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Eastern Mind
27 January 2011, 03:46 PM
Vannakkam: This is just an open ended question. I have noticed many times over the years that here in the west especially in non-religious, or Christian mindsets, that people tend to deny the existence of death. I attended a Hindu funeral the other day and it seemed eerily similar from some of the comments I heard, such as 'he was too young' for one. Its almost as if people actually believe they may live forever. The only person there besides myself that seemed to have a decent handle on it was the pundit officiating. He made a comment about destiny, and that the moment of death may well be determined at the moment of birth due to one's seed karmas. Now I'm not sure if I agree or not.

What I really want to know is how deeply infiltrated this lack of faith is in the collective consciousness. I first started thinking about this when an uncle who was very ill for quite a long time died, and the doctors said, "We lost him." Now that's understandable if you don't have any faith in the afterlife or in reincarnation. But if you do, there really should be no problem. Its a simple transition. The aforementioned pundit also mentioned a story of Sri Ramakrishna saying, "I'm not going anywhere, just to another room," regarding his upcoming transition.

So it boils down to talking the talk but not walking the walk. So I'm wondering how others here have observed this phenomena. Are the Hindus you know able to lay their faith on the line, so to say, or do they scream and grieve and holler about how unfair it all was? In hopes of a better understanding personally, I'd like to hear some opinions.

Personally, although I'm affected, it is usually in a much more minor way. I had a student aged 9 die of an asthma attack suddenly in my class, and if there ever was a case for ' the 'too young' argument, that was it. But all I could think of at the time is whether or not that soul could escape the worldly grips of the mourning relatives. I've been accused of being cold for my' indifferent' attitude. I've only been to a couple of funerals where the group consciousness really let it go. One was my father's where my brother and I told so many jokes and funny stories about dad that we had the audience laughing as if at a comedy fest. The other was at a cousins where the deceased had written a warming message for all to hear and was read by his son.

What are funerals like in India?

Thanks in advance for your upcoming thoughts.

Aum Namasivaya

Arjuni
27 January 2011, 10:09 PM
Vannakkam, EM,

I can't answer the final question of your post, but had a few thoughts on the rest of it.

Meditation, self-inquiry and examination, within any religion really, are the easiest practices to let slide from one's life, because they're not as insistently urgent as daily practices like eating, bathing, sleeping (all of which produce fairly quick discomfort to the senses if not done regularly), and also because they can be fearful (dredging up worries, bad past experiences, etc.) and not immediately "fun" (like less focused activities, such as outings with friends, TV watching, etc.). Many people of all faiths lead lives "asleep," as our dear NayaSurya has phrased it - working, sleeping, eating and drinking, partying, indefinitely postponing religious observances as "boring" or "too time-consuming."

A muscle that is never used becomes weak; so it is with "faith," which can be little more than a superficial veneer over an avalanche of unanswered questions, unchallenged fears, and unfulfilled longings, if it is not a regular part of daily existence. Death is not something that most people think about much, and to be confronted with it is to rip away that thin covering and let all of those insidious ills escape.

A Hindu person likely has a belief in reincarnation that ties into the identity of being Hindu, but may not have thought about it much beyond that. How does it work, and why? What if someone dies violently, or by their own hand? How can we honour a Beloved that takes the young, or the vibrant, or the beautiful, from us, especially if it comes before the long term of life we believe they merited?

A person who self-examines regularly, will have their own answers for those questions, and likely a strong, close relationship with their chosen Deva that will help sustain their heart and soul through the sadness of their own loss and remind them that the flow of life is eternal and sublime.

Someone who has never examined these questions, will likely be in the thick of intense confusion and fear, on top of suffering the loss. It can be their weakest moment, the time when they most need the support of faith - and it's not there, because it hasn't been cultivated during their times of former strength. It's similar to the regrettable fact that you can't quickly fix poor health from a hospital bed; the work for a healthy body is done every day, with each choice made. I don't think it's death "denial," so much as being completely overwhelmed by negative emotions and fears when death actually comes.

In the West people will sometimes say "it's selfish to dwell on grief, because it's a selfish emotion; s/he is with God now," and things of that nature, but most of the time, anyone who doesn't sob openly at death is regarded as "cold." I think your approach to death is from a perspective of strong faith and unselfishness - that you worried about the soul of your student speaks volumes - and it's a shame that such is interpreted as "indifference."

