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Spiritualseeker
10 March 2011, 09:43 AM
Namaste,

I know that Shiva and Ganesha are connected with Bhang and other usage of the herb. Are there any other Gods that associate themselves with Bhang also?

PARAM
10 March 2011, 09:56 AM
Namaste,

I know that Shiva and Ganesha are connected with Bhang and other usage of the herb. Are there any other Gods that associate themselves with Bhang also?

Neither Shiva, nor Ganesha is connected with Bhang. However Shaiv devotees connect Shaivism with Bhang, while in truth they have milk, never bang.

Spiritualseeker
10 March 2011, 10:06 AM
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/churning-ocean-milk

PARAM
10 March 2011, 10:15 AM
Originally it was milk and not something wrong product, just like anti Hindus has translated sOmRaS into liquor for their own understanding.

Eastern Mind
10 March 2011, 10:15 AM
Vannakkam SS: Although there is no denying that is some sects of Saivism, especially within sahus, there is an association with hemp, it is by no means a generalisation. I don't know the facts, but I know many including myself who would prefer there was no association. Any real and lasting mystical a effect comes from prayer and meditation, not from herbal substances.

I believe, but could be wrong, that it is a minority practise. Certainly not something associated with any temples I know of. In fact, if a person came to our temple high, he'd be escorted off the property.

Aum Namasivaya

Ramakrishna
10 March 2011, 03:56 PM
Namaste SS,

I have actually been asked about this before by people. They see some program on television of Saiva sadhus smoking cannabis and think that represents all of Hinduism.

I agree with Eastern Mindji that this is a minority practice. I'm not sure what the scriptures say exactly about this. Of course soma is mentioned frequently, but we do not know for sure what exactly soma was. Certainly from a practical point of view the usage of cannabis for any "spiritual" purposes should be discouraged for the most part, and perhaps only undertaken under the guidance of a guru, if at all. I'm not even really sure why some sadhus smoke cannabis, but I really doubt it can be truly connected with any real spirituality in any way.

Jai Sri Ram

devotee
10 March 2011, 09:52 PM
Namaste SS,


I know that Shiva and Ganesha are connected with Bhang and other usage of the herb. Are there any other Gods that associate themselves with Bhang also?

Ganesha's worship doesn't include Bhang, as far as I know. Bhang is used for Lord Shiva and Lord Bhairava (chief of Lord Shiva's GaNas). It is believed that Shiva likes Bhaang, Gaanjaa etc. & therefore, offering these to Him propitiates Him.

Being very close to one of Lord Bhairava's devotee in my childhood, I found that the use of these substances is sanctioned by a qualified Guru to get the "final push" to attain oneness with the Lord. These substances reduce the ususal strong bondage to this body-mind entity & helps the saadhak to attain higher realm easily. The devotee I am talking about was very well known to me. He used to take it by the end of the Puja on special occasions (only once in a year) when he used to have the Bhaava of Lord Bhairava (it is popularly called as coming of Bhairava on the devotee). There was a sudden change of facial expression & easily visible physilogical effects when this happened .... and yes, during that time, whatever he spoke (including boons to some) used to come out to be True !

However, due to intoxicating nature of these substances, these substances are more abused than used for the intended purpose. As you very well know, "One man's food is another man's poison.". Indiscriminate use of any intoxicating substance without the guidance of an able Guru is strongly prohibited & must be discouraged. It can only lead to the inevitable downfall of the seeker than any real spiritual progress.

OM

sm78
10 March 2011, 11:17 PM
I believe, but could be wrong, that it is a minority practise. Certainly not something associated with any temples I know of. In fact, if a person came to our temple high, he'd be escorted off the property.
Aum Namasivaya

If you read autobiography of a sadhu by Rampuri, which I believe contains very authentic account of the naga sadhus by a naga, you will see these sadhus are inseparable from their pot.

Sarabhanga, one of the original members of this message board had a nice receipe on how to prepare bhang and offer to shiva and consume.

We will believe what we want to believe, but that doesn't change the fact. Intoxicants was and is an integral part of ascetic life, but should be avoided in householder life.

In the bengali book (quite quite old) "tantrabhilasir sadhusanga" - "accounts of holy company among sadhus by a tantra enthusiast" ... I saw an explanation why sadhus consume intoxicants - its not for the "final push" (which I think is an absurdity, as moksha is not a conditional destination which can be "reached" by human "push")...its main purpose is to endure a difficult life, harsh and often very lengthy & difficult rituals which only sadhus will attempt. Remaining awake all night by the fire for days under open sky and in easy prey of insects. Cannabis often helps to overcome this harshness and helps the aspirant to complete his necessary rituals and duties to shiva. Its a gift from shiva and a help from shiva, offered back to shiva. There might be other esoteric purposes which is beyond my understanding.

