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Adhvagat
07 May 2011, 05:18 AM
According to their work published on the pre-press website arXiv.org, some black holes could be remnants of a previous universe that collapsed in a big crunch and was then reborn in the big bang - 13.7 billion years ago.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/06/3210012.htm

It's just weird to see science now using terms like "previous universe" and such.

I guess Hindus were never too far off, were they? ;)

yajvan
07 May 2011, 10:43 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

This may help for those that are really interested in this.

Roger Penrose from the University of Oxford, looking at data from the Cosmic Microwave Background suggest that space and time perhaps did not originate at the Big Bang but that our universe continually cycles through a series of “aeons,” and we have an eternal, cyclical cosmos.

( now I think we're getting closer to Reality )

http://www.universetoday.com/79750/penrose-wmap-shows-evidence-of-%E2%80%98activity%E2%80%99-before-big-bang/


Here's his ~model~
http://www.newton.ac.uk/webseminars/pg+ws/2005/gmr/gmrw04/1107/penrose/


praṇām

Eastern Mind
07 May 2011, 10:55 AM
Vannakkam: The good thing is that myself (and maybe some others on here) feel younger now. I'm really not all that old.

Aum Namasivaya

sanjaya
07 May 2011, 11:45 AM
Hmm, interesting. Well I read the ArXiv pre-print (i.e. the paper intended for consumption by scientists). The journalists aren't misinterpreting the result. Whether I believe that there's enough evidence yet, I'm not sure yet. I'll have to give the paper more than a cursory read. I would only caution that whereas our religion teaches a cyclic view of reality, this model is suggesting previous universes but perpetual expansion in the current phase.

It's interesting, and it does smell like the same air of Vedic philosophy. But let me just offer this caution about justifying one's faith with preliminary scientific results.

Adhvagat
07 May 2011, 04:57 PM
It's interesting, and it does smell like the same air of Vedic philosophy. But let me just offer this caution about justifying one's faith with preliminary scientific results.

As someone who did this to a larger extent in the past, and is still letting go of this "vice", I must say that now I'm shifting my view more towards understanding that this would not be a hard evidence to support faith as a whole, but instead it's a nice similarity to support the process of expansion of consciousness as purported by the Vedas.

For me it's just interesting how vedic rishis in the ancient times and modern scientists in modern time (with modern technology) are observing the same thing. Truth is indeed one.

Sanjaya, since you're more versed in the field than most of us, please get back here when you have more info!

Water
07 May 2011, 10:34 PM
It's interesting, and it does smell like the same air of Vedic philosophy. But let me just offer this caution about justifying one's faith with preliminary scientific results.

:)

"Justifying one's faith" is a great way to put it.

People are eager to create confirmation-bias in what they believe.

With a little work, we could take the material above and "prove" why dinosaurs aren't included in Christian Creationist theories.... :cool1:

realdemigod
08 May 2011, 08:29 AM
this is quite speculative.. but if you see see from the lens of Hinduism.. only after complete destruction..and after some dormant time.. the universe is created again. Some 'blackholes from previous universe' only suggests that the universe wasn't completely destroyed.. as I believe when the universe is close to destruction..only black holes remain.. ripping the cosmos apart..sucking one another at very rapid rates.. if it so happened that one giant black hole became so huge and dense that it exploded under its own gravity.. only suggests the destruction of universe wasn't complete..and before other black holes merged with this giant one.. the big bang happened..in that case the time must have begun before 13.7 billion years old.

sanjaya
10 May 2011, 09:30 AM
this is quite speculative.. but if you see see from the lens of Hinduism.. only after complete destruction..and after some dormant time.. the universe is created again. Some 'blackholes from previous universe' only suggests that the universe wasn't completely destroyed.. as I believe when the universe is close to destruction..only black holes remain.. ripping the cosmos apart..sucking one another at very rapid rates.. if it so happened that one giant black hole became so huge and dense that it exploded under its own gravity.. only suggests the destruction of universe wasn't complete..and before other black holes merged with this giant one.. the big bang happened..in that case the time must have begun before 13.7 billion years old.

Actually this typically wouldn't happen. Matter on the accretion disk of a black hole is indeed consumed by it. However, objects further away will simply fall into stable orbits. Measurements of stars in the galactic center (which is home to a black hole) shows that they obey Keplerian orbits. Also the expansion of the universe provides an outward pressure which pushes galaxies away from each other rather than closer together. Cosmological measurements have shown that the expansion of the universe is actually accelerating rather than slowing down. Although the researchers describe cyclic scenarios, I don't know that this is the primary application of their work. In the paper, these researchers claimed that the existence of previous universes is largely used as an alternative mechanism to inflation:


There is no inflation but the dynamical behavior in the final phase of each cycle is supposed to explain many of the observational features usually attributed to inflation.The nature of the fluctuations generated by quantum perturbations in this model has been studied in [12].

Long story short: they're trying to explain why there's more matter than antimatter in the universe. The problem with further cyclic universes is that the universe doesn't look like it's going to collapse again. This would be a problem for our cyclic view of reality, which is why I caution against building philosophy or theology around this research.

mohanty
10 May 2011, 10:05 AM
See...

We are working with concepts that are, as it is, reletively undefined. Creation is an ambiguous term when it comes to the universe and so is destruction.

But even if it is all speculation, one has to sing a hymn in praise of sages with such powerful imagination. :)

Adhvagat
26 May 2011, 07:43 AM
Another interesting tid bit:


A space telescope has accidentally spotted thunderstorms on Earth producing beams of antimatter.

Such storms have long been known to give rise to fleeting sparks of light called terrestrial gamma-ray flashes.

But results from the Fermi telescope show they also give out streams of electrons and their antimatter counterparts, positrons.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12158718

Related thread: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1441

Obelisk
26 May 2011, 10:20 AM
Antimatter-producing thunderstorms? Very interesting. I've been looking forward to study these topics in detail, but the problem is that the high-level mathematics often involved has a bouncer effect on me, hehe. Books with a more theoretical approach would be really cool. :Cool: