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BryonMorrigan
05 February 2011, 09:58 AM
I know many people who post here are in India, and so you might be able to give me some pointers and what-not.

My family (me, wife, three daughters) are thinking of moving to India. My income from writing, as well as my pension from the Army, allows me to make a living from wherever I have a good Internet connection...so I don't need to worry about getting a job or anything.

What we'd REALLY like to do is buy property for cash, but since that might not be possible (since we're not Indian citizens) we might be open to some kind of long-term lease where we "basically" own it.

Essentially, here are the things we want:

1. A BIG house. We're used to living in 4000+ square feet Victorian houses. We don't want to "downgrade" to a tiny place. Maybe one of those places with the nice big courtyard in the center.

2. An old/traditional house. Something that has some interesting "style" to it. I currently live in a house from 1883, and I hate "modern" buildings.

3. Maybe not directly in the heart of the city...but near enough to a city that we don't have to travel too far to get to one.

4. Access to decent schooling for our daughters...and NOT in a Christian school.

So basically, if anyone has any advice on how to find such a place, or knows some "tricks" or other advice to help us...let me know. Thanks!

NayaSurya
05 February 2011, 10:17 AM
I can't help you with the move, but I want to wish you so much happiness on your family's journey home.<3

sm78
05 February 2011, 11:07 AM
Dear Bryon, while I feel proud as an Indian that you want to move to India, I have to agree with PARAM (but perhaves in less scary way), that it will not be the best decision - particularly with things you have in mind (big house etc). If you are used to staying in cramped apartments in busy metros of USA, then probably moving to cities like bangalore or mumbai won't be difficult. But that;s not what you have in mind.

India ranks low in so many development indices. Law and order is one of the worst in the world. Hindus inspite being a majority are still far from getting out of their coma. And then there is huge inequality which is very glaring to the eye. West is capitalist, but real inequality is only to be seen here.

With all this, I don't feel like welcoming you. Life probably can be lead much more peacefully else where.

But that said, there are many westerners who have made India their home and successfully so, for the calling was too powerful.

But, I suggest you come on-and off through tourist travels or for business reasons and get to know the country and life here better before making such a big decision. There are also gems in the Indian life which cannot be found in western living (I know since I have done both). But initial challanges would be huge, and I would like that you experience and think through those carefully. This is more so because you have a family with 3 kids. For a single person it would have been much easy and probably I wouldn't have scared you.

EM and other westerners who have been regular visitors can give you the best perspective. I encourage them to share their thoughts.

sm78
05 February 2011, 11:11 AM
The main interest that we have in moving there is due to my research in India. I mean, since I'm trying to write a textbooks on the history of India and Hinduism...it seems silly to be doing so from America, right? ;)

Then I suggest you visit alone and check it out yourself for a month or two, if its not a big problem for you and family. The idea of moving with 3 kids and wife is the main reason troubling me.

BryonMorrigan
05 February 2011, 11:25 AM
Then I suggest you visit alone and check it out yourself for a month or two, if its not a big problem for you and family.

That's in the plan as well. This isn't something that I'm planning on doing like...next month or anything... I always spend a lot of time planning and researching before any big decision like this...and this discussion is merely "part one."

I am taking your (and PARAM's) cautions seriously however...

Eastern Mind
05 February 2011, 11:37 AM
Vannakkam Bryon: I suggest you go to the website Indiamike and read up on what others there have said. The questions you pose have already been posed and answered there several times.

From my understanding it is incredibly difficult without a reason. India has laws against such moves. The normal visa is 6 months. Some people sort of manage it by traveling outside (Nepal or Sri Lanka usually) and re-applying for a new visa every 6 months. There are exceptions, of course, like working visas, student visas, even 10 year visas for exceptional purposes, or marrying an Indian National. Because the cost of living is so low, I believe India has put a stop to it so that every Tom Dick and Harry from Europe and the US doesn't just pack up and move, increasing an already problematic population problem. There are some countries (Malaysia for example) that actually encourage it with their 'Home away from Home' 10 year visa and cheap property deal. India, however, is not one such country.

But as you said, its a whim sort of, and obviously much more investigation on your part would need to occur. For sure property is more expensive than you might imagine, but again, that depends on where you want to move to. There would also be more fees attached to that.

A few letters or an interview with the local consulate or embassy would be another way of seeking answers.

Best wishes.

Aum Namasivaya

harekrishna
05 February 2011, 09:15 PM
Bryon,
I was born and brought up in India. After my undergrad (Bachelor's degree), I moved to USA. I was there for 16 years. I moved back to Bangalore, India three years back. I can give you my first hand experience.