But the biggest purpose for me, is to shatter these non sense myths around intoxication. Krishna and Arjuna often drank wine in company of Draupadi - the present day krishna bhakt idots will shiver in their spine to imagine this, but it is in mahabharata. Tantras contain one of the most original and early classification of wines - classification of liquor and wine is not only a western discovery.

Those interested in non sense religious oppressive laws will always find some problem with all natural pastimes under the sun, they want to live a conditioned life by obsolete rules created by dead people they never knew, but spiritual people need to be more intelligent.

rkpande
10 March 2011, 11:59 PM
sage patanjali has something to say on herbs, if ganja could be classified as one:-
Yoga Sutra 4-1.
The mystic powers arise due to birth, HERBS(ausadhi),mantras,the performance of tapah and samadhi.
Is shiva not considered to be the first teacher of Yoga.

devotee
11 March 2011, 03:14 AM
- its not for the "final push" (which I think is an absurdity, as moksha is not a conditional destination which can be "reached" by human "push")

You have no idea ! :)

OM

Ganeshprasad
11 March 2011, 06:06 AM
Pranam Devotee ji


You have no idea ! :)

OM

I have no idea either, only thing i know is intoxication have pushed millions over the edge.

Jai Shree Krishna

Ganeshprasad
11 March 2011, 06:24 AM
Pranam




But the biggest purpose for me, is to shatter these non sense myths around intoxication. Krishna and Arjuna often drank wine in company of Draupadi - the present day krishna bhakt idots will shiver in their spine to imagine this, but it is in mahabharata. Tantras contain one of the most original and early classification of wines - classification of liquor and wine is not only a western discovery.

Perhaps you be kind enough to quote those passages, don't worry about this aspiring Bhakt, it would be foolish for this idiot to imitate what Krishna did.



Those interested in non sense religious oppressive laws will always find some problem with all natural pastimes under the sun, they want to live a conditioned life by obsolete rules created by dead people they never knew, but spiritual people need to be more intelligent.

What is so natural about dulling your senses?

How do you propose to be more intelligent, a trip to Local pub?

Jai Shree Krishna

sm78
11 March 2011, 06:37 AM
From sri harsha ji's (a traditional follower of sringeri sharada peetham and a sri vidya peethadhipati) blog...he talks about his own experience as well, should at least be worth more than inexperienced opinions in this thread (including mine).

http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/index.php?s=aushadhi&sentence=AND



Ayahuasca (http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/index.php?p=520&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1)

