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sarabhanga
01 April 2006, 04:37 PM
Aryan society was originally divided between Kshatra (the nobility, of horse-riding warriors) and Vish (the common tribesmen); and hereditary priests (Brahmana) served the Kshatriya in the sacrificial worship of their pantheon.

The learned Brahmana employed Sanskrit to record their Wisdom, which is thought to have been directly revealed to the Rishis (Seers), whose Mantras are generally considered as the linguistic embodiment of the eternal Satyam (Truth) and Ritam (Law) underlying the universe.

The earliest Samhita (collection of Mantras) appears in the Rig-Veda (Praise Revelation), whose prime concern is sacrificial ritual.

The Aryans revered their ancient Sky-God Varuna (cf. Greek Ouranos), whose power and wisdom is revealed in the light of the Sun (‘the eye of Mitra and Varuna’). He knows the cosmic secrets in the upper regions, and all deeds done or not done, and he sees the truth and falsehood of men. He has many eyes, especially in the night sky, and employs spies in the trees (presumably fireflies), who watch to see if men walk the righteous path.

The Natural Law (Rita) of the universe was established by Varuna ~ and the word Arya refers to one who conforms to this Law. He separated the primordial Dyausprithivi, to reveal Dyaus (Sky ~ cf. Zeus) and Prithivi (Earth).

The Aryans, however, praised most highly the demon-slaying warrior-god Indra, who became their ‘King of Gods’. The Rig-Veda Samhita includes numerous prayers addressed to Indra, imploring his help in vanquishing the enemy, capturing their cattle, and acquiring their wealth. His preferred oblation is Soma, a plant said to grow on Mujavat Mountain.

There is clear connexion between the four chief Adityas (solar gods) of the early Rig-Veda (Varuna, Mitra, Aryaman, and Bhaga) and the Avestan Ahura Mazda, Mithra, Airiyaman, and Baga.

The early Vedic Asura Varuna is equivalent with Avestan Ahura Mazda, the Lord of High Knowledge, who is manifest as Varana (the Sky) and is the keeper of Asa or Arta (the fundamental ethical principal of Zoroastrianism).

Varuna was gradually eclipsed by the developing solar pantheon and became a God of the vast Waters, where serpents (Nagas) dwell, and a guardian (Dikpala) of the sunset realm in the West.

After death, Yama leads the soul into the next world, to be judged according to the life lived. The blessed live on in bliss with Yama in the celestial ‘World of the Fathers’ whereas the damned are punished with torment in the ‘House of Clay’. This reward and punishment was seen as final ~ the bulk of the Rig-Veda knows nothing of successive lives.

Yama is Dikpala of the South, where he entertains the departed Fathers (Pitara); Soma (identified with the Moon) and the Rudras (the other nocturnal ‘spies’) dwell in the North; while the light of Indra and the Adityas arises in the East.

Despite the proliferation of deities requiring worship, the early Rig-Veda notes that, what is but One, the learned call by manifold names:

Ekam Sat, Vipra Bahudha Vadanti.

ramkish42
13 April 2006, 03:09 PM
Veda naturally is not four but one. It is divided into four parts and Rig is one amongst it. Certain mantras are called Rig mantras by divider of vedas.

I am not sure how many times these vedas are divided in the past, but the recent division is done by Krishna Dwapaayana Vyasa.

Before this Vyasa in Veda there was no division. In such cases, how do you relate Rig came first.

The Idea of First Veda Rig belongs to India no doubt, but First book of mankind belongs to western scholars who approach in different manner. The idea of history is different than what we perceive. One of the opinion is Rig is oldest Veda, in fact, all our scriptures tells us all divisions of Veda came together

sarabhanga
29 May 2006, 02:57 AM
Until about 1000 BC, Aryans had not penetrated further east than the Jamuna River, but they eventually spread into the Ganges Valley, and reached as far as the western frontiers of Bengal by 800 BC. Concurrently, the 10th Mandala of the Rig-Veda revealed Prajapati (Lord of Creation) as the ‘God who has ever been the One King of all that breathes’.

Sacrifice (Yajna) was elevated to supreme importance, as the very process by which the universe came into being, and the ritual actions of Yajna became invested with magical power.

Sacrifice performed in the phenomenal world has an effect more vast than the act itself, and the supernatural power that produces this disproportionate effect is Brih (‘Vast’, as the boundless sky) ~ the power of Varuna, now considered inherent within, and wielded by, Brahman.

In the Vedas, the neuter Brahman (nom. Brahma) refers to sacred utterance or Mantra, and the power contained in it; and the noble gods of the early Rig-Veda were said to possess Brahman. The Lord of this ‘Logos-Brahman’, however, was Brahmanaspati or Brihaspati.

As the Brahmana's priest-craft was elaborated, three priests (Purohita) became necessary for correct Yajna. The chief Hotar followed the Rig-Veda, whose Mantras were rearranged as Gayatri in the Sama (Song) Veda for a second priest (Udgatar) to intone. And a third Revelation was compiled, the Yajur (Sacrificial) Veda, which provides supplementary ritual formulae for the Adhvaryu, who was responsible for the manual elements of Yajna.

Vedic cosmogony, however, remained rather nebulous:


Then was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.

What covered in, and where? And what gave shelter? Was water there, of unfathomed depth?

Death was not then, nor was there immortality: no sign was there, the divider of day and night.

