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mohanty
12 February 2011, 03:07 AM
Meera Nanda has written an article called "Not as old as you think" in which she argues that all the hue and cry being made over Yoga having a Hindu origin is poppycock and Yoga is actually a very recent phenomenon.

The article is here: http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/not-as-old-as-you-think

Thought it would be a good idea to have it here and discuss it.

Ramakrishna
15 February 2011, 01:41 AM
Namaste Mohanty,

It really doesn't help our case when Indians themselves are claiming that yoga is not of Hindu origin. But I suppose this lady is another sellout just like Deepak Chopra.

It's true that some places that teach yoga in the US do sort of acknowledge the Hindu roots and they chant Sanskrit mantras and such, but the whole reason the Take Back Yoga campaign started was because growing numbers of people are trying to claim otherwise and refuse to acknowledge the Hindu roots of yoga.

I don't see the point of her argument that HAF is trying to move past the "cows, caste, and curry" stereotype that a lot of Americans have of Hinduism. They haven't made it any secret that this campaign is part of a larger goal of making Hindus in the US proud of their faith and all that it has given to the world. It's true that a lot of ignorant westerners just think of the caste system and many deities when they think of Hinduism. It's time to move past that.

"Chopra, who does indeed shun the Hindu label and calls himself an ‘Advaita Vedantist’ instead, declared that Hinduism had no patent on yoga.":rolleyes: How ridiculous. An Advaita Vedantist...I can't believe I actually once respected this guy. He does say some interesting and intelligent things about reincarnation, but besides that he has really done nothing good for Hinduism. And his argument that Hindus have as much claim over yoga as Christians have over bread and wine is literally one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in my life...

"It seems this yoga-reclamation campaign is less about yoga, and more about the Indian diaspora’s strange mix of defensiveness and an exaggerated sense of the excellence of the elite, Sanskritic aspects of Hindu religion and culture."
And this lady is Indian? I'm assuming she's lived in India her entire life. She should try living in the West for a few years then she will know what this "defensiveness" is. I wonder if she is even Hindu? There is definitely no "exaggerated sense of the excellence of the elite, Sanskritic aspects" of Hinduism. Not even close. Not only the west, but most of the world has yet to realize all the wisdom and knowledge contained in the Vedas and other Hindu texts.

Jai Sri Ram

mohanty
15 February 2011, 01:52 AM
Namaste Ramakrishna ji

Meera Nanda is a small cog in the Marxist history machine. Their work involves practicing the twisted version of secularism that is prevalent in India today. Indeed, they created this version.

Meera Nanda is a simple old Hindu hater. Her knowledge of Hinduism is laughable, but she claims tom be an expert and writes on how Hinduism is a threat to world peace. :) Interestingly, she makes no such claim about any other religion.

Read this: http://www.sandeepweb.com/2009/04/08/meera-nandas-proudly-struts-her-ignorance/

and this: http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/politics/bogey.html

... to know more about the nature of her work.

As for Deepak Chopra, my views are the same as yours. He has been instrumental in propagating the Hindu view of life in the west, but he always ignores and hurts the Hindu culture that is the source of his bread and butter.

devotee
15 February 2011, 03:10 AM
Namaste Mohanty,



Meera Nanda is a small cog in the Marxist history machine.

You don't need any further information about this lady to predict her behaviour and explain why she does what she does !

I can quote Upanishads where various types of Yogas are described in detail .... but then this lady was perhaps born before those Upanishads were written ! So what is the use ? Bhains ke aage been bajaae baitha bhainsa paguraye ( Play flute in front of a buffalo ... buffalo keeps chewing the cud sitting in its position nonchalantly !).

OM

mohanty
15 February 2011, 03:40 AM
Actually I do think we need to play the been in front of the bhains. The bhains may never change, but the people she is misleading with her propaganda should get to hear the other side of the story.

