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charitra
22 May 2011, 03:08 PM
Namaste all.The cosmic reasons behind the blue hue of Krishna, and his predecessor Rama in the preceding treta yuga, are explained in scriptures. Lets remind ourselves these avatars are human representations of Vishnu and in turn Vishnu the sustainer of cosmos/universe epitomizes the very formless all pervasive omniscient and omnipotent Brahman. As hindus are aware, Brahman is all that is out there, as was explicitly emphasized in the ‘oneness’ concept of advaita doctrine (of non dualism).
The cosmos that is ‘SEEN’ as BLUE was purposefully depicted in their human forms as their default COLOR, this underscores importance of cosmic relevance of their planetary existence. Our eyes perceive the color of cosmos as blue but amazingly we did not find, at least up until now, a single manifest object out there in the universe in blue, from a tiny asteroid to a mega galaxy, may it be a planet or a star nothing is seen blue. The only one object, by coincidence or by design, that appears blue from sky is our one and only golden planet earth!!! Shiva likewise is blue colored. Our ANCESTORS ARE FAR WISER THAN WE CAN EVER appreciate. Any thoughts or scriptural references? Om shanti.

smaranam
22 May 2011, 04:38 PM
Namaste

From Shrimad BhAgavatam

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.28.13

prasanna-vadanāmbhojaḿ
padma-garbhāruṇekṣaṇam
nīlotpala-dala-śyāmaḿ
śańkha-cakra-gadā-dharam


The Supreme Personality of Godhead has a cheerful, lotuslike countenance with ruddy eyes like the interior of a lotus and a swarthy body like the petals of a blue lotus. He bears a conch, discus and mace in three of His hands.

PURPORT ... about concentrating on one of the 12 VishNu forms ....
.....
The color of the Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is described here as nīlotpala-dala, meaning that it is like that of a lotus flower with petals tinted blue and white. People always ask why Kṛṣṇa is blue. The color of the Lord has not been imagined by an artist. It is described in authoritative scripture. In the Brahma-saḿhitā also, the color of Kṛṣṇa's body is compared to that of a bluish cloud. The color of the Lord is not poetical imagination. There are authoritative descriptions in the Brahma-saḿhitā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā and many of the purāṇas of the Lord's body, His weapons and all other paraphernalia. The Lord's appearance is described here as padma-garbhāruṇekṣaṇam. His eyes resemble the inside of a lotus flower, and in His four hands He holds the four symbols: conchshell, discus, mace and lotus.

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I think there is another place the BhAgavatam says BhagvAn Shri VishNu and His pArshads, dUtas have blue complexion. In other places we know KrushNa described as having the color of a dark raincloud.

The purport says the Lord's color is not poetic imagination, and ... don't know if i should say this... once i closed my eyes for a minute and KrushNa gave a cosmic darshan out of the blue, least expected - well ... i guess He wanted to make a point about something at the time,
I saw this endless dark space - cosmos, with sparky particles here and there ... in it were a flourescent blue KrushNa and a beautiful delicate maiden with Him - Her complexion was unlike anything i had seen before - it was very fair with a prominent pinkish tinge, and very very gently soft and delicate.

Incidentally, has anyone seen the "Cosmic Hand" discovered by NASA ? It was flourescent blue - Shri VishNu's hand with sudarshan chakra (fiery red)

Om namo Bhagavate VAsudevAya

smaranam
22 May 2011, 05:18 PM
Om Namo Bhagavate VAsudevAya ~

NASA discovers a pulsar that looks like Shri VishNu's hand with Sudarshan chakra - that was our theory not NASA's, but everyone called it God's Hand, the Hand behind everything.

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1323.html

A Young Pulsar Shows Its Hand
A small, dense object only 12 miles in diameter is responsible for this beautiful X-ray nebula that spans 150 light years. At the center of this image made by NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory is a very young and powerful pulsar, known as PSR B1509-58, or B1509 for short. The pulsar is a rapidly spinning neutron star which is spewing energy out into the space around it to create complex and intriguing structures, including one that resembles a large cosmic hand.

In this image, the lowest energy X-rays that Chandra detects are red, the medium range is green, and the most energetic ones are colored blue. Astronomers think that B1509 is about 1,700 years old and it is located about 17,000 light years away...

--

Why is it that the highest energy X-Rays are flourescent blue ? What does that say ? highest energy ... and it was captured by "Chandra Observatory" :)

If one says that astronomers have this convention of coloring highest energy/frequency blue - then guess Who gave them the su-buddhi to do so ?

he nAth nArAyaNa vAsudeva

praNAm

charitra
23 May 2011, 12:12 PM
Namaste Smaranam,
Shankaracharya some 1400 yrs ago revamped and renewed the advaita’s nondualism argument and thus warded off any serious impending incursions that almost uprooted Hinduism by the Buddhist monks during that era. All in a very peaceful way in a setting of intellectual debates. This Malayalee acharya has drawn upon the essence of vedas and advocated atmas oneness with Brahman. This was clearly not adopted by buddhism and latter as a result lost the game. His argument won hearts due to the ingrained doctrinal strength and certainly not because of the mythological overlay that enveloped the faith. Hope you see the distinction Iam pointing at. Next I digress a bit here.