That One Thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from it was nothing whatsoever.

Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness, this All was indiscriminated chaos.

All that existed then was void and formless: by the great power of Warmth was born that Singularity.

Thereafter rose Desire in the beginning, Desire the primal seed and germ of Spirit.

Sages, who searched with their hearts, discovered the existent’s kinship in the non-existent.

Transversely was their severing line extended: what was above it then, and what below it?

There were begetters, there were mighty forces, free action here and energy up yonder.

Who verily knows and who can declare it, when was it born and whence comes this creation?

The gods are later than this world’s production. Who knows then when it first came into being?

He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,

Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows it not.


[from Rig-Veda Samhita ~ Transl. R.T.H. Griffith]

sarabhanga
18 June 2006, 08:16 AM
After 1000 BC, with the Samhitas in their final redaction, prose directives and exegesis, known as Brahmanas, were added to each of the Vedas. In their cosmogony, unmanifest Brahman became Vishvakarman (Maker of All ~ also known as Daksha-Prajapati), emerging from Asat (Not-being) to create Cosmos out of Chaos. Prajapati (as Brihaspati, the cosmic Purohita) created life by offering himself as an oblation, in the form of Purusha (Primal Man ~ vital spirit, the latent creative power of metaphysical Brahman) ~ thus becoming not only the energy behind the creative act, but the material ingredient of the universe.

Brahma (n.) is said to have created Brahmā (m.) through self-sacrifice at Pushkara, in the Pushkaranya (Purusha-ka-Aranya ~ Forest of Purusha). Brahman was inspired but unmoved until this Purusha-Yajna. And, now manifest, through the power of Brih, Brahman is referred to in masculine form (nom. Brahmā), indicating the personalized Creator Brahman. Thus personalized, any man conversant with Brahmā was known as Brāhma, a type of the Brāhmana caste.

The Trayi-Vidya (Threefold Wisdom) was revealed in three Brahma-Vedas, for three Soma priests, reflecting the triple formula of creation, which also determined three Aryan castes, and three stages of life (Ashrama) ~ Brahmacarya (Student), Grihastha (Householder), and Vanaprastha (Forest Recluse) ~ in the three-dimensional realm of physical reality.


सर्वं खल्विदं ब्रह्म

sarvaṁ khalvidaṁ brahma

All this is verily Brahma

sarabhanga
04 July 2006, 01:15 AM
The expansion of Aryan influence required Brahminic recognition of some new realities. The Brahmanas established that four castes of humanity exist as part of the ordained structure of the universe, resulting from Prajapati’s ‘Sacrifice of Primeval Cosmic Man’ (Purusha-Yajna), who was divided into four parts: Brahmana was his mouth, the arms were made Kshatriya, his thighs Vaishya, and from his feet was born Sudra (Serf ~ a fourth category of man, required for submissive indigenous peoples).

The advance of Brahmanism, however, faced vigorous opposition from the Yati (Hermits, cf. Yeti), a pre-Aryan brotherhood of hermit shamans who supported the regional kings against Aryan culture, and paid with their lives. The Brahmanas mention that ‘Indra gave the Yati to the wolf-hounds’. Only three survived, to whom Indra gave boons ~ the surviving Yati were finally accepted into the Aryan community. The Yati ‘priests’ were known as Vratya or Yatuvidah (those skilled in Yatu ~ Sorcery), and their wisdom found expression in the Atharva-Veda, which incorporates popular and indigenous chants and charms, and provides the earliest literary source (albeit Sanskritic) for the religion of pre-Aryan India.

This fourth Veda is actually known as Atharvangirasah, having both Atharvan and Angiras components, the former characterized as Shantam (Holy) and the latter as Ghoram (Terrible). Atharvan includes auspicious and remedial charms (Bheshagam), while Angiras ritual has aggressive intent and was distinguished as Abhikarikam (unholy Sorcery).

The Yatuvidah were Agni (Fire ~ cf. Latin: Igneus) priests, whose ritual had primarily domestic concern. Their sorcery involved the magical and medicinal use of indigenous flora, which remained largely mysterious to the Aryan immigrants. The Atharva-Veda provides a manual of pre-Aryan medical lore, although the identity of most herbs is no longer clear. Orthodox priests did not accept the Atharvan as a true Brahma-Veda, and counselled Brahmanas to avoid the practice of medicine ~ a woman with knowledge of the correct use of roots was especially to be feared.

The Atharva-Veda emphasized the underlying transcendent principle that was always implied in the Trayi-Vidya, but only truly appreciated in profound contemplation. In Aryan cosmogony, the inceptive power of creation was originally held in Mantra (as Brih), and was gradually transferred to the sacrificial process of Yajna (as Purusha or Soma); but, for the Yati, Yogi, and Jnani, the process is involutional, with Tapas as the efficient cause. Self-generated creative heat and illumination indicate the solar nature of this pure metaphysical Brahman, who is essentially related to the fourth dimension of time.

The Atharva-Veda established, in addition to the Hotar, Udgatar, and Adhvaryu, an essential function for the Atharvan Purohita, who adopted the supreme title of Brahman. The Brahman in Atharvan Yajna undertakes a less active, supervisory role, accounting for faults and inadequacies in the ritual performance with Bheshagam, and protecting against malefic influences with Abhikarikam.

