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sm78
01 April 2011, 05:38 AM
... What next? A Gandhi Blasphemy law, proclaiming death penalty by stoning for any form of Gandhi Insult perhaps?

It is sad that only sensible politician in India (Mr Modi) is also playing to the tune for votes, can't blame him really.

Sahasranama
01 April 2011, 06:23 AM
This is just retarded.

astrostudent
01 April 2011, 06:38 AM
... What next? A Gandhi Blasphemy law, proclaiming death penalty by stoning for any form of Gandhi Insult perhaps?

It is sad that only sensible politician in India (Mr Modi) is also playing to the tune for votes, can't blame him really.

You mean Mahatma Gandhi? If so, the law is redundant because who in their right mind would want to insult him?

Sahasranama
01 April 2011, 11:07 AM
Regardless, it should not be made a crime to tell the truth about Mahatma Gandhi. Gandhi did make racist comments about the blacks, he wrote letters to Hitler calling him a friend, he slept naked with young girls. For saying all this I should probably avoid stepping a foot in India. There are also many who respect Gandhi as a person, but disagree with his politics. Is that also going to be a crime?

It is sad that only sensible politician in India (Mr Modi) is also playing to the tune for votes, can't blame him really.What is Modi doing?

Believer
01 April 2011, 01:15 PM
Gandhi did .......he slept naked with young girls.

Questions:
1. Is this moral judgement or jealousy? ;)
2. When, where, with who and under what circumstances? Did someone post his sex video on YouTube?

Sahasranama
01 April 2011, 01:20 PM
1. Is this moral judgement or jealousy? ;)
:p


2. When, where, with who and under what circumstances? Did someone post his sex video on YouTube?It was one of his odd behaviors, he tested his brahmacharya by sleeping with naked young women.

astrostudent
01 April 2011, 01:44 PM
There is no proof for any of this, only conjectures. Anybody can create 'quotes' and attribute them to Gandhi - and people are going to believe. How come these 'quotes' and 'proof' were missing before and they're appearing only now?

If Gandhi really were racist/pervert, the British empire could have used all this 'proof' to destroy Gandhi's image and reputation throughout the word, and thus consolidated their rule in India. That they didn't should make us suspect the whole thing. Only from the year 2004 (or was it 2003?), all this 'proof' about Gandhi's racism and perversion appears magically. How convenient!

But like I said, people are more interested in abusing the Mahatma than in living up to his standards. It's all jealousy, what else?

Sahasranama
01 April 2011, 02:01 PM
It's not surprising that a Gandhi loving universalist wants to dispute these claims. It's your good right to do so, but the Indian government is making blasphemy laws so that nobody can insult Gandhi. This is a big step backward and puts India one step closer to the Islamic dictatorships. Maybe Salman Rushdie's next book will be about India and Hinduism. This is not about Gandhi, it's about freedom of speech.

Adhvagat
01 April 2011, 02:56 PM
Questions:
1. Is this moral judgement or jealousy? ;)


:p

You guys never cease to provide me some good laughs. :D

astrostudent
01 April 2011, 02:59 PM
It's not surprising that a Gandhi loving universalist wants to dispute these claims. It's your good right to do so, but the Indian government is making blasphemy laws so that nobody can insult Gandhi. This is a big step backward and puts India one step closer to the Islamic dictatorships. Maybe Salman Rushdie's next book will be about India and Hinduism. This is not about Gandhi, it's about freedom of speech.

See, once I challenged you on your lies, you changed the subject. Freedom of speech is fine, but don't think it's a freedom to lie and hurl insults at our Mahatma. By doing so, you're only bringing disgrace to our country and to our religion.

Sahasranama
01 April 2011, 03:09 PM
Maybe you are telling lies. :)

astrostudent
01 April 2011, 03:11 PM
Maybe you are telling lies. :)

I understand your frustration.:D Since you can't counter the arguments, you're desperately trying to wriggle out of this.

Sahasranama
01 April 2011, 03:23 PM
I can quote the stories, but you are just going to say that I am a liar.

charitra
01 April 2011, 04:55 PM
Gandhi movie was shown in my daughter's high school this week, as a chapter of world geography and she is proud that her parents are from India, thank you Gandhiji. :p
I sense trouble brewing for me though.... meeting all her high expectations (Gandhian, no less) in future as well is a tall order.
Back to topic, freedom to write and speak mustn’t be curtailed, just ignore the book author, he got his 10 minute of fame, he will go away. The book brings shutters down on his writing career.

devotee
02 April 2011, 12:04 AM
Namaste all,

I have seen some people who have extremely distorted views about Gandhi & I am sure none of them (including SM78 and Sahasranama) might have read even 10 % about Mahatma Gandhi from authentic sources. It is all just loose talking, rumours spread by Gandhi baitors. Please correct me, if I am wrong.

