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rajputistan
23 March 2011, 04:57 AM
A simple survey. I'm talking this to know what do my fellow Hindu brother feel about this religion.

There are 4 options:
1. Love
2. Like
3. Dislike
4. Hate

And also tell why.

Eastern Mind
24 March 2011, 06:19 PM
Vannakkam rajputistan: I vote for a fifth option. Indifference. We are all influenced by our interactions and experiences. In countries like India where there are a lot of Moslems, I know religion is on everyone's mind. But the fact is that over in the west here it isn't. Take the US senator or governor (some level of politician) who recently met a Hindu. He asked, "So are you Sunni or Shia?" That is the level of ignorance we are at in the west. I personally know very little about Islam. The few encounters I've had have been with the Ammadiya sect which is persecuted. So I cannot make a choice. I prefer to praise the glories of SD than to get all wound up about other religions anyway.

Aum Namasivaya

TheOne
24 March 2011, 07:02 PM
At a perfect level I would like to see the merits of something before the demerits but at my current level I see many demerits. I have to remind myself that there are many Muslims who aren't terrorists whether its through a different interpretation, sect, or just plain indifference most of them love God in their own way.


My problem is with the Qur'an not with Muslims and I see no reason why we should heckle muslims for no reason. But if someone wants a philosophical debate remember knowledge is power.

c.smith
24 March 2011, 08:21 PM
Are we talking about the religion or the people of the religion? Two different beasts, perhaps two different answers?

devotee
24 March 2011, 10:35 PM
Dear EM, TheOne and Smith,

Did you all notice his age ? He wants to carve out a country ruled by a Rajput (i.e. himself).

Any takers ?

Dear Rajput,

Please concentrate on your studies, dear. and stay away from such controversial issues. You may be able to correctly understand all these once you grow up. :)

OM

rajputistan
25 March 2011, 07:35 AM
My feeling about islam have almost changed. The truth is there are three kinds of Muslims- true muslims, atheist muslims and Hindu Muslims.

1. True Muslims- They are real danger. They follow each and every line of Quran. Believe that worship of any other thing except Allah is the greatest sin. And want to wipe out so called Kafirs.

2. Atheist Muslims- They are present in west(west to Pakistan). They are not a danger. They don't follow violent ideals of Quran. Some are complete atheist while other follows good things in Quran(come on there are good things in every religion :) ). I'm not sure to call this group atheist... but can't find any better name.

3. Hindu Muslims- They muslims are in total influence of core philosophies of Hinduism, most notably Karma. These Muslims live in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Indonesia. While Pakistan, India and Bangladesh is getting polluted by the true muslims(though they are a absolute minority), Indonesia is still safe. See the currency note of Indonesia(Ganesh Bhagwan's picture) and also name of there air lines- Garud Air Lines.

In middle East and West True Muslims are dominent figure unlike to the indo-sphere. In West and Middle East number of Atheist Muslims are increasing at a very fast rate.

So you might think there are uncountable Muslims in Africa and Middle East why don't they become terrorists? Simple Answer. Poverty don't allow to think anything else like in Somalia. And the main reason is that.... As every Indian(most) wanted independence of India, but everybody din't joint the freedom struggle. Is same as that. And other don't understand these international, war, peace, diplomacy, etc. they just follow Quran...

Good for the world soon there would either be not Hateful Muslims.

so my vote:
1. Love Hindu Muslims.
2. Like Atheist Muslims on believe in some God.
3. Dislike total Atheist Muslims.
4. Hate True Muslims.







Any takers ?

Dear Rajput,

Please concentrate on your studies, dear. and stay away from such controversial issues. You may be able to correctly understand all these once you grow up.

OM

1. In ancient India, formal education get completed at age of 16. :D And I hope I'm indo aryan.
2. Rajput nation theory had gone old. Now we are working at a Hindu nation :P And yes, I have some elders with me :P But please let's keep that all aside..
3. I think I understand these issues better then anyone..(sorry, don't mean to offend of arrogant...)