My family (me, wife, three daughters) re thinking of moving to India. My income from writing, as well as my pension from the Army, allows me to make a living from wherever I have a good Internet connection...so I don't need to worry about getting a job or anything.


Internet is not an issue. You can get DSL or now 3G. So, if you want, you can sit in a coffee shop and do your work.




1. A BIG house. We're used to living in 4000+ square feet Victorian houses. We don't want to "downgrade" to a tiny place. Maybe one of those places with the nice big courtyard in the center.

2. An old/traditional house. Something that has some interesting "style" to it. I currently live in a house from 1883, and I hate "modern" buildings.

3. Maybe not directly in the heart of the city...but near enough to a city that we don't have to travel too far to get to one.


This will be the toughest thing to do. There are not many 4000+ sq feet houses near or around houses. In India, the housing is mostly apartment type houses. However, there are villas (could be around 3K-3.5K sq feet) in a gated community in Bangalore, that should work well for you. In the gated community, everything is taken care of (basic amenities as well as security). In the community, people have visited various countries, so you could get a better community. I think this should work well for you. I would not suggest buying these things first, but renting it out. Stay for a while, you can get a feel, and then decide.

[qoute]
4. Access to decent schooling for our daughters...and NOT in a Christian school.
[/quote]
Possible. There are international schools offering IG courses which are international courses. They can go there. The Indian boards can be difficult for foreigners, but these are international courses. One can use these to get admission to US Universities as well.

The expense might be higher than what you are projecting.
PM me if you want more information.

HariH Om!

devotee
05 February 2011, 10:12 PM
Dear Bryon,

You should not be wary of law and order situation etc. which is not as bad as is being projected in the posts above, mostly written by Indians who are not in India now. When you see from outside, you don't get a correct picture as the news which comes to us through media is normally sensational and exceptional. There are exceptions but exceptions don't make the rule.

Yes, EM has pointed out some really difficult issues to sort out :

i) It would be difficult for you to get a very long term VISA for yourself and your family. Please check it from Indian Embassy first. This is very very important because you have school going children with you.

ii) As the population of India is high, the property values in cities are very high. If you resolve your VISA issues, I would advise you take a flat in New Delhi or Bombay or Kolkata if you want to stay in a big city. If you prefer life at leisurely pace then I would advise you to try any hill station like Simla, Dehradun, Gangtok, Shillong etc.

iii) You may get much cheaper property in small places but that is not advisable as you are a foreigner and so you must stay in a place which is used to see many foreigners everyday to avoid any unnecessary attention.

iv) Schooling is not an issue. You can easily get a good school if you are ready to pay a handsome fee.

**************

So, as others have advised you, you may make a lone visit to India and see things yourself.

OM

Eastern Mind
05 February 2011, 10:23 PM
Vannakkam again Bryon: Just to further illustrate what I said before, you and harekrishna fall into different legal categories. He can apply and get with relative ease a PIO card (PIO meaning Person of Indian Origin). There are also other categories like NRIs or Non Resident Indian. You and me, on the other hand are simple foreigners with no status at all.

I cannot easily move to the US either. It may seem like it would be easy but it isn't. I need to get a green card, or only come 6 months at a time. There are certain ways around it, most of them extremely difficult like investing enough money into a business to provide jobs for Americans. I am not sure if the reverse applies regarding US citizens moving to Canada. Certainly you can't move up here and take advantage of our health care system, as there is something like having lived in Canada for 20 years as a stipulation. All countries have different laws, so best to look into it carefully. I've heard of careless people overstaying their 6 month Indian visitor visas, and gotten thrown in jail or deported with no further opportunity for another visa because of it.

Aum Namasivaya

harekrishna
06 February 2011, 09:45 AM
Vannakkam again Bryon: Just to further illustrate what I said before, you and harekrishna fall into different legal categories. He can apply and get with relative ease a PIO card (PIO meaning Person of Indian Origin). There are also other categories like NRIs or Non Resident Indian. You and me, on the other hand are simple foreigners with no status at all.

EM Jee,
Agreed. First Bryon needs to make sure that he can legally do that. There might be a way to do that, he needs to figure that out.
The point I was trying to make is that, with careful planning, it is possible to have a decent and comfortable life in India. The expectation and challenges are different than a developed soceity such as USA, so one has to pay close attention to it.
HariH Om!

Eastern Mind
06 February 2011, 08:52 PM
Vannakkam Bryon:

Devotee beat me to it. In my travels in India I think I felt safer than here in Canada. (Of course I was sensible.) You won't have any problem that way. America is scarier. I think there might be some really scary countries in Africa, perhaps Columbia even, but India is a safe place. About the only crime is petty theft. I hope you can go for at least a year or so. You can rent a large apartment on the outskirts of a city perhaps. But first, of course you have to get past the stuff I talked about before.