Sleeping wih naked women ? Sahasranama will do justice to his post by quoting exact excerpts from some reliable source so that the forum should be able to know how many naked women slept with Mahatma. Mind it, used words are "naked" and "women". There was one such instance when he tried to test his control on his sexual urges & he was successful in that. Or Sahasranama should tell us whether he raped/had sexual intercourse with "those women" in the guise of testing his Brahmacharya, if he knows it better ?

Freedom of Speech ? or Freedom of hurling abuses against one of the most respected personalities in the world who has been source of inspiration for millions ? Do you think it raises your status in the eyes of others ? IMHO, it is not a healthy sign to indulge in mud-slinging against or trying to harm great personalities to feel important (as you are able to abuse/hurt a great man & that is a great achievement !) when you are nowhere near the stature of that great person. Will it not be proper to raise your level first so that you can see Gandhi clearly ? My dear friend, no one can make the Sun dirty by spitting on it ... he is most likely to make himself dirty in the process.

My dear friend, may I suggest you to read authentic Indian History & Mahatma's autobiography (My experiments with Truth) to know the Truth ? You may also like to read books written by people who were close to Gandhi at that time. Gandhi's life was fully transparent ... he had nothing to hide from anyone. See it and decide for yourself whether your attack against Gandhi is really justified ?

OM

devotee
02 April 2011, 12:50 AM
Note : The following excerpts has been taken from Wikipeida on Gandhi. Let's note that "sleeping" was there but it was with motherly love and not for satisfying sexual urges. It was only with Sarladevi where he almost failed to control his urges but finally succeeded.

Brahmacharya

Gandhi and celibacy




When Gandhi was 16 his father became very ill. Being very devoted to his parents, he attended to his father at all times during his illness. However, one night, Gandhi's uncle came to relieve Gandhi for a while. He retired to his bedroom where carnal desires overcame him and he made love to his wife. Shortly afterward a servant came to report that Gandhi's father had just died. Gandhi felt tremendous guilt and never could forgive himself. He came to refer to this event as "double shame."

The incident had significant influence in Gandhi becoming celibate at the age of 36, while still married.

Towards the end of his life, it became public knowledge that Gandhi had been sharing his bed for a number of years with young women. He explained that he did this for bodily warmth at night and termed his actions as "nature cure". Later in his life he started experimenting with brahmacharya in order to test his self-control. His letter to Birla in April 1945 referring to 'women or girls who have been naked with me' indicates that several women were part of his experiments. He wrote five editorials in Harijan discussing the practice of brahmacharya. As part of these experiments, he initially slept with his women associates in the same room but at a distance. Afterwards he started to lie in the same bed with his women disciples and later took to sleeping naked alongside them. According to Gandhi active-celibacy meant perfect self-control in the presence of the opposite sex. Gandhi conducted his experiments with a number of women such as Abha, the sixteen-year-old wife of his grandnephew Kanu Gandhi. Gandhi acknowledged "that this experiment is very dangerous indeed", but thought "that it was capable of yielding great results". His nineteen-year-old grandniece, Manu Gandhi, too was part of his experiments. Gandhi had earlier written to her father, Jaisukhlal Gandhi, that Manu had started to share his bed so that he may "correct her sleeping posture". Gandhi saw himself as a mother to these women and would refer to Abha and Manu as "my walking sticks".
Gandhi called Sarladevi, a married woman with children and a devout follower, his "spiritual wife". He later said that he had come close to having sexual relations with her. He had told a correspondent in March, 1945 that "sleeping together came with my taking up of bramhacharya or even before that"; he said he had experimented with his wife "but that was not enough". Gandhi felt satisfied with his experiments and wrote to Manu that "I have successfully practiced the eleven vows taken by me. This is the culmination of my striving for last thirty-six years. In this yajna I got a glimpse of the ideal truth and purity for which I have been striving".
Gandhi had to take criticism for his experiments by many of his followers and opponents. His stenographer, R. P. Parasuram, resigned when he saw Gandhi sleeping naked with Manu. Gandhi insisted that he never felt aroused while he slept beside her, or with Sushila Nayar or Abha. "I am sorry" Gandhi said to Parasuram, "you are at liberty to leave me today." Nirmal Bose, leading anthropologist and close associate of Gandhi, parted company with him in April, 1947 post Gandhi's tour of Noakhali, where some sort of altercation had taken place between Gandhi and Sushila in his bedroom at midnight that caused Gandhi to slap his forehead. Bose said, "there was no immorality on part of Gandhi. Moreover Gandhi tried to conquer the feeling of sex by consciously endeavouring to convert himself into a mother of those who were under his case, whether men or women". This maternal emphasis has also been pointed out by Dattatreya Kelkar, a revolutionary turned disciple of Gandhi.