Eastern Mind
25 March 2011, 07:36 AM
Dear EM, TheOne and Smith,

Did you all notice his age ? He wants to carve out a country ruled by a Rajput (i.e. himself).

Any takers ?

Dear Rajput,

Please concentrate on your studies, dear. and stay away from such controversial issues. You may be able to correctly understand all these once you grow up. :)

OM

Vannakkam Devotee: Yes, and I also noticed Sunyata's age, Sweet Alisijia's age, and several other inquiring young minds, and I engage in discussion with them all. I don't know how old 'you know who is' but some other aged ones here have demonstrated vast clouds of anava around them. Since when is age a determinant for wisdom? I thought my answer would be helpful. Please at least give people a chance for a while until they really start saying ignorant things. Perhaps it is like the duty we have towards a sincere beggar, except we offer education as alms.

I agree in general age may have something to do with things, but I don't use it as a broad generaliser. I had many students who taught me a thing or two.

Just for information though, I don't know about the language in India, but using 'dear' in addressing a stranger in Canada is considered rude and condescending. It is a term reserved for our loved ones, and only then used sparingly.

Aum Namasivaya

sanjaya
25 March 2011, 09:34 AM
I would say that I tend towards a general dislike of Islam, since I find it to be a violent religion. That said, there are enough Muslims in India that you can't simply hate them as a group without hating a lot of fellow Indians. For better or worse some Indian Hindus are OK with this, but I'm not. Some Indian Muslims are actually quite moderate, so I try to judge individuals rather than classify them according to their religion.

I will say this though: I don't know if it's possible to actually practice Islam as it was intended without being violent.

Sahasranama
25 March 2011, 10:47 AM
Just for information though, I don't know about the language in India, but using 'dear' in addressing a stranger in Canada is considered rude and condescending. It is a term reserved for our loved ones, and only then used sparingly.

Aum Namasivaya

I didn't know that, we learned in high school English class to open letters always with Dear... What do they use in Canada?

Eastern Mind
25 March 2011, 10:55 AM
I didn't know that, we learned in high school English class to open letters always with Dear... What do they use in Canada?

Vannakkam Sahasranama: We begin informal letters with Dear as well, but that's a different meaning of the word. Its the standard greeting. The other 'dear' I was referring to would be very similar to the 'boy' greeting that the white masters used for their African American slaves. It just carries a negative connotation here. I finf the subtle nuances of language interesting. Paki is also a very derogatory term here, the racist word for all central Asians, including Indians.

But I doubt that rajputistan was offended as there I'm guessing it is like saying, 'young fellow' here, a term that has less negative connotation.

I must say I do like this thread as it tries to at least distinguish groups of Muslims as being individual, not all thinking alike like some massive army of robots. I think it is a more reasonable approach.

Aum Namasivaya

PARAM
25 March 2011, 11:24 AM
A simple survey. I'm talking this to know what do my fellow Hindu brother feel about this religion.

There are 4 options:
1. Love
2. Like
3. Dislike
4. Hate

And also tell why.

Better learn from others, then say something brave

Islam is responsible for the destruction of Dharmic values, why should we love it or like it ?

If you are talking about Muslims, then tell us what do you think about Muslim Rajputs, and Why ?

TheOne
25 March 2011, 02:38 PM
Dear EM, TheOne and Smith,

Did you all notice his age ? He wants to carve out a country ruled by a Rajput (i.e. himself).

Any takers ?

Dear Rajput,

Please concentrate on your studies, dear. and stay away from such controversial issues. You may be able to correctly understand all these once you grow up. :)

OM



Don't judge a person by his age. I am 15 years of age and I come on here. My age means absolutely nothing to me because the Atman is ageless. His wonderings and knowledge should be encouraged not stifled and have him told to "be quiet until your older" THAT is something I dislike strongly because society today decides ones ideas irrelevent based on their age.


Namaste

charitra
25 March 2011, 02:41 PM
[quote=TheOne;61103]Don't judge a person by his age. I am 15 years of age and I come on here. My age means absolutely nothing to me because the Atman is ageless.

