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Divine Kala
08 April 2011, 05:40 AM
What are the options for a woman who does not wish to marry? (To be frank, it is not that I do not wish to marry someday but I have zero sexual desire and as such do not feel attraction.) What can I do? What are my options?

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 07:04 AM
What are the options for a woman who does not wish to marry? (To be frank, it is not that I do not wish to marry someday but I have zero sexual desire and as such do not feel attraction.) What can I do? What are my options?

Sanyas?

sm78
08 April 2011, 07:11 AM
Sanyas?
Wouldn't that be pointless (assuming sannyasa is for sexual renunciation only - which it is not), since she doesn't have any desire on that front.

Divine Kala, I don't understand if it such a problem for you living in Australia. In the west I assume plenty of people live non-married lives, irrespecting of having had or not having partners. In India also now, it is not that big a deal.

But I do have highest respect for the grihasta ashrama among all other stages of life, and ideally it would be best if you could find an asexual or less sexed partner :p to raise a family (unless you have zero desire on that front too).

astrostudent
08 April 2011, 07:18 AM
Wouldn't that be pointless (assuming sannyasa is for sexual renunciation only - which it is not), since she doesn't have any desire on that front.


There's no salvation without renunciation, and some people don't want to renounce because sexual urges keep them in the world. The OP doesn't have that problem, so renunciation should be easy. The birth chart can reveal whether a person has sanyas yogas.

anirvan
08 April 2011, 08:03 AM
Dear Divine kala,

personal speaking to you,its not a place you should ask such questions and your personal feelings in such way as in our Dharma,womens are kept in utmost respect,dignity and revered and seen as Jagatjjanani.

since you had put a question,i would like to say " there is nothing constant 'I" as the self is nothing but a set of samskars,a set of karmic fruits evolving into action.our state of mind always deceive us. myself is an experienced person,though not married,but still not ruled out. sometimes i feels i am near selfrealizaton,next time it seems so far.

our life,its nature,its dominant desire are kept layer by layer...just like earth consists of layers of soil,sand,stone,water,oil etc.

Thats why today"s murderer is tomorrow"s self realized saints, and todays sannyasi is tomorrow"s womanizer. so we dont know what is kept in our karmic layers as billions of birth"s samskar is stored there.

As a Female, its not a easy life to be remain unmarried. and if your dominant aspect is Bhakti,you must marry .jnana marga is about neti...neti,but bhaktimarga is BASUDEVAM SARBAM ITI,so family is the starting place to experience this truth.

Again in hindu dharma marriage to a girl is equivalent to sannyasa to a male. and to a sati nari,nothing is bigger dharma that to love and make his husband happy and worship him as a form of supreme brahman made for her sadhna. second thing sansar-ashrama is not to enjoy ,but to conquer over senses.

In sanatan dharma, a married woman"s dharma is to see God in her husband, and for a Widow, to see her husband in the God. only if one can do this properly,noone can stop her from god-realization.

Onkara
08 April 2011, 09:09 AM
What are the options for a woman who does not wish to marry? (To be frank, it is not that I do not wish to marry someday but I have zero sexual desire and as such do not feel attraction.) What can I do? What are my options?

namasté Divine Kala
Don't marry for sexual attraction, marry for friendship/love. In other words find a friend who feels the same and wants to share their time with you.

realdemigod
08 April 2011, 09:35 PM
Divine Kala,
I have similar opinion.. no interest in marriage though I have sexual desires. I believe you have an unquenched thirst for knowledge..read a lot and gain divine knowledge of Vedas and Upanishads.. surrender your life to Lord Shiva and if the Supreme Lord wants that you should get married..it will happen no matter what.

Divine Kala
09 April 2011, 01:55 AM
Thank you every one for your opinions. I was wondering if there was any official way that I could dedicate myself to God? Bear in mind I do not think I could ever be anything like a nun (the mere idea of being subservient to men makes me twitch) but I'm sure I could do something.

pineblossom
09 April 2011, 02:10 AM
Have you thought of dedicating yourself to Red Cross, or Amnesty International, or World Vision? If I had my time over again I would work for these organization as long as I had a roof of some sorts and a couple of meals a day. That's renunciation.

anirvan
09 April 2011, 03:36 AM
Thank you every one for your opinions. I was wondering if there was any official way that I could dedicate myself to God? Bear in mind I do not think I could ever be anything like a nun (the mere idea of being subservient to men makes me twitch) but I'm sure I could do something.

