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anatman
06 February 2011, 11:23 AM
Hello Hindus!!

Jai Shankara!!

Here is a debate between Zakir Naik's Peace TV, Abdullah Tariq, who is considered to be among the greatest scholars of Islam in India and guru of Dr. Zakir, was crushed by Pandit Mahendra Pal Arya of Arya Samaj in a debate.

Please circulate these videos to fellow innocent Hindus.

There are only 2000 average views for this debate and Zakir Naik's videos get a views around thousands and more..

Mods, if these videos are already published in these forums, then plz delete this thread.

There are 16 parts of this debate on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ-JCt24nFE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-DkJHDouMM&feature=related

Ramakrishna
08 February 2011, 11:44 PM
Namaste anatman,

I would love to watch it, but unfortunately the videos don't have English subtitles :(

Jai Sri Ram

anatman
09 February 2011, 03:03 AM
Thats okay Ramakrishna :),

Most of the questions raised by the Arya Samaj on Islam and Zakir NAik in the debate can be found in this link

http://agniveer.com/category/misc/zakir-naik/

Please also go through the entire website, its awesome!!

Jai Shankara!!

PARAM
09 February 2011, 09:28 AM
Islam vs. Arya Samaj Started during the time of Swami Dayanand
Swami Shraddhanand started Shuddhi Movement and Cow Protection Movement.


There is something great about it, Mirza Gulam Ahmad the founder of Ahmadiya sect was always out to attack the Hindus. Pundit Lekhram Defeated him in wits and logics.



Mirza himself deputed a man to assassinate Pt Lekh Ram, he was also investigated by the police for the murder but was not prosecuted because of senior Christian police officers.
Mirza even made a false claim that, Pundit Lekhram disrespected Guru Nanak; this claim is still supported by Muslims in disguise.

Lakshmi Devi Ji, the widow of Pt Lekh Ram cursed Mirza; his sect will be rejected by those for whose sake he had murdered Lekhram. Arya samaj do not believe in cruse and boons, but this cruse worked and Ahmadiyas are still considered as non Muslims in Pakistan

mohanty
15 February 2011, 07:28 AM
These debates have been going on for a long time. It was as a result of these in the years preceding India's independence from the British Raj in 1947, that a number of Arya Samaj leaders were attacked. There were a few assassinations as well.

The reason RSS cadres are given physical training and martial arts training is because of the always possible physical violence that follows such conversations.

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 07:46 AM
It's ironic how the one sect of Hinduism who has been influenced the most by abrahamitic religions, except for the Brahmo Samaj, is fighting the hardest against Islam and Christianity. People who follow very closely related doctrines are more inclined to debate each other.

Even in the bhashya of the vedas of the Arya Samajists we can find back the mentality of Islam.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8743/av12562.pnghttp://truthofhinduism.com/wp-content/uploads/av%2012_5_62.png
Atharva Veda 12:5:62 Kill the people by cutting them by tearing them by burning them into ashes by blowing those who speak ill of the Vedas.

mohanty
15 February 2011, 07:49 AM
It's ironic how the one sect of Hinduism who has been influenced the most by abrahamitic religions, except for the Brahmo Samaj, is fighting the hardest against Islam and Christianity. People who follow very closely related doctrines are more inclined to debate each other.

Even in the bhashya of the vedas of from the Arya Samajists we can find back the mentality of Islam.

http://truthofhinduism.com/wp-content/uploads/av%2012_5_62.png

Atharva Veda 12:5:62 Kill the people by cutting them by tearing them by burning them into ashes by blowing those who speak ill of the Vedas.

Is that from a commentary or from the Atharva Veda itself?

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 07:54 AM
This is an Arya Samaj translation of the vedic mantra.

mohanty
15 February 2011, 07:58 AM
Distressing.

Can you throw some light on the actual mantra and it's proper translation?

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 08:13 AM
I will try to find it.

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 08:26 AM
http://hindudharmaforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=641&stc=1&d=1297779826


This is the Sanatana Dharma translation: "Oh unkillable, cut the killers of a Brahmana, cut them well. Burn them, burn them well."

mohanty
15 February 2011, 08:52 AM
Thank you! This seems part of a hymn. Wonder who it referred to.

