between the brow ?

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namasté

Some advanced concepts we can view in the bhāgavad gītā ( this is why it is in the uttara folder)...


If one reads chapter 6, 13th śloka of the bhāgavad gītā there is an instruction that is offered from kṛṣṇa-ji for meditation.
If one reads several translations you will see a difference of opinion on one word, nāsikāgraṁ. This makes a substantial difference on where one puts their attention.


Lets take a look at the śloka and then this one word.


samaṁ kāyaśirogrīvaṁ dhārayann acalaṁ sthiraḥ |
saṁprekṣya nāsikāgraṁ svaṁ diśaś cā navalokayan ||


dhārayan- holding ; from dhāra meaning holding , supporting , containing
kāya - body

śira - head


grīvam- neck


samaṁ -straight


acalam- still; (and) sthiraḥ = steady, fixed


anavalokayan - not looking


diśaḥ - in all directions; from diś meaning quarter or region pointed at , direction , cardinal point


ca - and


saṁprekṣya - looking at


nāsikāgraṁ - the point of the nose ?


This then says,


Version one
Holding the body, the neck and the head straight, still, and steady and not looking in all directions, looking at the tip of one's nose


Version two
Steady, keeping the body, head and neck upright/straight and still, having directed his gaze to the front of his nose, without looking in any direction


So, the key word here is nāsikāgraṁ. Lets take a deeper look:

nāsika +agraṁ with attention on nas ,ka and agra.

nas नस् - 3rd derivative , means the nose. The 2nd derivative is defined as 'join'.
nāsika नासिक - 'of a place' ; A name of a of a town in Western India on the godāvarī, called nasik, because lakṣmaṇa
cut off the nose of rāvaṇa's sister, the rākṣasa śūrpa-ṇakhā, at this site.
ka क - 3rd derivative is 'the head' ; yet too this ka is defined as of brahman or of viṣṇu

agra अग्र - this is a key word in this discussion because it can be defined a few ways:

uppermost part , top , summit
tip
the nearest end
the beginning

So when we take apart this word we can also see a different idea emerging other then 'the tip of the nose'. We have the upper most part (agra) , joining ( nas) the head (ka) as brahman or viṣṇu (ka)

This suggests not the tip of the nose, but where the nose meets the head. The 'nearest end' not the furthest end ( the tip). Some call this the summit (agra).

Yet we know this location by other names:

ājñā - command , direct ; the command center (cakra)
bhrūmadhya = bhrū ( the brow) + madya (middlemost , central, the space between) or between the brow
bindu = spot or dot

Hence we can read this śloka in the following way:
Version 3
Steady, keeping the body, head and neck upright/straight and still, having directed his gaze to the space between the brow,

(to ka, brahman) without looking in any direction.

praṇām

words
for those that prefer saṃskṛtam of this verse:

समं कायशिरोग्रीवं धारयन्नचलं स्थिरः ।
सम्प्रेक्ष्य नासिकाग्रं स्वं दिशश्चानवलोकयन् ॥

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namasté




Version 3

Steady, keeping the body, head and neck upright/straight and still, having directed his gaze to the space between the brow,

(to ka, brahman) without looking in any direction.

If we continue with this conversation, it will take us to vārāṇasī .


How can that be? This HDF post will explain: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2227&highlight=Varanasi (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2227&highlight=Varanasi)


praṇām

[anirvan]

Pranam Yajvan ji,

I want to ask one doubt. we have to concentrate at junction between brows and nose. again it is said to look at Anja chakra.

so the final inference is with closed eye we have to meditate with the eye of mind on this place.is this correct?

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~



namasté anirvan


Pranam Yajvan ji,

I want to ask one doubt. we have to concentrate at junction between brows and nose. again it is said to look at Anja chakra.

so the final inference is with closed eye we have to meditate with the eye of mind on this place.is this correct?


This is correct... our attention is directed to ājñā cakra. Our eyes are closed. Now just this slight adjustment may be of use to your understanding. Where we direct our eyes is where our attention goes, yes?

So we start with directing our gaze to ājñā cakra. Then we feel our attention go there. We do not strain or push. We direct our attention there, we center our attention there.
Once this occurs we keep the attention there and if the eyes relax and go to another location that is fine. It is for our attention not the eyes to remain at this center, at this bindu. It is said we ~feed~ ājñā cakra with awareness... lively fresh awareness.
How do we keep it ~fresh~ ? By not having the mind wander. Yet there is no forcing - this is the secret - we keep is easy and delicate. There is no need to force śakti. It is by this approach that the mind becomes concentrated. We needn't force the issue.

