interracial marriage

[eshwaar]

what does hinduism say about interracial marriages. i know as a culture it is frowned on. because our parents taught us that we must keep up our culture, which is what i believe. i have seen interracial marriage and it the kids who suffer the most cause the kids have no culture/reliegion to speak of. if that is the cause and were all ended up mixed up then my question is what would happen to all the religions of the world. people would soon to forget them. then there would be no religions cause by then no one would belive in god.

[Arjuni]

Namasté, eshwaar,

This thread - http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6138 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6138) - from the "Hot Topics" area of the forum may provide some ideas on the subject...

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

[TatTvamAsi]

what does hinduism say about interracial marriages. i know as a culture it is frowned on. because our parents taught us that we must keep up our culture, which is what i believe. i have seen interracial marriage and it the kids who suffer the most cause the kids have no culture/reliegion to speak of. if that is the cause and were all ended up mixed up then my question is what would happen to all the religions of the world. people would soon to forget them. then there would be no religions cause by then no one would belive in god.

If you take that one step further, this is why inter-caste marriage was also dissuaded. Too bad people don't see the validity in that.

Marriage, in and of itself, is a difficult thing I presume. There are so many factors that come into play; ego, emotions, background, upbringing, education, likes, dislikes etc. etc. If you add more unknown factors such as different caste, different race, different religion, the probability that the marriage will succeed is even smaller. This is simply a secular outlook on marriage. If you take religion into account, then the progress of the jIvA is fundamental, or rather, the only purpose, of birth. Marriage is supposed to help both spouses in that regard. Thus, interracial and inter-caste marriage should always be discouraged.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam eshwaar: There are many many factors that come into play besides race. Interests, economics, religion, sex drive, appearance, self-esteem, food, music, political alliances, family traditions and more. Which ones cause marital disharmony? I would say the answer is 'any of the above' with race in and of itself not being the highest on the list. I think its quite the jump to say that just because race is different, so is religion. In today's world we have every race practising every religion. I wouldn't advise interfaith marriages; in fact I've seen several not work. But using examples isn't any valid proof of anything.

I think a really strong religious Hindu of Indian descent would be wiser to bless a daughter's marriage to a white Hindu than an Indian Christian. This is mostly because race is superficial whereas religion is much deeper.

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Marriage, in and of itself, is a difficult thing I presume. ........
Thus, interracial and inter-caste marriage should always be discouraged.

There are many many factors that come into play besides race. Interests, economics, religion, sex drive, appearance, self-esteem, food, music, political alliances, family traditions and more. Which ones cause marital disharmony? ..........

I think a really strong religious Hindu of Indian descent would be wiser to bless a daughter's marriage to a white Hindu than an Indian Christian. This is mostly because race is superficial whereas religion is much deeper.

Both of you have made some very valid points. One thing that has not been touched upon is the environment of Indian kids in foreign lands. If the kids grow up in the suburbs with very few other Indians, what choice do they have but to marry someone of another race? In many ways we, the parents have failed. We came here, raised our kids, nourished them physically, but not much in terms of religion/spirituality. To top it off, we were unable to provide an environment where there were plenty of other 'Indian' kids to associate with. This led to many of them marrying people of different races.

We can disassociate ourselves from reality and make some sweeping statements like inter-racial, or inter-caste marriage should be discouraged. But, very often, we the parents, fail to provide any alternatives. In such cases, I agree with EM, that they are better off marrying a white Hindu than an Indian Xitian. Of course this point of view is applicable only to Hindu Indians living overseas. In India, where there is plenty of opportunity for interaction within one's own racial group, marriage would be smoother if the religious/social/economic/educational level of the two parties are almost identical. That is the essence of an 'arranged marriage' - finding maximum compatibility for ease of relationship between two individuals, and peace/harmony for the extended family.

[yajvan]

　
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


They say Love is blind. Yet when we say what is right and wrong we bring in the rational mind. There lies the pickle.
Trying to explain to the heart what is rational is a feat unto itself.

