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devotee
04 April 2011, 06:24 AM
Namaste friends,

Everyone says that God loves us. I was wondering how many of us feel the love of God without getting any opportunity to doubt His love towards us.

How many of us believe that it is just a wishful thinking ? What do you think ??

Please share your experience with God with me, if you don't mind. :)

OM

Onkara
04 April 2011, 06:46 AM
Nice, positive topic, Devoteeji :)
I have noticed that we are more likely to report experiencing love in the way things happens to us and around us. Perhaps we have good healthy, wealth or opportunities that others are not so fortunate to be able to report. In a way this is love, like a gift, but it is vulnerable to change. Whilst we consider this love as something given, it can also be experienced as something which could be withdrawn.

However the scriptures and guru have helped me to assert that there is a stronger love within me (us). This love outweighs the fortune and misfortune that may happen to me (as a person/jIva). I am certain whether I experience misfortune or fortune that this inner love would not change. I don’t need to believe it or wish for it, it is beyond belief or choice. Nor do I doubt that it isn’t there for others too because it is not separable from our being. This I would say is divine love.

anirvan
04 April 2011, 08:07 AM
its really tough question and you will certainly not get uniform answer. its because different peoples are undergoing different phases of life. but it has a very strong effect on the course of our spiritual path,specifically path of devotion.

i found this dilemma in the life of my Gurudev. in his childhood he was taught that GOD IS MERCIFUL,FULL OF LOVE. subsequently his dearest mother died at early age.he prayed god silently with hidden tears till adulthood,but couldn"t saw his mother again. then he got his mother"s love from his divine wife which lasted few years as she also died untimely. then he suddenly started questioning the childhood wisdom of GOD"S merciful nature.

His question was should we call God as MERCIFUL(dayaban) ? OR JUDGE(nyaya data) ??

Since we get reward or punishment according to our Karma,there is not a single mistake we can escape punishment. so where is the mercy of God,where is his love,so we will falsely praise him as merciful,loving us...so and so...

After which his Mahasadhna started and after nirvikalpa samadhi of vedanta he immersed in Bhava sadhna(devotion). after which he realized that God is indeed most merciful and greatest lover of Mankind.

But again he has advised that its not always good if we regard him as merciful,but rather we should regard him as JUDGE as we may start Doubt in him while undergoing difficult time of life. particularly in earlier stage of Sadhna,while our faith on him is not rock solid,its a better way to be afraid of him as A JUDGE.

sometimes such vicious tragic phases comes in life that it can convert a person permanently atheist and turn a person against God...which i personally seen in few instances.(they were so much pure devoted,but now even get irritated while hearing topic on God,but still they are nobel in their life).

only when our most samskar get dissolved,we become very close to god,we can fully understand his unconditional love for us.:) . we can"t scrutinize his love through materialistic sense. he loves us in the sense that he always want to set us free from maya,its illusion,its bondage and give us self-realization and divine love towards him.

His way of thinking and apparent punishment for us is beyond our intellect,so we unnecessarily blame god for our tragedy.

Jayaguru

Ganeshprasad
04 April 2011, 10:35 AM
Pranam Devotee and all

Yes this love, it would be hard to argue about it yet it is very difficult to perceive it. Only love that i can witness is that of mother, the unconditional love that flows from her.That is also his love, Gods love comes to us from different medium unfortunately we are blind to it, he tell us this world is full off misery yet we choose to remain here, despite that he remain in our heart and guides us.

But he is very impartial as we can see in BG 9

samo 'ham sarva-bhutesu
na me dvesyo 'sti na priyah
ye bhajanti tu mam bhaktya
mayi te tesu capy aham



I am present equally in all beings. There is no one hateful or dear to Me. But, those who worship Me with devotion, they are with Me and I am also with them. (9.29)

Jai Shree Krishna

Adhvagat
04 April 2011, 12:18 PM
Namaste friends,

Everyone says that God loves us. I was wondering how many of us feel the love of God without getting any opportunity to doubt His love towards us.

How many of us believe that it is just a wishful thinking ? What do you think ??

Please share your experience with God with me, if you don't mind. :)

OM

Can we, in our limited existence, witness in first the person the love of another? Do we have to be sure that (for example) our dear family members love us before loving them back? I personally don't.

In my experience, all I could feel at times was an espontaneous realization that my love for God is a natural emanation. If God is the smallest and the largest, can I NOT love him?

Om Tat Sat

smaranam
04 April 2011, 02:13 PM
Namaste

I may be a brat, but He loves me anyway.

The fact that my PrANanAth actually pulled me out of the material dessert - leaving the mundane behind, all silly worldly protocols behind - and has been with me all along - is a lot, oh my, is a bit too much. This alone can bring detachment if it has to.
The fact that He has reminded this soul of her eternality with Him is a bit too much. Love is too simple a word to describe it.

The fact that He has promised to never leave me, moreover, his assurance that He cannot, that i can hold Him back, is a bit too much...

Just turn around and He is there ! what more can there be ? Ups and downs of material world are our own karma, nothing to do with Him, yet He feels those with us - when He could very well be oblivious to it.

And considering His selfless ways - He is j u s t t o o m u c h. Feel guilty for making Him the cushion, the comfort, the shade, the shelter, resting place, but have realized that this is the only natural state of a living entity, and there is not much choice but to give in to the shade - His premamayi chhAyA (loving shade). I feel like a spoilt brat - but looks like that is the jiva's natural state.

Tvam eva sarvam mama deva deva

Serving Your Lotus Feet is an illusion. I have nothing to give You my Dearest, but all to take, all nectar to drink.

TheOne
04 April 2011, 02:50 PM
It depends on what you mean by God and what you mean by love.


If by God you mean Brahman than that question is rather pointless as all is Brahman and Brahman no more loves us than hates us because it is pure consiousness.

As for a Ishvara loving us. Yes s/he loves us as regardless of what we do. But what does that matter to us? Yes, it should be joy to know that Ishvara loves us but it should be a greater joy to us to know that we can cultivate OUR love for Ishvara to become free of the gunas and samsara.

satay
04 April 2011, 04:05 PM
namaste,



How many of us believe that it is just a wishful thinking ? :)

OM

I think its all a wishful thinking. I have no evidence that God loves me. Maybe he does but I have no clue about that. :Cool:

Sahasranama
04 April 2011, 04:22 PM
Krishna says:

Samo'ham sarvabhooteshu na me dweshyo'sti na priyah;
ye bhajanti tu maam bhaktyaa mayi te teshu chaapyaham.

29. The same am I to all beings; to me there is none hateful or dear; but those who worship me with devotion are in me and I am also in them.

smaranam
04 April 2011, 04:57 PM
namaste,

I think its all a wishful thinking. I have no evidence that God loves me. Maybe he does but I have no clue about that. :Cool:

SatayJi, Y o u
h a v e
n o
i d e a

He loves you very much. Tears well in His eyes seeing you hold HDF like Govardhan :)

He says to Radha "Priye, did you see that ? HDF is only five now, but how dedicated to singing My Glories. HDF is all about Me ! It makes Me so "proud"
of them, and especially the one/s who started it. HDF is just like My five year old Bhakta PrahlAd"

:)

praNAm

satay
04 April 2011, 10:03 PM
namaste smaranam,


SatayJi, Y o u
h a v e
n o
i d e a

He loves you very much. praNAm

Now that I think about it, I must say that God has been taking care of me for decades, especially during last year possibly the toughest year for me personally. I guess one only takes care of others if there is love so I must conclude that God must love me. :)

Onkara
08 April 2011, 03:04 AM
What about you, Devotee, do you have an answer to share? :)


Namaste friends,

Everyone says that God loves us. I was wondering how many of us feel the love of God without getting any opportunity to doubt His love towards us.

