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yajvan
24 February 2011, 08:05 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

We have talked often here on finding a guru. I think there is a difference between finding a guru and finding the guru.

The dilemma as I see it is the following...
If we are looking for the guru while in ignorance one's vision is not clear. What seems to be the guru could be less then expected. It is like looking for a doctor. Some practice in a way this is perfect for your body and others do not. There are all kinds of doctors , no? Our illness is that of ignornace. How to pick the right doctor?


So, some say I will try and stay keen on who and how I evaluate a person as a guru. I will look for honesty, integrity, vision, knowledge. I will look for a realized being on this earth. These are all good things no doubt.

As I re-read śrī nisarga-datta maharāj's words on guru, I found them to be true. He says, the only way you can judge is by the change in yourself when you are in his/her company. If you feel more at peace and happy, if you understand yourself with more then usual clarity and depth it means you have found the right person.

I found this not to just be 80% true, but 110% true. Śrī nisarga-datta maharāj also says the inner guru (sadguru) assists and leads you to the physical guru.
Like a mother taking the child to a teacher.

Yet for this to occur do you think there is anything one can to to improve this to occur? And do you think only one guru is appropriate?

http://www.maharishiphotos.com/picsd7.jpg


praṇām

devotee
25 February 2011, 05:07 AM
Namaste Yajvan,

I read one statement in my childhood :

"It is not difficult to sacrifice my life for someone but it is difficult to find that someone who is worth sacrificing my life !"

That goes for Guru as well. There are some ingredients I would like to mention here :

a) A fake Guru is no Guru & so even if you have come into his/her influence, there is absolutely no problem in walking out of him/her as soon as you know of her reality

b) A True Guru is God himself in human form. A guru must be someone who has himself known the Self. A Guru must have been ordained by God to act as Guru.

c) People who teach us anything are also called Guru but they are actually Shiksha Gurus & we can have many Shiksha Gurus in our life.

d) The spiritual Guru is Diksha Guru & relationship with him is for eternity. It is a promise shared between the Guru and the disciple. It is a spiritual contract.

e) Maharishi Ramana advised that if you are in a hurry, you would find a Guru matching your own Spiritual progress. True Guru would appear when you are ready. Don't be in haste ... God knows when you are ready. Keep looking for one & when you feel spiritual lifting in his/her presence ... when your doubts melt in his words ... you feel that He/She is the one you were all along waiting for .... That is the Guru who will take you accross the ocean of Maya.

f) What are the signs of a True Guru ? :

a) Look into his/her eyes : They should exude love, innocense and peace.

b) Watch his posture : He must be at peace with his posture for long. Any restlessness observed is not good.

c) Habits : No lust for any worldly things but filled with love. Doesn't hate anyone. Doesn't speak ill of anyone. No eogism. Meets everyone with love & affection. Any undue attraction towards money, opposite sex, power, body comforts should be taken as warning signal.

d) No fear of losing anything, no fear of death etc.

These are quite a few according to my opinion. There may be more. Would like to hear from other members.

OM

saidevo
25 February 2011, 07:50 AM
namaste everyone.

I think if it is A guru, we need to find him. If it is THE guru, all we need is to be ready and wait, and the THE guru will find us.

I think members like Yajvan, EM, and possibly others who have their THE-guru, may add value to this thread by narrating how they attained their spiritual guru.

Eastern Mind
25 February 2011, 08:13 AM
Vannakkam Saidevo et al:

I never looked for a Guru at all. It was more just saying, "Oh that's somewhat interesting, maybe I'll go have a look." on a very casual level almost like going to a movie.

But once that casual look was returned ten fold, it was more, "Oh-oh, what have I gotten myself into?":) From that point onward there was no looking back.

Aum Namasivaya

anirvan
25 February 2011, 08:21 AM
writing something about the highest things, is like showing light of a glow worms to sun.

what i learnt till now is that finding a true(sat guru) is out of our domain. he express himself to those chosen by him/god. how can a human restricted by lower level of senses and intelligent can recognize supreme god,that is guru?

again sat guru is swayam jagatguru in human incranation. but we can recognize siddha,elevated sadhaka etc.
again they also behave differently.jnana siddha rae like child(balaka bat),tantrasiddha are like madman(unmata),yogasiddha are like dead(jada vatta)

anyone aware of great saints like Tailangaswamy,Bamakhepa must be aware that how extreme such great saints behave.

so how we should proceed?to follow our instinct,be honest to our sadhna,and pray at lord and learn as much we are getting from our sikhaguru/teacher.

if our goal is honest and sincere,Lord will guide and incase we are in the clutch of a dhongi,he will take us out of it to satguru.