Then one must ask is it really love, or passion that brings a couple together ? Being new to love ( when young) it is an overwhelming
upliftment of spirit and mind. You think it will stay this way forever. Yet time steps in and one's metal is tested.

praṇām

[TatTvamAsi]

I think a really strong religious Hindu of Indian descent would be wiser to bless a daughter's marriage to a white Hindu than an Indian Christian.
Aum Namasivaya

EM,

That is a good point. I am sure though that there are more than enough Hindu/Indian males who are bachelors. ;)

[charitra]

Vannakkam eshwaar: There are many many factors that come into play besides race. Interests, economics, religion, sex drive, appearance, self-esteem, food, music, political alliances, family traditions and more. Which ones cause marital disharmony? I would say the answer is 'any of the above' with race in and of itself not being the highest on the list. I think its quite the jump to say that just because race is different, so is religion. In today's world we have every race practising every religion. I wouldn't advise interfaith marriages; in fact I've seen several not work. But using examples isn't any valid proof of anything.

I think a really strong religious Hindu of Indian descent would be wiser to bless a daughter's marriage to a white Hindu than an Indian Christian. This is mostly because race is superficial whereas religion is much deeper.

Aum Namasivaya
Agree EM ji,Namaste.
hope the caucasian hindus soon will reach the much needed critical mass. In the latter case why just marriages, ideally they must take over the hindu faith in the west and form a global coalition to help save the beleaguered religion from the ruthless abrahamist onslaught.shanti

[Eastern Mind]

Agree EM ji,Namaste.
hope the caucasian hindus soon will reach the much needed critical mass. In the latter case why just marriages, ideally they must take over the hindu faith in the west and form a global coalition to help save the beleaguered religion from the ruthless abrahamist onslaught.shanti

Vannakkam:

Unfortunately, from my experience, hard core western Hindus are quite few in number, as you say. Many lean to universalism or yoga only, and many retain Christian beliefs even though they pretend not to. True conversion is extremely difficult and takes a very long time. For many its just cool and a phase. Of course this is just my opinion. Often the real stuff comes out in casual conversation or in actions.

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Unfortunately, from my experience, hard core western Hindus are quite few in number....
-
Many lean to universalism or yoga only, and many retain Christian beliefs even though they pretend not to.....
-
For many its just cool and a phase..........
-
Often the real stuff comes out in casual conversation or in actions.

Something I have been harping about for a long time. Finally a validation.
Thanks EM!

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Believer: Don't get me wrong here. In the west, any sense of 'validity elsewhere' is welcomed so for Joe westerner universalism is a step up but for traditional Hindus its a step down.

Universalism, after all, is far more open than a dogmatic, 'we are the only way' you're all going to hell mindset of others. It is also a step up from the no religion at all group as that one doesn't require much inner thinking at all. So in that sense I commend them. Basically they're Hindus who haven't yet seen the reasons for discarding certain invalid thoughts, or found the personal disciplines required for tradition.

On a deeper intuitive level. I see universalism as a step in the right direction, perhaps lasting a lifetime or two, in the evolution of the soul towards some valid sampradaya within SD. But hey its just one man's thoughts here.

Aum Namasivaya

[saidevo]

namaste EM and others.



I think a really strong religious Hindu of Indian descent would be wiser to bless a daughter's marriage to a white Hindu than an Indian Christian. This is mostly because race is superficial whereas religion is much deeper.


Is it easy for an imigrant Indian Hindu to marry a native white Hindu in the US or Canada, since that would earn permanent citizenship for the Indian spouse? Do the laws have such provisions for the wedding license?

In India, I think, the Marraige Registrar's office requires a no objection letter from the embassy of the country and proof that the white person has not married earlier.

[Adhvagat]

I agree with you EM.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Saidevo: Good point. I was more thinking of an Indian Hindu here already, not from India. The government here in Canada (I don't know about US) does watch it and has a few regulations as false marriage is indeed used as a method of immigration, unfortunately. But this can be done regardless of race or religion of course. No truly religious person would ever do such an unscrupulous thing towards another person, but yes there are suckers born every minute.

