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jasdir
22 March 2011, 03:10 AM
Away from all rites and ritules, or bookish knowledge, or the knowledge that you have gained from others, or your parents, or your religion etc... anywhere,

Honestly, Only just using your Heart,

What do you think what is bhakti (Devotion) ?

_/\_Jasdir.

TheOne
22 March 2011, 05:22 AM
True Bhakti is surrender to God BUT I disagree with you when you said "away from all rites and rituals, bookish knowledge, etc. etc."


The knowledge you gain FROM these books, parents, and rituals increases your bhakti 100x.

jasdir
22 March 2011, 06:11 AM
True Bhakti is surrender to God BUT I disagree with you when you said "away from all rites and rituals, bookish knowledge, etc. etc."


The knowledge you gain FROM these books, parents, and rituals increases your bhakti 100x.

Yes they do, am agreed.:)
But i want to know what a lonely heart says.

_/\_ Jasdir.

amith vikram
22 March 2011, 08:51 AM
it is the love towards god. and one more imp thing that i believe, loving the lord is possible only through god's grace.

jaswant
22 March 2011, 09:08 AM
it is the love towards god. and one more imp thing that i believe, loving the lord is possible only through god's grace.

Namaste !

"loving the lord is possible only through god's grace"---- am i getting this right ?.... if the Lord does not want me to love him - i cannot love him ?-- what about my minute independece... i want to love him even if he does not want me to love him ... can he stop me ?

.... this sound terrible -- but i hope u understand what i am trying to say

.....

j

jasdir
22 March 2011, 09:34 AM
Namaste !

"loving the lord is possible only through god's grace"---- am i getting this right ?.... if the Lord does not want me to love him - i cannot love him ?-- what about my minute independece... i want to love him even if he does not want me to love him ... can he stop me ?

.... this sound terrible -- but i hope u understand what i am trying to say

.....

j

I have also heard, " Pyaar kiya nahin jata ho jata hai "

English: " Love is not the thing to do, it just appears "

_/\_Jasdir

amith vikram
22 March 2011, 10:58 AM
Namaste !

"loving the lord is possible only through god's grace"---- am i getting this right ?.... if the Lord does not want me to love him - i cannot love him ?-- what about my minute independece... i want to love him even if he does not want me to love him ... can he stop me ?

.... this sound terrible -- but i hope u understand what i am trying to say

.....

j
Namaste,
The thing what i was trying to say was, an opportunity to read the leelas and the heart to feel it was blessed by the lord. I can't claim that i am a bhakta, but i feel he has given me such a privilege that i can revel in his thoughts.
Let me quote an instance here: In the Bhagavad Geeta, Vishvaroopa darshana chapter, bhagavan says- look arjuna these enemies are already killed by me. Weather you fight or not, they will die for sure. You are only a nimitta. So fight!
And also he says-the person who is blinded by ignorance claims that he has done this he has done that.

So it is wise to admit that it is only by the grace of god that we are able to enjoy his company.

amith vikram
22 March 2011, 11:10 AM
I have also heard, " Pyaar kiya nahin jata ho jata hai "

English: " Love is not the thing to do, it just appears "

_/\_Jasdir

That i think, is god's will. What do you think?

sunyata07
22 March 2011, 02:07 PM
Namaste,

I have always thought I understood the exact meaning of bhakti, but I have realised that over time, my understanding of it has changed slowly, almost imperceptibly. I cannot tell you exactly what I had once thought of it, but my current stance on it is somewhat different to what it once was. I thought once it was merely love for God, but I see now that bhakti is much more than that. In its simplest form it is, as the other members have pointed out, complete and total surrender to God. And I absolutely do agree that knowledge of His names, forms, ritual worship can aid in cultivating the right frame of mind for bhakti yoga. They say that of all the yoga paths, bhakti yoga is the simplest because it is readily accessible to all peoples, whatever their karmic state, whatever their station, gender, etc.



I have also heard, " Pyaar kiya nahin jata ho jata hai "

English: " Love is not the thing to do, it just appears "

_/\_Jasdir


I agree with this. True love, which is the basis of our true nature, is something that arises within each of us naturally. One cannot "concentrate" on giving love, it is the effortless effort, unconditional, infinite and without limit. The only potential threat to this pure, divine love is the ego, which places itself above all else. This needs to be eroded in order to feel the full impact of bhakti for God.




That i think, is god's will. What do you think?