By Sri Kamakoti Mandali on Aug 3, 2009 | In Oriental/New Age (http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/index.php?cat=20), Yoga (http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/index.php?cat=21)
auShadha was one of the chief techniques of awakening kuNDalinI and opening various latent faculties within the human. Due to abuse, the science of auShadha as a means of attaining altered states of ecstasy has been slowly withdrawn from public domain. mantrAdarsha, a work dealing with maNi and auShadha mostly, speaks of a tale where bhagavatI umA curses the auShadha plants in the age of kali and turns them impotent. It seems rather strange that the author describes the various formulae in spite of this supposed curse. This gives me an impression that the tale was built into the work as a disclaimer. Sri Prabodha Chandra, a well-known Bengali writer and a good friend, spent several years in Ceylon and Bali researching on sanjIvani herb and this work is one of his priced discoveries. It was in fact he who mentioned that Svami Shivananda, the famous yogi of Rishikesh, had his first full-bloomed 'opening' through auShadha. Association with long term students of Paramahamsa Vishudhhananda Saraswati of Benares kept the torch of auShadha burning within our discussion group. Our first direct encounter with some sort of an auShadhi was during a ritual involving ayahuasca three years ago. Maureen, an Egyptologist who we first ran into at a vipassana retreat belongs to a long lineage of Siberian shamans and is a gifted healer. She requested us for an English translation of mantrAdarsha and this led to a lot of exchange of ideas. She opened doors to ayahuasca, after a eight month intense practice she undertook in Peru. While we had experimented with some auShadha before during a study with some trul khor practitioners, ayahuasca was nothing similar to anything ever experienced before. The best and the lasting effect of the ritual, as we perceived, was a complete opening of the Chong Mai or the central channel of prANa and an extremely heightened sense of awareness, something that would be impossible even after a six hour session of zazen. Months after the session, the breath seemed to descend naturally and repeatedly into the maNipUraka and the moment the mind was established on the breath, mUla and ODDiyAna bandhas seemed to occur spontaneously with no voluntary control. Ayahuasca is also the answer to those who doubt the theory of reincarnation as there hardly seems to be anything simpler than this to experience past lives. However, auShadha mArga always has its set of disclaimers. Those without sufficient preparation are warned before the ritual and are often prohibited from participation. The level of preparedness is ascertained by an oracle that involves a ritual named yinga. Michael Harner captures better the experience of an ayahuasca ritual.
“One of the most beautiful descriptions of a spiritual journey sparked by ayahuasca can be found in the words of Michael Harner. Harner underwent this experience in a natural setting during his 1960-61 stay among the Conibo Indians of the Peruvian Amazon. The anthropologist noted that after the ayahuasca ritual, he was exposed to a frightening of dragon-like reptiles that took him to the very sources of the original creation and introduced the knowledge that was reserved only for the dead or for those designated to die. He was sure that he was about to die. As Harner metaphorically put it, he felt like the condemnded Socrates taking the deadly hemlock amid his Athenian compatriots. Although terrifying, the experience was enlightening and even liberating because the anthropologist discovered the “way”. Despite all the trials and tribulations, this visionary journey ended happily and even pleasantly.
The next day, having awakened in a surprisingly fresh and peaceful mood, Harner rushed to his duffle bag, pulled out a tape recorder, and immediately began to narrate his experiences, making sure that nothing was left out. in fact, he felt some sort of fear for his own safety. The fear was understandable. After all, he was the only one he knew of that possessed the secret that the visionary creatures reserved for the dying. Thinking that this esoteric knowledge should be somehow shared with other people, Harner rushed to a nearby evangelist mission, where he detailed his spiritual encounters to two clerics. He then returned to the native village, where a more pleasant surprise was awaiting him. Soliciting an expert opinion from a blind shaman, Harner shared with him parts of his vision. Stunned by how much the anthropologist had learned during his very first journey, the indian assured his verdict, ‘you can be a master shaman’. Overall, the ayahuasca journey became for Harner a profound spiritual revelation that convinced him of the reality of spirit and triggered his conversion from an agnostic anthropologist to a practitioner of shamanism. Eventually, he left academia and established the Foundation for Shamanic studies (FSS).
By the 1970s, academic and metaphysical students of the Amazon psychedelics came to an agreement that despite the diversity of their cultural settings, people who take part in the ayahuasca ritual have essentially similar visionary experiences. It appeared to be another confirmation of what Eliade wrote in his classic work – Shamanism is a universal human experience that crosses cultural and religious borders. In other words, it does not matter if one is an Indian or a European, the imagery experienced during an ayahuasca journey essentially will have the same thematic lines.
Countercultural psychologist from Chile Claudio Naranjo conducted an experiment that tested the imagery that Native Americans and Chileans of European descent experienced after an ayahuasca ritual. He found that at least half of the imagery observed by people was identical. Urban elite Chileans reported that they turned into “balls of energy” and rapidly flew through the sky by becoming winged creatures. At the same time, like their Native American counterparts, they also saw reptiles such as snakes and dragons, and deep lakes and abysses.
The universal similarity of the ayahuasca imagery prompted the Swiss anthrolopopogy writer Jeremy Narby to come up with a provocative concept. in his Cosmic Serpent, he suggested that the repeated snake-like spiral imagery that both Amazonian shamans and Westerners usually experience is, in fact, the window to the sources of our genetic roots. Narby argued that the spiral reptile imagery of ayahuasca visions is nothing less than a distant replica of a human DNA spiral code. In this case, shamanism surely appears to be a deeply archaic phenomenon that takes us not only back to the dawn of human history but straight to the very source of creation.
In traditional settings, the Indians of the Amazon area believe that ayahuasca purges one’s body of unnecessary emotions and feelings. Second and most important, indigenous shamans drink the potion for diagnostic purposes. Spiritual practitioners take the potion, enter a trance in order to step into unseen realities, and receive relevant information from ascended beings on how to deal with a particular problem. In traditional Amazonian settings, women and prepubescent children seldom ingest the potion. They are only allowed to be present during the ayahuasca sessions and observe the miraculous effects.
For example, when Desana or Jivaro ayahuasquero shamans cure people, they are expected not only to discover the source of an ailment but also to extract the source of this ailment from the body of the patient. Since the ayahuasca can be both pleasant and terrifying, the Indians usually ingest the drink in the company of a shaman who can navigate the taker through a spiritual journey. The effect of the drink depends on many factors – the personality of the user, the atmosphere of the gathering, the properties of the plants and of course, the dose”.
As we sat today reading selected chapters from the garuDa purANa at a friend’s house, some imagery depicted there seemed to have a striking resemblance with some of the visions evoked by the ayahuasca ritual. The ancient seers, on the merit of their vijnAna, seemed to be able to look into the same states of the spirit beyond death that the Amazonian shamans gained insight into through the ayahuasca. Predominant presence of snakes and reptiles in most of the visions during the ayahuasca journey seems to confirm our experience that the potion directly affects the central channel of Chong Mai, in ways that can be only compared to several decades of dedicated kuNDalinI yoga. Death does not seem to be a stranger after a date with this mysterious plant. It should also be noted that ayahuasca is a banned substance in many countries.

Spiritualseeker
11 March 2011, 06:42 AM
Namaste,

Thank you everyone for the responses. Firstly I think Marijuana or Ganja has been demonized by the greatest deceiver in the world known as Uncle Sam the friend of Mara.


I have no idea either, only thing i know is intoxication have pushed millions over the edge.

