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yajvan
03 April 2011, 09:59 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

A burning of the koran occurred on March 20th, in the USA. What then occured some days later Afghans took to the streets
(in Afghanistan) .Twenty people were killed including United Nations employees.


Now I thought to myself what if someone burned the veda's ?

I think my 1st thought would be of disappointment. Yet I would also think, they really believe they burned the veda-s?
They burned paper and ink and they used agni that owns the veda-s to do it!


Burning a group's scriptures is uncalled for no doubt, but killing people in return is excessive and socially inept as I see it.

As I see it both sides waddle and splash in ignorance - their ego has been bruised. One side thinks you can burn ideas,
and the other side thinks you can kill that action from afar.

praṇām

PARAM
03 April 2011, 10:36 AM
Islam teaches violence for everything, that was not a surprise.

Anti Hindus are always out to disrupt Hinduism, but in return no Hindu kills them, still this should not be supported we need to be taught against Adharm.

Believer
03 April 2011, 10:52 AM
Leaving aside the demerits/provocation/goal of this sordid affair, the complete script of the events states that it was a demonstration by the citizens, which was infiltrated by taliban radicals. These jehadis with their personal agenda, were the ones who carried out the murders.

I am sure the reaction from the ceremonial attempted 'burning of ideas' in Florida was anticipated, and fire was lit with the intention of further demonstrating the violent nature of the other side. This was to educate and galvanize the masses against going soft on an impending peril of monumental proportions. Europe is in the process of being taken over; America is the last frontier. If there is no awakening to the threat, the final chapter will be written with the ceremonial burning of everything non-Islamic.
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Rationalist
03 April 2011, 11:10 AM
Leaving aside the demerits/provocation/goal of this sordid affair, the complete script of the events states that it was a demonstration by the citizens, which was infiltrated by taliban radicals. These jehadis with their personal agenda, were the ones who carried out the murders.

I am sure the reaction from the ceremonial attempted 'burning of ideas' in Florida was anticipated, and fire was lit with the intention of further demonstrating the violent nature of the other side. This was to educate and galvanize the masses against going soft on an impending peril of monumental proportions. Europe is in the process of being taken over; America is the last frontier. If there is no awakening to the threat, the final chapter will be written with the ceremonial burning of everything non-Islamic.

We shouldn't even care.

The West has conquered, raped, and looted other cultures and civilizations and deprived them of their dignity and humanity.

Don't endeavor to stop this process. The West has accrued a horrible Karma that is now biting them back in the ass.

It is time for the East to rise once again. I will not shed even a tear when the West tears itself apart into pieces.

Truth always triumphs.

Adhvagat
03 April 2011, 11:13 AM
Now I thought to myself what if someone burned the veda's ?

I think my 1st thought would be of disappointment. Yet I would also think, they really believe they burned the veda-s?
They burned paper and ink and they used agni that owns the veda-s to do it!

If they burned the Vedas all I'd say would be SVAHA! :D

Sahasranama
03 April 2011, 11:18 AM
If they burned the Vedas all I'd say was SVAHA! :D

With the availability of the printing press and digital storage facilities this will not be a problem, but in history the muslims have destroyed a lot of literature from India by burning down libraries. Some smart Hindus kept pages of the koran hidden between the Hindu texts, so that the muslims would not burn them down. In the west though muslims have saved a lot of literature from the Christians, a lot of classical western literature would not be available if it wasn't for the arabics who copied them. The Christians had already destroyed many books on philosophy and mathematics.

Believer
03 April 2011, 11:26 AM
As much as the West/Xitianity have damaged other cultures/religions/countries in the past, there is no denying that if the West falls to Islam, no other religion/philosophy would survive. Hinduism/India as the lone survivor, will be obliterated in no time. The only thing 'rising from the East' will be a crescent moon and every head will be turning to Mecca for prayers. West is the last buffer between Islam and a general sense of sanity. Carrying hatred towards the West/Xitianity to the extent of self annihilation is short sighted. Please broaden your horizons and think globally, not just from the perspective of your personal castle, your own state or your own country. Things don't happen in isolation. Everything is interconnected. Think about the long term scenarios, not just today. A much more mature/calm/rational thinking is expected from a 'Rationalist' ;), not just an emotional anti-West tirade!
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http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html
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Sahasranama
03 April 2011, 12:01 PM
pictures removed for security reasons

Adhvagat
03 April 2011, 12:04 PM
One more thing the west imported from India? :p

Sahasranama
03 April 2011, 12:23 PM
Library burning was done in Alexandria first by the Christians and later in Nalananda by the Muslims, so it's the other way around. These Indians adopted this behavior from the west. Although the severity cannot be compared, the libraries of Alexandria and the Indian libraries including the university of Nalanda had rare texts that will never be recollected. I do think that the world has earned the right to burn korans, it's a very innocent form of revenge for what destruction Islam has brought on this planet earth.