It's strange that you should ask this question today. I found out a little while ago that a friend of mine, only a few years older than me, has died unexpectedly. After the initial shock of the news, I looked at my shrine and felt a sense of pleasure for her. She was unhappy very often in her life, and whatever karma her young life has worked out, I'm hopeful she won't be unhappy like that again. A year ago I would have been a basketcase.

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

devotee
27 January 2011, 10:55 PM
Namaste EM,

The Hindus grieve on death of their relatives. If the dead person was young then it naturally hurts more.

Hindus know that the death is not the end of the person. BG says, "Vaasaansi jirNani yatha vihaaya ...." (As people shed their old clothes for getting into new ones ... like that this (Jiva)Atman sheds the old bodies and gets a new one" (BG.Chapter-2). So, why this wailing and chest beating ? Should we not celebrate "death" ... the event of getting a new life leaving the old one ?

Dear EM, we do know many things which are the Truth and are good to follow but how many of us do it ? We know that death is inevitable ... our stay on this plane of existence is too temporary ... then why do we keep stashing money into our banks even more than we would need twice the life time ? Why do we make palacial buildings to "live" in and spend whole life in getting one, if we have not ? Why don't we give to others what is more than we need ? Why do we envy others ? Why do we betray others when anything that we can get is going to be too temporary as compared to the eternity of the Truth ? Forget big talks .... how many people lead a disciplined life in eating, daily physical exercise, avoid harmful things etc. very well knowing how much harm they do by leading an indisciplined life ? We all are dying for short term "excitement"/"satisfaction"/"sense of achievement"/"sense of pride" etc. etc. !!

This is because of "Maya" which gives us strong .... no, very-very strong attachment to our body-mind entity. The more the attachment, the more the fear of losing what pleases our senses and mind, more the wailing and chest beating over "losing" what is dear to us. This applies to "death" of our relatives/friends/neighbours/acquaintances etc. ... and that results in subsequent grieving over deaths.

With spiritual advancement, the attachment becomes weaker and weaker ... and you don't feel so much hurt over these phenomena. However, there may be cases when we don't grieve at the death of anyone but are afraid of our own death like nothing else ! This is not due to weakening of attachments ... but due to extreme sefishness & self-centeredness when in the eyes of us "we" only matter !

******************************

The Hindus have a 10-13 days death ceremony.

Day 1 : There is usual weeping and grieving on death on the day the person dies. Then the relatives take the dead body to the cremation ground to burn it. I will take the case of a father dying and the son (eldest one) has to perform the funeral rites. After death, the body is given a thorough bath and it is covered in new clothes. A stretcher-like structure is made of green bamboos cut fresh for carrying the dead bodies. The dead person is treated like a deity as it goes and joins the ancestors. The relatives/friends/acquaintances come and bow (pranaam) to the dead as a mark of respect. Some incense sticks are lit and flowers offered as is done in front of a deity. Four people (close relatives) lift and carry the dead body towards the cremation ground. The eldest son carries fire taken from home. The people go on throwing flower-petals and coins while proceeding towards the cremation ground and chantig, "Ram Naam Satya hai" (The name of Lord Rama is the Truth). The procession stops at cremation ground which is usually near a river. The son takes bath in the river and changes a new cloth ... half of which serves as "Kafan" (half of which is used to cover the dead body and half is given to the son to wear it by tearing it into two pieces). The body is kept on funeral pyre & lit after paying the taxes to the funeral ground attendent (Dom/chandaal caste). The son puts the pyre on fire after going three rounds around the dead body (carrying a broken pot of full of water on his soulder) and some pooja being done by the priest.

After burning the dead body the ash/burnt bones are collected in a pot & immersed in the river or kept to be immersed in the Ganges (Kavery in the South). Then all the people accompanying the dead body take bath and have meal. No food is cooked at home on this day. Normally, the food is brought from other relatives's home. However the close relatives will not use frying while cooking and turmeric use will be stopped until the 11th day. All male relatives would stop shaving their beards and hair cut. All worship rituals at home will stop but Bhagwad Gita recital/listening to Garud PuraaNa is done. No meat/eggs will be cooked till the thirteenth day.