The One, Namaste

Genes of a 15 yr old are much older (at least by a generation) than those of a 50 year old.
That clearly explains your wisdom. :D College education should be your top priority at this age.
Acharya Frank Morales of Nebraska Hindu temple had also obtained his PhD before entering priesthood. http://www.dharmacentral.com/acharyaji.php Om Shanti.

TheOne
25 March 2011, 07:45 PM
Education is a top priority of mine but here in America(and most other countries) people are supposed to go to college to become specialized in some skill or another and hope that said skill is still relevant to the world after you get out of college.


I most certainly see myself living an actively religious life but I do not see in what way yet. I also feel that many of the things I would be learning about in schools that train Hindus for priesthood are things that born Hindus are taught in youth(at least in rural India).

I also REALLY don't want to be living a non-Dharmic life aka. working for a firm that supports exploitation and has political bribery(lobbying).


Anyways sorry for getting this thread derailed : )

devotee
25 March 2011, 08:11 PM
Namaste EM,


Yes, and I also noticed Sunyata's age, Sweet Alisijia's age, and several other inquiring young minds, and I engage in discussion with them all. I don't know how old 'you know who is' but some other aged ones here have demonstrated vast clouds of anava around them. Since when is age a determinant for wisdom? I thought my answer would be helpful. Please at least give people a chance for a while until they really start saying ignorant things. Perhaps it is like the duty we have towards a sincere beggar, except we offer education as alms.

I agree in general age may have something to do with things, but I don't use it as a broad generaliser. I had many students who taught me a thing or two.

Just for information though, I don't know about the language in India, but using 'dear' in addressing a stranger in Canada is considered rude and condescending. It is a term reserved for our loved ones, and only then used sparingly.


Your post is just shocking ! Instead of trying to make the child see reason, you are driving him towards extremism ? The other young people on this forum are not talking about extremism but about spirituality and their associated problems. Are these two same ?

Please don't encourage a child to grow with wrong and poisonous ideas which can destroy him. You are not an Indian and you can't understand how dangerous it can be for him. There are already many organisations which are out to "use" such misguided youth for acheiving their political aims.

It is time for him to study and gain knowledge. If possible, let us encourage him towards that. I have lost one of my very good friends who was as misguided as this boy is. I would never like another life to be lost like this.

But anyway, if you still think, I am wrong ... I quit this thread here.

OM

yajvan
25 March 2011, 08:19 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


A simple survey. I'm talking this to know what do my fellow Hindu brother feel about this religion.

There are 4 options:
1. Love
2. Like
3. Dislike
4. Hate

And also tell why.

I would add a 5th line item.
5. Do you understand this religion ?

To this I would say no. Especially if I judge by one's actions based upon the events I read in the news, I do not understand the culture.

praṇām

Kumar_Das
25 March 2011, 10:56 PM
My feeling about islam have almost changed. The truth is there are three kinds of Muslims- true muslims, atheist muslims and Hindu Muslims.

1. True Muslims- They are real danger. They follow each and every line of Quran. Believe that worship of any other thing except Allah is the greatest sin. And want to wipe out so called Kafirs.

2. Atheist Muslims- They are present in west(west to Pakistan). They are not a danger. They don't follow violent ideals of Quran. Some are complete atheist while other follows good things in Quran(come on there are good things in every religion :) ). I'm not sure to call this group atheist... but can't find any better name.

3. Hindu Muslims- They muslims are in total influence of core philosophies of Hinduism, most notably Karma. These Muslims live in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Indonesia. While Pakistan, India and Bangladesh is getting polluted by the true muslims(though they are a absolute minority), Indonesia is still safe. See the currency note of Indonesia(Ganesh Bhagwan's picture) and also name of there air lines- Garud Air Lines.

In middle East and West True Muslims are dominent figure unlike to the indo-sphere. In West and Middle East number of Atheist Muslims are increasing at a very fast rate.

So you might think there are uncountable Muslims in Africa and Middle East why don't they become terrorists? Simple Answer. Poverty don't allow to think anything else like in Somalia. And the main reason is that.... As every Indian(most) wanted independence of India, but everybody din't joint the freedom struggle. Is same as that. And other don't understand these international, war, peace, diplomacy, etc. they just follow Quran...