yajvan
03 April 2011, 01:12 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


A burning of the koran occurred on March 20th, in the USA. What then occured some days later Afghans took to the streets
(in Afghanistan) .Twenty people were killed including United Nations employees.
What I find uncanny is how easily these people are provoked and they lose all composure. They then go against their own teachings and kill.

praṇām

sanjaya
03 April 2011, 01:19 PM
While I have no love for Islam, I don't think it's a good idea to burn any book. Just look at the Hindus in Sahasranama's photos. To me they don't seem to be behaving rationally; angry mobs never do. Also keep in mind that the same people who burned the Quran would probably be attacking Hindus if Muslims weren't around to act as a punching bag. To them, all foreign-looking people are the same.

In regards to the UN soldier deaths in Afghanistan, it goes without saying that burning a book doesn't justify killing anyone.

Sahasranama
03 April 2011, 01:26 PM
While I have no love for Islam, I don't think it's a good idea to burn any book. Just look at the Hindus in Sahasranama's photos. To me they don't seem to be behaving rationally; angry mobs never do. Also keep in mind that the same people who burned the Quran would probably be attacking Hindus if Muslims weren't around to act as a punching bag. To them, all foreign-looking people are the same.

In regards to the UN soldier deaths in Afghanistan, it goes without saying that burning a book doesn't justify killing anyone.

If you read these comments a lot of people posting there actually think that these are muslims burning the Bible. They really do not know how to distinguish between Muslims and Hindus.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/are-you-for-burning-the-evil-quran/question-1198915/

Adhvagat
03 April 2011, 01:32 PM
Library burning was done in Alexandria first by the Christians and later in Nalananda by the Muslims, so it's the other way around. These Indians adopted this behavior from the west. Although the severity cannot be compared, the libraries of Alexandria and the Indian libraries including the university of Nalanda had rare texts that will never be recollected. I do think that the world has earned the right to burn korans, it's a very innocent form of revenge for what destruction Islam has brought on this planet earth.

Sahasra, you're taking me way to seriously mate.

All in all, to see a hindu having a childish attitude like burning a book only makes me sad. Whatever happened to the high level philosophy? That's the sharpest of swords IMO.

Ganeshprasad
03 April 2011, 02:34 PM
Panam


hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté




Now I thought to myself what if someone burned the veda's ?

I think my 1st thought would be of disappointment. Yet I would also think, they really believe they burned the veda-s?

Here is the difference armed with the knowledge that Vedas are eternal then it would be foolish to get worked up about it, yes it would be sad act but an ignorant act, i would only pity those who indulge in this foolish act.

We can see those who perpetuate and engage in burning books, their only aim is to incite, it can only work if one is ignorant of their knowledge, their faith, their Dharma. it only shows their insecurity in their belief.

Jai Shree Krishna

Ramakrishna
03 April 2011, 03:30 PM
Namaste,

From a purely pragmatic point of view, I support a person's right to burn any book. That being said, it is a very dumb thing to do, especially when it is done solely to provoke people, which were the intentions of those fundamentalist Christians who burned the Koran. Islam has caused a lot of destruction and damage to the world, but like Pietro, I don't think Hindus should engage in Koran burning. We are better than that, and we don't need to go looking for any sort of revenge or anything. Leave that to the law of karma. On a side note, I do find it funny how Muslims brand Hindus and others as "idolaters", yet they literally take up arms when someone burns a book.

Jai Sri Ram

sanjaya
03 April 2011, 04:13 PM
If you read these comments a lot of people posting there actually think that these are muslims burning the Bible. They really do not know how to distinguish between Muslims and Hindus.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/are-you-for-burning-the-evil-quran/question-1198915/

Yes, I think this illustrates the problem I mentioned. Christians detest non-Americans in general; the Christian West has exchanged its old racial superiority for a sort of cultural superiority. It's easy to attack Islam because of all the terrorist activity. But Christians have the same level of fundamental hatred for Hindus. I think they would see us as no different than the Muslims.

I'm not going to say that Hindus and Muslims have any common cause. After all, Muslims in India are out to get Hindus too. But we probably shouldn't be supportive of Koran burning.

yajvan
03 April 2011, 05:22 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté sanjaya


But Christians have the same level of fundamental hatred for Hindus. I think they would see us as no different than the Muslims.