....this is not a discussion of cocaine or something along those lines. This is a discussion on Ganja and worship of Shiva and or other Gods. Ganja compared to the other 'drugs' is just an injustice to Marijuana. This herb has been such a healing remedy for thousands of years all over the world. It has been used to relieve pain, glaucoma, sclerosis, suppressed diarrhea, helps reverse cancer, helps oxygenate the blood stream and help the heart, helps people stay stable and FUNCTIONAL in the here and NOW, and many other remedies. Some great thinkers enjoy marijuana and are not losers or drug attics. If one only research without listening to the reports that the US gov has acknowledge as being FALSIFIED (ofcourse no one is charged for this) then you will find that this isn't some opium, cocaine, heroine or crack drug.


Ganesha's worship doesn't include Bhang, as far as I know. Bhang is used for Lord Shiva and Lord Bhairava (chief of Lord Shiva's GaNas). It is believed that Shiva likes Bhaang, Gaanjaa etc. & therefore, offering these to Him propitiates Him.

You know better, but the reason I mentioned Ganesha is because I have seen paintings of his and sculptures that show him making Bhang.


However, due to intoxicating nature of these substances, these substances are more abused than used for the intended purpose

But what is the intoxicating nature? Yes for sure people may laugh, have an overwhelming feeling of well being and peace, all 5 senses heightened, and a feeling of being present. Its not like someone is going to take a few hits of ganja and start seeing dragons or go off and become losers of society.

I mean this in no disrespect, but I think if people study Marijuana as it truly is then they would not have a problem with some people associating its usage with ancient rites. After all the great affects of this herb makes me dare to say that this is a miracle herb that was gifted by the Gods or random selection has developed one of the MOST USEFUL plants ever.

Thank you SM78 I found your post very interesting.

OM

Spiritualseeker
11 March 2011, 06:47 AM
What is so natural about dulling your senses?

How do you propose to be more intelligent, a trip to Local pub?

Jai Shree Krishna

I cant speak for alcohol, but Marijuana helps brain cell growth (how interesting that its the EXTREME OPPOSITE of what we were told)

and as far as dulling the senses, marijuana heightens the senses. For example your hearing becomes very sharp, sight very sharp, feeling of body sensations are very sharp, and taste is intensified. This is the affect that I spoke about present moment awareness that many millions of pot smokers speak of. Also through use of Marijuana millions have been able to clearly feel chakras. I personally have been able to focus more on my third eye after just a few hits. I am still functional, i am not hallucinating as that is not the nature of this herb, but instead my senses are heightened. My wife also has been able to feel the chakras in her body more easily. So much for dulling the senses aye?

Ganeshprasad
11 March 2011, 07:41 AM
Pranam


I cant speak for alcohol, but Marijuana helps brain cell growth (how interesting that its the EXTREME OPPOSITE of what we were told)

That is what i spoke off, the alcohol, it was in response to SM.
on what basis do you say marijuana help brain cell growth?



and as far as dulling the senses, marijuana heightens the senses. For example your hearing becomes very sharp, sight very sharp, feeling of body sensations are very sharp, and taste is intensified. This is the affect that I spoke about present moment awareness that many millions of pot smokers speak of. Also through use of Marijuana millions have been able to clearly feel chakras. I personally have been able to focus more on my third eye after just a few hits. I am still functional, i am not hallucinating as that is not the nature of this herb, but instead my senses are heightened. My wife also has been able to feel the chakras in her body more easily. So much for dulling the senses aye?

Weather it is dulling the senses or making it Utejit (heightening) is counter productive, Shastra tell me to control the senses and not be slave to it, that is my experience also.

Jai Shree Krishna

Spiritualseeker
11 March 2011, 07:50 AM
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8155-marijuana-might-cause-new-cell-growth-in-the-brain.html (there are MANY MANY MANY studies on this)


Weather it is dulling the senses or making it Utejit (heightening) is counter productive, Shastra tell me to control the senses and not be slave to it, that is my experience also.

This depends on your views. You dont have to be a slave to your senses. It brings forth sati (mindfulness). Mindfulness is a path to enlightenment. Mindful of thoughts arising, mindful of emotions, mindful of emotional feelings in the body, mindful of touch, taste, hearing, and sight etc...

smaranam
11 March 2011, 08:06 AM
This herb has been such a healing remedy for thousands of years all over the world. It has been used to relieve pain, glaucoma, sclerosis, suppressed diarrhea, helps reverse cancer, helps oxygenate the blood stream and help the heart, helps people stay stable and FUNCTIONAL in the here and NOW, and many other remedies....

Namaste SpiritualSeeker,

Are you suffering from pain, glaucoma, sclerosis, ... ? Has the doctor prescribed this drug to you ?


But what is the intoxicating nature? Yes for sure people may laugh, have an overwhelming feeling of well being and peace, all 5 senses heightened, and a feeling of being present. Its not like someone is going to take a few hits of ganja and start seeing dragons or go off and become losers of society.
OM How can you be so sure ?