Day 2-6 : The son who burnt the body is called, "Kartaa" & he has to maintain purity in living till the death function is over. He wears a small piece of cloth cut in length taken from the cloth (called Uttariya) that covered the dead body & keeps with him upto 6th day (like a garland in his neck). Whatever he eats or drinks ... offers it first to the departed soul by taking out a small portion out of it first. He sleeps in the same bedroom where the person died or lived (if death occured in a hospital). He takes everything made of milk/fruits and avoids any fried thing or salty things.

Day 7 : All the relatives go & take ritualistic bath in the river. Before this bath, Kartaa sheds the cloth of the dead given to him & offers the oil and khali(used as soap in villages) to the departed soul as if for taking bath. After this bath, the first pinda daan (offering to the dead) is made helped by a priest (this priest is different and is called the Mahapaatraa. He cannot perform pooja in temples like other priests.).

Day 8-9 : This again goes like the previous 2-6 days.

Day 10 : All relatives will shave their beards and head.

Day-11 : Pinda-daan (offering food to the dead) is performed by Kartaa assisted by the Mahapatra-priest.

Day-12 : Pinda-daan (last one) is again performed during the daytime. The relatives, friends and other acquaintances are given a good community feast (like on any auspicious occasions but with simplicity).

On this day the dead leaves the earthly bondage and travels to the Swarga(heaven). All mournings must stop on this ocasion (as one must be happy that the soul is leaving the earthly bondage and going to heaven. also mourning may create a sense of attachment at this moment in the departed soul which is not auspicious) & no more mourning thereafter. Usual cooking like frying & using turmeric at homes starts after this ceremony. In the evening, there will be community feast with relatives and the friends.

Day-13 : Now the house is considered clean again to be fit for worshiopping the Lord. On this day, the whole house will be cleaned like it is done on any auspicious occasion. The priest (who makes worship in the tempoles) and will perform pooja (SatyanaaraNa katha). There will be "Pagdi ceremony" where the eldest son will be given a pagdi i.e. a turban as a mark of making him the Chief of the house. There will be happy feasting with relatives on this occasion.

Day-14 : Those who are non-vegetarians make non-vegetarian food & have feast on this day to mark start of meat-eating after completion of the death-ceremony.

******************************

There may be some errors in the above description as I wrote it down from my memory. There are also variations in the rituals from place to place and from community to community though a few basic things do remain the same.

OM

Ramakrishna
27 January 2011, 11:46 PM
Namaste Eastern Mindji,

This is something I have thought about as well. I like your point about talking the talk but not walking the walk. Most Hindus who have a decent grasp of their religion understand reincarnation and that death is merely a phase for the soul's inevitable path toward moksha and not something to grieve and be depressed over. Yet, when it comes to actually applying this mindset and worldview in real life, a lot of people fall short.

I have only experienced two deaths of close ones in my life. The first was my maternal grandmother, and she passed away when I was 11 years old. At that point in my life, I wasn't a particularly devout or practicing Hindu. I cried a bit at the funeral. Most of my aunts and uncles on my mother's side (the sons and daughters of the deceased) were crying. This varied from a few visible tears to heavy weeping, and one of my aunts even fainted. Oddly enough, the only one who wasn't crying was an uncle who was a convert to Christianity, and he was probably the only Christian at the entire funeral. Now it should be noted that the majority of my aunts and uncles at the funeral are non-practicing or semi-practicing Hindus, and not particularly devout in any stretch of the imagination.

The second death was last year, when my family's pet bird died. My mother was the one who was closest to the bird, and she cried initially. I was pretty close with the bird as well, but I did not cry. At that point I had grown and become much more faithful in Sanatana Dharma. The beliefs of reincarnation and the indestructibility of the soul were strong within me. I also read that Gita verse that Devoteeji cited to comfort me further.

Ultimately I believe it comes down to how strongly or truly a person believes in reincarnation and the immortality of the soul. I don't think you are cold or indifferent, but you happen to have a very strong and faithful belief in these core Hindu concepts, and I respect that. Again, it is one thing to read and learn about these beliefs and say "Okay, I believe them." But it is another thing to walk the walk and actually live by these beliefs.