I am sure you have a reason for suggesting this, yet I have not experienced this in any substantial manner in the USA. My reference point is all the companies I have worked for across the USA hired Hindu's on multiple levels ( engineering, management, sales, etc). These employers/hiring managers where Christian-based people. I never heard a negative word about a Hindu during his/her employment.

Perhaps this may occur in other segments of business or education but has not been part of my work experience in 40 yrs.

praṇām

yajvan
03 April 2011, 05:36 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



... yet I have not experienced this in any substantial manner in the USA.


Now that said, I have experienced and viewed people that were Christians that hated - yet they were equal opportunity haters. They hated just about every one that did not look or act like themselves. Can you then say it is a Christian thing ? Because they too hated other Christians that did not think or believe as they did.

I'd suggest it is a condition of being mal-adjusted with an imbalance in the 3 guna-s - excessive tamas and rajas.
praṇām

yajvan
03 April 2011, 08:18 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté




What I find uncanny is how easily these people are provoked and they lose all composure. They then go against their own teachings and kill.


Whoever suppresseth his anger, when he hath in his power to show it, God will give him great reward.... Muhammad

'Give me advice' said someone. Muhammad said, 'Be not angry.'

praṇām

Believer
03 April 2011, 08:44 PM
They really do not know how to distinguish between Muslims and Hindus.
If you look at the picture closely, they are all brown and there is a guy with a talibani-like turban and long facial hair in the background. They are even carrying a cloth hanging on their shoulders which they will wrap on their heads in the Arab style, once they get done with the burning. I think they are muslims burning the bible. ;)


....I don't think it's a good idea to burn any book.
In America that I know of, there is a company which takes orders to print the picture of any US president, any world leader, any sacred deities, or anything else on a roll of toilet paper for a fee. Some people protest by burning all kind of things including the religious books and flags. We may not like it and consider such activities to be uncivil, but different people have differing opinions about what they should be able to do. I would give them a long rope and hope that they would hang themselves with it. But the reaction of a group to retaliate against the burning of a book by murdering people is reprehensible. Enough said on that subject!

TheOne
04 April 2011, 06:53 PM
Burning of books is barbaric in my opinion. Should we burn the Qur'an? No. Should we burn the Bible? No. Should we burn Mein Kamph? No.

Why? Because these books contain knowledge and opinions. The only way to prevent another Hitler is to know what he talked about. The only way to know what a Muslim believes in really, is to read the Qur'an.

I think the French philosopher Voltaire said it best when he said "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it". We may hate Islam and it's teachings but we must remember that it's a short step from being the "victim of Islamization" to the leader in a genocide.

Look at Serbia. Their treating of Albanian Muslims was horrid and one of the worst genocides in recent history. All under the guise of cultural and religious superiority.

yajvan
04 April 2011, 07:09 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


The only way to know what a Muslim believes in really, is to read the Qur'an.

I think you made some reasonable points. For me I look at it slightly differently...
look to one's actions and you will know what they believe because they are putting their beliefs into action.


praṇām

TheOne
04 April 2011, 07:48 PM
I agree, to look at an actions to see what THEY believe in but you can't tell what Islam is all about by looking at terrorists actions. There are Christian terrorists, hindu terrorists, and many others. But those actions cannot be taken as proof of Christianity promoting hatred. One must read the bible and know Christian thought to be able to say that Christianity promotes hatred.

Rationalist
04 April 2011, 10:05 PM
I agree, to look at an actions to see what THEY believe in but you can't tell what Islam is all about by looking at terrorists actions. There are Christian terrorists, hindu terrorists, and many others. But those actions cannot be taken as proof of Christianity promoting hatred. One must read the bible and know Christian thought to be able to say that Christianity promotes hatred.

And by observing how true Christians, Christians who follow the Bible to heart, act. True Christians promote supremacy and hatred because Christianity deems itself to be the only true faith in the world.

The same goes for Islam.

This is why Christians and Muslims have been the most intolerant, hateful, bigoted, and violent people in history.

BryonMorrigan
05 April 2011, 07:17 AM
1. Worrying about Islam "defeating" the West is unnecessary. The majority of the USA is as fundamentally Christian as the populations of countries like Iraq and Afghanistan are Muslim. When the USA conquered those countries, did the population suddenly start converting to Christianity? Did the Muslims ever "give up?" Of course not. Muslims in America are a tiny population of about 1.3 million, or 0.4 % of the population. In contrast, Hindus are almost 1.5 million, or 0.5 % of the population. Does anyone worry about Hindus taking over the USA? No. Both are equally "likely" at the moment.