Agreed, but then again, isn't everything God's will? Does this mean then, that true bhakti actually arises from God, rather than the devotee?

Om namah Shivaya

amith vikram
22 March 2011, 10:27 PM
Namaste,


. The only potential threat to this pure, divine love is the ego, which places itself above all else. This needs to be eroded in order to feel the full impact of bhakti for God.



Om namah Shivaya

Namaste,
you have answered your own question. Yes, i agree one would normally think that, he or she chose to be a bhakta and continued the bhakti. But in the long run however, one would realize that it was because of the lord's compassion that we were able to connect with him. The thing what i want to say here is, if you look back at your life and assess everything that you have done, not even a single time can u claim-i achieved this; It was only a chance,it all just happened.

saral
23 March 2011, 01:01 AM
Namste all,

Like you all said only God decides who can do Bbhaki or who can’t? I just wanted to Know

If I am not doing Bhakti then what I am doing here?
Why God didn’t allow me Bhakti?
Where the word NASTIK came from?
What are the criteria or you can say qualification to become a Bhakat according to VED or GOD?
I am just curious about this because for a long time I am keep fighting with my self to know whether I am able to do Bhakti or not. If, not then why? And if yes then why I am not feeling it from inside and always doubting on the ways which can lead me towards Gods i.e. Jap, Tap, Niyam, Rituals, Guru, sects etc. your answer helps me a lot.


Saadar
Saral

anirvan
23 March 2011, 01:37 AM
I will honestly speak what i have experienced in my life so far.

Bhakti is a natural state of atman and hence with us. Neither it can be gained nor conditioned. just like carnal desire is inate to us,bhakti is inate to us but two are opposite side of same coin. same energy drives us in either way.the practice and conditioning is important to give it the right direction.

only the mental engagement with worldly stuffs, indulgence in sensual pleasure hide this pure bhakti within us.

Practice of different legs of bhakti bring our natural devotion to Fore. and how is this bhakti is like. it gives us very nice feeling,always wants to engage ourself in relation to beloved. hearing,talking,seeing only about the beloved.

one can remember when we had that teenage love feelings :) but it is more of transient as it is Moha .bhakti its something like that,but more intense,more secure and without any tension of loosing that love.

but yes, initially we need that conditioning for bhakti,as it is required in any worldly indulgence.once that conditioning is stabilised,one can feel that this bhakti was natural is their eternally and his existence is for this bhakti only.

then the course of bhakti will change depnding upon our constant purification from pld preconditioned samskar, and most important is to ward off the obstacles of bhakti.( Seva aparadh,baishnav aparadh,etc).

these are my practical experience in my heart.and i feel it is right to give theoretical support here.

since atman"s real swaroop is SAT-CHIT-ANAND, Anand is nothing but Hladini shakti who when takes form is Radha.and hence we are by swaroop Radha only.the natural lover of Srikrishna.

jayaguru

jasdir
23 March 2011, 02:14 AM
That i think, is god's will. What do you think?
Amith, God itself is love, God has no will.
If God would have will, than it means, "He" is also disturbed by something or somebody.

But "He" or love is preasent in all of us with a decided time -- That when it will appear.

For example: Once a person asked one Faquir (spiritual master) passing nearby from his home,

What is the way to realize "God" or love ?

Faquir answered: The only way to realize "God", Simply just fall in "Love" with "God", and by saying this the faquir gone away.

After five years when that faquir was again passing from that way, again that person stoped him and asked please! tell me the way how to fall in Love with "God" i diden't understood,

Faquir answered: As five years you was FINDING the way how to fall in love with "God", This FINDING itself is called "Love". :)

_/\_Jasdir.

jaswant
23 March 2011, 06:00 AM
NAMASTE ALL !
NICE DISCUSSION !

" Does this mean then, that true bhakti actually arises from God, OR rather than the devotee? ".

Sunyata07... this is precisely what i wanted to ask - u hit the nail on the head..

If every thing is done by God than he is a "dictator" and we have no free will -we are just puppets.... i feel that we have to have some say in what happens even if its just minute....