A fourth Ashrama, known as Yati, completed the Atharvan (3+1) vision, which was prefigured in the ancient Aryan Adityas ~ the unfathomed darkness of Varuna supporting the all illuminating Mitra who, with Bhaga (Womb, or Prosperity), begot the brilliant Aryaman and the entire solar race.

Brahman has four heads, and at Dula Deo Mandir at Kajuraho his four arms are represented holding a sacrificial ladle (his essence as Purusha or Prajapati), a book (he is approached through wisdom), a Mala or rosary (he is to be contemplated and meditated upon), and a Kamandalu or alms-pot (symbolic of a mendicant’s life).

sarabhanga
20 July 2006, 06:17 AM
Atharvan Hymn to Bhumi ~ AV 12.1


Satya, Rita, Diksha, Tapas, Brahman, and Yajna, support the Earth. May this Earth, the mistress of that which was and shall be, prepare for us a broad domain!

The Earth that has heights, and slopes, and great plains, that supports the plants of manifold virtue, free from pressure that comes from the midst of men, she shall spread out for us, and fit herself for us!

The Earth, upon which the sea, and the rivers, and the waters, have arisen, upon which this breathing, moving life exists, shall afford us precedence in drinking!

The Earth whose are the four regions of space, upon which food and the tribes of men have arisen, which supports the manifold breathing, moving things, shall afford us cattle and other possessions also!

The Earth upon which of old the first men unfolded themselves, upon which the gods overcame the Asuras, shall procure for us all kinds of cattle, horses, and fowls, good fortune, and glory!

The Earth that supports all, and furnishes wealth, the foundation, the golden-breasted resting-place of all living creatures, she that supports Agni Vaishvnara, and mates with Indra, the bull, shall furnish us with property!

That Earth which formerly was water upon the ocean of space, which the Rishis found out by their skilful devices; whose heart is in the highest heaven, immortal, surrounded by truth, shall bestow upon us brilliance, and strength, and place us in supreme sovereignty!

That Earth upon which the attendant waters jointly flow by day and night unceasingly, shall pour out milk for us in rich streams, and, moreover, besprinkle us with glory!

The Earth which the Asvins have measured, upon which Vishnu has stepped out, which Indra, the lord of might, has made friendly to himself; she, the mother, shall pour forth milk for me, the son!

Thy snowy mountain heights, and thy forests, O Earth, shall be kind to us! The brown, the black, the red, the multi-coloured, the firm Earth, that is protected by Indra, I have settled upon, not suppressed, not slain, not wounded.

Into thy middle set us, O Earth, and into thy navel, into the nourishing strength that has grown up from thy body; purify thyself for us! The Earth is the mother, and I the son of the Earth; Parjanya is the father; he, too, shall save us!

The Earth upon which the priests enclose the Vedi, upon which they, devoted to all holy works, unfold the Yajna, upon which are set up, in front of the sacrifice, the sacrificial posts, erect and brilliant, that Earth shall prosper us, herself prospering!

Upon the firm, broad Earth, the all-begetting mother of the plants, that is supported by Rita; upon her, propitious and kind, may we ever pass our lives!

A great gathering-place thou, great Earth, hast become; great haste, commotion, and agitation are upon thee. Great Indra protects thee unceasingly. Do thou, O Earth, cause us to brighten as if at the sight of gold: not any one shall hate us!

Agni is in the Earth, in the plants, the waters hold Agni, Agni is in the stones; Agni is within men, Agnis are within cattle, within horses.

Agni glows from the sky, to Agni, the god, belongs the broad air. The mortals kindle Agni, the bearer of oblations, that loveth ghee.

The Earth, clothed in Agni, with dark knees, shall make me brilliant and alert!

Upon the Earth men give to the gods the sacrifice, the prepared oblation; upon the Earth mortal men live pleasantly by food. May this Earth give us breath and life, may she cause me to reach old age!

The fragrance, O Earth, that has arisen upon thee, which the plants and the waters hold, which the Gandharvas and the Apsaras have partaken of, with that make me fragrant: not any one shall hate us!

That fragrance of thine which has entered into the lotus, that fragrance, O Earth, which the immortals of yore gathered up at the marriage of Surya; with that make me fragrant: not any one shall hate us!

That fragrance of thine which is in men, the loveliness and charm that is in male and female, that which is in steeds and heroes, that which is in the wild elephants, the lustre that is in the maiden, O Earth, with that do thou blend us: not any one shall hate us!

Rock, stone, dust is this Earth; this Earth is supported, held together. To this golden-breasted Earth, I have rendered obeisance.

The Earth, upon whom the forest-sprung trees ever stand firm, the all-nourishing, compact Earth, do we invoke.

Rising or sitting, standing or walking, may we not stumble with our right or left foot upon the Earth!

To the pure Earth I speak, to the ground, the soil that has grown through the Brahma. Upon thee, that holdest nourishment, prosperity, food, and ghee, we would settle down, O Earth!

Purified the waters shall flow for our bodies; what flows off from us, that do we deposit upon him we dislike: with a purifier, O Earth, do I purify myself!

Thy easterly regions, and thy northern, thy southerly regions, O Earth, and thy western, shall be kind to me as I walk upon thee! May I that have been placed into the world not fall down!

Do not drive us from the west, nor from the east; not from the north, and not from the south! Security be thou for us, O Earth: waylayers shall not find us, hold far away their murderous weapon!