***************

astrostudent
02 April 2011, 12:56 AM
Namaste all,

I have seen some people who have extremely distorted views about Gandhi & I am sure none of them (including SM78 and Sahasranama) might have read even 10 % about Mahatma Gandhi from authentic sources. It is all just loose talking, rumours spread by Gandhi baitors. Please correct me, if I am wrong.

Sleeping wih naked women ? Sahasranama will do justice to his post by quoting exact excerpts from some reliable source so that the forum should be able to know how many naked women slept with Mahatma. Mind it, used words are "naked" and "women". There was one such instance when he tried to test his control on his sexual urges & he was successful in that. Or Sahasranama should tell us whether he raped/had sexual intercourse with "those women" in the guise of testing his Brahmacharya, if he knows it better ?

Freedom of Speech ? or Freedom of hurling abuses against one of the most respected personalities in the world who has been source of inspiration for millions ? Do you think it raises your status in the eyes of others ? IMHO, it is not a healthy sign to indulge in mud-slinging against or trying to harm great personalities to feel important (as you are able to abuse/hurt a great man & that is a great achievement !) when you are nowhere near the stature of that great person. Will it not be proper to raise your level first so that you can see Gandhi clearly ? My dear friend, no one can make the Sun dirty by spitting on it ... he is most likely to make himself dirty in the process.

My dear friend, may I suggest you to read authentic Indian History & Mahatma's autobiography (My experiments with Truth) to know the Truth ? You may also like to read books written by people who were close to Gandhi at that time. Gandhi's life was fully transparent ... he had nothing to hide from anyone. See it and decide for yourself whether your attack against Gandhi is really justified ?

OM

Adding to this beautiful post, most people who do this are not interested in truth or freedom of speech; they simply want to make a quick buck, gain some popularity. And thanks to people like Sahas and sm, these 'writers' become rich and famous.

astrostudent
02 April 2011, 01:02 AM
After reading #16, my admiration for the Mahatma has increased ten-fold. The honesty with which he set out to accomplish this ... at the risk of antagonizing even his friends and family, the criticism he might face etc etc. ... amazing.

Rationalist
03 April 2011, 11:58 AM
Excellent law! Let's ignore the Muslims and the Christians who **** on Hinduism on a secondly basis and pass a law that restricts the freedom of speech with respect to speculation on Gandhi!

Anyone who agrees with this violation of natural rights is an idiot. One must always respect the RIGHT of others to speak their mind; however, this does not mean you have to respect WHAT THEY SAY. There is no law needed to restrict defamatory attacks on Gandhi for there are many out there who are more than capable enough to counter such affronts.

Ramakrishna
03 April 2011, 05:06 PM
Namaste,

In my opinion, I think this is a pretty dumb law. I greatly admire Gandhiji and think he was a wonderful and truly inspiring man, but I don't think anybody should be outside the bounds of criticism. This law may also tarnish India's image in the international community.

Jai Sri Ram

Believer
04 April 2011, 09:21 AM
Excellent law! Let's ignore the Muslims and the Christians who **** on Hinduism on a secondly basis and pass a law that restricts the freedom of speech with respect to speculation on Gandhi!

Anyone who agrees with this violation of natural rights is an idiot. One must always respect the RIGHT of others to speak their mind; however, this does not mean you have to respect WHAT THEY SAY. There is no law needed to restrict defamatory attacks on Gandhi for there are many out there who are more than capable enough to counter such affronts.

O Mr. Rationalist, I can accept all of your comments, but one of them is kinda hard to swallow. Would you like to rephrase it? Or send me a 'smart pill' so that I can rise to your level of intellect and decide which side of the issue I want to be on. Thanks.
-

Rationalist
04 April 2011, 09:48 PM
O Mr. Rationalist, I can accept all of your comments, but one of them is kinda hard to swallow. Would you like to rephrase it? Or send me a 'smart pill' so that I can rise to your level of intellect and decide which side of the issue I want to be on. Thanks.
-

Sorry for the outburst Believer.