Jasdir...Sorry but i disagree -- i do not think if god has a will he is lacking something or disturbed.... he says in the Gita that if one offers him something with love he will accept.... if not he will not accept -- thats his will....putna is a case where he shows his will that is contrary to natural sentiments --- she wanted to kill him but he bestowed on her the highes benediction of sending her to vaikunt... thats his will !

the example of the gita -- vishwaroop - he says that he has already killed all the worriors... but arjun could be the instrument to do so... but if he he chooses not to than it does not mean that those worriors will not be killed... they would be killed some other way..... another example is karan - he refused to to be allied with the padavas even though asked by krishna.... so there has to be some will in all of us...

are we amicable to god or not.... this choice belongs to each individual... and not to GOD.... if it belongs to God... than what i say "he is a dictator" stands correct.


plse excuse my phrasing ect ect... i hope all get the gist of what iam trying to say

yours
_/\_
j

jasdir
23 March 2011, 08:07 AM
Jasdir...Sorry but i disagree -- i do not think if god has a will he is lacking something or disturbed.... he says in the Gita

Jaswant ji, As per the OP, Simply just guess what your heart says.

Jaswant ji, Yes, may be some other times, But for this time -- Please !.., No books or holy-books. :)

Very nice to meet you..

_/\_ Jasdir.

amith vikram
23 March 2011, 08:54 AM
Namaste,

@ Saral
there is no qualification required my friend, just love the lord like you love yourself!
if you want to know what god thinks about you,then please read gita. The gist of the gita is this-i am a friend of all beings and i live in the hearts of all animals. I am the one everyone are searching for.

@ jasdir
I totally agree with you!
And i also believe that this whole universe including our own self is pervaded by the blissful god. Since everything happens 'inside god', it is like an if function. If{man gives} then{man gets}. It's all predefined. that we call it as god's will.

@ jaswant
This is the topic of individuality. It is not wrong what you are saying and it is completely natural.
See neither our birth nor death is in our control, but you think things are in our control in this period between birth and death?

Bhakti arises only when there is a devotee. When a devotee realizes that he/she finds peace in bhakti alone, then the devotee will try to concentrate on god and spends more time engaging in dhyana. Since this bhakti is of the type of surrendering, a true bhakta, in the end will totally surrender to the lord losing the individuality and thus becoming free. It all depends on the amount of depth a bhakta can go in god's bhakti(surrender!).
Anyhow this is only my opinion.

jaswant
23 March 2011, 09:41 AM
NAMASTE ALL

Ok i will try not to quote any books and try to express my heartfelt thoughts... though difficult... its always nice to hide behind some holy book or something or some one--- even some intellect /budhi..(which i lack a lot :) !)

my take is that there is a relationship with god and the individual... whether one knows that or not... like one who know his parents or not.

i do not know what the exact definition of bhakti is - but i take it to be a loving relationship with god... what that relationship is ... thats quite wide in hinduism... in the abrahamic religions .. its mostly reverance... with me it can be anything favarable or even unfavarable to god... maybe not the latter...


i think the bottom line is just to do something like lighting a lamp offering something simple and not expecting nothing in return-- not barganing with god-- just to give something not in thanks but out of your own free will... because you can ...and you want to ... not out of any duty or obligations


i don't know if this make sense


j

jasdir
24 March 2011, 06:11 AM
i also believe that this whole universe including our own self is pervaded by the blissful god. Since everything happens 'inside god', it is like an if function. If{man gives} then{man gets}. It's all predefined. that we call it as god's will.

:cool1: So, Amith i think, you are in love, Congrats...:D

_/\_Jasdir.

sunyata07
24 March 2011, 02:30 PM
Namaste Jaswant,

There is most definitely a personal element involved in bhakti - no, which is crucial in order for it to flourish. Some may see this, as you have mentioned, in a reverent light, where the Lord is to be worshipped, appeased and shown the greatest respect. This is certainly true of most Abrahamic religions, where God is seen as a king figure, to be adored and before whom one must bow low.

In Sanatana Dharma, the devotee is given greater reign to express his relationship with God. Here, God can be a fatherly, kingly figure as He is seen in the West, or He can be a Mother, approached with the tender, innocent love of a child for his parent who nourishes and provides for him. Or God can be a guiding friend and guru, where the devotee feels great love, loyalty and gratitude for being shown the way to Truth. God can even be a lover, and I certainly think the idea of falling in love with God is a good analogy for the growing power of one's bhakti: beautiful, blissful, full of a joy that feels everlasting. How many are the relationships a devotee can have with God!



Why God didn’t allow me Bhakti?