GURUKRIPA HI KEBALAM

yajvan
25 February 2011, 08:29 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté devotee,




Namaste Yajvan,

I read one statement in my childhood :

"It is not difficult to sacrifice my life for someone but it is difficult to find that someone who is worth sacrificing my life !"

That goes for Guru as well.

Yes, I see what you say. Śrī nisarga-datta maharāj mentions when you meet somebody wholly admirable, love-worthy, sublime, your
love and admiration will give you the urge to act nobly.
It is acting nobly that lasts for a lifetime - even if the guru remains with you or not. This I have found sets you on the path.

Yet for some , finding the guru is not an easy assignment. Some take it to be shopping. When this occurs , treating this like a bank transaction,
then there is room for sorrow to arise. Yet let it be said to find a fully realized being is no small task.

As I see it there must be push-and-pull going on at the same time. The pull comes from the outside, drawing you nearer, the push is the
natural desire in you to explore and discover this exponent of Reality ( the guru).

So what does one do in the interim? The best one can. Just as the stars come out at night to light the sky the best they can, when the dawn arises,
they are no longer seen. Th brightness of the sun is there and washes out every speck of darkness. Like that, we work with those teachers that
may not be the sun, but still brings some brightness to us.

It seems to me this calling for the guru is also about desire. To have the desire that can only be fulfilled by the realization of the Supreme
is a noble one. My teacher has said the universe responds to one's desires.
Smaller self-centered desires can be filled by the individual, family, society. Yet what of the call for Reality itself? It is completely outside
of the sphere of family and friends. Then the Universe must arise to this request. It is then the push-and-pull begin to work in sequence.

But what of this push-and-pull? The push as I see it is anchored in faith. Riṣi sanatkumāra informs us though practice, faith(śraddha) is nurtured;
from śraddha , there is mati ( intention , resolution , determination ); the movement to Reality ( avyakta¹) occurs.

So where there mati, śraddha is developed and niṣṭhā (steadfast, firmness, or to make the resolve) unfolds ; the march to the Supreme
(avyakta) progresses.


praṇām

words

avyakta - not manifest , unapparent ; in the sāṃkhya school it is known as 'the unevolved -Evolver of all things'
niṣṭhā - firmness, excelling, to make the resolve ; niś - to meditate on

NayaSurya
25 February 2011, 10:32 AM
I am unmoved by my lack of a physical guru...knowing the wisdom of my isolation was either karma or a blessing.

I teeter between these as I sit and ponder my portion going backward and finding only good things have come from this place upon the hill. My family's safety from the one who would kill us...is always first upon this list.

The way inwhich we were moved was so profound...something divinely, swiftly done...I felt the very hand of Shiva upon our family...blowing everything up behind us...I cried in ignorance...as the entirety of our lives...even down to our most favorite places to shop and parks...our doctors became hundreds of miles away and unable to visit.

The job lost, and the new one found...and the home upon the hill in safety.

"When the time is right, the guru will appear..."

This is what they always say...and upon this hill...He will never physically appear (if He does...lol what a joyous silly thing that would be).

I believe this is why those helpers continue to give me words and help me along with the aid of the forum.

I woke up to the word SVARRROOOP! I was saying this word over and over again...and you know I could not tell you what that was....so for weeks I have been reading anything with this word.

These words which come are a lesson for me from whomever helps me, and it is up to me to follow it through.

The forum is a part of my Guru now....words I wake up saying will often be the topic of the day here....words I did not know...but I sure do now.

"When we force a guru by seeking one out we only get the sort that is the level we are."

Meaning that by forcing it...we may get someone lesser not a SatGuru, but one which is more at our level of understanding.

Here upon the forum it is a mixed bag of Guru, but each of you are just that....each one...the eyes of Beloved. I know this deeply in my heart.

I sat wondering...why does Beloved Isvara make beings here that have strong mental faculties which can unwind the Truth despite it being hidden in darkness?