Over on the travel forum Indiamike, people who start out with, "I'm an American girl marrying an Indian guy" usually get bombarded with a few warnings right away. There was an investigative journalism report recently on our national network about it. Mostly the naive and vulnerable victims got caught by it, but not just from India, but other countries as well, especially Eastern European.

Aum Namasivaya

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Saidevo et al: Here is the Canadian government's page on marriage fraud.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/protection/fraud/marriage.asp

In my opinion, although they may say the officers are well trained, in actuality they aren't. They're well trained on the idea of traditional western style love marriage, but not on the idea of arranged marriage. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps Satay knows more.

Aum Namasivaya

[Agnikan]

Inter-varna marriage is best, but varna transcends race.

[hesh86]

Namaste,

To say that I am appalled by what has been mentioned in this thread would be an understatement. It is amazing that even in the 21st c. these narrow-sighted views are being held. How twisted is the mind that criticizes abrahamic religions which do not frown upon admixture of castes/races. How have NRI parents failed, bhai? So what if a Hindu marries outside of caste and religion? Why is a white Hindu better than an Indian Christian? I didn't know this forum has surveyed the personality of each and every single white Hindu and Indian Christian to reach this conclusion.

Hari Om

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste,

To say that I am appalled by what has been mentioned in this thread would be an understatement. It is amazing that even in the 21st c. these narrow-sighted views are being held. How twisted is the mind that criticizes abrahamic religions which do not frown upon admixture of castes/races. How have NRI parents failed, bhai? So what if a Hindu marries outside of caste and religion? Why is a white Hindu better than an Indian Christian? I didn't know this forum has surveyed the personality of each and every single white Hindu and Indian Christian to reach this conclusion.

Shame on you all.

Hari Om

Vannakkam: The comments above yours were within the context of whether or not the marriage would be a lasting loving successful marriage, and at least in my case, based on personal observation, not some outdated chauvinistic attitude, as I believe you are suggesting. Of course you're welcome to hold differing opinions.

I wish there were stats somewhere on 'reasons given for divorce' . I will have a look around. Maybe that will support or disprove the 'conjecture'.



Editted to add link: http://www.religioustolerance.org/ifm_divo.htm Not necessarily relaible, but this site pointed to interfaith marriage as being 50% less likely to survive than same faith marriages.

Aum Namasivaya

[charitra]

Namaste,

Why is a white Hindu better than an Indian Christian?.

Hari Om
A white hindu doesnt sneer at my faith, an Indian Christian makes it her/his business to save my soul. On a sidenote an western christian is far better than an Indian christian. So therefore I encourage you to think favorably about your choice you stated sometime back, even if it means going against your parents wish. Imagine you marrying someone else in acooradance with their choice and selection and end up dumping your present friend, what would happen in future? You will start hating your parents. Instead you go ahead and marry the one you like, then in that case they may hate you (at least for sometime) but you dont. You still keep loving them. The latter scenario is more peaceful than the former, believe me. PS: A free advice is free as such can be trashed without a second look. Namaste.

[wundermonk]

Why is a white Hindu better than an Indian Christian?

This can be answered from two perspectives.

(1)For Hinduism: For the sake of Hinduism, it is obvious that a Hindu is better than a Xian. Numbers game, everyone seems to be playing it these days, so why shouldnt Hindus?

(2)For India: For the sake of India, it is also obvious that a Hindu (white or otherwise) is better than a Xian.

The Xian has no place to identify with in India. If anything, just like the Mohammedan, he only has a heritage of slaughter and bloodshed to look up to. From the apocryphal Acts of Thomas, to the Goan Inquisition, to the Jesuit destruction of temples in Goa and Pondicherry, to the destroyed temples at Somnath, Ayodhya, Kashi and Mathura, to the destroyed university of Nalanda, the Abrahamic identifies with invaders and barbarians who let flow a stream of blood along the length and breadth of India. This identity with the invaders makes the Indian Abrahamic an active member of the 5th column.