Besides, Exclusivist Monotheism (there is only one "true" religion...and everyone else is worshiping "the devil"...) can only become the dominant religion in a country through force. Once the force is removed, support lessens. Such religions can never account for more than about 50% of the population without coercion, or at least the "tradition" gained from coercion. That is why a country like the USA, now that Christianity is no longer enforced by coercion...is steadily dropping in terms of percentage of Christians. The idea that Islam could then "take over" such a place is absurd, and does not take into account the REASON that Christianity is slipping. The ONLY way to ensure that religions like Christianity and Islam do not "take over," is to ensure FREEDOM OF RELIGION. In a state where freedom of religion is guaranteed...and actually practiced...religious totalitarianism can never succeed, but those kinds of religions can only grow beyond a certain percentage BY FORCE.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/r23235jxbuuc7z7_ywneqq.gif

Historically, after more than 300 years, Christians in the Roman Empire accounted for still less than 10% of the population, and had reached a "standstill." The only reason it became the dominant religion was because the Christian Emperors made it the "state religion" and executed anyone who didn't convert. It's the only way a religion like that can become dominant.

2. When you support burning the Qu'ran, you are helping Christianity retain its dominance as the primary religion in the USA (or whatever country it occurred in). It's really no different than if Muslims were supporting the actions of Christian missionaries in India. The only way to ensure religious freedom for Hindus...is to support religious freedom for everyone. If you make bedfellows with the anti-Muslim Christians, it is no better than making bedfellows with the anti-Christian Muslims. We're better than BOTH SIDES in that conflict, and should always take the "high ground" by supporting religious freedom...not supporting one side over another simply because one side is "worse" than the other in terms of modern actions. Let the Christians bring their inquisitions and crusades back, and we all suffer.

In conclusion, I don't care if they burn one Qu'ran, or a million. The book is no better or worse than the Christian bible (and anyone who says otherwise hasn't read both of them). Blasphemy, particularly when intended to assert the "supremacy" of one religion over another, should be mocked and ridiculed as the actions of people who are insecure with their religious beliefs. In short: Denounce the Qu'ran burners...and ALSO denounce those who kill because of the burning.

That is the moral and ethical position that I believe Hindus should take, and I don't think I have to quote scripture to back me up...because I think it's fairly self-evident that it will.

TheOne
05 April 2011, 05:42 PM
And by observing how true Christians, Christians who follow the Bible to heart, act. True Christians promote supremacy and hatred because Christianity deems itself to be the only true faith in the world.

The same goes for Islam.

This is why Christians and Muslims have been the most intolerant, hateful, bigoted, and violent people in history.


I agree, but you can't judge all Christians based on the actions of a few without reading their scriptures. Once you read their scriptures you will realize the "radical few" are the only "true" followers of the religion.

Sahasranama
05 April 2011, 09:35 PM
Great points, Bryon. Right wing politicians in the west have an irrational fear (or use this fear to gain votes) that Islam is going to take over the west. The concern of Hindus is religious freedom while the concern of conservative Christians is to shove Christianity down our throats through political power.

sm78
06 April 2011, 01:23 AM
In short: Denounce the Qu'ran burners...and ALSO denounce those who kill because of the burning.

You are right from the moral and espouse the correct view point. Also from a political angle (niti), our niti shastra says - "one should NEVER invite another enemy to defeat a known enemy" - so siding with Christians can be suicidal (this is the story of medieval India, whose kings due to domestic enmity literally invited all the Muslim plunderer's to India, e.g Kashi Raj invited Md Ghori to destroy rising Prithiviraj - and the rest is history).

But the danger of Islam should never be undermined - liberals often in order to deny the right conservative position, fall to the other extreme and openly support conservative Islam, ironically for in name of religious freedom. That is very dangerous IMO.

Sahasranama
06 April 2011, 09:46 AM
But the danger of Islam should never be undermined - liberals often in order to deny the right conservative position, fall to the other extreme and openly support conservative Islam, ironically for in name of religious freedom. That is very dangerous IMO.

Yes, but in the west mostly the politicians are debating about muslim girls wearing head clothes. This is where their attention is going, not on the important stuff.

astrostudent
06 April 2011, 10:39 AM
Funny thing is, the west controls 80% of the world's capital, they can paralyze any nation's economy with sanctions, the NATO is powerful enough to invade militarily with or without UN approval, one walmart could make hundreds of local industries vanish, and so on and so forth.

And yet, we Indians believe that the danger is from Islam.

sanjaya
06 April 2011, 02:48 PM
Funny thing is, the west controls 80% of the world's capital, they can paralyze any nation's economy with sanctions, the NATO is powerful enough to invade militarily with or without UN approval, one walmart could make hundreds of local industries vanish, and so on and so forth.

And yet, we Indians believe that the danger is from Islam.