God does not prevent you from loving Him! No one is excluded from bhakti. There are only those who are deluded into thinking they are excluded by their own actions. Try to see it as a child who has been playing by himself and who has slowly wandered away from his father/mother. The child may become so engrossed in his play that he forgets momentarily about his parents. He may look around in a moment of confusion and think "my parents have abandoned me!" but if you were to stop and take a closer look around, you would see that this is not so. They are just waiting for you to finish playing in the sandbox. When you're ready to leave, they will take you back into their loving arms. As Amith said before, there are no qualifications for loving God. Just open your heart to Him and love Him with all your being and He will, without fail, come to you (B.G. 18:65):

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māḿ namaskuru
mām evaiṣyasi satyaḿ te
pratijāne priyo 'si me

"Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Thus you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend."

Om namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
24 March 2011, 06:12 PM
Vannakkam: Bhakti is an essential step on the path to self-realisation. Many of us can't sit still for 5 seconds, let alone 20 days or years in a cave to go in and realise our identity with Brahman, the ultimate Vedanta. So we need bhakti:
- doing japa
- home puja
- pilgrimage
- temples
- making garlands
- making clothing for deities
- preparing prasadam
- sitting in quiet reflection of the almighty
- walking with only god in mind

What does it do? it prepares us (by softening the intellect, ridding us of bigotry and ignorance) for the time when we are ready to take it inward. Even the greatest of saints and teachers still practised bhakti.

Aum Namasivaya

jasdir
25 March 2011, 12:59 AM
Vannakkam: Bhakti is an essential step on the path to self-realisation. Many of us can't sit still for 5 seconds, let alone 20 days or years in a cave to go in and realise our identity with Brahman, the ultimate Vedanta. So we need bhakti
Eastren mind, Than what about "Bhagat-Pharlad" s/o king "Harnakash", he was self realised in very small age, he never escaped in caves for doing bhakti,

What about "Meera bhai" through out her life she was a house-wife, than how she reaslised "God" ? tell me..

8th Guru of sikhs "Guru Harkrishan" was god realised at the age of thirteen, how he did...?

Eastren mind, I think we all are in wrong bhakties, we all are the bhakts (Devotees) of maya (money), not god.

_/\_Jasdir.

Adhvagat
25 March 2011, 02:43 AM
Jasdir, I'm not sure I follow you. Don't you believe in the principle of reincarnation? I'm sure people who are self-realized at early age and/or without much apparent effort are collecting the fruits of past activities.

saral
25 March 2011, 02:45 AM
Eastren mind, Than what about "Bhagat-Pharlad" s/o king "Harnakash", he was self realised in very small age, he never escaped in caves for doing bhakti,

What about "Meera bhai" through out her life she was a house-wife, than how she reaslised "God" ? tell me..

8th Guru of sikhs "Guru Harkrishan" was god realised at the age of thirteen, how he did...?

Eastren mind, I think we all are in wrong bhakties, we all are the bhakts (Devotees) of maya (money), not god.

_/\_Jasdir.



Namste Jasdir ji,

May be this is due to their PUNYA which they gain in their previous life by doing the Bhakti in the same manner like Eastern Mind ji described. Because we believe in Hinduism then we have to believe in rebirth theory.
Now my question is can you discribe your question without refrreing any scripture? but please this time answer should not be a question. I really want to gain something from you

Sadar

Saral

jaswant
25 March 2011, 02:49 AM
Namaste all !

Thanks for the nice replies !


I think we all are in wrong bhakties, we all are the bhakts (Devotees) of maya (money), not god.

I AGREE 1008% WITH THIS !!...

Why is it so hard for someone to follow bhakti and for other its just their nature ?

I think its their different levels of evolment in each person... some are very advance and naturally take on to religion.. others are bewildered and just become averse to god and religion....But they will hopefully see the right path if they are exposed to it or by chance they are some how or the other exposed to it or something like that... THAT I BELIVE IS GOD'S WILL.

I have a friend who is atheist... but what a nice person... no dulpcity always helping ect ect all nice qulities -- but will not touch any religion with a 10 foot pole !... he is just illusioned.. or maybe i am illusioned !.. he says religion just devides man and causes more disharmony than anything else ! ... looking into history he has a valid point !...

j

Adhvagat
25 March 2011, 02:57 AM
Jaswant, I think religion causes disharmony when people try to enforce it OUTSIDE. Religion is meant for our interior existence.

Don't you think? :)

jaswant
25 March 2011, 03:02 AM
Jaswant, I think religion causes disharmonay when people try to enforce it OUTSIDE. Religion is meant for our interior existence.