We Hindus in India are paying tax payer money for the Indian Xian to go on a pilgrimage to Bethlehem and for the Indian Mohammedan to go round and round the Kaaba come Hajj season.

Simple really.

[hesh86]

Namaste,

I think I need to clarify my views a little further. My intention is to bring out the opinion (it is my opinion and not known to me as fact, I admit) that compatibility among personalities have as much a role to play than dogmatic beliefs. Hence, Hindus might get married to Hindus, Muslims to Muslims etc., but I don't believe that religious compatibility should be given preference over personality, esp. when the person involved may have personality flaws that are completely masked or unknown. Handing over one's daughter to such a person irrespective of their faith would be very dangerous indeed.

Having said that, I do see the point of the argument being made by the older people in the forums in this thread. If parents feel that their should be same-religion/race/caste marriages to enable marital success and happiness of the family unit, then good. I can see why problems might start. As one person pointed out, this would be a problem if the two people involved are strong minded in their faith.

Yes, I agree that the success rates for inter-religious marriages are depressingly low, but the causality has to be known. For one, I think it is a confusion over how to raise children, how much society has an influence and how much we want our faith to be an influence on our lives.

I have always mentioned to my friends that faith is supposed to help our lives, not hinder it.

[hesh86]

Vannakkam: The comments above yours were within the context of whether or not the marriage would be a lasting loving successful marriage, and at least in my case, based on personal observation, not some outdated chauvinistic attitude, as I believe you are suggesting. Of course you're welcome to hold differing opinions.

I wish there were stats somewhere on 'reasons given for divorce' . I will have a look around. Maybe that will support or disprove the 'conjecture'.



Editted to add link: http://www.religioustolerance.org/ifm_divo.htm Not necessarily relaible, but this site pointed to interfaith marriage as being 50% less likely to survive than same faith marriages.

Aum Namasivaya

Namaste Eastern Mind,

I realize what you said - I did not mean to suggest that a chauvinistic approach was being taken by anyone. I was appalled however, by the sheer certainty that such relations would be headed for trouble, without considering the personalities of the people involved. My apologies.

Hari Om

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste Eastern Mind,

I realize what you said - I did not mean to suggest that a chauvinistic approach was being taken by anyone. I was appalled however, by the sheer certainty that such relations would be headed for trouble, without considering the personalities of the people involved. My apologies.

Hari Om

Vannakkam: I think the bottom line here is that we (I am perhaps assuming for others) wish everyone the best in any marriage, regardless of any statistics, or differences. To think otherwise would be like cursing someone, quite adharmic. I've only been to a couple of interfaith marriages, and although there were misgivings (Christian bride's parents wouldn't even attend) everyone who did go certainly wished the best for the young couple. That was about 5 years back, and I saw them again just last fall, and they seemed quite happy.

In my own marriage, my in-laws didn't want their daughter to marry me, (probably anyone other than a Prince from England) and didn't attend. It wasn't for religious reasons though. Somehow we managed to prove their doubts to be fruitless. :)

Best wishes.

Aum Namasivaya

[redifflal]

"Race" in the biological sense of genetic ancestral lineage is real. If individual X's ancestors took certain path of travel out of Africa (or within Africa for that matter) so many thousands of years ago, and then due to population isolation they developed physical and biological characteristics that made them slightly distinct from another group of humans that took another path, then these differences are real. They will manifest themselves at cellular DNA level of a person, like how different DNA people will digest the same food differently, how they may or may not have color-deficiency, hair-balding, body-hair, natural rhythm, etc.

On top of one's natural biological disposition, there is also the super-imposition of the larger culture (possibly built by the natural biological disposition of the larger group around us) upon us.

When people talk of "personality" being the greatest compatibility factor between two lovers, they actually mean the individuals' moral-value system, because this in essence will reflect how the individual carries him/herself in the relationship, in the household, in society, etc. So in essence they are talking about the individual's "religion" but avoiding the term due to sectarian connotations.