Behold the Supreme Intoxicant (Substance), a free prescription too ! And guess what, it is Shuddha SAttvic ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p35_PLOy7Hg

Mharo ri .... ~

praNAm

Eastern Mind
11 March 2011, 08:08 AM
Firstly I think Marijuana or Ganja has been demonized by the greatest deceiver in the world known as Uncle Sam the friend of Mara.



Vannakkam SS: This part I agree with for sure. Historically, it is based racially. The black man's drug (cannabis) nor the yellow man's drug (opium) were not going to replace the white man's drug (alcohol). Today the myth continues onward due to a ridiculously powerful alcohol lobby group.

Even the cultivation of industrial hemp (extremely low THC levels) is still banned, yet it could greatly reduce deforestation as a replacement for wood fibre.

All politics aside, I personally don't think it nor any other drug has spiritual benefit. Health benefit, as with many other drugs and herbs, and food, ... yes! I speak from personal experience on both marijuana and peyote on this. (Back in a wanton youth)

Arguments about its use by Saiva sadhus, I believe are quite geocentric or ethnocentric. I have never been to North India amongst swarms of sadhus, but I never smelled it once going past the few sadhus I did meet in a couple of trips to TN. So, as with many other debates within Hinduism, some arguers fail to take into account Hinduism outside their local area or upbringing. Its vast, most likely some do, and some don't. I don't know. We also have to consider the propensity of the western media to portray us in a bad light in whatever way they can.

Aum Namasivaya

Ganeshprasad
11 March 2011, 08:29 AM
Pranam


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8155-marijuana-might-cause-new-cell-growth-in-the-brain.html (there are MANY MANY MANY studies on this)

This article talk about might or could, which is a lot different from tall claim you made and i quote I cant speak for alcohol, but Marijuana helps brain cell growth (how interesting that its the EXTREME OPPOSITE of what we were told)unquote.


Jacobs says it could be that HU210 and THC do not have the same effect on cell growth. It could also be the case that cannabinoids behave differently in different rodent species - which leaves open the question of how they behave in humans.

Jai Shree Krishna

Spiritualseeker
11 March 2011, 08:31 AM
Namaste SpiritualSeeker,

Are you suffering from pain, glaucoma, sclerosis, ... ? Has the doctor prescribed this drug to you ?

Namaste,

I do not need permission from a doctor. The doctors here are Capitalist who care only for Capital at exploitation of others. So I could care less about going to them to get a prescription. I believe in freedom not control by the dictatorship of the ruling class i.e. the corporations. It has helped me with my pains and my wife who has been struggling with health is suddenly becoming healthier with taking this herb. This is proof enough for me.


How can you be so sure ?

Behold the Supreme Intoxicant (Substance), a free prescription too ! And guess what, it is Shuddha SAttvic ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBKJP...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBKJPBpzJrI&feature=related)

Mharo ri .... ~

praNAm

Because I use the herb weekly and I study it.

Spiritualseeker
11 March 2011, 08:47 AM
http://news.healingwell.com/index.php?p=news1&id=528519

it seems the fact that your astonished that this could be true makes me feel that perhaps its because you have absorbed the propaganda against it. I totally understand that. But we have to have an open mind. Especially when the biggest deceiving empire makes these claims so that they can make profits off of synthetic drugs.

Adhvagat
11 March 2011, 08:57 AM
Namaste,

Thank you everyone for the responses. Firstly I think Marijuana or Ganja has been demonized by the greatest deceiver in the world known as Uncle Sam the friend of Mara.

http://www.marijuanalibrary.org/images/it_aint_hay.jpg

http://www.marijuanalibrary.org/images/reefer_club.jpg

charitra
11 March 2011, 09:15 AM
Namaste all. The antioxidant properties of derivatives of grape juice are asserted in recent peer reviewed scientific publications. But then even dark chocolate yields same good health benefits, I must add. Pain relief is a side effect of these dangerous substances. Mind is deluded into believing truth as a lie or vice versa and that’s about it. However claiming of sharpening of intellect is a far cry, and if at all, these chemicals are known as DEPRESSANTS. They affect higher intellectual faculties negatively, not to mention the all too obvious- one getting sloppy with ones motor performance.
It is painful that some forum members are trying to promote andhakAra (read substance abuse) especially (mis?)quoting some mythological sources. Krishna, ‘’the human’’, was described as a PERFECT yogi, which automatically excludes him of needing any of ‘external’ agent for his inner solace or bliss !! PURE bhakti is ismply bhang enough!! Shanti.