Don't you think? :)


No Doubt about it !! ... but man is man & not perfect .. and uses religion for his own purpose !!... look at BHAKTI we do it so we may get something for our own personal desire...

j

Eastern Mind
25 March 2011, 07:48 AM
look at BHAKTI we do it so we may get something for our own personal desire...



Vannakkam jaswant: Although this may be true with people in reality, it is not the intention of true bhakti. True bhakti is love for love's sake, not expecting anything in return ... not even the punya, which will come on its own. One step towards God, and God takes nine to you.

Aum Namasivaya

jasdir
26 March 2011, 12:58 AM
Jasdir, I'm not sure I follow you. Don't you believe in the principle of reincarnation? I'm sure people who are self-realized at early age and/or without much apparent effort are collecting the fruits of past activities.
Pietro, I believe in reincarnation.

But i never believe that it is necessary to escape into himalayas or any caves for doing "Bhakti".

As EM, said --->>> let alone 20 days or years in a cave to go in and realise our identity with Brahman <<<

This sounds like necessary to go caves for "Bhakti".

_/\_ Jasdir.

jasdir
26 March 2011, 01:40 AM
Namste Jasdir ji,

May be this is due to their PUNYA which they gain in their previous life by doing the Bhakti in the same manner like Eastern Mind ji described. Because we believe in Hinduism then we have to believe in rebirth theory.
Saral, I too very strongly believe in, "Past-bhakti" helpful for doing "Preasent-Bhakti", because nobody can destroy "True bhakti", even death.

Now my question is can you discribe your question without refrreing any scripture? but please this time answer should not be a question. I really want to gain something from you
If you are asking me how "Past-Bhakti" works for me for doing "Preasent-Bhakti" without reffering any scripture ?

Few years back one day i went to one mandir near my house with my friend, and that day i asked one question to "pujari ji" there. and my question was; How to realize god ?

Pujari ji answered: One has to control over Kaam,Krodh]]]] and instantly i compleated the sentence Lobh, moh and ahankar.
Means: Lust, anger, greed, false-attach and Ego.

My friend who was standing along with me noticed, How i compleated the sentence..?, and when we were back to home he asked that you might have listened this before..?

That day i realised that i never took intrest in such religious discussions before, than how i compleated the sentence ?

Ahhh... might be my unconcious memory, I realized.

I hope you all can understand my point, or what i want to say.

_/\_ Jasdir.

saral
26 March 2011, 05:54 AM
Namste Jasdir ji,

Yes I am getting what you said about the PUNYA Karma of previous life but my question was how you gain that punya without the help of the following ways “described by the Eastern Mind ji”

-doing japa
- home puja
- pilgrimage
- temples
- sitting in quiet reflection of the almighty
- walking with only god in mind.

I mean lets forget about the your previous lives and start a totally new life you neither have any punya or paap . Now I want to do bhakti and want to know god without help of scripture, holy books and every known method. This is the main question which keeps coming in mind from the beginning of the topic and this I want to clear from you. I hope my point or question is clear to you now.


Saadar

Saral

sunyata07
26 March 2011, 05:56 AM
Vannakkam jaswant: Although this may be true with people in reality, it is not the intention of true bhakti. True bhakti is love for love's sake, not expecting anything in return ... not even the punya, which will come on its own. One step towards God, and God takes nine to you.


Agreed. Loving God for the intent of merit is in itself insufficient, and is short of true bhakti. However, I am not saying it is an invalid method of growing in love for Him. Over time, the devotee should pray ardently in his heart that eventually his desire for escape from the wheel of death and rebirth should be transformed into absolute bhakti for God, no matter what his fate in the next life or the next after that.

I have no intent to change the topic of this post, but I reminded of the Christian Bible group posters and flyers I see all over town. Almost all of them either promise eternal hellfire and damnation if you don't "see the light", or else have this attitude of: Wanna get into heaven after you die? It's easy! Just start praying to our God and you're in! In my opinion, this is an example of false bhakti of the worst kind, where the soul is only interested in its survival after death and is motivated to turn to religion to save itself, not out of a real, genuine love for God. In this case true bhakti separates true spiritual seekers and religious survivalists.


I have a friend who is atheist... but what a nice person... no dulpcity always helping ect ect all nice qulities -- but will not touch any religion with a 10 foot pole !... he is just illusioned.. or maybe i am illusioned !.. he says religion just devides man and causes more disharmony than anything else ! ... looking into history he has a valid point !...