Good for the world soon there would either be not Hateful Muslims.

so my vote:
1. Love Hindu Muslims.
2. Like Atheist Muslims on believe in some God.
3. Dislike total Atheist Muslims.
4. Hate True Muslims.






1. In ancient India, formal education get completed at age of 16. :D And I hope I'm indo aryan.
2. Rajput nation theory had gone old. Now we are working at a Hindu nation :P And yes, I have some elders with me :P But please let's keep that all aside..
3. I think I understand these issues better then anyone..(sorry, don't mean to offend of arrogant...)

I would advise people to not feed the trolls.

some stupid thread ~> http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=46719#post46719

Kumar_Das
25 March 2011, 11:07 PM
A simple survey. I'm talking this to know what do my fellow Hindu brother feel about this religion.

Hindus may know about Islam. But it doesn't take a huge part of their consciousness. Hindus can't be bothered by Islam per se. It is Muslim treatment of Hindus since time immemorial and the implications of a world dominated by Islam that Hindus tend to be concerned about.(just as any non-Muslim should) Only difference is that we have been dominated by Muslims in past, we have been directly ruled by them, they have shown their nature towards us and we know them like the back of our hand.

Hindus percieve Islam as barbaric, unevolved, of lower quality and humiliating for us to practice.

It's not a threat nor something that bothers us in a way for us to worry. Instead it is like a little child that throws tantrum and blows raspberries - very annoying.

Can you please go away now?

rajputistan
28 March 2011, 02:19 AM
Better learn from others, then say something brave
If you are talking about Muslims, then tell us what do you think about Muslim Rajputs, and Why ?

Completely Hate them. Whether they are Hindu Muslims or real. They the descendants of cowards who fearfully turned into Muslims. I hate them mainly because the fact one of the evilist willian of Indian history- Mohammad Ali Jinnah was a Rajput Muslim. Had his grandfather more bold, there wouldn't be any partition of India and we would had been a Super Power and UNSC permanent member by now.

PARAM
28 March 2011, 12:18 PM
---------------

Even Adi Shankar was very young when he becomes a dharma pracharak. Let youths come.





-------------
1. In ancient India, formal education get completed at age of 16. :D And I hope I'm indo aryan.
2. Rajput nation theory had gone old. Now we are working at a Hindu nation :P And yes, I have some elders with me :P But please let's keep that all aside..
3. I think I understand these issues better then anyone..(sorry, don't mean to offend of arrogant...)

1. Arya means Superior / noble, it does not mean any caste creed or anything.
In Ancient India Education time is called Brahamcharya - 16 years for Girls, 25 years for Boys.

However today education system is lacks importance.

2. There is no difference in Rajput Nation and Hindu Nation. King Vikramaditya of Parmar Dynasty protected Dharma in great Kaliyug attack, this time Parmars are divided into Rajput, Gujjar, and Jat etc.

Caste hatred is supported by Muslims, as accept Muslims on caste basis and hate other Hindus.


3. Don't think that, understand others also, but keep your mind at Dharma





Completely Hate them. Whether they are Hindu Muslims or real. They the descendants of cowards who fearfully turned into Muslims. I hate them mainly because the fact one of the evilist willian of Indian history- Mohammad Ali Jinnah was a Rajput Muslim. Had his grandfather more bold, there wouldn't be any partition of India and we would had been a Super Power and UNSC permanent member by now.

You really have some knowledge, however I do not said I hate all Muslims
you forget the question - Do you love/like/dislike/hate Islam? Why?

Islam in fact not to love or like.

However I have seen something this username - Rajputistan in another site, are you the same?

Rationalist
28 March 2011, 05:45 PM
I hate Islam because of the belligerent, political, and societally dogmatic aspects.

Yeah, yeah, blah blah "but its all nice and good on the inside!" Hate to disappoint you all but that isn't what makes a religion, a religion.