I think some of the Indians here have to move around their own country more. At least I know Devotee has done that.

Besides that, there are some very real great misunderstandings about the west. But if you're like me, living here you know to just ignore those wild assumptions that come up once in a while.

Aum Namasivaya

satay
06 February 2011, 10:20 PM
Admin Note
Please keep it on topic and follow the forum rules. Spewing venom about India and Indians is against the forum rules.

Thanks,

satay
06 February 2011, 10:39 PM
Namaste Bryon,
Eveyone has given you excellent advice already. Like others have suggested and like you are planning to, when you visit India by yourself you will get the first hand info. That's the only way to decide about such a move.

For foreigners there is a always the 'cultural' shock no matter how many movies or pictures of India one has seen. Once that cultural shock is over India is a great place to live and raise a family. Most of us NRI's are out of our home because of economic reasons but if for a person there is no such need or reason then there really is no other reason to leave India.

Like a lot of other NRI's I dream of going back to the lap of my mother once I finish my duties here. There are a lot of people that I am aware of that left successful careers and materialistic lives in Canada and US for a simple or different life in India.

Do your own research but I think living in India for a foreigner is rewarding and is best value for money. You will live as luxrious or as simple a life as you would want.

If I were you, I would do at least two visits, one by myself and the second one with my family. It is also good to have contact with someone you know in India. If you don't know anyone there I would suggest making a connection from a member on this forum. India is amazingly welcoming to non-Indians. Since you are a hindu, I suspect on your first visit to India you will feel like where the heck have you been all your life. Your body might not at first but your soul will feel at home as soon as you walk out of the airport. :)

Believer
06 February 2011, 11:14 PM
I don't know if my opinion would clarify things or muddy them even further, but here it is.....

Generally speaking, we tend to project our experiences of our lives in a city, town or village to the whole of India and the picture comes out very skewed. It is a vast country with very different life values, crime levels and climes. Add to that your needs/requirements as a family man - big house, decent schools and availability of high speed Internet, and the complexity for recommendations increases many-folds.

For good educational facilities, one has to live in a big city. Smaller cities/towns just don't have high caliber of schools or instructors, sorry you small town dwellers. Rents in big cities are pretty high. A floor, about 200 Sq. yard total area, in a 3-4 story building in a moderate neighborhood, would cost an average of 3-4 lakhs/year to rent. Living on the outskirts of a city is fine and dandy for a monastic couple, but for the sake of kid's education, you have to be in-the-city. Internet may not be very reliable if you move away from the city. Indians are good in writing the software/firmware, but the server hardware maintenance which used to be bad, has gotten better. Power outages, specially during peak usage during summer can drive you nuts, both with the heat and lack of availability of Internet.

My take is that in general, law and order situation is better in the South than in the Northern cities. Cost of clothing/household furnishings etc would be less in the warmer Southern climes than in the Northern climes. Then there is the preference for the local language, if any, that kids would be learning at school. Hindi, being the de facto national language is not liked at all in Chennai and maybe in some other Southern cities (need validation from someone currently living in that area).

With 4 lakh/year set aside for travel and emergencies, you have 12 lakhs to work with. Living in a city for convenience/comfort/safety/educational facilities/access to happenings, is kind of expensive and you will have to compromise on the size of the accommodations that you desire. Living in one of those Western style gated communities in a high-rise is for Indians going back at retirement, who are loaded. I am not sure if it is for you.

Bottom line: Affordability with your finances in a city would be in a modest flat. Warmer clime cities starting in Central India and going South/East/West are better. Kolkotta having been under the commie rule for decades, has been under unofficial wage/price controls, and I hear cost of living there is cheaper (validation needed from someone living there currently) than in other major big cities. Just my 2 cents worth of realistic analysis considering all your needs/funding availability.

Good luck, and I apologize if I thoroughly confused you. :)

charitra
24 February 2011, 11:15 AM
[quote=BryonMorrigan;57566]I know many people who post here are in India, and so you might be able to give me some pointers and what-not.

Bryon Hi Namaste,

Assuming that you didnt consider this already, would you consider enrolling as a PhD candidate in a university setting?