How many of us believe that it is just a wishful thinking ? What do you think ??

Please share your experience with God with me, if you don't mind. :)

OM

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 03:22 AM
If we reject the idea of one all-powerful entity as God and accept only planetary deities, then the question wouldn't even arise.

Adhvagat
08 April 2011, 06:16 AM
If we reject the idea of one all-powerful entity as God and accept only planetary deities, then the question wouldn't even arise.

But everything would still be supported by Brahman.

devotee
08 April 2011, 06:55 AM
Namaste Onkara and all,


What about you, Devotee, do you have an answer to share? :)

When I asked this question, I was feeling depressed over some unfortunate event. So, this question was just to feel reassured of God's unfailing love through my spiritual friends on this forum ... as God is not manifest ... He surely manifests through people around us. So, thank you all, it served it purpose quite well. :)

As far as my answer to this question is, it is like this :

This delusive power of Maya is too strong & therefore we are strongly & very deeply attached to our worldly relative existence which is not our True Nature. When we think cooly & rationally we see God's love always with us like our mother's love but that is not always so. Sometimes, we fail to think rationally ... we get too emotional & want to feel the physical presence of God's love ... we fail to see that there is someone nearby through whom God is trying to extend help .... if not someone, then it can be rising of some thought which can take us away from our blues. All these help come from God but we fail to see that because we want to see something "supernatural" like appearing of God in front of us in physical form or whatever. We don't see that whatever happens to us is because of our own Karma as per the universal Laws of Karma .... & yet whenever we sincerely & ardently seek God's intervention ... we do get something in some form which helps us to overcome our problems. This can be only due to God's love. We commit errors and are liable to face hardship as a result of our own errors ... and yet God provides something to assist us so that we may be able to carry on by learning through our mistakes ... is the proof of His love.

I can't complain against God much. Whenever I have wanted anything very deperately I have somehow got that unless it was ridiculous to ask that thing & actually I could do better without that ... whenever I had very dificult times to face ... I have always got some unexpected help just by chance ( as it appears ) ... so, it is certainly God who keeps helping me & you all in some form or the other.

Thank you everyone for your contribution. It all has helped. :)

OM

NayaSurya
08 April 2011, 08:46 AM
With my heart so full of that Love today, I send it to you, Beloved Portion.

For the question, for the great Portion of Light You are<3

iksvakave
08 April 2011, 04:34 PM
My thoughts about God --- He EXITS. He loves us but he is also our teacher. Maybe it's me, but I always felt like christianity approaches god through love and God loves you is something you hear over and over again. With hindu culture I never grew up hearing God loves you. I think we approach God through devotion (bhakti) which is respect/high regard for God and that is how we hindus also treat god in the way we worship and practice our religion. I really do love the idea of a loving god though. Different religions have different looking glass for how they approach god. Ours is not always necessarily through love that is communicated and seen in christiany. So I could see why you would have that question. Ofcourse he loves you ---- have you ever taken aarati? :)

devotee
08 April 2011, 09:11 PM
Namaste NayaSurya,


With my heart so full of that Love today, I send it to you, Beloved Portion.

For the question, for the great Portion of Light You are<3

Thankfully, I read your post yesterday itself before you decided to edit to two sentences ! :)

Your husbands's love towards you is nothing but God working through him .... and your love towards your husband is also God working through you. This is what Yagnyavalkya says in BrihdaraNyaka Upanishad.

There is a film "Rab ne bana di jodi". In this film, the husband loves his wife very much even when the wife doesn't love him as he is not of the type she wants. However, when she understands how much her husband loves her, she weeps with love for her husband and asks, "How can you love me so much ? Why do you love me so much ?". The husband replies, "What shall I do ? I see God in you.".