But what if the awareness strays away? We simply bring it back to ājñā cakra, gently.



praṇām

[anirvan]

I had similar doubts while doing NAVI-DHYANA, it is advised to sit upright,with chin down touching throat and look at the tip of nose and over it concentrate on navi(umbilicus) and then unite PRANA by kumbhaka with APAN with mula bandha at level of manipura(umbilicus). i tried several times but not able to see umbilicus properly.then i realized with closed eye we have to take our mind hence awareness to manipura and umbilicus and do the procedure.
Respected Yajvanji,
Will you put some lights on how to rotate eyes up and meditate on satadala chakra ? it has been really difficult as its painful to look up long time.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~




namast� anirvan



Will you put some lights on how to rotate eyes up and meditate on satadala chakra ? it has been really difficult as its painful to look up long time.

What is important is to direct your awareness, your attention to these centers. As mentioned in the last post, the eyes assist in focusing one's awareness to the different cakara-s. Yet if there is strain then little is accomplished. We direct our gaze in the direction recommended - this directs the awareness. Once the awareness is there the eyes have done their job. We then keep our awareness there , gently.

praṇām

[anirvan]

Thank you very much. i will remember this always. but then why it is said about yogis that "URDHANIMMILITA CHAKHYU" ? May be in samadhi,particularly khechari sidhi,eyes turns upwards and fixed there naturally.

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

namaste

Can't say about Varanasi, but regarding nAsikAgram, when I first came across it in Gita, the enduring impression has been that it was like "looking" in the direction of the nose-tip, so that the crown cakra and the third eye cakra are aligned: like invocation of higher consciousness to subdue/ regulate/ guide the mind. This is nothing different than the technique of "seeing" the cakras "top down".

"agram" no doubt means the "protruding" part of something. In case of nose it should be the tip. I am not refuting anything said here, though certainly do think that this one is also a valid pov.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�



"agram" no doubt means the "protruding" part of something.


agra अग्र - this is a key word in this discussion because it can be defined a few ways:
uppermost part , top , summit
tip
the nearest end
the beginning

Add to this list:

foremost point or part
the beginning
in front , before , ahead of What gives us a glimpse of being closer to the forehead is 'the nearest end' by definition. The nearest is closest to us.

Now that said, there is a siddhi that allows the aspirant to smell the most refined smell. It is done by putting the awareness at the 'tip'. The very front of the nose closest to the nostril openings.

So , we have various techniques that offer different approaches at differing positions.

praṇām

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

paranam


What gives us a glimpse of being closer to the forehead is 'the nearest end' by definition. The nearest is closest to us.
I agree that "start" can be "end" and "end" can be seen as "start".


Now that said, there is a siddhi that allows the aspirant to smell the most refined smell. It is done by putting the awareness at the 'tip'. The very front of the nose closest to the nostril openings.
here but as we know, there is no cakra stationed at nose-tip as such. The cakra involved in the siddhi is certainly manipura, while the nose tip or any other body part merely acts as the "playground", or a place where the manipura frequencies get magnified. i.e. a mode of vibration of manipura, or prana. Another example is meditating on "tongue-tip".


So , we have various techniques that offer different approaches at differing positions.
Thus we come to the central point: even the "third eye" is a playground, that of the agya cakra which is actually located "between one's ears (<:rolleyes:>)". Is it incorrect to say this?
On the other hand, Krishna's prescription (if agra means tip) aligns the shashrara, agya and third eye together, and thus is a "mode" for realization itself rather than for some siddhi like meditating on nose-tip or "between-the-brow".
The crux is, therefore:
"between-the-brow" or "between-the-ears"??

[Mana]

om gurave namaḥ


Namaste,

I can't help but wonder; could we not consider the nose of the vedas in our conjecture upon and after our meditation, and if so; what then might it be, this eye that needs such fine concentration towards a centred flow; towards a summit and the very point of knowledge, this third eye?

The brow then comparable to a wave in Citta?

Midway in between, where dharma meets speculation; could it be that we come to understand, a new, the present; that which has been so delicately placed, right under our noses?

Kind regards.

[brahman]

All versions will be neither true nor eternal unless they have fresh meaning at every single search.

At the same time every single version is hugely significant in its own right.