This is true, but the West in general is currently considered an economic and military ally of India. Really the problem with the West is the Christians, and Christian politicians haven't yet decided to use their political power against India. I imagine if they really wanted to, Western Christians could use their governments to send missionaries pouring into India, but they haven't done so current. Muslims, on the other hand, live in India and commit acts of violence against Indians. I think we're right to say that we're in danger from Islam.

Again, not to minimize the threat of Christianity, but I think that Christians can be at least somewhat separated from "the West" as a political entity.

Believer
06 April 2011, 09:28 PM
And yet, we Indians believe that the danger is from Islam.
This is not the first time that a MUSLIM/muslim sympathizer visitor to the forum has tried to influence the thinking of this group, and it will not be the last. But nice try!

astrostudent
06 April 2011, 10:12 PM
This is not the first time that a MUSLIM/muslim sympathizer visitor to the forum has tried to influence the thinking of this group, and it will not be the last. But nice try!

Yup, anybody who says the west is powerful is a Muslim sympathizer. Great logic!

astrostudent
06 April 2011, 10:22 PM
This is true, but the West in general is currently considered an economic and military ally of India. Really the problem with the West is the Christians, and Christian politicians haven't yet decided to use their political power against India. I imagine if they really wanted to, Western Christians could use their governments to send missionaries pouring into India, but they haven't done so current. Muslims, on the other hand, live in India and commit acts of violence against Indians. I think we're right to say that we're in danger from Islam.

Again, not to minimize the threat of Christianity, but I think that Christians can be at least somewhat separated from "the West" as a political entity.

I am talking about the economic/military angle, not religious. The west is an 'ally' because there is a subservient govt. in India, selling out its business interests. Imagine a good, clean govt. coming to power in India, developing local industries (and making farmers and local manufacturers self-sufficient)? That would pose a direct threat to western business interests, and then you'll see this ally's darker side.

Besides, the war on terrorism by the west has killed more people than terrorism itself, not to mention the blatant human rights abuse in Guantanamo Bay and such.

But of course, all this can be conveniently brushed aside by saying Muslims had it coming, their countries deserve to be invaded, they're bad, bad terrorists etc. etc. Yet the truth is, the only problem from the Muslims are coming from the extremists and not from the mainstream. On the other hand, the things the west does are all official, those are decisions (even decisions to wage illegal wars) made by elected representatives themselves.

So who really is more dangerous to world peace and stability? Maybe, it's time we started thinking about these issues as human beings and not merely assume that anything 'anti-Muslim' is right.

Believer
07 April 2011, 01:16 AM
Yup, anybody who says the west is powerful is a Muslim sympathizer. Great logic!
Your love for Islam is coming through loud and clear!
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astrostudent
07 April 2011, 02:14 AM
Your love for Islam is coming through loud and clear!
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Yes, Believer, you got me. I am talking about the west, which is proof that I love Islam.:rolleyes: As I said earlier, great logic.

Sahasranama
07 April 2011, 02:33 AM
Astro, you show the ignorance of international affairs that many westerners have. Go tell the Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh who get murdered by muslims that Islam is not a treat. Here in the Netherlands we have one politician, Geert Wilders, who is particulairy anti-Islam, but when it comes to sending troops to fight terrorism, he opposes it. When fugatives of terrorist countries come to seek refuge, he wants to sent them back so that they can get hanged by Islamic government. He is mostly concerned about forbidding muslim girls to wearing headclothes. So anti-Islam in the west is sometimes a bit retarded, but whether you are pro-Islam or not, don't be ignorant of international affairs when you talk to Hindus about Islam. Read the posts made by Harjas Kaur to get educated: http://hindudharmaforums.com/search.php?searchid=187862

anirvan
07 April 2011, 03:07 AM
With the availability of the printing press and digital storage facilities this will not be a problem, but in history the muslims have destroyed a lot of literature from India by burning down libraries. Some smart Hindus kept pages of the koran hidden between the Hindu texts, so that the muslims would not burn them down. In the west though muslims have saved a lot of literature from the Christians, a lot of classical western literature would not be available if it wasn't for the arabics who copied them. The Christians had already destroyed many books on philosophy and mathematics.

Yes,its the tragic truth. whatever sanatandharma literature left to us now is like a tiny glass to a sea. more that 1.25 lakhs laya yoga, lakhs of other books on yoga,tantra which are invaluable property of humanism written by kind rishia are lost forever.

My gurudev has written when he got his yogiguru in dense forest,he took him in to a very secret Caves hidden by stones outsied. his guru shown many torned, old and very very important scriptures written on palm leaves hidden there in the hope that GOOD DAYS will come when this will return to society for there benefit.these were hidden by yogis to save from muslim invaders who has destroyed majority of such invaluable books and killed sadhakas.