As long as I look out upon thee, O Earth, with Surya as my companion, so long shall my sight not fail, as year followeth upon year!

When, as I lie, I turn upon my right or left side, O Earth; when stretched out we lie with our ribs upon thee pressing, do not, O Earth, that liest close to everything, there injure us!

What, O Earth, I dig out of thee, quickly shall that grow again: may I not, O pure one, pierce thy vital spot, and not thy heart!

Thy summer, O Earth, thy rainy season, thy autumn, winter, early spring, and spring; thy decreed yearly seasons, thy days and nights, shall yield us milk!

The pure Earth that starts in fright away from the Naga, upon whom were the fires that are within the waters, she that delivers to destruction the blasphemous Dasyus, she that takes the side of Indra, not of Vritra, that Earth adheres to Sakra, the lusty bull.

Upon whom rests the sacrificial hut and the two vehicles that hold the Soma, in whom the sacrificial post is fixed, upon whom the Brahmanas praise the gods with Riks and Samans, knowing also the Yajus-formulae; upon whom the serving-priests are employed so that Indra shall drink the Soma;

Upon whom the Rishis of yore, that created the beings, brought forth with their songs the cows, they the seven active priests, by means of the Satra-offerings, Yajna, and their Tapas;

May this Earth point out to us the wealth that we crave; may Bhaga add his help, may Indra come here as our champion!

The Earth upon whom the noisy mortals sing and dance, upon whom they fight, upon whom resounds the roaring drum, shall drive forth our enemies, shall make us free from rivals!

To the Earth upon whom are food, and rice and barley, upon whom live these five races of men, to the Earth, the wife of Parjanya, that is fattened by rain, be reverence!

The Earth upon whose ground the citadels constructed by the gods unfold themselves, every region of her that is the womb of all, Prajapati shall make pleasant for us!

The Earth that holds treasures manifold in secret places, wealth, jewels, and gold shall she give to me; she that bestows wealth liberally, the kindly goddess, wealth shall she bestow upon us!

The Earth that holds people of manifold varied speech, of different customs, according to their habitations, as a reliable milch-cow that does not kick, shall she milk for me a thousand streams of wealth!

The serpent, the scorpion with thirsty fangs, that hibernating torpidly lies upon thee; the worm, and whatever living thing, O Earth, moves in the rainy season, shall, when it creeps, not creep upon us: with what is auspicious on thee, be gracious to us!

Thy many paths upon which people go, thy tracks for chariots and wagons to advance, upon which both good and evil men proceed, this road, free from enemies, and free from thieves, may we gain: with what is auspicious on thee, be gracious to us!

The Earth holds the fool and holds the wise, endures that good and bad dwell upon her; she keeps company with the boar, gives herself up to the wild hog.

Thy forest animals, the wild animals homed in the woods, the man-eating lions, and tigers that roam; the Ula, the wolf, mishap, Rikshika, and Rakshas, O Earth, drive away from us!

The Gandharvas, the Apsaras, the Aryas and Kimidins; the Pisakas and all Rakshas, these, O Earth, hold from us!

The Earth upon whom the biped birds fly together, the flamingos, eagles, birds of prey, and fowls; upon whom Matarisvan, the wind, hastens, raising the dust, and tossing the trees ~ as the wind blows forth and back the flame bursts after;

The Earth upon whom day and night jointly, black and bright, have been decreed, the broad Earth covered and enveloped with rain, shall kindly place us into every pleasant abode!

Heaven, and Earth, and air, have here given me expanse; Agni, Surya, Apas, and all the gods together, have given me wisdom.

Mighty am I, Uttara by name, upon the Earth, conquering am I, all-conquering, completely conquering every region.

At that time, O goddess, when, spreading forth, named Prithivi by the gods, thou didst extend to greatness, then prosperity did enter thee, and thou didst fashion the four regions.

In the villages and in the wilderness, in the assembly-halls that are upon the Earth; in the gatherings, and in the meetings, may we hold forth agreeably to thee!

The words I speak, honeyed do I speak them: the things I see they furnish me with. Brilliant am I, and alert: the others that rush against me, do I beat down.

She whom Visvakarman did search out by means of oblations, when she had entered the surging flood of the atmosphere, she, the vessel destined to nourish, deposited in a secret place, became visible to the gods and the heavenly mothers.

Thou art the scatterer of men, the broadly expanding Aditi that yields milk according to wish. What is wanting in thee, Prajapati, first born of the Ritam, shall supply for thee!

Thy lap, O Earth, free from ailment, free from disease, shall be produced for us! May we attentively, through our long lives, be bearers of Bali-offerings to thee!

O mother Earth, kindly set me down upon a well-founded place! With father Heaven cooperating, O thou wise one, do thou place me into happiness and prosperity!

Mukunda
20 December 2006, 07:51 AM
Does anybody know how many slokas/couplets are in each vedas ? Do we have complete vedas or only part of it ? ( any good website for vedas ?? )

yajvan
20 December 2006, 12:32 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Does anybody know how many slokas/couplets are in each vedas ? Do we have complete vedas or only part of it ? ( any good website for vedas ?? )

Namaste Mukunda,

Let me see if I can address one part of your question, and then add info that you may find of use.
The Rk ved has 10,552 mantras with various chandas ( Meter) and rishi's (or seers) let alone the deity (Devata) being addressed. The mantra's are grouped into 1028 hymm's. These are grouped into 10 Mandala's ( or books). Some think 10 mandala's due to the 10 dik bala's or 10 directional points. I am sure you have heard of the various mandala's.