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 04:18 AM
She does not deserve to be called Meera, she should change her name to Aisha or Maria. She mostly writes articles with an anti-Hindu agenda, for example this one: The perils of "Vedic Science." (http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Hinduism/2001/05/The-Perils-Of-Vedic-Science.aspx?p=3)

mohanty
15 February 2011, 04:26 AM
I wouldn't be possible if that is her real name actually. She has written articles against Hinduism on atheism websites (the editors of which, sadly are nincompoops who failed to see her agenda). Also, she is a Marxist who keeps comparing Hinduism to Abrahamic religions and coming to the conclusion that Hinduism is evil and the Abrahamic ones are children of peace and light. :)

She is more messed up than she knows. Or maybe she isn't and this is all deliberate.

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 04:35 AM
It's possible she is really called that, she is not the first anti-Hindu with a Hindu name.

Here is a response to Meera Nanda by Koenraad Elst:
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/politics/bogey.html

I have not read it yet, it's quite lengthy.

Another by Sandeep:
http://www.sandeepweb.com/2009/04/08/meera-nandas-proudly-struts-her-ignorance/

devotee
15 February 2011, 05:03 AM
Thanks for good links, Sahasranama ! :)

OM

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 05:26 AM
Oops, mohanty had already posted them I see.

mohanty
15 February 2011, 12:32 PM
No sweat Sahasranama ji :)

I found that blogger Sandeep has posted a rebuttal to Meera Nanda's ignorant article: http://www.sandeepweb.com/2011/02/15/meera-nandas-ignorance-revisited/

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 01:25 PM
Very nice, he also links to a great blog article there:
http://bharatendu.wordpress.com/2011/01/02/yoga-asana-the-hindu-legacy/

As the limb asana is under attack, so is the mention of Ishvara Pranidhana. Some Buddhists like Goenka and new agists are claiming Ishvara Pranidhana was unimportant to patanjali. They say it's just one of the niyamas and nothing more. This can be easily disproved by the fact that from all the yamas and niyamas, patanjali selects three for the kriya yoga sadhana (tapa, svadhyaya, ishvara pranidhana) and only one he says can lead to samadhi on its own merit which is Ishvara Pranidhana.

devotee
15 February 2011, 07:03 PM
Namaste Mohanty,


Actually I do think we need to play the been in front of the bhains. The bhains may never change, but the people she is misleading with her propaganda should get to hear the other side of the story.

Agreed ! But where is the Bhains ? Anyway, there may be some people who be interested to know the Truth :

1) First of all, the bhains should understand that Yoga has eight limbs & what she is talking about is only Yogaasanaas and PraaNaayaam which are needed to be physically and mentally ready for the real Yoga.

2) The Yogaasanaas and PraaNaayaams are not only mentioned in various Upanishads but a detail description is given on how to do it correctly. I will quote only a few here :

Jabaaldarshan Upanishad :

This Upanishad talks about 9 types of (Yoga)Aasans. These are :

a) Swastika Aasan
b) Gomukhaasan
c) Padmaasan
d) Veeraasan
e) Sinhaasan
f) Bhadraasan
g) Muktaasan
h) Mayur aasan
i) Sukhaasan

This same Upanishda talks of the ways to do PraaNaayaam. It tells us how to do Poorak, Kumbhak and Rechak which are the three basic things to know in PraaNaayaam. PraaNaayaam has been given very high importance in Saadhanaa and therefore it has been carefully explained in various Upanishads at many places.

YogachooRamaNi Upanishad :

This Upanishad explains these Mudras/bandhs/Aasans :

a) Mahaamudraa
b) Nabhomudraa
c) Uddayaan
d) Jalandhar bandh
e) Moola bandh
f) Paschimottan
g) Khechari
h) Baddha Padmaasan
i) Surya and Chandra PraaNaayaam

TrishikhabrahmaNaupanishad :

It explains :

a) Sawastika Aasan
b) Gomukhaasan
c) Veeraasan
d) Yogaasan
e) Padmaasan
f) Baddha Padmaasan
g) Kukkuta aasan
h) Uttaan Kurmaasan
i) Dhanuraasan
j) Sinhaasan
k) Bhadraasan
l) Muktaasan
m) Mayuraasan
n) Siddhaasan
o) Paschimottaanaasan
p) Sukhaasan
q) Naadi sodhan praaNyaam
r) PraaNaayaam and its benefits

I hope that the above should be sufficient to show that bhains is really a bhains and cannot be expected to know much ... but how can we stop her from bellowing ? Being ignorant is not a crime in itself but claiming to be expert & ridiculing others because one himself/herself is ignorant is certainly not pardonable. She deserves no respect from me.