What muslims has done to world,is irreparable and without that religion world would have been heaven today. but like human never bite dogs in return,we should not do such barbaric acts.

astrostudent
07 April 2011, 03:29 AM
Astro, you show the ignorance of international affairs that many westerners have. Go tell the Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh who get murdered by muslims that Islam is not a treat. Here in the Netherlands we have one politician, Geert Wilders, who is particulairy anti-Islam, but when it comes to sending troops to fight terrorism, he opposes it. When fugatives of terrorist countries come to seek refuge, he wants to sent them back so that they can get hanged by Islamic government. He is mostly concerned about forbidding muslim girls to wearing headclothes. So anti-Islam in the west is sometimes a bit retarded, but whether you are pro-Islam or not, don't be ignorant of international affairs when you talk to Hindus about Islam. Read the posts made by Harjas Kaur to get educated: http://hindudharmaforums.com/search.php?searchid=187862

You're absolutely right. The US has military bases in 50 odd nations, the top 5% controls most of the world's capital, NATO is a military powerhouse, western nations have started illegal wars etc. etc. But you're right: bearded mullahs in Afghan mountains are the greatest threat to humanity.:rolleyes:

Sahasranama
07 April 2011, 03:43 AM
You're absolutely right. The US has military bases in 50 odd nations, the top 5% controls most of the world's capital, NATO is a military powerhouse, western nations have started illegal wars etc. etc. But you're right: bearded mullahs in Afghan mountains are the greatest threat to humanity.:rolleyes:
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/beheaded_girl1.jpg

http://www.opinionbug.com/wp-images/christian_schoolgirls_beheaded_in_poso_2.jpg

astrostudent
07 April 2011, 03:56 AM
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/beheaded_girl1.jpg

And I can post graphic images of civilians getting tortured by the US forces. What's your point? There are extremists in the Islamic community (which I never denied,btw), but to call them the greatest threat would be inaccurate.

Sahasranama
07 April 2011, 04:03 AM
Do you know where this extremism is comming from. The answer is abrahamic monotheism whether it's Islam or Christianity. Both are dangerous treats to this earth.

pineblossom
07 April 2011, 04:31 AM
The response by a minority of Muslims has nothing to do with how wealthy the West is, or how many wars it is fighting, or anything to do with Christianity. The response is all about a culture of honour and shame.

It is the same with Sunny and Shia.

Until we understand the honour system prevalent in many countries we are really doing nothing constructive.

pineblossom
07 April 2011, 04:33 AM
Can you verify the photograph. To me it looks like it has been manipulated.

Sahasranama
07 April 2011, 04:42 AM
Can you verify the photograph. To me it looks like it has been manipulated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Indonesian_beheadings_of_Christian_girls

sm78
07 April 2011, 05:20 AM
You're absolutely right. The US has military bases in 50 odd nations, the top 5% controls most of the world's capital, NATO is a military powerhouse, western nations have started illegal wars etc. etc. But you're right: bearded mullahs in Afghan mountains are the greatest threat to humanity.:rolleyes:

Mullah threat is not just economical, but threats basic human, civil, liberty, religious rights enjoyed by human beings in decent society.

China is all set to eclipse west's economic and political clout. Nobody stops India to follow the example - except ourselves, and the corrupt, spineless creatures we elect as our leaders.

The two are completely different issues, which cannot be compared in the right mind.

Adhvagat
07 April 2011, 07:44 AM
Do you know where this extremism is comming from. The answer is abrahamic monotheism whether it's Islam or Christianity. Both are dangerous treats to this earth.

Bingo.

astrostudent
07 April 2011, 08:51 AM
Mullah threat is not just economical, but threats basic human, civil, liberty, religious rights enjoyed by human beings in decent society.

The west has a such a huge military budget that they could buy a few countries with it. This is the sheer depth and magnitude of their threat. What can a bunch of mullahs do apart from inciting a mob or issuing empty threats or organizing some random violence at a bus stop?

It seems as if some people are so consumed with hatred for the Muslims that they fail to recognize anybody else as a genuine threat to world peace.

Sahasranama
07 April 2011, 09:37 AM
What can a bunch of mullahs do apart from inciting a mob or issuing empty threats or organizing some random violence at a bus stop?

Murdering of kashmiri pandits and systematically eliminating Hindus from all muslim areas that were previously Hindu are all empty treats? Do you even read the forums, just because there is hardly any media attention for these issues doesn't make them less REAL.