Is this the teaching of great sanatan dharma ??? i am very much disheartened
to see that being involved in higher teachings of SD you still has thought of a FEMINIST which is the dirty product of kaliyuga. is this advita? is this conducive to bhakti ? never,noway with such thought can understand the ultimate truth of sanatan dharma...the Radha-Krishna tattva. this not my personal thought against any system,but this is the truth.:(

Onkara
09 April 2011, 03:42 AM
Thank you every one for your opinions. I was wondering if there was any official way that I could dedicate myself to God? Bear in mind I do not think I could ever be anything like a nun (the mere idea of being subservient to men makes me twitch) but I'm sure I could do something.
Hello Divine Kala
Man is just a form; flesh. Serving others is serving God. The role of householder is still a role in service of God. God dwells in both male and female form, in the criminal and in the saint. When we make food for ourselves we can offer that food to God before we eat it. On one level the food appears to be serving us directly, but on another level the food is serving the body and the body is to tool to serve God further. With a healthy body we can act and it is action which can be dedicated to God. Every act is a sacrifice to God be it in the silence of a cloister or within the blood of a battle field. It is a question of our attitude today, right now. Dedication the most trivial or repulsive of actions to the divine being is liberation and worship. :)

Sri Krishna explains this to Arjuna (Chapter 4 of Bhagavad Gita (http://www.atmajyoti.org/gi_bhagavad_gita_ch4.asp)).

Divine Kala
09 April 2011, 05:42 AM
Is this the teaching of great sanatan dharma ??? i am very much disheartened
to see that being involved in higher teachings of SD you still has thought of a FEMINIST which is the dirty product of kaliyuga. is this advita? is this conducive to bhakti ? never,noway with such thought can understand the ultimate truth of sanatan dharma...the Radha-Krishna tattva. this not my personal thought against any system,but this is the truth.:(

Ideally women and men are equal - women have their place and duties and men have theirs - but in today's world this is not so. Woman are controlled by men to the detriment of all. Women are abused and forced into situations that degrade them and damage their spirits. I, as a woman, must fear rape every day of my life. I must dress in a manner that is not going to attract unwanted attention and I must know that my work is not valued as highly as a man's.

In an ideal world, Anirvan ji, my contributions to society would be appreciated not in spite of the fact that I am a woman but because I am a human being. I would not have to fear men, in an ideal world, and what they might be thinking. I could talk to them and know that I was being listened to, not objectified.

I object to being forced into subservience to a male in a religious order because I am female, as if I my sacrifice to God is not worth as much as a man's. That is what I object to, Anirvan ji, that is what makes me uncomfortable.

God views me as worthy, and weighed beside a man God views me as equal, but humans do not and that saddens me. If that's feminism... so be it. Please understand, I do not object to men and male religious orders, I simply object to being told that I am less, in the scheme of things, then a man.

I hope this explains my thoughts for both you and Onkara.

Onkara
09 April 2011, 06:18 AM
Ideally women and men are equal - women have their place and duties and men have theirs - but in today's world this is not so...

I hope this explains my thoughts for both you and Onkara.

Hello Divine Kala
Firstly, my angle above is perhaps not at the same pitch as your question. :o Please don't feel I am not sympathetic with your concerns. :)

What would you like, if you could choose to construct the world (for the whole of your time on earth) or at least your immediate environment, how would you describe it as being?

anirvan
09 April 2011, 06:54 AM
Dear Divine Kala,

i fully agree with your views when viewed through current social angel. but what i have told you in previous post is through angel of Sanatan Dharma. where the men are also advised to be according to SD. a Man has not entitled to look a woman as subservient,but respect and worship as Divine mother.so there is no question of inferior-superior,but mutual respect.

In fact the greatest servant of universe is GOD, in that sense he is subservient to each and every creation in the sense that day out,night out he is looking after our everything though we hardly bothers about his existence. but at same time he is greatest.

those who keeps capability to be subservient and serve other are actually the masters and yes they always gets that appreciation and recognized for their work.


In radha-krishna leela, you can see Krishna is massaging feet of Radha, again Radha doing every bit to keep krishna ecstatic.

These things need to be properly understood and cultured,cultivated in practical life to be able to be a true bhakta. i hope you will definitely understand what i mean to see, never intended to support men chauvanism.

As Bhakta"s quality- are like---

trinad api sunicena
taror api sahishnuna
amanina manadena
kirtaniyah sada harihi

One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.