Spiritualseeker
11 March 2011, 09:24 AM
namaste,

You are speaking of alcohol... Marijuana is not a depressant

You dont have to use it if you dont want to. but its too bad that these poor sadhus are so unenlightened and low lives and yet they cannot see the advice here on the forum so that they can practice true dharma (a lil sarcasm there :)

Ganeshprasad
11 March 2011, 09:26 AM
Pranam


http://news.healingwell.com/index.php?p=news1&id=528519

it seems the fact that your astonished that this could be true makes me feel that perhaps its because you have absorbed the propaganda against it. I totally understand that. But we have to have an open mind. Especially when the biggest deceiving empire makes these claims so that they can make profits off of synthetic drugs.

If it helps to alleviate health problem with control use i have no problem but when it comes to spiritual growth only shelter i have is my faith, chanting the holy names, for me there is no better antidotes to anxiety and pangs of material life.

Jai Shree Krishna

Spiritualseeker
11 March 2011, 09:32 AM
My friend I do not think anyone is advocating using it all the time you do spiritual practice. But I personally dont have a problem with someone who wants to do it recreational. I think if someone wants to do japa in the morning, meditate, get up eat cereal and in the afternoon smoke with a friend. I dont see a problem.

PARAM
11 March 2011, 10:09 AM
Sri Krishna never drink alcohol it is tamsik and Krishna prohibits it, anti Hindus have jumped so high, they have used Durga and Ganesha holding liquor bottles, that do not make sense.

Check different forms of Ganesh Ji
http://ganeshwallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/image004.jpg

Eastern Mind
11 March 2011, 01:38 PM
Vannakkam SS: I think I have a different definition of recreation that you.

Mine includes:

- walking in parks
- shared cooking with spouse
- riding a bike
- drives in the country
- going to temple for social purposes
- joining sports clubs, teams events
- bird watching
- mall walking
- sitting observing people in malls
- babysitting grandchildren
- shooting pool with son at his place
- yoga class
- gardening at home or temple
- making garlands
- reading info on line
- participating in HDF discussions
- watching good quality TV with family
- travelling on pilgrimage or other travelling

Aum Namasivaya

Believer
11 March 2011, 02:20 PM
If you read autobiography of a sadhu by Rampuri, which I believe contains very authentic account of the naga sadhus by a naga, you will see these sadhus are inseparable from their pot. Now I understand why Satay wants to live in a naga sadhu Ashram after retirement. ;)


Those interested in non sense religious oppressive laws will always find some problem with all natural pastimes under the sun, they want to live a conditioned life by obsolete rules created by dead people they never knew, but spiritual people need to be more intelligent.An interesting take on life by an "Analytical" mind. :)


I think I have a different definition of recreation that you.

Mine includes:


- watching good quality TV with family
Some wise old man defined TV as an open sewage line running through your living room. So, how could one watch 'good quality TV', and that too with the family? ;)
-
PS: This thread is heating up, I can see the smoke rising from someone's chillum. Wonder what they are smoking.:)

Adhvagat
11 March 2011, 03:49 PM
My friend I do not think anyone is advocating using it all the time you do spiritual practice. But I personally dont have a problem with someone who wants to do it recreational. I think if someone wants to do japa in the morning, meditate, get up eat cereal and in the afternoon smoke with a friend. I dont see a problem.

I agree with you on the demonization, but applying divinization is not really the right approach too.

Smoking is still a tamasic practice and I'm sure it doesn't contribute to attaining higher levels of conscience, just like drinking a beer with a friend doesn't contribute, it's just relaxation through sensorial pleasure.


An interesting take on life by an "Analytical" mind. :)

:Roll:


Some wise old man defined TV as an open sewage line running through your living room. So, how could one watch 'good quality TV', and that too with the family? ;)

I admit that TV on the whole is pretty bad, specially here in Brazil with soap-operas and crappy reality shows.

But there are some nice things, like History Channel documentaries. The Discovery Atlas India is pretty amazing too!


PS: This thread is heating up, I can see the smoke rising from someone's chillum. Wonder what they are smoking.:)

I guess people would get really high by just printing some threads of this forum and smoking them at once. :p

Eastern Mind
11 March 2011, 04:49 PM
Are you suffering from pain, glaucoma, sclerosis, ... ? Has the doctor prescribed this drug to you ?



Vannakkam Smaranam:

My brother does have a prescription for his MS. Its really too bad that there isn't more money put into the research of it so they could isolate the correct and beneficial chemicals, which I believe are many. Then my brother and others who benefit wouldn't have to put up with some of the side effects like coughing, as it could be taken orally.

Butt unfortunately, the pharmaceutical companies might get hold of it, and do what they've done to many other naturally occurring substances - alter it and charge based on what the consumer will pay, rather than on what it costs to make. See this study. http://www.pharmainfo.net/vijayaratna/drug-prices-international-comparison

But I find this whole thread is somewhat off topic, (This is a Hindu forum) as it isn't that much about Hinduism any more. I do agree that going to a temple or meditating can be just as great an invigorating high, without any side effects, although I've gone too far some days to be able to remember where my car is and things like that.

Aum Namasivaya

TheOne
11 March 2011, 04:52 PM
If some people are going to be a drug "puritan" then did you stop drinking caffeine, high sugar liquids, and many teas.