The seers ( there's about 400 or so in the rk ved, with 25 being female) cognized (seen or revealed) the knowledge of the ved. To understand this information, one needs to know the sanketa or symbolism they point out. This , as I know it is the ninya or mystories of this great workings of the universe. Yet, that said, the aim of both rishi and devata is to systematically lead one to higher levels of human consciousness and perfection. To unfold the full potential of the human existence to our full potential that is satyam rtam brhat - the Truth, the Right and the Vast of our being. I have not found an on-line web resource as yet that meets this (my) need at this level.

Hense when one reads the ved, its not all about the outer homam and fire sactifce, but what is going on within the consciousness of one's being - the internal yajya. the outer homam i.e. the kindling of agni, is an expression of the inner yajya. Hence a guide to the Rk Ved , Sama ved ( sama is the rk chanted in meter), etc. is appropriate. Why this?

Because of the following:
Richo akshare parame vyoman yasmin deva adhi vishve nisheduh,
Yastanna veda kim richa karishyatiya it tad vidus ta ime samasate.
(Rk Veda, 1.164.39)

That is,
The Veda or rks, reside in the transcendental field or akshara, of the highest (parame) etheral Being (vyoman) in which reside all the adhi vishve deva's (or impulses of creative intelligence, the laws of Nature), responsible for the whole manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open (na veda) to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him? Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness (samasate or rest contented) , in That ( Tat or Bhuma, fullness-wholeness of life)."
What does this say in short? Of what use is the ved, for he whom is not becoming established in the Absolute? Where will be the value of this great knowledge other then words... it says, become established in atman, the avyayam (undecaying), the even-ness to reap the full value of the knowledge.

One additional insight from the munduka (the shaving) Upanishad, or ones that are shaved heads ( the yataya, or sanyasin's):

The atman cannot be obtained by much study of the vedas or intelligence or much learning. He whom the SELF chooses, by him the SELF can be gained. To him the atman reveals its true nature.

For me, this suggests that sadhana is more then study, yet the knowledge is wonderful! The experience of SELF comes not out of a book , but from within, and with His/Her grace.

Yet do we just wait and see? The next verse/mantra/sutra says,
'This atman cannot be attained by one who is destitute of strength or without earnestness of penance without mark ( or focus).
But if the wise (man/woman) strives after IT by those means then the SELF enters into Brahman'.

Being in health ( mind , body and spirit) or strengh, and with focus and resolve (e.g. mark) to strive to IT, that is Brahman, then one reaches the goal.


pranams,

Agnideva
20 December 2006, 02:38 PM
Namaste Mukunda,

Number of mantras in the Veda Samhitas:

Rigveda: 10,552
Samaveda: 1,875
Yajurveda has two branches – Krishna: 2,086 and Shukla: 1,975
Atharvaveda: 5,987

Sacred Texts (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/) - This site has Rigveda, Samaveda and Krishna Yajurveda in whole, and Atharvaveda in part. All the translations are from nineteenth century western Indologists, which many feel are too literal, and fail to capture deeper meanings.

SAKSI (http://www.vedah.com/org2/index.html) and The Vedic Experience (http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/vedic_experience/VEIndex.html) - I really like these two sites. They contain some beautiful translations from the Vedas.

I hope that helps :).

OM Shanti,
A.

yajvan
20 December 2006, 05:33 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Mukunda,

Number of mantras in the Veda Samhitas:

Rigveda: 10,552
Samaveda: 1,875
Yajurveda has two branches – Krishna: 2,086 and Shukla: 1,975
Atharvaveda: 5,987

Sacred Texts (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/) - This site has Rigveda, Samaveda and Krishna Yajurveda in whole, and Atharvaveda in part. All the translations are from nineteenth century western Indologists, which many feel are too literal, and fail to capture deeper meanings.

SAKSI (http://www.vedah.com/org2/index.html) and The Vedic Experience (http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/vedic_experience/VEIndex.html) - I really like these two sites. They contain some beautiful translations from the Vedas.


Namaste Agnideva,
what a wonderful and blessed name.. Agni , the divine will.

The sites you reference are good... I have been fortunate to purchase the Krishna Yajur Ved, Taittiriya Samhita from SAKSI ( along with other agmas). The insights are excellent an I recommend R.L. Kashyap's work, as Sri Aruobindo and Kaplai Shastry's work.
I still am at a loss for this level of insight(s) found on line e.g. the level of robust discussion and interpretation of the Ved. If you have other sites, I would appreciate the pointer to them... Again , thx for your kind help and post.

pranams,

Agnideva
21 December 2006, 09:36 AM
Namaste Yajvan,



what a wonderful and blessed name.. Agni , the divine will.
Thank you Yajvan :).


I still am at a loss for this level of insight(s) found on line e.g. the level of robust discussion and interpretation of the Ved. If you have other sites, I would appreciate the pointer to them... Again , thx for your kind help and post.
Yes I agree. I’ve seen many sites which contain the Veda, but it is always the same 19th century translations which completely lack any spiritual insight into the true meaning of the verses. I am currently reading Sri Aurobindo’s book, “Secret of the Veda” which has been very helpful to me in understanding many of the concepts.