Mohammed was also a lusty and dirty barbarian who killed non-believers with zeal.

Divine Kala
02 April 2011, 06:10 AM
A few years ago I might have said I admired Islam but I have done too much research into the subject to feel that way any more. I hate to say that I hate something because it's such a strong word but... what can I really say? Maybe it's better to say I disagree, very strongly, on a number of fundamental levels.

I do not hate Muslims - the vast majority of which, today, are not converts but men and women who have been born into the faith due to the forceful conversion of their ancestors - rather I feel sorry for them. (Bear in mind, I also feel sorry from Christians as well.) Through no fault of their own they have grown up with Islam and its ways and that's all they know. Even something as monstrous as Islam is more comforting than the unknown and when you are told that the unknown is evil and all who practise it are going to hell you are far more likely to cleave to what you do know.

My prayers go to those who have found the strength to step outside of Islam and whether they have adopted a new religion (Christianity, even if I don't agree with it, is surely a step in the right direction) or atheism in order to do that, I pray that their strength never wanes.

So I guess it would be best to say I hate the religion but not the people. They are trapped and they don't know any way out so they turn on one another and anyone they perceive as having more then them.

Rationalist
03 April 2011, 10:51 AM
But we can all agree that compared to Christianity, Islam seems tame. At least Mohammed was honest about his religion. Jesus was nothing more than a manipulative psychopath (non-existent as well).

Adhvagat
03 April 2011, 12:01 PM
Are you sane? At least the Christian crusades of violence are on hold.

Divine Kala
08 April 2011, 06:44 AM
But we can all agree that compared to Christianity, Islam seems tame. At least Mohammed was honest about his religion. Jesus was nothing more than a manipulative psychopath (non-existent as well).

No, I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. Christianity has, and is, evolving and those calling themselves Christians in 500 years wouldn't be recognised as such by their brethren today. Islam, on the other hand, is not evolving (except maybe for the sufis and they are considered heretics by mainstream Muslims). It resists any such changes tooth and nail and issues death warrants on anyone who tries to implement anything that might serve to introduce changes. Yes, Christianity did that too but the important thing is that Christianity has, for the most, moved beyond that. It really is the fanatics in Christianity calling for the death of abortionists or lobbying for the rights of women to be pulled back, not that majority. The majority of Christians are Sunday only or Christians-in-name-only.

Muslims, on the other hand... People say the majority are peaceful. The majority are not peaceful, look at their own countries. They fight and cry amongst themselves, killing one another and delighting in the pain and suffering of those they see as deserving of death. In small communities they are peaceful but only because they have to be. Only because they cannot assert any influence over the majority when they do not have the numbers. The minute they have the numbers - and this includes Western educated Muslims who have grown up with all the freedoms and liberties of the West - they start the fight again, calling for Sharia, saying you cannot depict this, you cannot depict that.

The majority are fanatics because that is the type of religion that Islam is. It only the strong of mind who, having read the Koran, take a look around them and say 'you know... this isn't how the world should be. We should not want to kill people merely because they do not want to accept Islam.' And those strong men and women, upon realising this and - inevitably - leaving Islam quickly find that the death warrant is now hanging over their heads. No wonder many must escape their own countries first before declaring that they have left the so-called religion of peace.

Islam means surrender, and its proponents like to say that means surrender to God. That's not what it means. It means 'surrender your gold, your women, your assets and your power to me because I have this book that says unless you do so you are destined for hell and I may kill you and rape your women'.

Surrender to God means something very, very different from what Islam propounds. We see surrender to God in Christianity (and while it's not the best form of surrender, at least they're trying to cultivate a relationship with God based on love, not Fear) and we see surrender to God in Hinduism, particularly in the practise of Bhakti. You surrender your love, you surrender your ego. Islam does not do any of these.

I cannot ever support Islam. I see Christianity as a step up but I do not support it either. At least with Christians I can argue, sometimes vehemently, against their beliefs and maybe even change their minds but I cannot do that with Muslims for fear of aggression.

(Also, side note: the only Muslims I know who do not follow the orders of the Prophet as Muslims who have not read the Koran and do not known its very basic tenets.)