The fact is that Cannabis is a natural part of the world that has many health benifets. It's far superior to Alcoholic beverages, and still superior to coffee. When one thinks of cannabis, you usually think of the genetically modified plant that is smoked. The regular cannabis plant contains a lot less THC than the GMO. That's why cannabis was used in for thousands of years for its health benifets. Sure, I smoked cannabis, I never want to do that again because I don't feel it can give someone lasting spiritual insight. But I do believe that certain substances can be used to awaken one's chakras.

Believer
11 March 2011, 07:52 PM
Mind plays strange games. When we are looking for straws to hang on to, we start comparing cannabis to alcohol, drinking caffeine, high sugar liquids, and many teas. Why not also throw in cow dung as one of the items to compare it to for its appropriateness for spiritual development. I was hoping that one of the moderators would open a new forum section titled 'Cannabis/tobacco and hukkah/chillum' and move this 'inappropriate' thread over there. Oh well!

devotee
11 March 2011, 09:45 PM
Namaste GaneshPrasad ji,


I have no idea either, only thing i know is intoxication have pushed millions over the edge.


I fully agree with you and warn everyone here not to try this path unless he gets it through a really accomplished yogi. Any indiscriminate/unguided use of any drug is sure way to "hell" !

Mostly these drugs have been used in tantras & passed on from Guru to disciple with very little details available in writing ( as far as I know ). The saint I am talking about was a "siddha" and he got it from his Guru. He was not used to taking Gaanjaa but took only once in a year when he performed special worship of Bhairava on eighth day during Dussehra, he used to offer it first to Lord Bhairava and then take it ... and just after taking it he used to have the bhaava of Lord Bhairava.

Dear SS,

Please don't follow this path. There are better paths available towards God-realisation. There are many paths within Hinduism which are unsafe unless treaded under the able guidance of an able Guru. Why to tread a dangerous path when there are other options available in plenty. It is true that these herbs are used in medicines too ... but not in a quantity which can intoxicate you.

My dear friends, please steer clear of this way ... it can be really dangerous !

OM

TheOne
12 March 2011, 06:54 AM
I believe this video explains the greater concept of drugs and mystical experiences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qg__ffkDDY

Anoob
12 March 2011, 07:26 AM
I think Herbs (aushadi) doesnot mean intoxicants,it meant other ayurvedic herbs which are used for curing diseases and in case of somaras for awakening or clearing the path for the kundalini to shoot up in an advanced practisioner.

BryonMorrigan
12 March 2011, 09:48 AM
I personally have never smoked a single cigarette of any kind, nor do I drink alcohol or partake in any other similar substance...but I've always found the US government's opposition to marijuana to be completely absurd.

For one thing, I am much more worried about the effects of alcohol on people than marijuana.

On the other hand, when my father was dying in 2009, the only way that he could eat was to first take a pill called "Marinol," which was nothing but marijuana in pill form. Without it, he was too nauseated to eat, and he had withered away to about 100 lbs. (Note: The man was 5'11" tall!) Each Marinol pill cost around $20, and once his insurance ran out, the doctors wouldn't give him any more. My youngest brother, a pot-smoking Sufi (LOL!), started supplying him with the MUCH less expensive "street version," and at least he didn't have to suffer as much on his way out.

Now, I don't know about the "spiritual" effects of such a substance...as I never have taken the stuff...but it certainly has beneficial properties. It's only illegal because it's too easy to grow on your own...and therefore not pay any taxes on it. Bottom line.

Adhvagat
12 March 2011, 11:46 AM
I think prozac is more dangerous psychologically than cannabis.

http://www.amazon.com/Medication-Madness-Psychiatrist-Mood-Altering-Medications/dp/B0031MA8KG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299951989&sr=8-1

Eastern Mind
12 March 2011, 01:08 PM
Vannakkam: The whole issue of drugs/herbs/additives religion is so incredibly complex. I see a parallel between the oversimplification of it and the oversimplification of Hinduism. Any tendency to make sweeping generalisations should be looked at carefully. The anti - drug program DARE is an example, where some presenters (Police) oversimplify the issues into basically one statement, "All drugs (illegal drugs) are bad." Different people react differently to the same drug ... even the same person may react differently on separate occasions, that's how complicated it is. There are books classifying many many drugs. Its just vast. One just has to take a look at the shelves behind the pharmacist counter to see that.

From a Hindu perspective, I think we have to be careful, listen to the experts (although determining who is an expert is another issue) and apply whatever wisdom we can at all times, especially to our own actions or behaviours.