Divine Kala
09 April 2011, 06:55 AM
Hello Divine Kala
Firstly, my angle above is perhaps not at the same pitch as your question. :o Please don't feel I am not sympathetic with your concerns. :)

What would you like, if you could choose to construct the world (for the whole of your time on earth) or at least your immediate environment, how would you describe it as being?

Personally? In my ideal world there would be no division of the sexes, we'd all be hermaphrodites with the ability to take on male and female roles when the time and place called for it. Off course, as humans, we would still find ways to say 'I am better then you' but we couldn't say it because of gender or sex because we'd all be both.

I want lots of other things as well but the above is one of my most sincere wishes. Rape, in such a community, would be viewed on a par with murder. So... yeah. don't really know how to put into words my other desires.

Sahasranama
09 April 2011, 07:17 AM
What are the options for a woman who does not wish to marry? (To be frank, it is not that I do not wish to marry someday but I have zero sexual desire and as such do not feel attraction.) What can I do? What are my options?
Have you considered marrying a woman?

Divine Kala
09 April 2011, 07:20 AM
Have you considered marrying a woman?

Sadly, I am not attracted to women either. (Not to men, not to women, just God...) The only being I am attracted to is God.

Sahasranama
09 April 2011, 07:32 AM
I agree with what sm78 said, in modern society there's no compulsion to get married. You can remain a brahmacharini, do your duty in life and dedicate it to God. Sannyasa is very strict and most people who take sannyasa in modern times do not follow the rules of Sannyasa strictly, they just do the best they can in modern time and circumstances.

Bhisma pitamah and Hanuman are examples of brahmacharins who remained unmaried and still did their duties in life, you can take them as an example for your life. Another example for you could be Shabari who was called a shramana by Valmiki which means an ascetic, she lived in the forest where she did tapasya. But if you do want to get married you may want to take Meera Bai as an example.

Believer
09 April 2011, 10:17 AM
What are the options for a woman who does not wish to marry? (To be frank, it is not that I do not wish to marry someday but I have zero sexual desire and as such do not feel attraction.) What can I do? What are my options?
Your options depend on what your heart desires. So, only you can you can answer the question.
Do you have a desire to help people and would like to do volunteer work?
Can you handle the pressure of schedule driven assignments?
Do you enjoy other people's company or do you prefer to be left alone?
Could you be a nurturing person and be a mother to an adoptive child?
Would an older person, past the age of sexual desires be good for companionship?
Would a house/room-mate be acceptable for social interaction?
Would this house/room-mate have to share your faith?

As far as I know, the Hindu code of conduct guides ONLY the people who want to stay the traditional course - get an education, get a job, get married, have a family, and spend the later part of life in an ever increasing devotion to the Lord.

I can hear your fears about being in a relationship or in an Ashram in a Western setting and be dominated by a male, but depending on how you answer the above questions, you yourself might be able to define and chart your course of life. As one poster above has suggested, one could emulate the life of Meerabai and be completely absorbed in service to the Lord by composing hymns/music glorifying the Lord and singing to Him. Life is complex and those who have never walked in your shoes, or have not led a householders life may not be able to come up with solutions suited to your needs. It is all about YOUR psychological/spiritual/emotional/social bend/needs. So, think hard and maybe some of us could provide you with some suggestions once we know what is it that would make you feel at peace.

Love and happiness!

yajvan
09 April 2011, 11:48 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


What are the options for a woman who does not wish to marry? (To be frank, it is not that I do not wish to marry someday but I have zero sexual desire and as such do not feel attraction.) What can I do? What are my options?

You mention options... but to what? There is no obligation to do anything, hence no alternative is needed. You are fullness itself. Of what do you need more of?
It is like saying - I am the ocean, I need an option. But to become what? A river?

praṇām

Adhvagat
09 April 2011, 12:16 PM
Yajvan, not everyone perceive themselves as oceans. I'm sure I'm part of that group, I may know in theory I'm an ocean, but all I can perceive is modest stream. It's only fair to be interested in joining another stream that is heading the same direction as me.

yajvan
09 April 2011, 07:20 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Yajvan, not everyone perceive themselves as oceans. I'm sure I'm part of that group, I may know in theory I'm an ocean, but all I can perceive is modest stream. It's only fair to be interested in joining another stream that is heading the same direction as me.