It seems as if some people are so consumed with hatred for the Muslims that they fail to recognize anybody else as a genuine threat to world peace.When it comes to politics, we have often enough discussed Christianity on this forum as a treat to basic human rights, including pluralism. We have also discussed westernisation of Hinduism, corroption in Indian politicians and hypocracy of certain modern day saints. The teachings of Hindu Dharma are valuable to this earth, but there are politically and religiously motivated forces trying to break Hinduism. Don't act like a Miss America contestant and educate yourself before talking of world peace. Islamic terrorism is happening right now all over South-East Asia and in Africa, but the western media is too hung up on giving a positive representation of Islam that they don't show terrorist activities unless it directly affects the western world. These mullahs don't just show up on the news screaming in arabic.

sanjaya
07 April 2011, 09:43 AM
I am talking about the economic/military angle, not religious. The west is an 'ally' because there is a subservient govt. in India, selling out its business interests. Imagine a good, clean govt. coming to power in India, developing local industries (and making farmers and local manufacturers self-sufficient)? That would pose a direct threat to western business interests, and then you'll see this ally's darker side.

Actually I have to say that this is a good point. I wouldn't be too surprised if the West had some role in the chaos and corruption of India's government.


Besides, the war on terrorism by the west has killed more people than terrorism itself, not to mention the blatant human rights abuse in Guantanamo Bay and such.

But of course, all this can be conveniently brushed aside by saying Muslims had it coming, their countries deserve to be invaded, they're bad, bad terrorists etc. etc. Yet the truth is, the only problem from the Muslims are coming from the extremists and not from the mainstream. On the other hand, the things the west does are all official, those are decisions (even decisions to wage illegal wars) made by elected representatives themselves.

So who really is more dangerous to world peace and stability? Maybe, it's time we started thinking about these issues as human beings and not merely assume that anything 'anti-Muslim' is right.

I myself have said that our enemy's enemy isn't our friend (usually in response to claims that atheists or so-called 'pagans' in the West are a Hindu's natural ally). But I don't think this makes Islam a good thing. Islam and Christianity are both enemies of Hinduism, despite that they also fight amongst themselves.

astrostudent
07 April 2011, 09:57 AM
But I don't think this makes Islam a good thing. Islam and Christianity are both enemies of Hinduism, despite that they also fight amongst themselves.

Do you mean Islam/Christianity as a set of ideas, or do you specifically mean the actions of extremists? I just want to know whether you have a problem with the theology itself or only with the actions of extremists.

BryonMorrigan
07 April 2011, 10:13 AM
I think it all comes down to national interests and regional issues. In the USA, Islam is almost nonexistent, and is a very minor "threat" in terms of terrorism or religious freedom.

The USA supports Pakistan militarily, because they need Pakistan for the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, the half-hearted attempt to destroy Al Qaeda, and because US support of the country helps to deter an even WORSE Islamic Fundamentalist government.

The USA SHOULD support India, which is far more democratic and even "Western" than any other country in the region, but unfortunately, the primary issue is simply OIL.

American Christian groups also funnel money into missionary and Christian Terrorist activity throughout India, but this is also where regional issues come into play. If you live in the Northeast of India, then Christian groups like the NFLT and NSCN are going to be of far more importance...whereas someone living near J&K or in one of the major cities is going to be much more worried about Islamic terrorists. Things can be quite different between regions separated by more than 2000 kilometers. In European distance terms, it's like comparing the situation between Paris, France, and Kiev, Russia!

At the end of the day, you're still better off (IMNSHO) taking the "moral high ground" and just supporting religious freedom (and EQUALITY...as opposed to the current pseudo-secular position in India) and being opposed to Totalitarianism in all forms.

Obelisk
07 April 2011, 10:17 AM
I wonder who thinks that atheists are a Hindu's natural ally. Once in one of the western forums I visit, a religion-related topic happened to come up and when I participated, one of the atheists sarcastically asked me if I read the Bible everyday. When I told him I was a Hindu, the next comment was "Oh. So, you read the Vedas then, eh?". Apparently there's no difference between the two over there; they're both the greatest threat to humanity. :D

Speaking of the book-burning, I read about it in the newspaper, and I think it's disgraceful. But it really isn't something to retaliate violently too. I would be offended if someone burned Hindu texts in front of me, but I'd also remember that at best, it's only a display of weakness on their part. Burning a mass of paper and ink can't affect the faith in the hearts of thousands of people.

Adhvagat
07 April 2011, 10:37 AM
I wonder who thinks that atheists are a Hindu's natural ally. Once in one of the western forums I visit, a religion-related topic happened to come up and when I participated, one of the atheists sarcastically asked me if I read the Bible everyday. When I told him I was a Hindu, the next comment was "Oh. So, you read the Vedas then, eh?". Apparently there's no difference between the two over there; they're both the greatest threat to humanity.