The idea is worth exploring and looking into. Since in your case funding is not an issue, your and your family longterm stay will be facilitated thru this route, 'cause as a student you get to surpass the limitations of visa imposed on travellers. FYI there are many foreign students living in India as we speak. If an appropriate thesis is chosen and mutually approved by yourself and the chair, then your domestic travel may not be an issue, I think. Something to do with hinduism/ various mandirs/regional traditions across the land. My aunt chose a thesis that never ever required her to go to the versity physically, other than meeting the chair once in every couple of months or so; she got her PhD on a hindu topic. This was in Hyderabad.

Apart from weblinks of the universities, you ought to actually talk to the staff on phone (there are ways to call india very cheap). Cheers, shanti, charitra.

TatTvamAsi
24 February 2011, 09:24 PM
I know many people who post here are in India, and so you might be able to give me some pointers and what-not.

My family (me, wife, three daughters) are thinking of moving to India. My income from writing, as well as my pension from the Army, allows me to make a living from wherever I have a good Internet connection...so I don't need to worry about getting a job or anything.

What we'd REALLY like to do is buy property for cash, but since that might not be possible (since we're not Indian citizens) we might be open to some kind of long-term lease where we "basically" own it.

Essentially, here are the things we want:

1. A BIG house. We're used to living in 4000+ square feet Victorian houses. We don't want to "downgrade" to a tiny place. Maybe one of those places with the nice big courtyard in the center.

2. An old/traditional house. Something that has some interesting "style" to it. I currently live in a house from 1883, and I hate "modern" buildings.

3. Maybe not directly in the heart of the city...but near enough to a city that we don't have to travel too far to get to one.

4. Access to decent schooling for our daughters...and NOT in a Christian school.

So basically, if anyone has any advice on how to find such a place, or knows some "tricks" or other advice to help us...let me know. Thanks!

Wow, Bryon, I am amazed at your dedication. You truly are a Sanatani (Hindu) at heart!

I will add my 2 Rupees as well but please take all "advice" with a grain of salt, I mean, coconut chutney! ;)

India is truly a world in itself. Have you decided which part (north, south, east, west) you want to move to? The reason I ask is they are vastly different. In fact, each state is like a different 'country'; similar to the EU in some ways.

Language will not be an issue as India is now home to the largest English speaking population.

If you move to a big city like Bangalore, you will be closer to "home" in some ways; public transportation, amenities, and other 'comforts' are within easy reach.

As someone else suggested, moving into a gated community will perhaps "ease" your experience into India before you go out into the "real" India. India is as raw as can be. People, generally speaking, are very hospitable and will be even more so because you lack melanin in your skin.

When you go there, find some Indian Christians and tell them you're Hindu and think Christianity is garbage; watch the reaction and put it up on YouTube! :D That would be one to savor! LOL....

There are many wonderful schools; even the Krishnamurti schools that are holistic in their education and some Hindu schools as well.

Sad fact is that when I was living in India, I went to a Christian school. Travesty doesn't begin to describe it.

I would also recommend visiting various parts of India with your family and then have long discussions and share thoughts on it. Then you can really decide which part of India will be right for you and your family.

Better to know someone in India when visiting; most Indians will be glad to help.

Good luck and again, really respect your decision and makes your dedication to Hinduism and India complete.

Eastern Mind
24 February 2011, 10:48 PM
. People, generally speaking, are very hospitable and will be even more so because you lack melanin in your skin.

When you go there, find some Indian Christians and tell them you're Hindu and think Christianity is garbage; watch the reaction and put it up on YouTube! :D That would be one to savor! LOL....


Vannakkam TTA: These are really valid points. I find the Indian Hindus really love western Hindus. They must be so sick of western camera toting tourists and worse, Christian evangelicals. The poor Christian Indians at first think, "Yes, another one.. more money, etc. But then when they see you smeared in vibhuthi and entering a majestic temple, you can see the jaws drop in disappointment. I wish there were many more western Hindus going over there, It would do a lot to uplift the self-esteem of the average Hindu being bombarded by the condescending Brits and others over the last 200 years. But it has to be done in humility and by example, not in any 'separate' way. Just put the camera away and do some serious worship.

Aum Namasivaya

BryonMorrigan
25 February 2011, 08:36 AM
Wow, Bryon, I am amazed at your dedication. You truly are a Sanatani (Hindu) at heart!

Thanks!


India is truly a world in itself. Have you decided which part (north, south, east, west) you want to move to? The reason I ask is they are vastly different. In fact, each state is like a different 'country'; similar to the EU in some ways.

Not yet. Like I said before, a lot of research and preparation will have to go into these kinds of decisions first. I figure that we'll spend a vacation over there first and see what places "feel" right. I don't want to be anywhere near the "unrest" in the Northeast or J&K, and certainly not in a place like Goa that's full of Christians.