The sooner Islam fizzles out, the sooner the world can begin to heal. Same goes for Christianity. (Not so much Judaism as it is extremely insular.)

Sorry this was so long...

Sahasranama
08 April 2011, 06:49 AM
Sorry this was so long...

Don't be sorry, this is a discussion forum, type as much as you want. :D

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 06:55 AM
A simple survey. I'm talking this to know what do my fellow Hindu brother feel about this religion.

There are 4 options:
1. Love
2. Like
3. Dislike
4. Hate

And also tell why.

A religion tends to be judged by the actions of its practitioners. Sure there are nutty Hindus/Jews/Christians. But I am sorry to state that whatever beauty may be in Islam pales in comparison to the death/destruction/bloodshed its practitioners have caused. That alone is reason enough to ban it in countries around the world. (I have been told my views on this topic are extreme. But sorry, I see no other alternative of dealing with Islam :()

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 06:57 AM
A religion tends to be judged by the actions of its practitioners. Sure there are nutty Hindus/Jews/Christians. But I am sorry to state that whatever beauty may be in Islam pales in comparison to the death/destruction/bloodshed its practitioners have caused. That alone is reason enough to ban it in countries around the world. (I have been told my views on this topic are extreme. But sorry, I see no other alternative of dealing with Islam :()

It's very wrong to have such an aggressive attitude. I hope you reconsider your views. Islam is a religion, no matter how much we try to deny it. Pointing to the mistakes made by its followers is akin to missionaries harping on caste system within the Hindu religion.

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 07:02 AM
The majority are fanatics because that is the type of religion that Islam is.

If the majority were fanatics, the world would have disappeared by now. Truth is, very few of them are. Most Muslims are peaceful and civilized.

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 07:05 AM
It's very wrong to have such an aggressive attitude. I hope you reconsider your views. Islam is a religion, no matter how much we try to deny it. Pointing to the mistakes made by its followers is akin to missionaries harping on caste system within the Hindu religion.

Nah. I can condemn the caste system and still be a Hindu. Ask a Muslim to condemn the death penalty for apostasy and just sit back and watch the fun as they tie themselves in knots trying to justify death for apostates.

So, your analogy fails.

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 07:09 AM
Nah. I can condemn the caste system and still be a Hindu. Ask a Muslim to condemn the death penalty for apostasy and just sit back and watch the fun as they tie themselves in knots trying to justify death for apostates.

So, your analogy fails.

There will always be a few bad apples in every community. But do we have the right to condemn an entire community on that basis?

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 07:09 AM
Most Muslims are peaceful and civilized.
Whats your proof of this?

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 07:10 AM
Whats your proof of this?

There are 1.5 billion Muslims, of which few of them commit violent acts. It's therefore safe to conclude that a majority of them are peaceful and civilized. Simple inference, that's all.

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 07:10 AM
There will always be a few bad apples in every community. But do we have the right to condemn an entire community on that basis?

Why are you trying to defend the indefensible? Anyone who supports death for apostasy is a terrorist. No?

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 07:12 AM
Why are you trying to defend the indefensible? Anyone who supports death for apostasy is a terrorist. No?

Out of 1.5b Muslims, how many of them do that? Very, very few, so why judge the rest based on the actions of a few? That's all I am saying: judge those who commit violent acts, but do not judge the rest who're innocent.

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 07:13 AM
There are 1.5 billion Muslims, of which few of them commit violent acts. It's therefore safe to conclude that a majority of them are peaceful and civilized. Simple inference, that's all.

So...merely supporting death for apostasy does NOT count as hateful and uncivilized by you? It is only when one chops off the head of Daniel Pearl and circulates that video one is hateful and uncivilized? Remember, if you are silent when atrocities are being committed in the name of your religion, you are also an enabler and therefore an accomplice.

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 07:15 AM
So...merely supporting death for apostasy does NOT count as hateful and uncivilized by you? It is only when one chops off the head of Daniel Pearl and circulates that video one is hateful and uncivilized? Remember, if you are silent when atrocities are being committed in the name of your religion, you are also an enabler and therefore an accomplice.