OM

Sahasranama
15 February 2011, 07:14 PM
Thank you for the references, there are also 20 upanishads known as the yogopanishads.

अद्वयतारकोपनिषत्, योगकुण्डल्युपनिषत्, योगचूड़ामण्युपनिषत्, योगतत्त्वोपनिषत्, योगशिखोपनिषत्, दर्शनोपनिषत् त्रिशिखाब्राह्मणोपनिषत्, अमृतनादोपनिषत्, अमृतबिन्दुपनिषत्, क्षुरिकोपनिषत्, तेजोबिन्दुपनिषत्, ध्यानबिन्दूपनिषत्, पशुपतब्राह्मणोपनिषत्, ब्रह्मविद्योपनिषत्, महावाक्योपनिषत्, वाराहोपनिषत्, शाण्डिल्योपनिषत्, हंसोपनिषत्।

mohanty
15 February 2011, 10:24 PM
I hope that the above should be sufficient to show that bhains is really a bhains and cannot be expected to know much ... but how can we stop her from bellowing ? Being ignorant is not a crime in itself but claiming to be expert & ridiculing others because one himself/herself is ignorant is certainly not pardonable. She deserves no respect from me.

As I said, this is not for the Bhains. It's for the people who ONLY get to hear her bellowing. It's a noise game. We need to bellow too. :)

Sahasranama
16 February 2011, 05:23 AM
People like Meera Nanda and Deepak Chopra are trying to discredit Hinduism for the gift of yoga. Meera Nanda is an academian and Deepak Chopra is very popular "spiritual" teacher, he even appeared in the latest comedy movie "little fockers." If those influential people are trying to discredit Hinduism, we Hindus should not take it lightly. Only Hindus can defend themselves in this case, because no one else cares where yoga comes from. We (Hindus) are also the only people who have the knowledge to defend ourselves. Even the great friend of Hinduism and India, Dr. Koenraad Elst doesn't understand the nuances of Hindu philosophy which is evident after I read his dutch book "De donkere zijde van het Boeddhisme " (The dark side of Buddhism, not available in English). We need people like Vamadeva Shastri (David Frawley) who are both practicing Hindus and scholars of Hinduism.


||KrthaGHnasya na Nishkrutih||
There is no atonement for the ungrateful

Eastern Mind
16 February 2011, 08:15 AM
Vannakkam: Here's another attempt to help stop it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/7432959.cms?prtpage=1

Hopefully such full documentation will at least stop the foolish patenting of it. Unfortunately money talks.

Aum Namasivaya

mohanty
16 February 2011, 08:20 AM
Oh nice! And thanks for the link Mr. Mind.

ToI, for all it's alleged ****, does make some kind of an attention towards keeping India's claim on Indian things intact.

Adhvagat
16 February 2011, 09:16 AM
I guess westerners even invented the term right? It must be derived from Yogurt.

mohanty
16 February 2011, 09:35 AM
And the first ever Yogi was Yogi Bear of course.

Sahasranama
16 February 2011, 09:36 AM
I guess westerners even invented the term right? It must be derived from Yogurt.

Yes, they did. We can trace yoga back to the ancient tribe of grizzly bears.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bZeUd1B7Ylw/TT-8hyvyDXI/AAAAAAAAB1U/NA-JFFWDGmc/s1600/yogi-picnic-cartoon.jpg

Eastern Mind
16 February 2011, 09:37 AM
Vannakkam Pietro: .... Hmmm... Yoghurt Yoga .. a catchy phrase maybe ... or Toga Yoga?

Seriously though, I think it really helps if Hindus actually practice hatha yoga. I know very few who do. I do know the Ganesha temple in Queens NYC offers a weekly class (in the basement, or separate hall, not in the temple itself) (maybe more) and then the correct context is right there in front of your eyes. When we claim that Yoga belongs to Hinduism, and then are asked directly, "Do you practice it (meaning the popular 'yoga' of the west) and we say, "No" it tends to diminish the original statement.