Regardless, I still believe that anyone who is willing to go so far as to restrict freedom of speech for such a TINY issue is being foolish.

In fact, the only time I believe where the suppression of this right is acceptable is during war, where what a minority or a faction says can compromise national integrity.

sm78
05 April 2011, 01:08 AM
Sorry for the outburst Believer.

Regardless, I still believe that anyone who is willing to go so far as to restrict freedom of speech for such a TINY issue is being foolish.

It might be foolish or clever depending on the agenda & purpose. Cong survives on Gandhi worship, so it was hardly a foolish thing on their part.

However the thread was not intended to have another discussion on greatness or evil of Gandhi (as it seems to have become), but a sharia like move being discussed by Home Ministry. You can search it out on Google - it all started when some gentleman wrote a book saying Gandhi was gay or bi or something - Modi govt and Maharastra govt went ahead to ban the book. Cong govt at the center could not be left behind and was contemplating this law to ban any Gandhi criticism alltogether - a nice Ayotollah Khemani like move...I haven't kept tack of the developments since then, as I was busy traveling and doing more important things this weekend.

rajputistan
21 April 2011, 05:42 AM
People passing the law would be the first people to be executing because passing this law would be a great insult to Gandhi. Gandhi even forgave Nathuram Godse for this assassination. Though I don't support Gandhian Philosophy and don't consider him the reason behind Indian independence but nevertheless because of him millions of people become nationalist to fight for mother land. Only a Gandhi or only a Bose is not enough. We need people of both kind(Gandhi and Bose).

It is foolishness that you are punishing somebody for Gandhi? Total foolishness. Gandhi would be so sad to there this. This law is itself insulting Gandhi.

Believer
21 April 2011, 08:20 AM
Gandhi even forgave Nathuram Godse for this assassination.

Really?
-

Sahasranama
21 April 2011, 08:27 AM
I don't think he was around much longer after his assasination. ;)

rajputistan
21 April 2011, 09:08 PM
Really?
-

A person who forgave British(Peaceful movement), murderers of uncountable throughout the Earth- can't he forgave his own murderer:rolleyes:

And then I have heard(no solid proof) that Gandhi said not to kill his murderer.:rolleyes:

I think congress want to get votes of Gandhians :mad:

PARAM
24 April 2011, 11:18 AM
A person who forgave British(Peaceful movement), murderers of uncountable throughout the Earth- can't he forgave his own murderer:rolleyes:

And then I have heard(no solid proof) that Gandhi said not to kill his murderer.:rolleyes:

I think congress want to get votes of Gandhians :mad:

I can say Gandhi never forgives British Rule, he only wanted to use peaceful movement because, and this made British Administration in difficulty.

About Mahatma Godse, he did what he has to do. I don't know why he was not forgiven by the court either, yes when the same murderer British officers were leaving India, nobody tried to punish them, all because of Congress.

rajputistan
24 April 2011, 07:53 PM
I can say Gandhi never forgives British Rule, he only wanted to use peaceful movement because, and this made British Administration in difficulty.

About Mahatma Godse, he did what he has to do. I don't know why he was not forgiven by the court either, yes when the same murderer British officers were leaving India, nobody tried to punish them, all because of Congress.


See, by forgiving I don't mean that he said Indian-British are brothers or something similar. By that I mean he didn't supported the violence against the British Authorities. See the case of civil disobedience movement, just one Police station was burned and he cancelled whole movement :sad:

eriko
25 April 2011, 04:30 AM
forget i said anything..how do u delete ur post?

Sahasranama
16 May 2011, 04:44 PM
Koenraad Elst wrote a book review Question the Mahatma:

http://koenraadelst.blogspot.com/2011/04/questioning-mahatma.html

sankar
16 May 2011, 10:13 PM
Regardless, it should not be made a crime to tell the truth about Mahatma Gandhi. Gandhi did make racist comments about the blacks, he wrote letters to Hitler calling him a friend, he slept naked with young girls. For saying all this I should probably avoid stepping a foot in India. There are also many who respect Gandhi as a person, but disagree with his politics. Is that also going to be a crime?
What is Modi doing?

i believe many of his teachings were ultimate cr*p, but as a person he was good.