Namaste Jaswant,

Here is where the concept of bhakti should begin to expand for us. I have a friend who is the same; has no religion and completely distrusts any part of it, but is an all round good person at heart. An atheist still gathers punya when he does good works, helps others, foregoes harming living beings etc. He may not accept the concept of a God, but when he treats all those around him with the love and respect a theist shows, then implicitly I believe him to be showing a kind of bhakti. Is God not present in every living being? In showing love to even just the manifest aspects of God, you are still honouring Him. As for religion dividing mankind up, I think that's for another topic.

Om namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
26 March 2011, 06:11 AM
Namste Jasdir ji,

Yes I am getting what you said about the PUNYA Karma of previous life but my question was how you gain that punya without the help of the following ways “described by the Eastern Mind ji”

-doing japa
- home puja
- pilgrimage
- temples
- sitting in quiet reflection of the almighty
- walking with only god in mind.

I mean lets forget about the your previous lives and start a totally new life you neither have any punya or paap . Now I want to do bhakti and want to know god without help of scripture, holy books and every known method. This is the main question which keeps coming in mind from the beginning of the topic and this I want to clear from you. I hope my point or question is clear to you now.


Saadar

Saral

Vanakkam Saral: I don't understand. Do you want money without working? A job without applying for one?

In my observations of people, bhakti is either naturally there or it isn't. I presume that has to do with that individual soul's experience, either in this life, or in others.

Aum Namasivaya

saral
26 March 2011, 07:20 AM
"Vanakkam Saral: I don't understand. Do you want money without working? A job without applying for one?

In my observations of people, bhakti is either naturally there or it isn't. I presume that has to do with that individual soul's experience, either in this life, or in others"

Namste EM Ji,

Yes, something like that EM ji. If you think sprituality is working in the same order like wordly things works then offcourse I want the money without working.
but as far as I read or understand the sprituality I can say that spiritual order is totaly diffrent from the wordly order. for example sun, he didnt spare someone just beacuse of his poor knowladge, something is living thing or non living thing he equaly shine over all. and i think god is the same immater how poor my knowledge us,how weak my path is but id I desire him he has to come to me.

I think what i want to know jasdir ji can undersatnd easily. I think I cant explain thing very well coz i dont have good command over language so please try to understand what exactly i want to know

Saadar
Saral

Eastern Mind
26 March 2011, 07:28 AM
Vannakkam Saral: I think the sun is an excellent analogy (comparison) for God's energy. The sun, when its daytime and there are no clouds, is all pervasive (shines in all places). However, we all have to step outside in order to receive this sunlight. In other words, we have to do something. So I see God like that. God does not just go and do it all for you. You have to do something yourself, and whatever that is could be called bhakti.

Aum Namasivaya

jasdir
26 March 2011, 08:20 AM
I mean lets forget about the your previous lives and start a totally new life you neither have any punya or paap . Now I want to do bhakti and want to know god without help of scripture, holy books and every known method. This is the main question which keeps coming in mind from the beginning of the topic and this I want to clear from you. I hope my point or question is clear to you now.
Saral, the answer is hided in the question itself, ie: why to do "Bhakti" ? why everybody on this earth doesn't have such desire ? or we can say why everbody doesn't step on this path of "Bhakti" ?

For example: Why we all like to chat on only devotional forums, or HDF ? why not any other sexual chatting forum or etc etc ...

Why the people who like to chat on sexual discuission forums doesn't like to chat on devotional forums or HDF.. ? or why such forums are like boring chapters for them ?


Saral, all this is the result of past karmas.

If one has the desire of doing "Bhakti" even god discussions and all that, than all it is because of his/her past karmas.

I hope you can understand me.

_/\_ Jasdir.

saral
27 March 2011, 10:58 PM
" In other words, we have to do something. So I see God like that. God does not just go and do it all for you. You have to do something yourself, and whatever that is could be called bhakti"

Thank you Em ji, I think this is what I want to hear from you. :)

“ the answer is hided in the question itself, ie: why to do "Bhakti" ?”

:) Thank you Jasdir ji, I think I can search my answer now.


Saadar

Saral

Adhvagat
28 March 2011, 04:53 AM
Vannakkam Saral: I think the sun is an excellent analogy (comparison) for God's energy. The sun, when its daytime and there are no clouds, is all pervasive (shines in all places). However, we all have to step outside in order to receive this sunlight. In other words, we have to do something. So I see God like that. God does not just go and do it all for you. You have to do something yourself, and whatever that is could be called bhakti.