Jai Sri Ram

sm78
28 January 2011, 12:24 AM
What I really want to know is how deeply infiltrated this lack of faith is in the collective consciousness.

As devotee said, theory and practice are two different things. We should not only not grieve on death but be absolutely prepared to meet and greet it. But most people do not understand what they practice and emotions generally do take over. The rituals on and following death have been arranges such that people can still reflect on the next life - but few still do.

Eastern Mind
28 January 2011, 06:24 AM
Vannakkam all: Thanks for these replies. At least now I know I am not alone in this thinking. As devotee said, it is truly a world of maya, or anava. I just find it hard to realise that at times, while observing. Thanks Devotee for the detailed funeral description as well. I do know there are slight variances, such as how long you should stay away from temple, etc.

To illustrate this point of maya/anava even further, the other day I observed a person meeting a friend in a store shopping, and ask, "Are you shopping?" to his friend. I've heard similar statements before and it never fails to flabbergast me. There have been times when the question is at me such as , "Are you cutting the lawn?" My immediate reaction is usually to think of some sarcastic answer such as , "No, I am riding a rollercoaster," but now I have learned to smile and move on.

Aum Namasivaya

NayaSurya
28 January 2011, 06:49 AM
My children and I talked about this just the other day as news of a distant aquaintance died. I was trying to talk to my oldest children about how I wanted things to be after I die and they became very upset.

Now, each of them understands that we will come again...but none of them are too happy to embrace my liberation from this place. Because they depend upon me emotionally and often physically. I think I am a good friend, one who listens and also helps them.

The others around me do not seem to have the same desires as I to leave here. I think it unsettles them to discuss this too much. I suppose I could always write a letter in the event I leave here before they have grown enough to accept this inevitability. Sometimes I do feel that I will not be here so very long and so I do attempt this discussion quite frequently.

I am doing nothing to instigate such things, but the feeling is very profound. Death, is a friend of mine. For a very long time I watch this being work around me...watched it come for those I lovingly cared for....and over time I did become grateful...and even fond of it.

It's a specially kind being, which takes one out of suffering and into liberation. It's the farmer come to take the ripe fruit off the vine before it perishes and withers...it is a friend.

But, I would like to remain here for at least 10-13 more years and when I feel especially worried about this, I do ask this friend for this tiny portion of time to finish this job and nothing more. Though, if he came today I would take his hand...it would be very unfortunate timing.

When my own mother died after a 12 year battle with breast cancer I cried very hard, I felt she had much unfinished business and this was unfortunate.

Perhaps this one which had died also had many things unknown E.M.? Things which their family knew would be a hardship in the next lifetime?

Also, I know I did indulge in tears because her suffering was over...it was a great release of emotions...and pent up worries which we could never share with her during those last years of her life...as it would have only disturbed her more. As one tries not to cry when looking upon a dear one who has been given an untreatable diagnosis....we tried to be brave.

After a suffering being dies...all of these emotions can finally drain from us....as water through deep caves within our soul...we can finally find some peace.

My mother needed more time, but it could not be granted...and everyone cried for this. She requested no xtian pastor come, even upon her death. Her funeral turned into a reading of the lifetime of writing she left us in poems and song. Most of it showed such great sadness...it left the whole room in a very bad state. But, it stood as a testament to the reasons why she was who she was...and for this window into her heart, I am grateful.

For as many beings upon this planet, there are diverse reasons why a family would cry and become upset.

I have seen many over the span of my career. Each person told their story to me...and each one left and indelible mark upon my heart.

When the time comes, I hope these ones around me will smile and be happy for me, but I know tears would be inevitable as we have become so very fond of each other...it's only natural to want to keep our precious group together for as much time as we can.

But, love never dies...and hopefully they will be left with this truth above all else. Hopefully I live long enough to show them.

saidevo
28 January 2011, 08:41 AM
namaste everyone.

Although Hindus in practice do grieve death, it seems to me that the concept of death as only transmigration is built into the Hindu psyche.

• The first thought that occurs to a (Tamizh) Hindu towards the target person, when he/she condoles a death--or any misfortune for that matter--is 'pAvam!' Although this term is translated as 'poor man/woman/child' in English, the word actually means pApam--sin/karma, so the Hindu understands that a death or misfortune is according to one's karma.