When you go there, find some Indian Christians and tell them you're Hindu and think Christianity is garbage; watch the reaction and put it up on YouTube! :D That would be one to savor! LOL....

LOL. I'll be sure to call them "Mlecchas" for you. ;)


Good luck and again, really respect your decision and makes your dedication to Hinduism and India complete.

Thanks again.

jasdir
25 February 2011, 08:44 AM
I know many people who post here are in India, and so you might be able to give me some pointers and what-not.

My family (me, wife, three daughters) are thinking of moving to India. My income from writing, as well as my pension from the Army, allows me to make a living from wherever I have a good Internet connection...so I don't need to worry about getting a job or anything.

What we'd REALLY like to do is buy property for cash, but since that might not be possible (since we're not Indian citizens) we might be open to some kind of long-term lease where we "basically" own it.

Essentially, here are the things we want:

1. A BIG house. We're used to living in 4000+ square feet Victorian houses. We don't want to "downgrade" to a tiny place. Maybe one of those places with the nice big courtyard in the center.

2. An old/traditional house. Something that has some interesting "style" to it. I currently live in a house from 1883, and I hate "modern" buildings.

3. Maybe not directly in the heart of the city...but near enough to a city that we don't have to travel too far to get to one.

4. Access to decent schooling for our daughters...and NOT in a Christian school.

So basically, if anyone has any advice on how to find such a place, or knows some "tricks" or other advice to help us...let me know. Thanks!

Friend usally indians want to sattle in U S A, and you want to sattle in India, Why ? :D

There would be some great reasons behind, Can i know man !!!? :(

_/\_ Jasdir

PARAM
25 February 2011, 10:01 AM
Friend usally indians want to sattle in U S A, and you want to sattle in India, Why ? :D

There would be some great reasons behind, Can i know man !!!? :(


He is a Author and wants to write a Book on Hinduism.

However My advise is he should not settle in India, he can visit as tourist or business. India - 2% of World's land and 17% population is not the ideal place for settlement.

Believer
25 February 2011, 11:01 AM
However My advise is he should not settle in India, he can visit as tourist or business. India - 2&#37; of World's land and 17% population is not the ideal place for settlement.

Param, you are a nice boy, but you tend to see the whole country from the perspective of the village/town that you live in. How many states have you been to, or lived in? I suggest you get out of your hometown and see the country before you speak on behalf of the entire 2% of World's land. Perhaps traveling across India will change your thinking. Materialism is not the only measure of a nation. Sure there is lawlessness in certain areas and there are some very bad people in India, like everywhere else; but spirituality oozes out of the eyes of an average Indian. Go meditate on that!

NayaSurya
25 February 2011, 11:28 AM
I was at the gas station last July 3rd on our way to the our vacation in a special place. In that location were three families from the place we were going...and they had come to our state for vacation.

At the time I felt silly...seeing these other beings headed to my home for a treat...and all the while we were spending money to leave. But we were seeking different things...we wanted amusement park...they wanted forest and beautiful nature...something we have year round.

Flash forward to this past December...in an attempt to get away from xtians and the christmas holidays my lil sister and I devised we would get rent a cabin for a week in some beautiful location upon a hill. So I began to search and found this breathtaking view! It was perfect! I decided to find out where these rentals by a beautiful lake were.

It was my home here on this hill...the lake was our very own.

The property just a walk from my own home.:p

I had to call my sis to tell her...what we are seeking is what we have.

Indians may come here, they have something they are seeking. Americans may go there...we have something we are seeking.

This is the way of the world. As long as what you are seeking can not be found in your own back yard....then a move would be wise, right?

What Bryon is seeking is very very difficult to find here...and so a move is wise. Had my children been less vocal, I would make the same move. Teenagers, dislike change.

PARAM
26 February 2011, 08:47 AM
Param, you are a nice boy, but you tend to see the whole country from the perspective of the village/town that you live in. How many states have you been to, or lived in? I suggest you get out of your hometown and see the country before you speak on behalf of the entire 2&#37; of World's land. Perhaps traveling across India will change your thinking. Materialism is not the only measure of a nation. Sure there is lawlessness in certain areas and there are some very bad people in India, like everywhere else; but spirituality oozes out of the eyes of an average Indian. Go meditate on that!

If I tell the name of States, Cities, Towns, Villages (I do not remember all name) will you be satisfied? India has three times of population then USA, which is three times bigger then India.

Population problem is alarming here, Dessert is rising, Agriculture land is shrinking, and the govt is not doing anything, it is busy in appeasing anti Hindu.



There is the need of Hindu area in USA; this will ease all problems of Bryon Morrigan, Naya Surya and all others.