Aum Namasivaya

Ramakrishna
12 March 2011, 02:25 PM
Namaste all,

At this point I think it's undeniable that certain drugs, especially cannabis, can have medicinal values and used to treat certain ailments. As for the spiritual uses of it, I reiterate what Eastern Mindji has said. Some people may feel like cannabis can make them feel their chakras more clearly and have deeper meditations, while others may not feel that way at all. Different people may also call what they experience under cannabis different things. One person may say that they had a deep spiritual experience and insight when high, while another person may just call it some whacky hallucination. But certainly there is a risk involved, not to mention that it is illegal in most countries outside of medicinal use. Not sure about addiction, though. Of course some drugs can be extremely addictive, but cannabis is not that way from what I have read. I also agree with Bryon Morriganji, that I am more concerned with the effects of alcohol on people than marijuana. Tobacco as well, which has killed millions.

On another note, here is something from the HuffPost that I suppose is somewhat related to this thread:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/10/writing-on-drugs_n_833715.html#s251631&title=Strange_Case_of

Jai Sri Ram

Sahasranama
12 March 2011, 11:26 PM
SM talked a little about ayahauscha, this is another example how native traditions are being appropiated by Christian Churches.

sm78
15 March 2011, 11:10 AM
Pranam



Perhaps you be kind enough to quote those passages

I think it is in Udyog parva, will try to find the exact passage for you if I can manage it. I thought it was common knowledge.

You have drawn your own conclusions, but I should probably clarify, that this was just to point out instances when our die hard core beliefs are challanged in shastras themselves, and not to promote alchohol which is also criticised in the same mahabharata. If you ask me alchohol is useless and taken beyond a limit is greatly damaging.

The topic is not alchohol, but cannabis and other medicinal herbs whose use in the field of aushadha is well known and accepted. Bhang is an essential commodity in many pujas and kriya karmas, including I believe pitri-sraddha (not sure but on this one). Just because our present judeo-christian morality or surmons of new age gurus don't match up to this fact, doesn't mean we demonize something which has been quite accepted and respected in parts of our culture.

Ganeshprasad
15 March 2011, 11:36 AM
Pranam SM
Thank you for your clarification.



The topic is not alchohol, but cannabis and other medicinal herbs whose use in the field of aushadha is well known and accepted.

I agree, no one has any problem in this field




Bhang is an essential commodity in many pujas and kriya karmas, including I believe pitri-sraddha (not sure but on this one). Just because our present judeo-christian morality or surmons of new age gurus don't match up to this fact, doesn't mean we demonize something which has been quite accepted and respected in parts of our culture.

That may be so, not that i have any experience of Bhang to be associated with puja except only on MahaSivratri day this only as Parsad and never to get intoxicated by it.

Jai Shree Krishna

Water
16 April 2011, 06:51 PM
I wonder why the silly threads get the most attention.... :\

Let us look at alcohol, since that's easy. Alcohol (particularly from grapes and rice) have been show to be extremely beneficial. From their antioxidant payload to their ability to create vascular dilation and flexibility and even as a sleep aid.... there is no denying that alcohol can be beneficial to a person.

If we take the same viewpoint with different forms of alcohol like Whiskey or Vodka... the research simply does not scale. Most liquors are loaded with sugars and lack the antioxidants present in wines. This achieves the opposite: sleep is hindered, sugars saturate the bloodstream and reduce the vascular benefits.

So now we have the absolutely, absurdly, painfully obvious: Do not binge drink liquors as if you have no good sense. You probably should have a small glass of wine before bed for better health IF YOU CHOOSE.

Now let's approach cannabis. The "high" is attributed to a reduce absorption of oxygen to cells of the brain. Metabolism is slowed and pain is reduced.

Let's explore the oxygen factor. In many texts, ancient and new, it is stated that meditation can reach the point of a yogi ceasing to breath. Additionally, breathing techniques are shown to regulate levels of oxygen absorbed by the lungs (and by proxy, the rest of the body including the brain). There are many ancient texts, pictures and other resources that show ascetics using some form of smoked substance. There are even artifacts made from stone with Deva carved into them that appear to be developed to smoke from. It isn't a far stretch to assume it is marijuana. Many modern resources confirm this.

Now let's approach something somewhat less obvious. Is it possible that the reduced oxygen to the brain from controlled breathing can have a similar state of marijuana intoxication? Could marijuana attribute to a deeper meditation by increasing concentration and reducing oxygen levels?

There is also the subject of state-learning. That is, someone is more apt to concentrate, learn and recall when they are in a certain state. For a simplified example, the college student that attends all of their classes after only getting 4 hours of sleep may pass a test without issue if they only get 4 hours of sleep the night before. In the opposite, if they decide to get 8 hours of sleep before the test - they are unable to recall information.


Understanding moderation, it appears that both alcohol and marijuana may have possible uses when applied correctly. I would go as far as to say that you could remove the "may" from the previous sentence and apply actual science to find out both substances DO have beneficial practice.

That said, I am not a proponent to either substance and do not use either substance and do not identify either substance as a crutch for my own exploration of consciousness. But I cannot deny anyone who thinks otherwise because my own clouded mind has built an opinion that clouds my judgment so severely as to ignore any logical relationships.