Again, how many Muslims support death for apostasy? Very few, so why judge 1.5 billion people because of a few fanatics?

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 07:16 AM
Out of 1.5b Muslims, how many of them do that? Very, very few, so why judge the rest based on the actions of a few? That's all I am saying: judge those who commit violent acts, but do not judge the rest who're innocent.

How do YOU know only very very few of the 1.5 B Muslims on earth support the death penalty for apostasy? You are making very specific claims here and therefore you shoulder the burden of proof.

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 07:18 AM
@astrostudent:

Can we agree that any Muslim who supports death penalty for apostasy is a terrorist?

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 07:21 AM
How do YOU know only very very few of the 1.5 B Muslims on earth support the death penalty for apostasy? You are making very specific claims here and therefore you shoulder the burden of proof.

Did 1.5 billion Muslims make a public announcement that they support death for apostasy? If not, shouldn't we conclude they don't?

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 07:25 AM
Did 1.5 billion Muslims make a public announcement that they support death for apostasy? If not, shouldn't we conclude they don't?

No. That would be a logical fallacy. If I have the time I will find out and edit to add what logical fallacy that would be.

Edited to Add: You would be committing the base rate fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies).

Also, (using your own flawed logic) what would be wrong with this:

Did 1.5 billion Muslims make a public announcement that they condemn death for apostasy? If not, shouldn't we conclude they don't?

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 08:01 AM
No. That would be a logical fallacy. If I have the time I will find out and edit to add what logical fallacy that would be.

Edited to Add: You would be committing the base rate fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies).

Also, (using your own flawed logic) what would be wrong with this:

Did 1.5 billion Muslims make a public announcement that they condemn death for apostasy? If not, shouldn't we conclude they don't?

You claimed that a billion Muslims favor death for apostasy. Where's your evidence for that?

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 08:12 AM
You claimed that a billion Muslims favor death for apostasy. Where's your evidence for that?

Ok. So, you DONT have evidence that 1.5 Billion Muslims are peaceful.

I will outline my argument now. On the internet, in different forums, whenever the question of apostasy comes up, Muslims come a cropper. An example on this very forum is this Pakistani here (http://hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=62050&postcount=15). On top of this, we have great Muslim intellectuals like this genius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XRCYlZ4XOQ) and this genius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRl5c-xPVA0).

I also suggest you go through the series of videos (7 in number) starting here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq2v_GgEsi4). Specifically look at the 7th video where the audience actually votes on the question of whether Islam is a religion of peace. ;)

Are you a Muslim?

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 08:28 AM
Ok. So, you DONT have evidence that 1.5 Billion Muslims are peaceful.

Er, since a billion Muslims haven't done anything violent, it's logical to conclude that they're peaceful.

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 08:34 AM
Er, since a billion Muslims haven't done anything violent, it's logical to conclude that they're peaceful.

You continue to be illogical. An illogical mind can reach any conclusion.

Let me pin you down here:

(1)Is a Muslim who supports death penalty for apostasy a terrorist? (Yes/No/I dont know)
(2)The 19 hijackers who flew the plane into the Twin Towers were terrorists. (You agree/disagree). Assuming you agree, by the (flawed) logic you continue to employ, 1 second prior to the planes hitting the towers, they hadnt done anything violent. Were they peaceful that 1 second prior?
(3)Do you believe in "La Ilaha Il Allah Mohammed Rasool Allah"? (Yes/No)

I am getting tired of going back and forth with you when you are completely evasive on fairly pointed questions I am posing to you. To make it easier for you, I have also given the various choices of answers along with my questions. Lets see your responses now.

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 08:40 AM
Dear God, how many times do I need to say that there are bad apples in every community? But it is wrong to paint a billion people with the same brush. Just because a few Hindus practice caste system, would it be fair for an outsider to say that all Hindus are obsessed with caste?