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 08:55 AM
It's referred to gomata, mother cow, the devata of the sukta is brahmagavi.

It's also interesting to note that in this vedic hymn gomata is called aghnye, which means that she should not be killed.

PARAM
15 February 2011, 10:43 AM
------------------

I think you are going too far for your hatred against Arya Samaj, and support of Islam this way.

Who made Shuddhi Aandolan? Who made Cow Protection Movement? Who objected British depression in the time of their main era ?

Have you saved anyone from being converted? Have you reconverted anyone? Have you protected any cow or calf from being massacred?

Now show your hatred against Veer Savarkar, Bhagat Singh, Ram Prasad Bismil, etc also, as they all were Arya Samajis. Also show your hatred against Chandrasekhar Azad, Dr. Hedgewar etc who supported Arya Samajis.



-------------
His views are his personal, there is not a single Hindu organization in India which directly or indirectly is not supporting Samaj

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 10:50 AM
I think you are going to far in your defence of Arya Samaj that you are getting worked up whenever I criticise their doctrine, even when they clearly have adopted some of the thoughts of the abrahamic religions. All I am doing here is comparing one translation of a vedic mantra with another. The Arya Samaj translation happens to resemble a page from the koran, there's nothing I can do about that. I am not saying that the Arya Samaj is all bad, they have their good elements and bad ones. But if you do not allow me to criticise them, then you are no better than those andha vishvasis (blind believers) Swami Dayananda was fighting so hard against.

PARAM
15 February 2011, 10:53 AM
I think you are going to far in your defence of Arya Samaj that you are getting worked up whenever I criticise their doctrine, even when they clearly have adopted some of the thoughts of the abrahamic religions.

I will defend those who defended Dharma, weather it is you or somebody else who is criticising them.

My question is have you defended Dharma in your life ? If not then first do it yourself and then question about others.

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 11:50 AM
You are sounding like an evangelist asking me how many people I have converted. It's very difficult to discuss Arya Samaj philosophy on an internet forum, because everything you bring up some criticism, someone is going to list all the social activities Arya Samajis were involved in. Just look objectively at the translations in Hindi I have posted above and make up your own mind. Oftentimes when mullas quote from the vedas saying that Hinduism is monotheisic, against idolatry and in the above case aggressive against non-believers, they are using translations from the Arya Samaj.

mohanty
15 February 2011, 11:52 AM
Hey Param,

Chill bhai. Arya Samaj had to take some drastic steps in a drastic time. It was somewhat inevitable. We must have a rational view of our history if it is to be of any use to us in the future. I don't think Sahasranama ji said anything derogatory about Arya Samaj. He just pointed out a fact.

Aaram se. :)

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 12:02 PM
Well, I do not hate Arya Samaj. I had a teacher who was from Arya Samaj and I am very friendly with him and I even join their neo-yajnas. But they also give me a lot of flyers with Arya Samaj propoganda, kinda like the jehova witnesses. Swami Dayananda was highly critical against Sanatana Dharma and our rituals, gods and scriptures, so we should not be afraid to take a critical look at their doctrine.

Something I appreciate from Swami Dayananda is his criticism of the medieval commentators of the vedas, namely those of Mahidhara and Uvata and that he relied on the nirukta and criticised the indologists, that's all very good. What I criticise is his insistence on pure abrahamic-like monotheism, rejection of idol worship and rejection everything that is not "vedic."

It quite ironical, when Arya Samjis criticise our idols they call it rational, but when Sanatanis criticise Samajis, people start saying "we shouldn't fight, we are all Hindus, look at what all the good the Arya Samaj has done." If we really want to learn from Dayananda we should not shun from looking critically at his doctrine and not act like blind-believers of his Samaj.

sm78
15 February 2011, 12:02 PM
My question is have you defended Dharma in your life ? If not then first do it yourself and then question about others.

LOL ... I see this line of argumentation pioneered by Anantama and myself is catching on.