• Mourning death by oppAri--wailing, was practised widely in the past, sometimes making one wonder if it was all just for show. Since women are easily moved to tears, in the earlier generations, they grieved death by wailing with profuse tears, beating their chests, forehead and letting their hands fall on the dead body with a thud. There are even oppAri songs sung on such occasions in villages.

• As against this, death of very old people who have seen life is often perceived as kalyANa sAvu--auspicious death. There is much less wailing and mourning, as people look upon the deceased as more divine than human.

• The mantras in Hindu death rituals are geared towards the deceased person attaining a good gati--path, in his/her afterlife.

Adhvagat
28 January 2011, 11:37 AM
Hello guys, as silly as it may sound, I was afraid of death these past days. And I now know from experience that a quick death (if not by accident or murder, I presume) is indeed a blessing. A very strong feeling on my heart that I identified as a heart attack (however my mother told me it was not and to just bathe) came to me suddenly two weeks ago, but I later found out it was a premonition for a friend who was going to get murdered some hours past the time of my crisis.

The pain on my chest seemed to increase and make me weak, all my energies were being drawn out of the coronary chakra, I even had to take out my astrology amulet, it was a burden to wear it on top of my heart. I felt discomfort in my heart everytime, I was really afraid I might have a heart disease of some sort. Attachment made me really afraid to abandon this earth so young, thinking about what I was going to be stopped from achieving, about the grieve of my parents. However, in the very time of the crisis I was just chanting mantras and accepting whatever was to come. Therefore, my conclusion about a quick death being a blessing to the person who leaves.

So I should add one more layer to the question EM presented... What happens when this death is caused by a murder? Can even people with philosophical and spiritual knowledge transcend the heavy thoughts of anger and non-acceptance?

I was outright devastated, I had the knowledge, however it was just unable to manifest because my mind was overpowering everything else. I just put my hand on my head and looked down and even If I tried to not feel anger, the inconformity turned into anger. My heart was weak (subtly and grossly) and fever blisters popped all over my mouth (repressed anger). And I wasn't even the immediate family of her, the victim.

Everything is better now. Agni hotra was done in the temple, everyone chanted the maha-mantra in a sweet rhythm I never heard before. A cycle was closed. And meanwhile in this world I went to the cardiologist and everything is fine.

:)

Eastern Mind
28 January 2011, 05:42 PM
Vannakkam Pietro: To me, it seems logical that the more unprepared one is, the less clarity there would be at the moment of transition. Therefore a murder or sudden car accident would tend to have the disembodied soul in more of a confused state. If, on the contrary, the individual soul drops its body in a state of religious awareness such as being surrounded by family, chanting mantrams, singing soft bhajans etc., it would follow that there would be more clarity as to where one is going. But I have no real experiential backing of this, just my gut and common sense.

As far as the method of death goes, one can only conclude its a personal karma. Philosophically, to be released of such karmas, (being murdered for example) it would be a boon. Emotionally, on the other hand, it would be more trying, naturally, at least for the survivors. Personally, I pray for a soft and smooth transition, but who knows what destiny or karma may await this soul temporarily inhabiting this bag of bones?

Aum Namasivaya

sunyata07
04 March 2011, 05:12 PM
Namaste,

Thought I would share my feelings on this post, as I remembered it from a while back and circumstances in my personal life have taken such a turn that the topic is very relevant to my thoughts of late. Firstly, I agree with the others on theory and practice of belief in reincarnation. It is one thing to have been raised with this faith, to have read the various scriptures that consistently affirm rebirth, etc. and another thing entirely to have a loved one die suddenly, or whose health takes a sudden turn for the worst. In these times, faith can indeed be hard to maintain. Doubt, like a venomous snake, can begin to raise its ugly head again and plague you with an unending amount of questions. Is this really the end? Will I ever see him/her again? Could the finality of death's nature be true? While these are the thoughts of those with no religion or a weakened faith, yes, I can understand how those less spiritually evolved might quaver in that moment of uncertainty that can come with a sudden death, or worse yet, when their loved ones are made to linger in some terminal illness and the relative/friend must watch them wither away before their very eyes.