My intent of the post is simple... there is no obligation for marriage. If you feel you are not the ocean, the infinite, that is fine. Find your way accordingly. Yet no one should feel compelled to marry due to any social pressures.

praṇām

Adhvagat
10 April 2011, 05:11 AM
Ideally women and men are equal - women have their place and duties and men have theirs - but in today's world this is not so. Woman are controlled by men to the detriment of all. Women are abused and forced into situations that degrade them and damage their spirits. I, as a woman, must fear rape every day of my life. I must dress in a manner that is not going to attract unwanted attention and I must know that my work is not valued as highly as a man's.

In an ideal world, Anirvan ji, my contributions to society would be appreciated not in spite of the fact that I am a woman but because I am a human being. I would not have to fear men, in an ideal world, and what they might be thinking. I could talk to them and know that I was being listened to, not objectified.

I object to being forced into subservience to a male in a religious order because I am female, as if I my sacrifice to God is not worth as much as a man's. That is what I object to, Anirvan ji, that is what makes me uncomfortable.

God views me as worthy, and weighed beside a man God views me as equal, but humans do not and that saddens me. If that's feminism... so be it. Please understand, I do not object to men and male religious orders, I simply object to being told that I am less, in the scheme of things, then a man.

I hope this explains my thoughts for both you and Onkara.

A side thought...

In my years visiting ISKCON temples I've never seen any kind of sexist attitude. Men and women always seemed pretty equal, doing the same devotional services, specially since women can do pujas to deities in ISKCON. Funny that Prabhupada is called misogynistic by some haters while he conceded women the right to received second initiation within ISKCON.

I've seen people questioning the policy of dividing the temple room between men on the left and woman on the right, but well, not everyone is asexual. :p


Sadly, I am not attracted to women either. (Not to men, not to women, just God...) The only being I am attracted to is God.

Why don't you marry God then? :)

Divine Kala
10 April 2011, 06:34 AM
Why don't you marry God then? :)

That is, ideally, what I'd like to do and the main reason for this topic. Are there any formalities I can go through that would, in effect, bind me to God like a marriage.

charitra
10 April 2011, 09:29 AM
Namaste all
In a culture wherein voyeurism is the norm and any deviation from the norm is a subject of merciless ridicule, you don’t want to go around and declare you married the god! Granted Bhakti can take any extreme shape and a devotee may do anything with ones god but societal demands are compelling and inescapable traps we denizens have to bear in mind. On a side note monastic life is not suitable to all.
Whilst underscoring the fact that marriage is ‘overrated’, I need to urge that one ought to keep that option on the table. Even though divorce might come to ones rescue that should not be the first option to reconcile when faced with adversity in ones marital life. The D word is kept away by hindu couples a bit farther down the list of options than the westerners that is the secret of their long lasting marriages. It is not that their mutual love, harmony or understanding is any better than the westerners. The threshold for the D is very high, at least up until recently, sadly a sea change has happened in the landscape of hindu marriage in last decade or so with divorce rate sky rocketing. So marrying god is not a viable option, not to forget encouraging one into a delusion is not dharmic…..my 2 cents.

Believer
10 April 2011, 12:29 PM
So marrying god is not a viable option, not to forget encouraging one into a delusion is not dharmic
Meerabai did not go through any formal rituals, but she always considered herself to be married to God. Her love for Him was not what humans have for each other. It was divine love, a kind of devotional surrendering in the mode of Bhakti. She came closest to establishing, as a human being, the celestial love that Radha had for Krishna. There was no delusion, no adharma and no lust; just transcendental love. Out of this relationship came some of the most beautiful poetry that showed us what love for God is and how it transforms humans into divine beings. One does not have to go around telling everyone about marrying God, even though Meerabai did not care about what people thought of her and was open about it. If one thinks about the Lord, meditates about Him and has His picture imprinted in her heart at all times, how could she go wrong? What higher state would be left to achieve? How could anyone ever experience a bigger ecstasy in life?....my 2 rupees. ;)

charitra
10 April 2011, 04:51 PM
. There was no delusion.... How could anyone ever experience a bigger ecstasy in life?....my 2 rupees. ;)

Agree with Meera's legendary example of devotion and Bhakti but please note the word delusion was used lighly without myself going into semantics. A marriage is a marriage, unless and of course one takes pains and redefines it by broadening the definition further and applying it to the spiritual realm. I was referring to the 'marry'ing god part of the commitment not the devotion part of the bhakti..If someone is getting carried away with Bakti we need to ask him/her to slow down, think and proceed, for the road ahead may get bumpy. As you said if one wants to spend lots of time in Bakti yoga it is fine so long as one can have a planB if one wants to reverse the course and get back to the 'civilian'mode in future (like leaving employment etc).Om Shanti.

