Human evolution and Hinduism

[mohanty]

You will be hard-pressed to find a Hindu who is fervently opposed to the theory of evolution like many religious people in the west are. This is partly because in India, all knowledge is welcome and open enquiry is encouraged. It's a cultural quality.

But still, the idea of man having evolved from ape-men seems to be at odds with the Hindu puranic idea of multiple yugas, each lasting for millions of years. Modern science has a fair idea of the age of the Earth, but when it comes to human civilisation, it tells a story that began only a few thousand years ago.

I just want to throw a stick into this pond here and see the ripples it makes.

The Ramayana speaks of vanaras, ape-men who spoke to humans and even had a low level of meterial culture themselves. Could it be that the many "early-man" remains we have found were actually distinct species?

As it is, by yuga measurements, the events in the Ramayana are said to have happened about 14 million years ago. This was a time when, according tom modern science, there was no human civilisation anywhere.

I first started thinking seriously about this when I read about the city of Dwarka having been discovered off the coast of Gujarat. Some artifacts recovered from it date back tens of thousands of years back. If a city was at the peak of its culture at that time, when might it have been established?

All this seems to at least suggest an older origin to things.

I could be wrong though. :)

[smaranam]

Namaste

Its simple really, and you have said the right thing. It is not so much the body that evolves. The body dies, remember ? It is the soul that evolves. Or we can say that "token" that leaves the body, i.e. the kAraN sharIr or sUkshma sharIr. That keeps some kind of spiritual memory related to karmic debt. Hence, the kAraN sharIr (subtle body) takes on forms in accordance with the karma in the last body. Karma is also triggered by desire (icchA), so a being gets a suitable form and birth.

Where did you get this from , smaraNam, can you prove it ?
I simply got it from our SanAtan Dharma scriptures. According to our Hindu scriptures there are 84 crore species (or God's creature-specifications if you will).

What appeared to Darwin and other scientists as evolution is also a result of mega or mass karma that marches in step with the outer environment.

And yes, RAmAyaN took place in the 24th Treta yug not this past one - we are in the 28th kali yug. So 14-20 million years ago easily.

Jai Shri KRshNa ~

[smaranam]

Here is an HDF link to a discussion we already had

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=5437&highlight=karma+sharp+turn+dinosaur+born

[Adhvagat]

Smaranam... What I try to understand is when the Bhagavatam (scripture I read the most) is not relating to this Earth we currently live in.

Did Ramayana happen on this very Earth we walk on right now?

[Ramakrishna]

Did Ramayana happen on this very Earth we walk on right now?

Namaste Pietro,

You will get varying answers to that, but I think most Hindus would say yes. Take a look at this thread that I started several months back before we open that can of worms again :)

http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=5781

Jai Sri Ram

[Sahasranama]

There are still remains of Rama's bridge found by NASA:
http://www.liveindia.com/bridge/index.html

[smaranam]

Namaste Pietro

As everyone else here has mentioned, in Bhagvatam Shrila VyAsadev uses the word "Pruthvi" (earth), and it is all within the lifetime of this earth. Bhagvatam starts listing avatar history with the varAha avatar of this "kalpa". A kalpa begins after major "pralay" (destruction, Brahmadev's night) and the manvantara history (manu + antara) shows lineages of 'manushya' (decendants of manus) on this earth.

Jai Shri KRshNa

[Sahasranama]

Namaste Smaranam,

I have always thought that the story of Prahlada was in patala loka and not on prithvi, but in India there are remains of a large palace in Ahobilam where people say Narasimha incarnated. Do you know what the sciptures say about this?

[smaranam]

Namaste Sahasranama

Yes, i would like to visit Ahobilam someday. I have seen pictures of the temple and have read miracle experiences of bhaktas travelling there. Well, Shri NRsimhaDev recently showed His merciful elements. He does protect us.

I think we have to distinguish between pruthvi and bhu-lok. The lokas are at a subtler level and out of the realm of time-space whereas pruthvi is material earth. Also used for the elements (rocks and minerals, jad praKRti, heavu matter or the periodic table ?) that make earth as one of the tanmAtras (pruthvi-earth aap-water tej-fire/brilliance vayu-air AkAsh-space ).

I always thought of lokas as a state of being and entities in a loka share thought waves, understanding or communication. Like a radio frequency. The subtle bodies may be in a physical location too, and "travel across" or "tune in to" lokas like Narad Muni. It is like Shvetadweep - where is it on the galaxy map ? It's outside matter.

This is my understanding anyway, but please seek some authentic and authoritative source for this information.

Jai Shri KRshNa ~

[PARAM]

I think I had already mentioned about theory of evolution in big bang theory


Namaste Smaranam,

I have always thought that the story of Prahlada was in patala loka and not on prithvi, but in India there are remains of a large palace in Ahobilam where people say Narasimha incarnated. Do you know what the sciptures say about this?