I think the temples should all have programs, and include a short aarti or chanting before, after, throughout, etc.

I'm curious as to how many people on HDF do yoga asanas as part of daily routine? I have just started again after a 25 year hiatus. Mostly because I'm worried about my arthritis becoming more crippling as the wretched bag of bones ages.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
16 February 2011, 09:47 AM
I practice asanas regularly, not every day though.

I have a video of the Anusara yoga workshop "the grand gathering (http://www.anusara.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=249&Itemid=127)" I was pleasently surprised to see that they did kirtana chanting aum namah shivaya, shivaya namah aum and sita rama sita rama.

mohanty
16 February 2011, 09:52 AM
Yes, they did. We can trace yoga back to the ancient tribe of grizzly bears.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bZeUd1B7Ylw/TT-8hyvyDXI/AAAAAAAAB1U/NA-JFFWDGmc/s1600/yogi-picnic-cartoon.jpg


Unimpeachable evidence this. Meera Nanda should have included this in her article.

Ramakrishna
16 February 2011, 09:22 PM
Vannakkam Pietro: .... Hmmm... Yoghurt Yoga .. a catchy phrase maybe ... or Toga Yoga?

Seriously though, I think it really helps if Hindus actually practice hatha yoga. I know very few who do. I do know the Ganesha temple in Queens NYC offers a weekly class (in the basement, or separate hall, not in the temple itself) (maybe more) and then the correct context is right there in front of your eyes. When we claim that Yoga belongs to Hinduism, and then are asked directly, "Do you practice it (meaning the popular 'yoga' of the west) and we say, "No" it tends to diminish the original statement.

I think the temples should all have programs, and include a short aarti or chanting before, after, throughout, etc.

I'm curious as to how many people on HDF do yoga asanas as part of daily routine? I have just started again after a 25 year hiatus. Mostly because I'm worried about my arthritis becoming more crippling as the wretched bag of bones ages.

Aum Namasivaya

Namaste Eastern Mindji,

I agree, it doesn't help our cause if most Hindus themselves don't actually do hatha yoga. I do yoga asanas a few times a week, and I am trying to incorporate it into my daily routine.

Jai Sri Ram

mohanty
17 February 2011, 02:59 AM
Ok. Not to put too much emphasis on this, but here is something interesting.

Meera Nanda is a John Templeton Foundation Fellow in Religion and Science (2005-2007). She is the author of ‘Prophets Facing Backward: Postmodernism, Science and Hindu Nationalism’ (Rutgers University Press, 2004), ‘Postmodernism and Religious Fundamentalism: A Scientific Rebuttal to Hindu Science’ (Navayana, 2003) and ‘Breaking the Spell of Dharma and Other Essays’ (Three Essays, 2002). Source: http://www.threeessays.com/titles.php?id=4

Recently, she wrote against the atheist writer Sam Harris for advocating meditation and Buddhist and Hindu traditions: https://www.readability.com/articles/2la3ga5w/

And this: http://newhumanist.org.uk/973/spirited-away

Do read the comments too. It's good fun!

Someone told me the Templeton Foundation has Southern Baptist leanings, but I don't know for sure.

PARAM
21 February 2011, 08:33 AM
Yoga (yOg)is old Vadic product, even Bhagwan Krishna was a Yogi; during the time of Buddhism rise yoga was declined, and with the time of Pushyamitra Shung it was restarted with Pushyamitra's Purohit Pantjali.

TatTvamAsi
14 March 2011, 02:39 PM
Meera Nanda is the epitome of the so-called Hindu "Hindu-basher". She supports abrahamic viewpoints; that's enough to say what type of person she really is; scum.

mohanty
14 March 2011, 02:43 PM
Okay. The Meera Nanda vs Yoga debate continues. I have compiled a link-filled summary here on my blog.

http://www.vmohanty.com/2011/meera-nanda-vs-yoga-part-2/