Some think 10 mandala's due to the 10 dik bala's or 10 directional points. I am sure you have heard of the various mandala's.
This is interesting Yajvan. I had never heard this before. I had read of only 8 guardians of the directions. Can you please shed some light on the 10 dik-palas?

With regards,
A.

orlando
21 December 2006, 12:45 PM
Does anybody know how many slokas/couplets are in each vedas ? Do we have complete vedas or only part of it ? ( any good website for vedas ?? )


According to the scriptures,these days we have only the 6% of the Vedas!

After Srila Vyasadeva divided the Vedas into four books (Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva), his disciples further divided them into 1,130 divisions. This is stated in the Kurma Purana (52.19-20):
eka-vimsati-bhedena rg-vedam krtavan pura
sakhanam satenaiva yajur-vedam athakarot

sama-vedam sahasrena sakhanam prabibheda sah
atharvanam atho vedam bibedha navakena tu

Previously the Rg Veda was divided into 21 sections, the Yajur Veda into 100 sections, the Sama Veda into 1,000 sections and the Atharva Veda into 9 divisions.

By http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/srimad-bhagavatam.html

Each division has 4 minor divisions, namely the Samhitas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanisads. Thus altogether the 4 Vedas contain 1,130 Samhitas, 1,130 Brahmanas, 1,130 Aranyakas, and 1,130 Upanisads. This makes a total of 4,520 divisions.

At present, most of these texts have disappeared due to the influence of time. We can only find 11 Samhitas, 18 Brahmanas, 7 Aranyakas and 220 Upanisads which constitutes a mere 6% of the entire Vedic canon!


I hope that you will find interesting the following scriptural verses about Vedas.

rcah samani chandamsi puranam yajusa saha
ucchistaj-jajnire sarve divi deva divi-sritah

The Rg, Sama, Yajur and Atharva became manifest from the Lord, along with the Puranas and all the Devas residing in the heavens. (Atharva Veda 11.7.24)

evam ime sarva veda nirmitah sa-kalpah sa-rahasyah sa-brahmanah sopanisatkah setihasah sanvakhyatah sa-puranan

In this way, all the Vedas were manifested along with the Kalpas, Rahasyas, Brahmanas, Upanisads, Itihasas, Anvakhyatas and the Puranas.(Gopatha Brahmana, purva 2.10)

nama va rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama-veda atharvanas caturtha itihasa-puranah pancamo vedanam vedah

Indeed, Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva are the names of the four Vedas. The Itihasas and Puranas are the fifth Veda. (Kauthumiya Chandogya Upanisad 7.1.4)


Shri Suta says the following in the Vayu Purana60.16-18, 21-22:

itihasa-purananam vaktaram samyag eva hi
mam caiva pratijagraha bhagavan isvarah prabhuh

eka asid yajur-vedas tam caturdha vyakalpayat
catur-hotram abhut tasmins tena yajnam akalpayat

adhvaryavam yajurbhis tu rgbhir hotram tathaiva ca
audgatram samabhis caiva brahmatvam capyatharvabhih

akhyanais capyupakhyanair gathabhir dvija-sattamah
purana-samhitas cakre puranartha-visaradah

yac-chistam tu yajur-veda iti sastrartha-nirnayah

That almighty Lord (Sri Vyasa) chose me as the qualified speaker of the Itihasas and the Puranas. In the beginning there was only one Veda – the Yajur Veda. This was divided into four portions. From these stemmed the four performances known as the catur-homa by which he (Vyasa) arranged for the performance of sacrifice. The Adhvaryu priest uses the Yajur mantras, the Hotra priest uses the Rg mantras, the Udgata priest uses the Sama mantras, and the Brahma priest uses the Atharva mantras.

O best of all the brahmanas, after this he (Vyasa) who understands the meaning of the Puranas, compiled them and the Itihasas by combining various akhyanas, upakhyanas and gathas.Whatever remained after Vyasa had divided the Vedas into four divisions was considered to also be the Yajur Veda. Thus is the conclusion of the sastras.

Please read also Srimad Bhagavata Purana,Canto 1,Chapter 4:
(14) Sűta Gosvâmî said: "When the second age that ran into the third, ended, was the sage [Vyâsa] born to Parâs'ara from the womb of the daughter of Vasu as a full aspect of the Lord. (15) One morning at the rise of the sun globe, after being cleansed by the water of his morning duties, he sat down at the bank of the river Sarasvatî to concentrate. (16) Knowing past and future, he saw, as it happens from unseen forces in the different ages, that in the religion of his time gradually anomalies were accruing. (17-18) Seeing in his transcendence how with the dull and impatient of the faithless lacking in goodness, there was a decline in the natural power in all types of men as well as in other creatures, and that the common man being unlucky was short-lived, devoted the sage his transcendental vision to the welfare of all the vocations and stages in life. (19) With the insight that there were four sacrificial fires for purifying the work of the people, divided he the one Veda accordingly into four to ensure the continuance of sacrifice. (20) Rig, Yajuh, Sâma and Atharva were the names of these four Vedas while the Itihâsas (the single histories) and the Purânas (the collections of histories) were called the fifth Veda. (21) After that the Rig Veda was propagated by the rishi Paila, the Sâma Veda by the learned Jaimini, while Vais'ampâyana was the only one versed enough to qualify for the defense of the Yajur Veda. (22) The serious respect for the Atharva Veda was with Angirâ, also called Sumantu Muni, while the Itihâsas and the Purânas, were defended by my father Romaharshana. (23) All these scholars on their turn distributed the knowledge entrusted to them to their disciples who did the same with their following who did so with their pupils, and thus the different branches of followers of the Vedas came about. (24)

Please read even what the great ancient sage Yajnavalkya says in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad.