The disenchantment about the biblical doctrines (Ref: David Frawly) is palpable in Caucasian lands these past couple of decades. Dogma/ mythology was almost completely done away with sometime ago. More shockingly the euro intellectual community has unleashed a virulent assault on the belief of ‘the bodily ascendance to heaven on the judgment day’. The second arrival of their messenger became a mirage of biblical proportions. Jesuits are helplessly watching their much nourished and cherished belief system crumbling around them from a process of apoptosis or attrition, whatever you call. Doctrines are the backbone of faith for its shelf life but not mythology, that’s the point Iam making here.

Back to Hinduism. The above rabble rouser was just to draw parallel to our own future, that our own nastiks and charvakas (atheists) have never vanished completely, that they are very much alive and thriving among ourselves, that they are just waiting to up the ante- The rationalist society of hindus is as strong as the western atheists camp. What tools they use to downplay our faith? Science of course! We all should be forewarned. They pick and choose issues and events, especially described in Itihasas (Ramayana and Mahabharata) and work their way up from there to dismantle this one and only belief system that gave humanity hope (in its advaita doctrine). Advaita as a stand alone doctrine, completely devoid of mythology and itihasa, can neutralize such rows with nonbelievers. Agreed, we must interpret our scriptures with respect and great alacrity. I brought up the color issue, why- because if you google Huffpost.com and note how the vishnu’s color was criticized by commenters there, then you would get an idea what is forthcoming from the Jesuits.

Preparedness is all I am asking. Hindus sadly don’t learn any lessons from history (charitra), the future attacks are not physical ones but will be science based. Sanskrit scriptures have offered scientific solutions millennia ago, we only have to refocus our energies in that area and look up the references properly once again. For vedas have it all. Iam not undermining the importance of bhakti yoga or dualism, instead am simply highlighting the greatest strength of SD, advaita, that which will remain a shining light thru the entire human existence. Advaita will be the common binding factor for all intellectuals INCLUDING the athiests. Shanti.

smaranam
24 May 2011, 02:05 PM
Namaste CharitraJi

I do understand where you are coming from, and respect that. It is a good thing for the health of SanAtan Dharma, to show the connection between what scriptures describe and how it fits hand-in-glove with the Universal phenomena and advanced science.
VaishNav acharyas do that too - show the list of human traits that match the demons KrushNA killed : aghAsur = undesired human trait list A , bakAsur = trait list B etc.

However, i thought you asked for scriptural quotes ?

Any thoughts or scriptural references?

That was the only reason i gave a reference, but no way was i going to withhold the purport.

This thinking has been a common thread on HDF - "Since KrushNa / VishNu is bound to Indian culture we should be a little low-toned about the Theistic side (or portray it as mythological) and only focus on/portray the barebone lowest common denominator i.e. advaita - I am not this, not that - I am spiritual space (Aham BrahmAsmi). "

It is done to protect SD from intellectual attacks and ridicule - but what happens to SD from inside in the process ? Fortunately, the alignment with science, viz., the underlying oneness, interconnection and quantum mechanics, remains intact from the Theistic/VaishNav POV as well. That is the beauty of Sanatan Dharma.

So you are doing your part so that the next generation or the Christians and Muslims stop ridiculing SD : "What genius of the rishis to depict the blue sky as the VishwarUpa of BhagvAn - blue form"

And i do my part for the sake of those who are attracted to the Theistic side but a little skeptical and shy to enter the Temple and need some sanga first for preliminary faith:

"The Lord was first always, and the material Universe came next as a part of Him - merely a fraction. The blueness of the sky (phenomenon of refraction) and the attribute of all-pervasiveness belongs to Shri VishNu, not that VishNu is a poetical expression of all-pervasiveness and blue skies."

BhagvAn Shri VishNu/KrushNa is not bound to Indian culture or even to planet earth. Indian culture (BhArtiya SaMskruti) is bound to KrushNa. The rest of the world was unaware of it, was never there or strayed at some point.