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 08:44 AM
Dear God, how many times do I need to say that there are bad apples in every community? But it is wrong to paint a billion people with the same brush. Just because a few Hindus practice caste system, would it be fair for an outsider to say that all Hindus are obsessed with caste?

I already showed the flaw in your analogy.

Answer the 3 questions, please. Else, this is my last post to you. I will conclude that you ARE a Muslim because you are unable to answer my questions - especially question 3 unless you employ Taqqiya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya).

anirvan
08 April 2011, 08:51 AM
I certainly can"t dislike islam though i am very much pained by the actions of psychopath,fanatic muslims to my religion and country.

The reason is who knows we had been muslims in our previous births,may be born as muslims in future births ?

JUST LIKE EDUCATION SYSTEM, there are class - 1,2,3,.......till higher and higher degrees., muslim is a preliminary education system where lower grade students are educated with basic knowledge.

Second thing,islam teches justice better than any religion for sure. dont go by fanatic"s thinking.

Just look into the previous birth of one of greatest sage of modern time,you will realize secret of karma.

http://www.sanctusgermanus.net/english/Kuthumi.html

then you decide wheather to love or hate.

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 08:51 AM
I already showed the flaw in your analogy.

Answer the 3 questions, please. Else, this is my last post to you. I will conclude that you ARE a Muslim because you are unable to answer my questions - especially question 3 unless you employ Taqqiya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya).

This is the funniest thread ever. If a guy doesn't answer silly questions on a forum, you'll conclude he's a Muslim? Thanks for giving me a laugh.

devotee
08 April 2011, 09:06 AM
Dear Wundermonk,

Please stop attacking astrostudent. What harm has he done to you or any one of us ? There is God in everyone ... He is there is astrostudent too. He is a Muslim ... so what ? There is nothing wrong in being a Muslim. It is wrong to be a terrorist & he is not one. He is like anyone of us unless he proves it otherwise.

Let's maintain peace & harmony among all forum members. :)

OM

Sahasranama
08 April 2011, 10:11 AM
Ok. So, you DONT have evidence that 1.5 Billion Muslims are peaceful.

I will outline my argument now. On the internet, in different forums, whenever the question of apostasy comes up, Muslims come a cropper. An example on this very forum is this Pakistani here (http://hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=62050&postcount=15). On top of this, we have great Muslim intellectuals like this genius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XRCYlZ4XOQ) and this genius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRl5c-xPVA0).

I also suggest you go through the series of videos (7 in number) starting here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq2v_GgEsi4). Specifically look at the 7th video where the audience actually votes on the question of whether Islam is a religion of peace. ;)

Are you a Muslim?

Thanks for posting that debate.

Ayaan Hirshi Ali used to be a politician in the Netherlands. She was hiding under protection of the army for a while and till 2007 fled to America out of fear for muslim terrorist attacks. After a muslim murdered Theo van Gogh, a Dutch film producer who made fun of Islam, Ayaan was also threatened with death.

I have never listened to her speak that long, but she has debated this topic very intelligently. I really like that she said "no monotheistic religion can be a religion of peace." Not many people in the west are so vocal about this, a lot of anti-muslims are actually comming from a Judeo-Christian background and are not ready to acknowledge the faults in their own version of abrahamic monotheism.

Of course, the muslim apologists took this to mean that they were preaching against all religions. He completely failed to acknowledge that monotheistic religions are not all religions.

Great debate and great results on changing the audience mind so significantly. This proves that bringing this issues on the table is not a waste of time.

yajvan
08 April 2011, 11:42 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

To wundermonk and astro student.


If there are differences of opinion that is fine and we the reader may benefit...Yet if there deep issues and passions flare, we have a place at HDF where these grivences can be voiced to one's heart content : http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6420 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6420)


In this folder, if you care to continue an argument ( jalpa - a kind of disputation) you are free to do so. Others are welcomed to watch or participate as they see fit.
We try to accomodate all conversations for each level of the 3 guna-s that may arise. At the same time it does not derail the existing thread that is in play and where others will not be distracted.


praṇām

satay
08 April 2011, 01:51 PM
Admin Note

Thread under review.