This is a very complicated question, some are mentally ill here...I know this from my own family. They have karma so severe that they were born into a true form of hell....ignorant of being ignorant.

Yet, from this place of "Knowing I am ignorant." I do not feel more priviledge...but I do take the knowledge with such gratitude...and humility. I would not go to that lesser, more blissfull hell.

Not all of us are here to work out the deeper things, so a mind such as this is not required. I may not be a physicist...or the president of a great country. But, I was given a mind that can unravel...and then can extrapolate that information into portions of this great puzzle placed before me. A mind which has the ability, and awaits the teachers.

Another question I asked was...Why aren't all of us here with a list of Karma and lessons that we will work on?

Well, I now believe the answer lies in the fact that when given a list....other portions simply repeat back the things and say..."Yeah I get it...I was bad to my husband....I learned my lesson!"

But until one can feel the pain of being betrayed....it's only words upon your list.

Even today this answer is not lost upon me. We must not just parrot the words back...we have to put them into action...into our own movement.

Only then is the lesson fully learned and completed.

I am at a table....it was once filled with portions of learning...as a hungry child I burn through them, always asking for more.

If the Guru can not find me...I will not simply sit here without action, without attempting to learn. I know Beloved Shiva expects this of me...as I am a portion, a portion from the place which is known as the wide eyed believer....it's my purpose to shoot this play with these eyes full of wonder...I want to see it all.

I no longer pray to Beloved Brahma, Beloved Vishnu, and Beloved Shiva for a guru. In fact there is only one prayer upon my lips these days.

I say...Fill me with the Truth...fill me so well...so fulll....that Your Truth simply flows out the top and over the sides of this ignorant child, Beloved.

Each moment in this forum...that prayer becomes answered.

Hari Om Namah Shivaya

Thank you for such Beloved Portions.

yajvan
25 February 2011, 06:41 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

But what does the guru bring? Some would say tattvārtha (the truth). Yes, but it is more personal then that.
It is this truth on one's level of experience; it is the experience of Being (sattā).


For more on this notion, consider this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3377