What about, "I am gone" ? I hope no one hurt you here ? I wish that you continue posting here. You are such a very lovely spiritual friend. :)

OM

rkpande
09 April 2011, 12:57 AM
don't we see lord Vishnu lying on a bed of snake in the ocean of milk.
and lord Shiva in the state of samadhi.
Whether you worship vishnu or Shiva both of them are just silent witness.

rigid laws have been framed which even gods cant break and he does not have to interfere in the functioning of his creation often.
we have to live within those laws.

Love and hate are two faces of the same coin. thickness of the coin is avidya. eliminate the thickness and the coin vanishes.

Adhvagat
09 April 2011, 01:57 AM
Carl Gustav Jung theorized that the opposite of love is not hate, but instead power. Who does not love, tries to enforce superiority and who loves sets free.

Perhaps that's a nice way to understand why we are here in apparent separation of God. Perhaps God loves us so much he agreed on separating, even though he cheated a bit. :)

rkpande
10 April 2011, 12:13 PM
Jung?
eh!!:mad:
one got to have a Hindu mind to understand.
Perhaps we are discussing love of god and not a westerner.
God is just an arbitrator.
Karma.
No escaping.
laws are rigid as i said.
He doesn't hate... he doesn't love, he is an observer..
his laws take care of every thing.
he is just a witness.

sunyata07
10 April 2011, 03:09 PM
Namaste Devotee,

Thank you for starting the topic. I was going to post something like this, but I have beaten to it! :)

My thoughts are closest to Onkara's on this. I would like to think that my knowledge that God loves me comes from beyond the good things that have happened to me in my life. For those of us who are less spiritally advanced, it can be tempting to look at our fortunes and misfortunes and attribute these to God's blessing or condemning us. Of course, such understanding is severely limited and flawned. It does not take into account the role of karma in our lives, as well as intertwined karma. Many very good people can have terrible things happen to them, and for whatever reason they may take this as a sign that God hates them, is punishing them, etc. Some - no, many - have even shed their faith as a result of such disastrous happenings. A man may think to himself, "I'm a good person, I give to charity, I am honest and hard-working and have fasted, prayed to God dutifully - why then must I suffer these misfortunes?" IMO, such highly dualistic thinking has no place in Sanatana Dharma, although it is interesting to ask people what they think about it, certainly. My knowledge of the scriptures is not adequate enough to be able to quote from it, but from what I have been reading, all the messages of God's inborn nature seem to point to one assurance: He is Love, and nothing but.

As for me, I have no great tales or accounts of miracles to share with you my knowledge that God loves me. Even if that message had not been drilled into me ever since I was a child raised by a Catholic society, I would still know it in my heart, and I know I couldn't live not loving Him. My proof for His love for me is in the littlest of things. That I am sitting here breathing is proof that He loves me. That I can see the faces of my loved ones, and take in the grandeur of a sunset is proof that He loves me. That I have a voice to speak and sing with is proof that He loves me. That I am blessed to be able to walk with my own two legs on the sacred ground of my Mother Earth is proof that He loves. These are humble things, I admit. I am sure most people would laugh or roll their eyes if I told them these were my proofs for God's love. These are little things most people would not even remember or realise, such is their seeming insignificance. But for me, they are more than proof enough.

Om namah Shivaya

Adhvagat
10 April 2011, 03:49 PM
Jung?
eh!!:mad:
one got to have a Hindu mind to understand.
Perhaps we are discussing love of god and not a westerner.
God is just an arbitrator.
Karma.
No escaping.
laws are rigid as i said.
He doesn't hate... he doesn't love, he is an observer..
his laws take care of every thing.
he is just a witness.

I'm sorry, do you know the work of Jung? He was the first western psychologist to study the importance of religion in the mind, I think his theory and philosophy are of great help to anyone in the path of self-realization. He focused on western mythology and religion? Yes, of course, but he never treated anything eastern with any prejudice. He even talked about the psychology of kundalini, I'm chasing this material for some time.