Aum Namasivaya

So we're in the deepest of caves and lamenting "Why oh why, doesn't the light shine on me?" :)

anirvan
28 March 2011, 07:54 AM
Pranam all, i disagree with the view that in path of devotion,we do bhakti without being paid :)

because here also we get remuneration ,but in different form.like bliss,happiness,the peace,the emotions etc. still advanced state one gets different divine vision,other divine experiences which are far far higher experience that any worldly gain.

These are essential to grow ahead in spiritual path. and beloved God knowingly gives this intermittently to increase the faith,and love of the devotee.sometime you will get such experience,then suddenly it will not come.that time devotee becomes desperate and try to get that experience regular.slowly higher and higher experience comes this way.so these GIFTS are form of encouragement to move ahead in initial path.
without these,one gets dissapointed,loose faith and fall from the path.

But yes in the highest devotion...Raganuga bhakti,a stage reaches where the bhakti becomes KEBALA(without any reason) or PARABHAKTI.here the actual test of bhakti starts. the more devoted one is.more test comes in his path.so no gain,only pain:)

Gopi bhava is not a smaller thing,it needs lions heart and totally putting one into fire. nobody can reach there without that tragic worldly tests.but these tests are to purify us,to take us to next level.

kd gupta
28 March 2011, 09:29 AM
Away from all rites and ritules, or bookish knowledge, or the knowledge that you have gained from others, or your parents, or your religion etc... anywhere,

Honestly, Only just using your Heart,

What do you think what is bhakti (Devotion) ?

_/\_Jasdir.
look on the conversation pl
http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/node/1463#comment-1954

jaswant
30 March 2011, 02:04 AM
look on the conversation pl
http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/node/1463#comment-1954


Namaste KD Gupta !!

I cannot quote any verses from the VEDAS OR UPANISHAADS that says one should have MURTIs in templse ect ect...... BUT What has that got to do with BHAKTI which we are discussing on this thread ?

So , what is your PERSONAL definition of Bhakti.... What is your personal take on devotion ...:)
j

kd gupta
30 March 2011, 09:15 AM
Namaste jaswantji
There is no imagination of the form of god and that is the vishvadarshanroop .
you will find in veda the offerings as somras etc indicating the human form is prayed , also for rudra to come in the form of human , laxmi being the wife of vishnu and many devas having wives etc etc.
This was simplified in sri bhagvatam to worship in human form and lastly in pindi or lingam form as a symbolic puja.
After this nine methods were described for puja or upasana for the concentration as the first step as parabhakti to finally achieve the dhyanyog or meditation leading to ananyabhakti .
Sri Bhagavaan Uvaacha:
Mayyaaveshya mano ye maam nityayuktaa upaasate;
Shraddhayaa parayopetaaste me yuktatamaa mataah.
The Blessed Lord said:
Those who, fixing their minds on Me, worship Me, ever steadfast and endowed with
supreme faith, these are the best in Yoga in My opinion...2/12 gita

Ekoham
13 July 2011, 03:33 AM
Pranam all, i disagree with the view that in path of devotion,we do bhakti without being paid :)

because here also we get remuneration ,but in different form.like bliss,happiness,the peace,the emotions etc. still advanced state one gets different divine vision,other divine experiences which are far far higher experience that any worldly gain.

These are essential to grow ahead in spiritual path. and beloved God knowingly gives this intermittently to increase the faith,and love of the devotee.sometime you will get such experience,then suddenly it will not come.that time devotee becomes desperate and try to get that experience regular.slowly higher and higher experience comes this way.so these GIFTS are form of encouragement to move ahead in initial path.
without these,one gets dissapointed,loose faith and fall from the path.

But yes in the highest devotion...Raganuga bhakti,a stage reaches where the bhakti becomes KEBALA(without any reason) or PARABHAKTI.here the actual test of bhakti starts. the more devoted one is.more test comes in his path.so no gain,only pain:)

Gopi bhava is not a smaller thing,it needs lions heart and totally putting one into fire. nobody can reach there without that tragic worldly tests.but these tests are to purify us,to take us to next level.

Wonderful Anirvan,
Your post made my visit to this thread worthwhile, it was like visiting myself through your post.

God Bless
Ekoham