II-iv-7: As, when a drum is beaten, one cannot distinguish its various particular notes, but they are included in the general note of the drum or in the general sound produced by different kinds of strokes.
II-iv-8: As, when a conch is blown, one cannot distinguish its various particular notes, but they are included in the general note of the conch or in the general sound produced by different kinds of playing.
II-iv-9: As, when a Vina is played, one cannot distinguish its various particular notes, but they are included in the general note of the Vina or in the general sound produced by different kinds of playing.
II-iv-10: As from a fire kindled with wet faggot diverse kinds of smoke issue, even so, my dear, the Rig-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Sama-Veda, Atharvangirasa, history, mythology, arts, Upanishads, pithy verses, aphorisms, elucidations and explanations are (like) the breath of this infinite Reality. They are like the breath of this (Supreme Self).


Regards,
Orlando.

Mukunda
22 December 2006, 08:46 AM
Thaks a lot friends,
What a tragedy that we are having only 6% of Vedas with just 5000 years has been passed in KaliYuga. 4,27,000 years more to go before Kalki(Vishnu avatar) come here.
We are fortunate to have having Bhagavad Gita and Puranas without being destroyed.
I came to know that Lord Chaitanya's avatar has been metioned in Vedas/Puranas and he appeared just 500 years ago. Lord Chaitanya is not known to many people surprisingly even though it has been metioned in Vedas.
Question : Is there any more avatar metioned in Vedas in kaliyuga ?

Agnideva
22 December 2006, 11:14 AM
I came to know that Lord Chaitanya's avatar has been metioned in Vedas/Puranas and he appeared just 500 years ago. Lord Chaitanya is not known to many people surprisingly even though it has been metioned in Vedas.
Question : Is there any more avatar metioned in Vedas in kaliyuga ?
Namaste Mukunda,

I don't know that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is mentioned in the Vedas, maybe in some Vaishnava Upanishads. The Bhagavat Purana gives a list of 25 Avatars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar#The_25_Avatars_of_the_Puranas)of Lord Vishnu. The last one yet to come is the Kalki Avatar toward the end of the Kaliyuga.

OM Shanti,
A.

yajvan
22 December 2006, 07:10 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan,

I had never heard this before. I had read of only 8 guardians of the directions. Can you please shed some light on the 10 dik-palas?



Namasate Agnideva,
let me outline the 10 directions and guardians... this goes further then this discussion, yet lets start with the following:
We know of the directions and I will start with East ( Surya starts in the east and is the beginning of the day).
Direction---------------- Owner---------------------Mantra
East--------------------Indra--------------Om Lam Indrya Namha
South East------------- Agni --------------Om Ram Agnye Namha
South----------------- Yama --- --------- Om Mam Yamaya Namah
Southwest ----------- Nairrtati ---------- Om Kshyam Nairrtye Namah
West ---------------- Varuna ----------- Om Vam Varunaya Namah
Northwest ------------- Vayu ------------- Om Yam Vayuve Namah
North ------------------ Soma ------------Om Sam Somayaa Namah
Northeast -------------- Isana -----------Om Hum Isanya Namah
Vertical down----------- Brahma -------- Om Am Brahmane Namaha
Vertical Up ------------- Ananta ----------Om Hrim Anantaya Namah

Agnideva
23 December 2006, 11:56 AM
Northeast -------------- Isana -----------Om Hum Isanya Namah
Vertical down----------- Brahma -------- Om Am Brahmane Namaha
Vertical Up ------------- Ananta ----------Om Hrim Anantaya Namah
Namaste Yajvan,

Thanks very much for the info. It appears that the dig-palas are all Devas from the Veda. I’m assuming that Isana, Brahma and Ananta are the same as Rudra, Brahma and Vishnu, or is it just that they have the same names?

OM Shanti,
A.

Mukunda
24 December 2006, 01:45 AM
Lord Chaitanya prediction in Vedas
http://www.acbspn.com/godhead/gaura_1predictions.htm
http://www.acbspn.com/godhead/gaura_2predictions.htm




Is there any specific reference in the Vedas as to when in this yuga, the Supreme Lord’s Avatar- Sri Krishna Chaitanya was scheduled to appear?

** In the Atharva-Veda; Purusa-Bodini-Upanisad, it is said:
saptame gaura-varna-visnor ity aena sva-saktya
caikyam etya pratar avatirya saha svaih sva-manum siksayati
"In the seventh manvantara, in the beginning of the Kali-Yuga, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will, accompanied by His own associates, descend in a golden form to the earth. He will teach the chanting of His own names."


When exactly does He come in the kali-yuga, and where does He specifically appear and what will He do?

** In the Atharva Veda, the Supreme Person says:

itotham krta sannyaso'vatarisyami sa-guno nirvedo
niskamo bhu-girvanas tira-atho' lakanandayah kalau
catuh-sahasrabdhopari panca-sahasrabhyantare
gaura-varno dirghangah sarva-laksana-yukta isvara
prarthito nija-rasasvado bhakta-rupo misrakhyo
vidita-yogah syam
I will descend on the earth after the passage of four thousand years in the Kali-Age, [kalau chatuh sahasrabdhopari] and before the passage of five thousand years [pancha sahasra abhyantare].

