PDA

View Full Version : To Hell And Back



cmorel02
20 April 2011, 10:50 AM
This is a little book I ran across during some research. It's about this man's journey to hell and pretty much teaching that all other religons are evil and what not. And that when you die you either go to heaven or hell...Strange thing is if you look at Psalm 6:5 it says you just lay unconscience until the return of Jesus and (Thes 4:13-18; 2 Thes 1:7-10) says that the dead will be raised and judged. So that disproves the authors words...But kind of brings us to what us Hindus believe, all the earthly gods are represinatives of the Brahma. He'll come to you in the most comfortable form for that soul...I studied Near Death Experiences, too, which also supports the existence of our God...Sorry if not too clear on anything. But what are your opinions? I really hope to hear them...

Ramakrishna
20 April 2011, 11:49 PM
Namaste cmorel02,


But kind of brings us to what us Hindus believe, all the earthly gods are represinatives of the Brahma.

Can you expand on this? What are these earthly gods that you refer to? Also, are you talking about Lord Brahma or are you talking about Brahman, the all-encompassing reality?

Jai Sri Ram

cmorel02
26 April 2011, 07:43 AM
The god I an talking about here is Yahweh/Jahova.

Eastern Mind
26 April 2011, 12:15 PM
This is a little book I ran across during some research. It's about this man's journey to hell and pretty much teaching that all other religons are evil and what not. And that when you die you either go to heaven or hell...Strange thing is if you look at Psalm 6:5 it says you just lay unconscience until the return of Jesus and (Thes 4:13-18; 2 Thes 1:7-10) says that the dead will be raised and judged. So that disproves the authors words...But kind of brings us to what us Hindus believe, all the earthly gods are represinatives of the Brahma. He'll come to you in the most comfortable form for that soul...I studied Near Death Experiences, too, which also supports the existence of our God...Sorry if not too clear on anything. But what are your opinions? I really hope to hear them...

Vannakkam cmorel: I don't normally respond to anything on the Christian or Islam threads, but here goes. Before Christian imperialism came to Hindu India, there was no sense of it. (rather obviously) So from my point of view personally, that is where I stand. Christianity is totally irrelevant to SD now just as it was then. There is no hell, there is no reason to compare, etc. The two thought systems are eons and light years apart.

From the Hindu (mystical) perspective, there is no Death, no Ego, no individuality, only pieces of a whole dancing out in energy of Lord's dance.

Best luck with your attempts to compare, though, if that is what you choose to do.

Aum Namasivaya

Adhvagat
26 April 2011, 01:13 PM
I'll "disagree" with EM to expand on this.

There IS hell, but mental hell, hell we create for our own selves.

I remember posting about this a while back:


Imagine the following situation: a young guy is seriously mad because his girlfriend left him. Is his suffering real? Is the mental hell that he's living a palatable situation? If he didn't have any attachments to that soul incarnated as a woman, he wouldn't be suffering. So as we entangle ourselves in this material existence we create our own mental hells.

So while we are focusing on the lower parts (http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/dws/dws_r8_charts-chakras.pdf) (remember the archetypal image of hell underground) of our being, envy, malice, jealousy, strong negative feelings arising from lust mostly, we are living in hell and bound to experience them with intensity if we leave this body at this state of mind.

In the book The Human Aura (http://www.scribd.com/doc/12844999/The-Human-Aura-by-Swami-Panchadasi), Swami Panchadasi (thanks for recommending me this book, EM) states:


Each place has its collective aura, just as each person has his individual aura. The astral plane presents a wonderful scene of color by reason of this and similar causes. The harmony of the color scheme in some cases is marvelously beautiful, while the horrible aspect of scenes resemble a nightmare vision of the worst kind.

It is easy to understand why some of the ancients who stumbled into glimpses of the astral plane, while in dreamstate or trance, reported the vision of terrible hells of unquenchable fire, fiery lakes of smoking brimstone, etc., for such ideas would naturally come to the mind of the uninformed person who had peered into the astral plane in such cases.