It's funny that when you saw the quote was from a westerner you got all defensive, and completely ignored my line of thought afterwards. Don't you find it ironic how we're in apparent separation from god but still he's the very basis for everything? He pretended to have no power at all, just to please our mindset. That is unconditional love.

Perhaps you'd be less defensive if he had a Hindu name? :rolleyes:

I just accept pious knowledge, wherever it comes from.

satay
10 April 2011, 04:37 PM
namaste,
Carl Jung is amazing. Every hindu should read him.

charitra
10 April 2011, 04:41 PM
Jung sits in the company of Freud, both are great thinking minds, assets to our recent generations.

satay
10 April 2011, 04:58 PM
namaste,


Jung sits in the company of Freud, both are great thinking minds, assets to our recent generations.

That's for sure. The difference between the two is that Jung is convinced of the spiritual experience requirement of life. He is convinced that the main purpose of life is to realize the potential of the self to seek divine...just like a caterpillar has the potential to become butterfly. Anyway... he is very interesting to read especially from the hindu lens. :)

satay
10 April 2011, 05:04 PM
namaste devotee,


He surely manifests through people around us. OM

I have noticed that a lot too.

One time I told a christian friend of mine who was very helpful in a personal situation, "since God won't manifest himself to give direct help he works through people. In this case, he worked through you to help me." She said, "that's an interesting way of looking at God." :) To this day, I don't think she understood what I was saying because she lacked the hindu background.

rkpande
14 April 2011, 11:13 PM
I'm sorry, do you know the work of Jung? I just accept pious knowledge, wherever it comes from.
I m sorry i couldn't spot your post, i am not a frequent flyer in this forum,
Lets talk about Pious knowledge first.
For a Hindu the complete wisdom what is to be known are contained in Vedas, one doesn't have to go around different rivers to pick pebbles.

Jung: You may know Jung visited India and even tried to meet rammana maharsri, He came to India to gather the wisdom so that he may repackage as his own, back home. Unfortunately he couldn't digest even the Indian water(leave aside the Indian wisdom) and fell sick with dysentery and went back
.
This is what he said about kundalini.

"One often hears and reads about the dangers of Yoga, particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini Yoga. The deliberately induced psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These things really are dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically Western way. It is a meddling with Fate, which strikes at the very roots of human existence and can let loose a flood of sufferings of which no sane person ever dreamed. These sufferings correspond to the hellish torments of the ch&#246;nyid state..." C. G. Jung, Introduction to The Tibetan book of the Dead *

Don't I know the likes of Max Mullars.
and Cheiros who also visited India and back home he repackaged his own brand of palmistry.
and those in the west trying to patent even basmati and neem.
Hindu mind i said, yes, the same mind of Iha Upanishad who conceived Infinity thousands of years back, couldn't be comprehended by westerner till yesterday.
You may know, they have even invented Dream Yoga, Talk of marketing and mind set of the westerners.

regards
rk

Adhvagat
14 April 2011, 11:26 PM
RK Pande, while I agree with some of your points, we should put in perspective and not put Jung in the same bag as the ones that repackage things back to the western world, he never did that, in fact, he openly admitted that the western mind perhaps wasn't suited for the processes that the east offered.

My quest is that, I recognize that Jung offered this great psychoanalytical process and explored with depth every area, some of what he observes mentally points glaringly (but not entirely) to a process of self-realization like what Advaita exposes, but yes, he's not a Hindu philosophically but he also did NOT repackage anything.

I'm studying Jung at the request of my siksha guru, he once inquired: "Why doesn't the students of Veda focus on psychology? It could be a great intersection of knowledge..." and my already infant interest for psychology began to blossom. However, I'm yet scratching the surface of Jung, just like I'm scratching the surface of the Vedas.

Regarding the quote, isn't the consense rergarding Kundalini that it's a strong power that should be tamed, not to be dealth without the aid of a guru not mention drugs and any sort of quick path? Anyway, you pointed me to a Jung book that I never even heard about before.

Sorry if my previous post sounded a little arrogant, it was not my intent. Thank you for your vak.

Om Tat Sat

Adhvagat
14 April 2011, 11:35 PM
Jung: You may know Jung visited India and even tried to meet rammana maharsri, He came to India to gather the wisdom so that he may repackage as his own, back home. Unfortunately he couldn't digest even the Indian water(leave aside the Indian wisdom) and fell sick with dysentery and went back

I didn't know Jung had interest in Ramana Maharsi, I still haven't done any research specifically focused on Jung's interests in eastern knowledge.

It is funny because Jung always had these problems regarding going to a certain holy land, be it Hindu or Christian.

Jung always procrastinated visiting the Vatican and everytime he decided to go he suffere an accident, broke the foot and the time he organized and planned the most he had a heart attack! :p

It is funny that when Jung experienced a lot of visions when in coma, lots of them featured temples hovering the Earth with Hindu characteristics. I hope he comes back soon in a Hindu situations, it would be of great help to the world but I doubt this would happen soon, perhaps in 100 or 200 years.

Here's the biographic book that narrates his visions and experiences: http://www.amazon.com/Memories-Dreams-Reflections-C-G-Jung/dp/0679723951/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302842046&sr=8-1

rkpande
14 April 2011, 11:51 PM
dear PI,
one of the references is this thesis paper which might you.
http://members.shaw.ca/abhishiktananda/Abhi.thesis.4.pdf

I was too harsh myself about Jung.
He tried to understand adwetva though, but then again to scrape off wisdom of OT and NT long ingrained in western mind, takes time. Max Mueller also tried to understand our knowledge first than twist it. But then again before he died he realized his mistake perhaps and he gave the Vedas their due.
pranam
rk

Adhvagat
15 April 2011, 01:30 AM
Funny that I just visited this web page two days ago searching for pictures of Ramana Maharsi.

I'm having a great time reading the appendix of this guy's thesis. Extremely recommended! :)

Friend from the West
18 April 2011, 10:44 AM
Namaste Devotee,
I am new to this site and pretty new to following the Sanatana Dharma. Thanks to all for the warm welcomes and the education this site affords me.
For me most personally, it is not a question I ask anymore. It lacks relevance. What Sahasranama quoted is a most awesome thing for me: “The same am I to all beings; to me there is none hateful or dear; but those who worship me with devotion are in me and I am also in them.” The first is so “Godlike” and I do not find this in the Abrahamic scriptures, at least not with same intent. The second part is more than sufficient for me. What we are offered is either Love or it supersedes Love. The first makes logical sense and the second part I can tangibly feel.
For thirty plus years, I more than struggled with these questions. Agonized at times. Now I do not. I am at peace.
Thanks for the questions.
Peace,
Rich

Adhvagat
27 April 2011, 09:06 PM
dear PI,
one of the references is this thesis paper which might you.
http://members.shaw.ca/abhishiktananda/Abhi.thesis.4.pdf

I was too harsh myself about Jung.
He tried to understand adwetva though, but then again to scrape off wisdom of OT and NT long ingrained in western mind, takes time. Max Mueller also tried to understand our knowledge first than twist it. But then again before he died he realized his mistake perhaps and he gave the Vedas their due.
pranam
rk

RK Pande, I was reading the final part of the second conference of Jung in 'Fundamentals of Analytical Psychology' (may not have the same title in english) and at a time he got angry with some obtuse questions he mentioned the multitued of Hindu and sanskrit books he read.

Do you know of any place I can know what Hindu/sanskrit books Jung read? I know this is more appropriate to ask in a Jungian forum, but I'm just asking you since you provided me that awesome thesis before. Also asking to anyone who may know or know the best place to ask this.

Thanks.