do apply some deception.

It seems like the Saudi-funded proselytism of Islam in the West does involve some deception like how they first allowed Blacks, like the Black Panthers/Nation of Islam to have their own beliefs which are blasphemous to Islam but later trying to convince them out of this ideology/religion which is obviously heterodox to them. Like the fellows doing that in this show.

the early part of this 11:00 onwards, he says things like "he didn't cold turkey this community"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV5DWHlHx1g

this I'll leave it to you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzQuOkuNGg

They'll let you do something out of sync with Orthodox Islam. Their point is to slowly get you closer and closer to their Orthodox version. In the initial stages they let you off scot-free. But with time and chance, they'll try to get to. It seems similar to the xtian strategy. Not too sure if the Saudis allowed and sanctioned that. It would seem like how they usually allow the Sufi missionary in first. And then once that culture is more "Islamized" then they take over.

If they aren't preaching Islam straight forward without cloaking it, and instead letting you closer to it slowly and slowly. Then they are contradicting their own religious tenets. Which is to introduce you to the truth of Islam in its whole form and what it actually stands for in the here and now and this lifetime so that every person can be an Orthodox Muslim ASAP and live their lives by it but trapping you with the diluted form of it. They are going against their religion. Then I can't respect them because they aren't even being true to themselves.

Kumar_Das
15 December 2012, 08:06 AM
namaste,

Red flags do go up but I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I agree red flags should go up. Hindus need to stop being gullible. What is wrong about Hindu dharma that we need affirmation from other religions? Or that somehow if something is found in Hinduism and other religions means this thing is especially more valid? This is due to an inferiority complex to the Abrahamic status quo and that Abrahamic religions(each thinking that their own) is the undoubted truth and the standard of all religions. This is why Hindus should be proud of being Hindus. And learn to protect themselves from Anti-Hindus/Anti-Indians.

We should have the benefit of the doubt only that perhaps someone is solely seeing the good present anywhere and appreciating them for that.

Jeffery D. Long
15 December 2012, 10:41 AM
Some of you may be interested in an article I wrote for Prabuddha Bharata a couple of years ago where I critique the hypocrisy of Western readers who denounce the "violence" of the highly regulated battle among warriors that Lord Krishna enjoins in the Bhagavad Gita while turning a blind eye to the genocides endorsed in the Bible. I'll share a link if I can find one and if there is interest.

Believer
15 December 2012, 11:03 AM
Namaste,

Some of you may be interested in an article I wrote for Prabuddha Bharata a couple of years ago where I critique the hypocrisy of Western readers who denounce the "violence" of the highly regulated battle among warriors that Lord Krishna enjoins in the Bhagavad Gita while turning a blind eye to the genocides endorsed in the Bible. I'll share a link if I can find one and if there is interest.
That would be a desirable contribution to the forum, but perhaps should be posted in the form of a new thread in a suitable sub-forum. This sub-forum 'Jalpa' is for acrimonious dead end debates.

Pranam.

Jeffery D. Long
15 December 2012, 11:14 AM
Thank you, Believer, for your wise advice!

philosoraptor
15 December 2012, 03:56 PM
Some of you may be interested in an article I wrote for Prabuddha Bharata a couple of years ago where I critique the hypocrisy of Western readers who denounce the "violence" of the highly regulated battle among warriors that Lord Krishna enjoins in the Bhagavad Gita while turning a blind eye to the genocides endorsed in the Bible. I'll share a link if I can find one and if there is interest.

I have made similar criticisms myself. Yes, that would be a very useful contribution!

Kumar_Das
15 December 2012, 04:57 PM
This tactic has been adopted for quite some time now in India, and it seems now due its success, is being promoted in west to be used against Hindus in the west. Sita Ram Goel wrote about Christian Ashrams decades ago, and in the south the temple like appearence and some apparantly similar rituals to Jesus are being carried out daily to entice the hindus.

However, can such tactics alone be blamed? Is it not that, being a Hindu now simply means to attend temples, aaratis, bells and chants and go through or see through the motions of a ritual. Is there any thought and heart behind what we do? Has not the thousands of years of orthodoxy and brahmanical hagemony effectively kept the common people off from understanding & appreciating the significance of any ritual?

Such a system is prone to attack of Trojans, and one cannot always simply blame the Trojan, ignoring the shortcomings of the society and its practices.

Someone was praising the greatness of orthodoxy, and I never got around to showing its great pit falls (apart from the fundamental inequality it breeds). And there are many many more.

Coming back to the point, being piloted in the South (Tamiz Land in particular), the tactic is now being applied in other parts of India as well. In Bengal, Shani Puja is very popular on small road side temples on Saturdays. Someone told me that he saw exactly similar got up created for puja of Jesus on sunday evenings in one area of Calcutta - probably a pilot project of christists.

Only 2 ways to get out of this.

1) Make religion available to common man as a practioner (with understanding) and not merely a dumb witness and financer to the gestures of high priests of orthodoxy. It is really the time to throw those discriminating and completely outdated dharma shastras, pages from puranas and all other shastras which have been tainted by support such behaviour in the trash bin and frame a few copies for historical evidence and academic interests.

2) Understand Christianity and any asuric propaganda machinery for that matter, and attack jeebus, churches and christians as target for counter conversion.


Are you trying to bull*** me?:D

Believer
15 December 2012, 09:20 PM
Namaste,

Are you trying to bull*** me?:D
Please be advised that the person you are trying to debate has been gone for almost 9 months. So, you win by default. ;)


The following post is less than a month old. What happened to the self-assessment/resolution made there?


I have decided to return back to studying religion/expanding my spiritual growth very recently. Its nice because it puts a fresher perspective on things after a long haul. My knack for controversy has gone down and I wish to curb any excessive, untempered enthusiasm. It has also allowed me to review my former theological/philosophical positions. I also realised Ive said alot of bush sheesh.

Pranam.

Kumar_Das
16 December 2012, 03:50 AM
edited...