Maya is indeed a powerful force that can work itself even into the most devout of hearts at the worst of times. Maybe some of you might remember me saying how my faith wavered a little in early 2010. Incidentally, I had been undergoing a philosophy course in college in which basically ~90% of the material and class were of the materialist/atheistic mindset. This had, I'm sad to say, somewhat of an effect on my spiritual progress. Not quite a setback, but it did make me question my faith in God, and I was still learning my way around the scriptures and the teachings of Sanatana Dharma. Someone close to me had a bad heart attack around that time, almost life-threatening, but it was not yet their time. Despite the sparing of her life, I remember being terribly distraught. Aside from my grandmothers, I had never had anyone that close to me die. It lingered with me for days, and I had even considered writing about it here, but ignored it and hoped to see it through which, through Ganesha's grace, I did.

Almost a year has passed since then, and I can say with great joy that my faith strengthened considerably. My finally being able to meet with the great teacher that was to become my beloved guru also helped me to see beyond that ever-present veil of delusion that pervades the West so much, this "I am the body" mentality that has even the most pious and religiously minded people I know weeping over the dead and the dying. Now it seems once again the heart of my loved one is failing, and I feel it won't be long before she will depart this life for good. And yet, I realise now that through God's mercy, I was given the gift of another year with her, and given the time to grow back in my faith and see once again that death is surely not the end, but only the beginning. The rest of my family, God bless them, have begun to lament again and weep over it, and I am doing my very best to comfort them. I have not cried yet, but I don't doubt that I will shed a few tears (the vestiges of attachment will remain for me in this lifetime, I fear) with them with the time comes to say goodbye.



But, love never dies...and hopefully they will be left with this truth above all else. Hopefully I live long enough to show them.


So true, Nayasurya. Your words remind me of lyrics I once heard: "Life is brief but when it's gone, love goes on and on." Let this be a comfort to us in trying times.

Om namah Shivaya

Adhvagat
04 March 2011, 05:39 PM
Sunyata, don't you think that it's possible to cry and understand at the same time?

Emotions and understanding don't work on the same level. Denying our emotions does not equal philosophical clarity. This particular phrase reminds me of this thread: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6767

The only thing that was taken from me (let me use this egoistic view for this particular point) was a pet cat that stayed with me all the time. It served as a great lesson for all of us here home regarding death and how the vital force is not contained within the body. But we all cried, specially me, it was completely intense, I couldn't understand. Deep sadness and the philosophical understanding (at least literal understanding) stood side by side and the beneficial outcome came from the encounter of these two elements.

It also made me see that people suffer because they are egoistic... I questioned myself: If eight years with this being on animal form wasn't enough... How long would it be? 15? 20 years? We suffer because we want more. Just like a child, I observed.

Om Tat Sat

sunyata07
05 March 2011, 05:52 AM
Sunyata, don't you think that it's possible to cry and understand at the same time?


Namaste, Pietro. I absolutely agree with you. Maybe you mistook my post in saying that understanding and accepting reincarnation means that one is somehow above such human reactions as sorrow for the loss of a loved one. I have never intimated that to have great spiritual understanding is to be devoid of emotion - far from it. What I'm saying is, when I cry this time around, it will not be while my mind is clouded in fear and doubt of what might be in store for the deceased one's soul. I will know at the back of my mind that this is a shedding of the old bodily sheath, but I will still feel great sadness at seeing them depart from me in this lifetime. Attachment to one's sorrow is what makes the difference, I guess was what I was trying to say.

Yes, your last point was something I was thinking about last night. The topic of euthanasia has come up before in the past when I was talking to some people over the morality of it. Again and again I was struck by how much people keep saying "I don't want to see him suffer" - when I look more closely at the first part of the sentence, I had my doubt as to whether wishing someone a speedy death was truly a benevolent wish on somebody's part, or just a way to make it easier for them to deal with death. It seems like a vaguely selfish wish because they don't want to have to go through the emotional pain of separation. So in some ways, yes, bereavement does indicate moderate attachment to the ego.