praṇām

smaranam
26 February 2011, 10:00 AM
~~~~~

yajvan
26 February 2011, 12:28 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



But what does the guru bring? Some would say tattvārtha (the truth). Yes, but it is more personal then that. It is this truth on one's level of experience; it is the experience of Being (sattā).

But one must ask, why? Why do these beings ( guru's) go through the effort and angst to teach the ignorant (paśu) ? Surely there are other things they could pursue, no?



Śrī siddharameśvara maharāj , guru of śrī nisargadatta maharāj

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7e/Siddharamphoto.JPG/300px-Siddharamphoto.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Siddharamphoto.JPG)


praṇām

words

paśu - teathered animal; 5 kinds are enumerated: men , kine , horses , goats and sheep; sometimes mules are added to the list
pāśa, meaning bond, snare , trap , noose.

Eastern Mind
26 February 2011, 12:55 PM
Vannakkam Yajvan et al:

Good question. In most traditions, (as far as I know) a Guru cannot become one unless there is a need in a student. In other words, someone has to say in some way, (and there would be many) "Please teach me." Only then can a Guru begin. Once that crucial point is passed, is it not like a Mother haven given birth? Is it not her duty to raise the child? So too the Guru is bound to duty.

But at that point, there was a choice. The Guru could have said, "No. I did not come here to teach."

Of course this is just my version of things. I think different sects or sampradayas may vary. I really don't know.

Also, Some Gurus are told by their Gurus to go teach. Then it is obedience to one's Guru, another duty. Perhaps both of these elements are found in many Gurus.

Regardless of the reason, I for one, am glad we have such beings on the planet, active amongst the rest of us, not sitting in caves somewhere.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
26 February 2011, 02:30 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast


But one must ask, why? Why do these beings ( guru's) go through the effort and angst to teach the ignorant (paśu) ? Surely there are other things they could pursue, no?



I think EM gave some good insights on this idea.
The one that resinates with me is śrī siddharameśvara maharāj , guru of śrī nisargadatta maharāj says to him, you are myself.

For me that says the whole thing.

praṇām

NayaSurya
26 February 2011, 09:36 PM
you are myself.

And...We are ultimately He.

Smaranam, that was so beautiful...

anirvan
26 February 2011, 11:50 PM
first of all i would beg forgive from all learned,respected members for what i am going to say.

what was discussed above about Guru is actually insult to Paramguru. because Guru is not bound by any rules of universe,vedas,or even dharma as whatever he does is dharma.

Guru never teaches because he is being told so by his guru,nor by our request. Just like milk oozes spontaneously from the breast of a lactating mother when she see her baby,as the Btsalya bhava(the maternal emotion which induces a hormone called Oxytocin from pituitary which push breast muscle to secret milk)......similarly Guru"s heart becomes overfilled with mercy,love and empathy whenever he saw a person suffering from earthly pain and searching a path to go above.

SRIGURUDEV is embodiment of love,empathy...Karuna-ghana bigraha....thats why he was worshiped as DAKSHINAMURTY.......always in blessing posture....barabhayadata murthy.

Guru is the loving,merciful mask of brahman....

Adhvagat
27 February 2011, 12:56 AM
first of all i would beg forgive from all learned,respected members for what i am going to say.

what was discussed above about Guru is actually insult to Paramguru. because Guru is not bound by any rules of universe,vedas,or even dharma as whatever he does is dharma.

Guru never teaches because he is being told so by his guru,nor by our request. Just like milk oozes spontaneously from the breast of a lactating mother when she see her baby,as the Btsalya bhava(the maternal emotion which induces a hormone called Oxytocin from pituitary which push breast muscle to secret milk)......similarly Guru"s heart becomes overfilled with mercy,love and empathy whenever he saw a person suffering from earthly pain and searching a path to go above.

SRIGURUDEV is embodiment of love,empathy...Karuna-ghana bigraha....thats why he was worshiped as DAKSHINAMURTY.......always in blessing posture....barabhayadata murthy.

Guru is the loving,merciful mask of brahman....

Anirvan, nice opinion.

I'd kindly ask you to use a more normal font if you don't mind, a little hard to read this way.

satay
06 January 2012, 09:50 AM
namaste,


hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast

But one must ask, why? Why do these beings ( guru's) go through the effort and angst to teach the ignorant (paśu) ?


Compassion towards the pasu.

yajvan
11 August 2014, 10:15 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



We have talked often here on finding a guru. I think there is a difference between finding a guru and finding the guru.
As I re-read śrī nisargadatta maharāj's words on guru, I found them to be true. He says, the only way you can judge is by the change in yourself when you are in his/her company. If you feel more at peace and happy, if you understand yourself with more then usual clarity and depth it means you have found the right person.


I thought to add this to the conversation which was stimulated from a conversation going on now in another thread.

Ramaṅa mahaṛṣi said choose the one that offers/bring you peace.( this is no different then what śrī nisargadatta maharāj suggests). Yet he is also asked ' should we not consider his teachings (too) ?'
Ramaṅa mahaṛṣi responds and says, he who instructs an ardent seeker to do this or that is not a true master. The seeker is already afflicted by his activities and wants peace. If the teacher tells him to do something in addition to, or in place of his other activities, can that be of help to the seeker ? Activity is creation. Activity is the destruction of one's inherent happiness.

This wisdom takes some understanding. To the casual eye it is confusing. Yet when talked though, one should be able to get the core offer what ramaṅa mahaṛṣi is suggesting.
It is the notion of doing. Doing got us to this state, how can more doing, get us out of it ? It is like pouring gasoline on a fire. Even though it is ~like~ water ( a fluid ) it only exacerbate the flames. So, it comes to the skill of the master to teach in a way that one learns to do less and accomplish more ( my teacher's words).

What is the wisdom here ? To understand who you are and who you are not. You find out who you are by stillness, silence. Hence you are outside of activity - you are not doing more, you are not adding more fuel to the fire. This then becomes the skill of the teacher to turn down the flame step by step. This is the real master.

praṇām

1. consider this post, stuck in doing - http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=118808#post118808

ameyAtmA
12 August 2014, 12:44 AM
namaste and hello,

This is so true and important. It is the one who does not focus on your person, but just lets you be.
The one you can eternally hang out with.
The One in Whose association there is no pretence.

Also it is equally true that the Guru finds the seeker. The seeker only "stumbles across" the One becs S/He makes it so.
Namaste. _/\_