I read Vishnu Puran during childhood, and according to it, the place of Prahlad was in Multan (Pakistan). Multan's mosque was an old Narsimha Temple.

Patal Lok in none other than American Continent, Swami Dayanand of Arya Samaj also mentioned it. You can check beautiful girls of Mexico are still called 'Ulopi', now remember Mahabharat, when Arjun went to Patal Lok, he married the Princess Ulopi there, who become mother of Arjun's son Babhruvahan.



Smaranam... What I try to understand is when the Bhagavatam (scripture I read the most) is not relating to this Earth we currently live in.

Did Ramayana happen on this very Earth we walk on right now?

Of course this is the same earth, and not any other place.

This is not the same Earth - This theory is made up by cleaver anti Hindus who also want to make sure that, even Hindu Hearts should make that the Babri Masjid is not made on Ram Janambhoomi and Ram Setu is not Dharmic or Historical

[Adhvagat]

I used the wrong example and completely forgot about the bridge (which I've already seen the photos) and forgot that the place was Sri Lanka. Which only shows how unfamiliar I am with the Ramayana.

Actually my doubt refers to other passages in the Bhagavatam, which describe worlds with features different than ours and specifically when it's about Narada going somewhere which can be in any place of creation technically.

Thank you all for clarifying this.

[smaranam]

Patal Lok in none other than American Continent, Swami Dayanand of Arya Samaj also mentioned it. You can check beautiful girls of Mexico are still called 'Ulopi', now remember Mahabharat, when Arjun went to Patal Lok, he married the Princess Ulopi there, who become mother of Arjun's son Babhruvahan.

Namaste

Interesting. I would still maintain that patal lok is a state of existence , and it is but natural for birds of a feather to flock together. So, perhaps the natives of South America were living amongst snakes - and- wilderness and "in patal". A snake is one reptile that exibits a venomous and revengeful attitude and hence connected to patal.

On another note, Yudhishthir, who was the world emperor after the rajasuya yadnya had Brazil as one of his provinces according to one author.



I read Vishnu Puran during childhood, and according to it, the place of Prahlad was in Multan (Pakistan). Multan's mosque was an old Narsimha Temple.

Does Vishnu puran actually mention that this happened in Multan (then called mULa-sthAn ? The history of Suraj Kund says this is the place. Then what about Ahobilam (based on NarsimhaDev's cry "Aho Bala" ) ?

However, this is interesting - see how many places claim NarsimhaDev appeared in their temple location:

http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Narasimha

Places of pilgrimage
The main places of pilgrimage associated with Narasimha are those places where the events described above (i.e. Prahlad NarsimhaDev story) are reputed (?) to have taken place. These are:
1. Ahobilam, Kurnool district, Andhra Pradesh
2. Antarvedi, Narsapur, Andhra Pradesh
3. Aagiripalli, Near Vijayawada, Andhra Pradesh
4. Chintalvadi
5. Devarayana Durga
6. Dharmapuri, Karimnagar, Andhra Pradesh
7. Ghatikachala (Known today as Sholingur, derived from Chola singa oor)
8. Hemachalam, (Mallooru), Warangal, Andhra Pradesh
9. Kadiri, Ananthapur District, Andhra Pradesh
10. Korukonda, Near Rajamundry, Andhra Pradesh
11. Mangalagiri, Near Vijayawada, Andhra Pradesh
12. Malakonda, Near Ongole, Andhra Pradesh
13. Mattapalli, Near Miryalaguda, Andhra Pradesh
14. Melkote
*****15. Multan, Pakistan
16. Namakkal
17. Narasimha Konda, Penusila, Nellore, Andhra Pradesh
18. Narsinghpur, Madhya Pradesh
19. Simhachalam, Visakhapatnam, Andhra Pradesh
20. Singarayakonda, Ongole, Andhra Pradesh
21. Savana Durga
22. Saligrama, Udupi Dist.
23. Yadagirigutta, Near Bhongir, Andhra Pradesh
24. Gudha, Rajasthan
25. Kole Narasimha Pur Islampur Dist, sangli Maharashtra
26. Parikkal, Tamil Nadu
27. Nira Narsingpur, Taluka-Indapur, District-Pune, Maharashtra
28. Pokharni, District-Parbhanit, Maharashtra.
29. Vedadri, Near Vijayawada, Andhra Pradesh
30. Vadapally, Near Miryalaguda, Nalgonda Distt, Andhra Pradesh
31. Vethapuram, Near Vijayawada, Andhra Pradesh
32. Sri Laxmi Narasimha Temple, 1420 Sadashiv Peth, Pune, India
33. Shri Laxmi Narashimha Mandir, At Po Ranjani, Tal-Ambegaon, Distri Pune,near Manchar
The first eight are located in the state of Andhra Pradesh in India. Namakkal, Ghatikachala and Chintalvadi are located in the state of Tamil Nadu and Devarayana Durga, Savana Durga, Melukote, Saligrama are in Karnataka.

Jai Shri KRshNa