And in the same way, the visions of heaven reported by the saints and others of high spirituality are explainable on the theory that these persons had sensed some of the beautiful scenes of the higher astral planes, filled with the combined auric tints and hues of souls of high development.

Hope it helps you.

Om

Onkara
27 April 2011, 03:26 AM
Namasté
Hell does exist in the Srimad Bhagavatam e.g.

SB 5.26.12: Punishment in the hell called Mahāraurava is compulsory for a person who maintains his own body by hurting others. In this hell, ruru animals known as kravyāda torment him and eat his flesh. Link: http://vedabase.net/sb/5/26/

In fact there is more than one Hell, the Srimad Bhagavatam says about 21 Hells! [SB 5.26.7] As to whether confusion arises on English translation of the word "hell" is another topic.

Also I have not seen "Hell" mentioned in Upanishads or Agama scriptures, so it appears to be Puranic, and again, some Schools (I expect that of Eastern Mind Ji do not recognise those scriptures). The point is, it is up to you if you need the concept of Hell, in my opinion. As Pietro Ji says, it is purely mental :)

Comparative religions is interesting, it is closer to Universalism (see Directory on forum). However making comparisons (which are not necessary) may very well lead to mental hell. ;)

Sādhaka
27 April 2011, 03:59 AM
Namaste Onkara,

Is it okay for me to not believe the concept of hell? I'm extremely uncomfortable with that. Are they mentioned in the vedas?

It is one of the reasons why I despise the abrahamic religions.

OM

Onkara
27 April 2011, 04:07 AM
Namaste Onkara,

Is it okay for me to not believe the concept of hell? I'm extremely uncomfortable with that. Are they mentioned in the vedas?

It is one of the reasons why I despise the abrahamic religions.

OM

Namasté Sādhaka
Of course, friend! Trust your Self :)
There is no need to consider any Abrahamic concepts to find Divine Truth for ourselves. God exists before scripture. I have not needed to read the Vedas' in depth to confirm this (Upanishads, Gita and Agama are rewarding). The beauty of Sanatana Dharma is that the scriptures support rather than dictate. Adi Shankara does not recognise the need of the puranic scriptures (in which Hell is described), nor to my knowledge do the puranic scriptures state that Heaven and Hell are the choice for all beings - we can aim for moksha with the Lord.

Something which I hope will become clear, is that the Abrahamic scriptures do not work against the Upanishads. There is no threat or need for comparison. The question in my opinion is a big difference in vocabulary, further confused by translation and opinion (on Abrahamic scriptures).

pineblossom
27 April 2011, 06:16 AM
This is a little book I ran across during some research. It's about this man's journey to hell and pretty much teaching that all other religons are evil and what not. And that when you die you either go to heaven or hell...Strange thing is if you look at Psalm 6:5 it says you just lay unconscience until the return of Jesus and (Thes 4:13-18; 2 Thes 1:7-10) says that the dead will be raised and judged. So that disproves the authors words...But kind of brings us to what us Hindus believe, all the earthly gods are represinatives of the Brahma. He'll come to you in the most comfortable form for that soul...I studied Near Death Experiences, too, which also supports the existence of our God...Sorry if not too clear on anything. But what are your opinions? I really hope to hear them...

Perhaps we are already living in our own hell and the way out is break the shackles with such dualist thinking. In fact such was the essence of the teaching of Jesus - but then the Church took over and that was the end of that.

anirvan
27 April 2011, 06:55 AM
Perhaps we are already living in our own hell and the way out is break the shackles with such dualist thinking. In fact such was the essence of the teaching of Jesus - but then the Church took over and that was the end of that.

I fully agree with you. Many sages has said only these thing.that THOSE WHO ARE DUALIST WILL FOREVER SUFFER IN HELL.tHe moment they realize ADVITA ....sarvam-khalu-idam-brahman,they are in heaven.

Eastern Mind
27 April 2011, 07:01 AM
Vannakkam all: Just for clarification, when I say there is no hell, I simply mean the Abrahamic version of some underground cave of fire where mankind faces an eternity of torture.