We read the vedas and say hallelujah to Veeshnus on our hindu churches! Amen! :D

Believer
07 April 2011, 11:29 AM
And I can post graphic images of civilians getting tortured by the US forces. What's your point? There are extremists in the Islamic community (which I never denied,btw), but to call them the greatest threat would be inaccurate.

The mullah is defending Islam with all his might while putting down America, and then he has the guts to deny that he himself is an Islamic terrorist????

NayaSurya
07 April 2011, 11:57 AM
I had vowed to myself to leave the forum and never return. Not because I was so naive and saw astrostudent as a child who had not lived enough to know the Truth, instead of what he was...which was muslim.

Not because of this, as I should always see the good before jumping to conclusion of bad and ill will.

But, because that even though this one refers to children being beheaded as "Random bus stop violence"...he claimed himself indian...and for this he is given wide berth and the west bashing insues.

You all here do understand that when an Eastern Indian on this forum says nasty things about the "all evil west" they are not only talking about me and my children...but you and yours (Western Indians) as well.

Now, while this shouldn't surprise me nor make me upset. I can not lie that for my children it makes me very very sad.

That they would stumble one day upon this forum....and instead of be greeted warmly they would see these words of Beloved Portions and know that they are the filth of this realm. Just by location of their spawning!

Where ever you have spawned, oh Beloved Portions...do you not know??? You are Divine.

Even this one, so deeply rooted in darkness.

Do not worry about making a judgement on Islam, it is not a religion. Do all of you become critic of governments and their policy? This is no different.

Islam is not a religion, it is like communism..a way for the whole society to behave. They force girls to stay home, get no education and when schools open and secretly try to teach little girls...they are stoned or beheaded. It is not a religion...it is a cult of violence.

I can sit here on this hill all day and never have them darken my door...the ones so low below the mullah dara that they have no hope to become aware of this.

Leave this muslim in peace, remove him so that he is not harmed by these ideas which are so far from his understanding and become once again at peace so that learning can happen.

Beloved Yajvan say...we betray what our beliefs are by our words.

May Shiva stand as witness...that in my heart all of you were no less than Beloved.

May Shiva make the day come when my offspring will not have such heartbreak as I do now.

Om Namah Shivaya...

astrostudent
07 April 2011, 12:29 PM
Might I remind everyone that I never once attacked western people, only the western governments and corporations? Is that also prohibited in a Hindu forum? Must I be a cheerleader for western politicians in order to participate in a Hindu forum?

Believer
07 April 2011, 12:39 PM
Might I remind everyone that I never once attacked western people, only the western governments and corporations? Is that also prohibited in a Hindu forum? Must I be a cheerleader for western politicians in order to participate in a Hindu forum?
That is another muslim trait: Deny Deny, Deny; even when you are caught with your pants down.

astrostudent
07 April 2011, 12:42 PM
That is another muslim trait: Deny Deny, Deny; even when you are caught with your pants down.

What are you talking about? Can you show me one post of mine where I've attacked people?

Rationalist
07 April 2011, 06:28 PM
Believer, please stop accusing astronaut of being a Pusslim. He has already displayed more logic in a few posts than a Muslim will ever do in his lifetime.

Besides, the real threat is from Abrahamic religions.

The greatest threat comes from Christianity.

I would much rather die a Hindu (killed by Muslim fanatics) than turn into a mockery of what I once was (converted).

muslim
07 April 2011, 09:56 PM
Burn the koran? It's mindless stupidity. But who cares, it's just a book made of paper with some ink on it. Burn away.

pineblossom
08 April 2011, 03:06 AM
Sahasranama

You have edited your post since I asked my question and added the photograph of the girls and then responded to my post with reference to your added photograph.

Not very honest.

You can hardly claim the high moral ground when you undertake the same manipulation as you claim by others.

The original photograph of the severed head from the body I take then as a fake.

Sahasranama
08 April 2011, 03:10 AM
It's a picture of the same scene as you can see on the table the girls are laying on. I just added more source material. In total there were three girls beheaded. The medical staff is reattaching the heads on the second picture as you can see.

pineblossom
08 April 2011, 03:19 AM
Thank you.

wundermonk
08 April 2011, 04:58 AM
I just want to know whether you have a problem with the theology itself or only with the actions of extremists.
Any theology that divides the world into believers and non-believers and condemns the latter to everlasting hellfire for not accepting the jealous God as the one and only true God is extremist.

Islam fits this bill perfectly. The source of Islamic terror is "LaIlahailAllah MohammedRasoolAllah".

satay
08 April 2011, 01:58 PM
Admin Note

Thread under review.