Sahasranama
17 May 2011, 03:45 AM
I don't know, but someone with so much political influence who repeatedly said that he didn't care that many (Hindus) died and should rather die willingly is not a good person in my book. That this so called mahatma has become the posterboy of India and Hinduism is even more shameful. People do not tolerate even the sligthest bit of assertiveness from Hindus, because they would rather have us behave like Gandhi.

upsydownyupsy mv ss
19 May 2011, 05:32 AM
:Roll: I dunno how to react!

A part of me says....... Finally a good thing after politicians themselves have insulted Gandhi in many contexts. Recently a politician in Karnataka, named Kumaraswami said, "If Gandhi were alive today, even he would have been corrupted." I was really angry at that time.

Another says....... How silly of us Indians?! Now we need a law to protect the spotless image of the nation's father? Its not silly that Modi thought of this, its silly that situations were created to make him think like this.

issacnewton
08 June 2011, 08:35 AM
I think I like some of the policies of gandhi, like some thoughts on village economy were sound. his promotion of village crafts, khadi , panchayat raj
are good. but his non-violence philosophy was horrible. for that only he needed to be killed. hail nathuram godse.

western media promotes him because they want to put him as role model for hindus, so hindus become pussies like him.

probably west has deep contempt for him......

rcscwc
13 June 2011, 09:06 AM
... What next? A Gandhi Blasphemy law, proclaiming death penalty by stoning for any form of Gandhi Insult perhaps?

It is sad that only sensible politician in India (Mr Modi) is also playing to the tune for votes, can't blame him really.

Any basis for this mud slinging on Modi?

Rajeev_hindu
08 March 2012, 07:08 AM
I can not understand how could one shut eyes to the blunders of Gandhi. I don't know what his philosophies, satyagrah and all were, but any person with basic knowledge of human nature can easily see that these things never work.

Eastern Mind
09 March 2012, 09:33 AM
I can not understand how could one shut eyes to the blunders of Gandhi. I don't know what his philosophies, satyagrah and all were, but any person with basic knowledge of human nature can easily see that these things never work.

Vannakkam: Welcome to HDF, Rajeev. In my limited view, it isn't so much that one shuts their eyes, its that other alternative stories (not just in this case, but in all kinds of things) aren't presented for those on the outside to see, so what else are they to assume? For example, do you think many Catholics have seen negative documentaries on Mother Theresa? It's not like some large newspaper in Italy is going to write the story. They'd be out of business in a day. I was about 24 before a university prof showed her class some of the atrocities commited by the CIA in Chile, Guatemala, and elsewhere. Otherwise I'd still be naive. So if you're bombarded by one side only with a press that is really good/bad. black/white clouded, what is to be expected?

Aum Namasivaya

Visvamitra
10 March 2012, 04:55 AM
but his non-violence philosophy was horrible.

I believe that it was this practice that inspired Martin Luther King in the U.S.

I do not believe in censor however. Say someone unearthed something about someone who the law says a negative thing should not be spoken about? I think that can lead to bad things. People will smear others openly or in secret. It happens. Trust to the people to distinguish the wheat from the chaff.

Kumar_Das
16 December 2012, 04:21 AM
Really?
-

Gandhiji got up from his casket and raised his hand then said "I bear no respite for even those that do harm to me, remember oh children of India, forgiveness is the way".:p

Kumar_Das
16 December 2012, 04:24 AM
I can say Gandhi never forgives British Rule, he only wanted to use peaceful movement because, and this made British Administration in difficulty.

About Mahatma Godse, he did what he has to do. I don't know why he was not forgiven by the court either, yes when the same murderer British officers were leaving India, nobody tried to punish them, all because of Congress.


Pretty much. Gandhiji was still necessary, we owe our freedom to him to a large degree.:)

Anirudh
17 December 2012, 05:59 AM
I can't judge whether M K Gandhi is a Mahaatma or not as I haven't read more about him. All I knew about him is through the pro + anti MK media.

But I wonder why he expected ONLY Hindus to mellow down even when they were not at fault?

Members who know more about MK and have read about him from the authentic sources can throw light.

Based on the information I am exposed to, I am with an opinion that MK Gandhi gave us a heavy dose of tolerance via his version of Ahimsa. Other wise why have we given up our basic right to fight against slavery and atrocities?

Moreover, with skyrocketing corruption post 15th August 1947 I can't believe that we are Independent and an Aam Aadmi can get free fair unbiased justice.