There are hellish states of mind, and some of us have encountered them. In fact we've discussed them on here. (the anger thread) Basically any chakra below the muladhara is a hellish or uncomfortable or adharmic state.

Also, the focus on this does vary from sect to sect, and person to person. Since I'm pretty focused on one sampradaya in this regard, one which focuses on positivity and non-duality a lot, I rarely think of hell or hellish.

Aum Namasivaya

sm78
27 April 2011, 07:48 AM
Vannakkam all: Just for clarification, when I say there is no hell, I simply mean the Abrahamic version of some underground cave of fire where mankind faces an eternity of torture.

I am not so sure, for those who take such teachings to heart - hells & heavens may indeed exist somewhere, waiting to welcome them after death.

What we can conceive internally must have some source & reality in the continum of consciousness somewhere & Eternity is just a notion of scale.

It is another thing that such heaven and hell is of no consequence to most of the Hindus - I hope.

cmorel02
27 April 2011, 08:00 AM
The way I think of it, if one IS good, DOES good, loves God/Goddess, and meditates, a heavenly afterlife will wait for you. People who harm and hate will suffer: hell or bad life once they are born again....But eventually everyone is born again, unless they find their way back to Brahman again.

Sādhaka
27 April 2011, 08:12 AM
Namasté Sādhaka
Of course, friend! Trust your Self :)
There is no need to consider any Abrahamic concepts to find Divine Truth for ourselves. God exists before scripture. I have not needed to read the Vedas' in depth to confirm this (Upanishads, Gita and Agama are rewarding). The beauty of Sanatana Dharma is that the scriptures support rather than dictate. Adi Shankara does not recognise the need of the puranic scriptures (in which Hell is described), nor to my knowledge do the puranic scriptures state that Heaven and Hell are the choice for all beings - we can aim for moksha with the Lord.

Something which I hope will become clear, is that the Abrahamic scriptures do not work against the Upanishads. There is no threat or need for comparison. The question in my opinion is a big difference in vocabulary, further confused by translation and opinion (on Abrahamic scriptures).

Namaste Onkara,

As usually, beautifully put. Thanks. :)

OM

PatrickMB
28 April 2011, 09:29 AM
I believe that Jesus talked about a permanent Hell more than any other religious prophet. And the purpose of the Christian Hell is not to instruct or uplift the soul, but rather to eternal punish for a temporal act. Personally, it's hard for me to find a loving God in that, although I don't try to change the minds of people who do.

AstralProjectee
08 May 2011, 02:52 PM
Hi cmorel02, You might want to look into St. Isa. Did you know that Jesus traveled to the India learned from the sages and came back. Yes I know many do not know this. In fact there are books and video about it.

Good luck.

Jetavan
27 July 2012, 01:26 PM
Probably the most extreme of the Christian theologies is Calvinism, which says that some people (the "elect") are predestined (since before Creation itself) to hell and some predestined for heaven. Calvinism is characterized by five major beliefs, or "TULIP":

Total depravity of man: Man is totally and completely sinful.
Unconditional election: God "elects" those whom He wants to save; the "unelect" are forever damned.
Limited atonement: Jesus only died for those few people who are "elected".
Irresistible grace: If God elects you, you *will* be saved.
Perseverance of the saints: Once you are saved, you will always be saved.

Obviously, many Christians view the Calvinist God as a terrorist God.

Contrary to Calvinism, is the Christian theology of Universal Salvation, which has it's own TULIP (http://www.christianuniversalist.org/articles/tulip.html):

Total reconciliation: The power of Jesus to reconcile Man to God is total.
Unlimited atonement: Jesus died so that *all* would be saved.
LOVE: God created humanity in order to love all humanity, not just some.
Irresistible grace through the ages: God offers salvation even after death.
Perseverance of God: God never gives up in pursuing our salvation.

Needless to say, official Christian doctrines of most churches reject Universal Salvation.


Aum Namah Śivaaya