Om namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
05 March 2011, 08:44 AM
Vannakkam Sunyata, Pietro et al: One cannot tell from external show what another person is going through on the inside. I remember my grandfather's funeral when my father just had to go for a walk ... off to the bushes just to be by himself for awhile. He also had to do the same to humanely put down family pets that were suffering. It was just his duty, yet as a child, I saw the sadness in his face each time he returned. He couldn't hide it, although he may have thought he did.

The other day at the temple a person mentioned to me "it was such a shock," regarding a recent death. (the same one that initiatied this thread). I thought, 'Was it really?" The man was ill, getting on a bit in years. Was it really all that surprising? Not to me. But it was to my friend, apparently. Either that or she was just being nice. It was hard to tell. Personally, I am no longer surprised. The one thing we did agree on is that as we age, we go o more funerals.

As far as euthanasia goes, certainly I am against it in humans, especially given the technology of pain reduction. Morphine in the right amounts is a godsend. Fasting or 'pulling the plug' is another matter, as its not euthanasia, in my opinion.

I really like the 'in the back of the mind I knew' expression used by Sunyata and others. It is such a great solace for everyone. I often wonder if the expression originated from the fact that that is the location of the pituitary or pineal glands, and the superconscious all knowing mind.

Aum Namasivaya

Jodhaa
25 August 2012, 10:19 PM
Namaste all,

I've found this topic late, but it's been on my mind for some reason, so I wanted to comment. Thank you to everyone for your insightful comments.

I have always been uncomfortable with the rituals surrounding death. I don't like funerals or wakes. It's not death itself that upsets me. Whenever I have cried in reaction to a death it has been for the sadness I have seen in other survivors. They're powerful expressions of emotion rub off on me, I suppose. When I experienced the death of my grandmother at the age of 11, I was confused by everyone's reaction. Even thinking as a Christian (which I was at the time) I thought , "But she's in heaven now. Her pain is over. Why is everyone so upset?". When I saw her body in the coffin, I remember my first thought clearly, "She's not there."

I knew that what made my grandmother her, was gone - at least gone from that body. It took me a long time to get over the resentment I felt for having to view her body, because for a very long time it was all I could think of when I thought of her - I had been temporarily robbed of my memories of her while she was alive - which I thought was what was worth celebrating and remembering.

Later, at age 16, a classmate died of cancer. I was not that close to her, but I was on friendly terms with her. My mother was appalled that I didn't want to attend the funeral. I offered to make a piece of art for her family as a show of support instead. ( I understand loss and understand the importance of a supportive community.) My mother had a fit and told me that my gesture wasn't good enough. I think she read my unwillingness to attend as trying to run from grief. But how does one run from grief that one doesn't feel? Am I heartless? Am I emotionally defective?

I think it is still possible to mourn and miss the "personality that was this person" without loosing sight of the fact that the eternal part of them, the atman, is not gone and never will be. I think the part of us that is constrained by our attachment to that person will always illicit grief at their passing. But I think death should also be used to celebrate that person's life - the effect they had on you, and how they've made the world better. I think there is more than one way to cope with death as well. Some of us don't cry. Some of us take the opportunity to reflect on what death means and remember that person as they were in life, rather then thinking of them as a lifeless body in a coffin.


Just my thoughts. Thanks for reading.

Peace!

Eastern Mind
28 August 2012, 11:48 PM
Vannakkam Jodha: I'm quite similar to you, so you're not alone. I've always been mystified at how some people interpreted my reaction as 'cold'. It is such a personal thing, and just as we on here should respect other views politely on all the things Hindu, so it should be in the nature of grieving. I just happen to have an uncrying 'in-control' type personality. One good thing, I suppose , its that it enabled me to deliver 3 eulogies, including both parents. But I was happy my sister could bawl to her heart's content. Others who are more emotional couldn't have done that. Some people are good navigators. Others get lost in their own house.

Aum namasivaya

Seeker
31 August 2012, 11:36 AM
Namaste EM Ji,

I have seen a funeral procession at Tanjore Tamil Nadu , and it proceeded with song and dance. It was a strange sight - people in front of the procession were beating drums and dancing , but at the back , few folks were following with visible tears in the eyes.

I googled and found the following video at youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuBDuSB5l88&feature=related

and the scenario I saw was very similar.

In the funeral I saw , the corpse belonged to a very old person. My guess is that it wont be a celebratory one for a young person's corpse.