Further, SanAtan Dharma acknowledges that BhagvAn manifests and reveals Himself partially / transformed according to desh (country) , kAla (time / era) and pAtra (subjects - people).

praNAm

* Did i mention that while i am sorry about accidentally raining on someone's efforts, i feel like three-and-a-half yr old MohanA who unties the calves (whom the Gopas took efforts to tie) and tips the pot of dahi, gives a sweet smile, and before the gopa/gopis have recovered from His sweetness, runs away !

smaranam
24 May 2011, 02:07 PM
This is just a viewpoint for those who like it:
Let us make sure we do not throw the baby along with the bath water. That baby is Divine. The essence of everything.

karAravinde padAravindam
mukhAravinde viniveshayantam
vaTasya patrasya puTe shayAnam
bAlam mukundam manasA smarAmi
- bAl mukundAshtakam verse 1

"I meditate on the baby MukundA who lies on the Banyan leaf and puts His Lotus toe with His Lotus hand into His Lotus mouth."

Also, we do not have to fear the atheists for another 5000 years - so one can make the most of the golden period of Kali Yug and its Yuga Dharma.

praNAm

smaranam
25 May 2011, 07:25 AM
Preparedness is all I am asking. Hindus sadly don’t learn any lessons from history (charitra), the future attacks are not physical ones but will be science based. Sanskrit scriptures have offered scientific solutions millennia ago, we only have to refocus our energies in that area and look up the references properly once again. For vedas have it all.

Namaste CharitraJi

I agree, a very good idea, and some groups/people are doing this.

I suppose this is what you are looking for:

shuklAmbara dharam vishNum
shashi varNam chaturbhujam
prasanna vadanam dhyAyet
sarva vighnopa shAntaye

- VishNusahasranAma.

This verse is also invoked for a beginning Ganesh puja - and applies to both VishNu and GaNesh, in parallel.

shukla ambar = white clothing OR white sky (there is the provision for intellectuals you were looking for)

shashi varNa - complexion of moon, smokey gray silver OR enchantingly beautiful like the moon. (KrushNa has always been compared to the moon by His associates in VrundAvan - both His face and coolness, calmness).

**YajvanJi has elaborated on this in a thread somewhere.

----

There is a book - "Glories of Krishna" by Chinmay Mission Trust (started by Swami ChinmayAnand). It is a concise explanation of what is in the Shrimad BAgvat. At every point it has insightful (?) allegorical pointers correlating aspects of the Lord's form.

While such allegories can help when questioned by atheists, it is not the accurate picture. The Lord is NOT an allegory ! VaishNavs do not entertain that. Since followers of Swami ChinmayAnand are in the succession of Shankaracharya Shringeri matth, they do not find anything wrong in this - and i guess this is what you are looking for too.

- like Vayjayanti Haar (our vAsanAs) , yellow pItAmbar (earth elements - periodic table), blue-black complexion he calls the infiniteness of BrahmaN'.

It says Rukmini represents the jIva, her father Bhishmaka is the body, her five brothers Rukmi et al, are the senses, and She cannot rescue Herself, asks the Lord = paramAtmA , to come and kidnap her.

I found this book at our Temple book store. It says - published in Mumbai.

I think it is better to look at other aspects that vedas reveal as science like the oneness, ayurved, architecture etc. Shrila PrabhupAd says Krishna Consciousness is a science. It is the science, and a scientific process of uncovering our true nature, understanding God and serving Him in a loving relationship.

praNAm

Ganeshprasad
25 May 2011, 09:13 AM
Pranam smaranam all





While such allegories can help when questioned by atheists, it is not the accurate picture. The Lord is NOT an allegory !

praNAm

I must say i agree with you entirely, i do not practice my Dharma to appease atheists or as a defense against fear off being converted.
Most Hindus do not worship Brahman or know much about it, why should we be apologetic about our history, ithyas, puranas. i grew up learning from Ramayan and Mahabharat, sure there are passages on it that makes you wonder but that is no reason to call it myth. it is just that we do not understand how it all was, puranas not only speak off this yuga but other manvatras also. Puranas help us understand Vedas, they are essential ingredient for Hindus why else Vyasji take the trouble.
It is the same Sankracharya who advise us, Bhaja Govind. who is know as Shyam Sundra.


SHAANTAAKAARAM BHUJAGASHAYANAM PADMANAABHAM SURESHAM
VISHWAADHAARAM GAGANASADRASHAM MEGHAVARNAM SHUBHAANGAM.
LAKSHMIKAANTAM KAMALANAYANAM YOGIBHIRDHYAANAGAMYAM
VANDE VISHNUM BHAVABHAYAHARAM SARVALOKAIKANAATHAM.

MEANING
I bow to Lord Vishnu the One Master of the Universe, who is ever peaceful, who reclines on the great serpent bed, from whose navel springs the Lotus of the Creative Power, who is the Supreme Being, who supports the entire universe, who is all-pervading as the sky, who is dark like the clouds and has a beautiful form; the Lord of Lakshmi, the lotus-eyed One, whom the yogis are able to perceive through meditation, He, who is the destroyer of the fear of Samsar.




Jai Shree Krishna