Arjuni
10 April 2011, 08:29 PM
Namasté,

Divine Kala, Charitra gives you good advice in that a 'marriage to God' is not a thing to be proclaimed lightly in our skeptical world, but the desire to unite with God as spouse is not delusional or wrong. Meera is one lovely example that has been given; I am certain there are many others, though less well-known. Sometimes, when I read writings like Tagore's Gitanjali (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/tagore/gitnjali.htm) or this work (http://www.sufimessage.com/gayan/ragas.htm) by Inayat Khan, what amazes me is not that this sort of love exists, but that every human on earth doesn't desire to marry God...

I have never heard of any formal rituals within Sanatana Dharma to unite the worshipper with God as spouse, though such things do exist in other religions - examples are the practice of Catholic nuns wearing wedding rings as the "brides of Christ," or the Vodou ritual known as the maryaj lwa, in which the worshipper holds a wedding ceremony to join with a lwa (close to a Hindu Devatā in concept); I know several people who are "married" to God via the latter rite.

Perhaps it would be a good time to begin prayer and meditation upon the idea, and see what help your Beloved may provide? What you wish for is not an easy path to follow, certainly, but if you truly want it, well, the Gita tells us that not a blade of grass moves without His will...

What I pray often is a part of Rig Veda (X.54): Smite not asunder my desire, O Maghavān, thou art he that commands it and thou art he that giveth.
Which I read to mean, in part, that the one that gave you this love will know best how to guide it. :)

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

devotee
10 April 2011, 10:56 PM
Namaste DK,

You can love God as your husband & it has been tried by Meerabai. It is valid form of bhakti.

However, there is no need to go for any public ceremony for that. You simply fall in love with him ... that is all ! Though some Devadaasis are married to God & there is scriptural ceremony for such a marriage ... this system has been criticised for its flaws & this custom is almost dead.

Marriage is not compulsory for Hindu women ... it is their life & it must be their own decision wheher to marry or remain unmarried. Anyone who insists that a woman must marry ... is going against the basic individual freedom available to all Hindus to live their life as they want unless it hurts someone in the society.

OM

yajvan
11 April 2011, 05:36 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



... there is no obligation for marriage. If you feel you are not the ocean, the infinite, that is fine. Find your way accordingly. Yet no one should feel compelled to marry due to any social pressures.


but what leads you to say this yajvan?

If one cares to read the bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad ( some write bṛhadaraṇyakopaniṣad ), maitreyi brāhmaṇa (section 4) gives the following.
Yajñavalkya muni speaks to his wife maitreya ( as he is about to depart to the forest and take to saṃyas-āśrama¹). He says, It is not for the love of the husband my dear that the husband is dear to his wife, but for the love of the Self (ātman). Yajñavalkya-ji points this out for the love of sons, wealth, worlds, gods, etc. as he expounds on 9 subjects.

All this in essence is the love for the SELF; This Self is the Supreme within each of us, we sometimes call ātman .

praṇām


words
saṃyas-āśrama - 1 of the 4 stages or halting places in life; To become the renunciant stage of saṃyāsa

Water
13 April 2011, 12:19 PM
That is, ideally, what I'd like to do and the main reason for this topic. Are there any formalities I can go through that would, in effect, bind me to God like a marriage.

I know nothing and I am no one... so take or leave my opinion as you wish. :)

What would this bind represent? Who would you be proving this "binding" to? Yourself? God? Everyone else? Would this somehow protect you from violence? How would this affirm to yourself or others some "thing" ?

You are already bound to God. :)

There doesn't seem to be an actual result to what you want to do.

Some of your posts also make me feel as thought you're rejecting the male gender as an equal. Surely, you have had positive relationships with other people - both male and female? It doesn't have to be romantic or sexual to be a positive relationship and there is no necessity to have a "superior."

I am a person that likes to over-analyze and over-complicate things and it is my opinion that you are over-analyzing and over-complicating an act of society that you don't engage in, anyway. So take the action of no action. :)

Additionally, someone already mentioned bramacharya. Even as a Bramacharya, you would still serve man (be it men, women, children, hermaphrodites and/or transgenders). If you cannot commit to being able to serve any single one of those genders (term used quite loosely) then you might consider more reflection on the root cause of the question you're asking.