I will come on the earth on the bank of the Ganges, [tira-sthah alakanandayah]. I will be a tall and saintly Brahmana devotee. I will have all the auspicious symptoms of an exalted person [dirghangah sarva-laksana-yuktah].

I will exhibit renunciation. I will have all auspicious signs. I will be a devotee, practicing bhakti yoga. I will taste the rasa of My own devotional service.


** In the Sama Veda, the Supreme Lord says:

tathaham krta sannyaso bhu-girvano 'vatarisye
tire'lakanandayah punah punah isvara-prarthitah sa-
parivaro niralambo nirdhuteh kali-kalmasa-kavalita-
janavalambanaya
I shall come to the earth, accompanied by My associates, in a place by the bank of the Ganges. I will advent to save the people who are afflicted and devoured by the sins of the age of Kali. I will manifest as an Avadhut Brahman Sannyasi.


What is the name of the place where the Supreme Lord appears?

** The Chandogya Upanisad describes the place of advent of the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna Chaitanya.

This is explained by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, in the Sabadvipa Dham Mahatmya (text 5):

tan-madhye daharam saksan
mayapuram itiryate
tatra vesma bhagavatas
chaitanyasya paratmanah
tasmin yas tv antarakaso
hy antardvipah sa ucyate
The spiritual city in the shape of a lotus has the abode of Sri Mayapur as its heart. Sridham Mayapur is the divine abode of Lord Chaitanya, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the middle of Mayapur is the place called Antardvip.

(ACBSPN Note: One needs to catch a local train to “Krishna Nagar” from “Sealdah Station” in Calcutta. After the 3 hour train journey, you got to catch a bus for Mayapur, which will take another hour or so. Alternatively, you could catch a local train from Howrah for Navadvip. These trains are very rare - about 4 or 5 a day, so its better to go thru Sealdah. From Navadvip station you got to take a cycle-rickshaw to the “Ghat” . Then you cross the Ganges and reach Mayapur. The half an hour motorized boat ride may cost you about 1 to 2 Rupees!)


Are there any other relevant scriptural references in the vedas describing the appearance or qualities of Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu?

** The Svetasvatara Upanisad (Ch. 6, text 7) describes the qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Chaitanya:

tam isvaranam paramam mahesvaram
tam devatanam paramam ca daivatam
patim patinam paramam parastad
vidama devam bhuvanesam idyam
"O Supreme Lord, you are the Supreme Mahesvara, the worshipable Deity of all the demigods and the Supreme Lord of all Lords. You are the controller of all controllers, the Personality of Godhead, the Lord of everything worshipable."


[B]** Svetasvatara Upanisad Ch 3 text 12, 14

mahan prabhur vai purusah
sattvasyaisa pravartakah
sunirmalam imam praptim
isano jyotir avyayah
"The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Mahaprabhu, who disseminates transcendental enlightenment. Just to be in touch with Him is to be in contact with the indestructible brahmajyoti. "


** Sri Chaitanya Upanisad (Chaitanyopanisad), text 5:

jahnavi-tire navadvipe golokakhye dhamni govindo
dvi-bhujo gaurah sarvatma maha-puruso mahatma
maha-yogi tri-gunatitah sattva-rupo bhaktim loke
kasyatiti. tad ete sloka bhavanti
"The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, the supreme enjoyer, whose form is transcendental, who is beyond the touch of the three modes of material nature, and who is all pervading Supersoul residing in the-hearts of all living entities, will appear again in the Kali-age. Appearing as the greatest devotee, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will assume a two-armed form of golden complexion in His abode of Goloka Vrindavan manifested on the bank of the Ganga at Navadvip. He will disseminate pure devotional service in the world. This incarnation of the Lord is described in the following verses."


In what color will the Lord appear in the Kali-yuga, and what will He do?

** Sri Chaitanya Upanisad text 6:

eko devah sarva-rupi mahatma
gauro rakta syamala-sveta-rupah
chaitanyatma sa vai chaitanya-saktir
bhaktakaro bhakti-do bhakh-vedyah
"The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the master of all transcendental potencies, and who may be known only by devotional service, appears in innumerable transcendental forms. He has appeared in red, white and black complexions, [gauro rakta syamala sveta rupah] and He will also appear in the golden form of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. He will assume the role of a perfect devotee [bhakta akarah] and He will teach the conditioned souls the path of pure devotional service [bhakti dah].


What is the nature of the form of Lord Chaitanya and how is He understood?

** Chaitanya Upanisad. text 7:

namo vedanta vedyaya
krmaya paramatmane
sarva chaitanya rupaya
chaitanyaya namo namah
I offer my respectful obeisances unto Him, who is understood by Vedanta [namo vedanta vedyaya], who is Lord Krishna [Krishnaya], the Supersoul [paramatmane], whose form is fully transcendental and conscious of everything [sarva-chaitanya-rupaya]. We offer our humble obeisances again and again. [chaitanyaya namo namah]


What is the result of understanding the divine position of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu?

** Sri Chaitanya-Upanisad. text 8:

vedanta vedyam purusam puranam
chaitanyatmanam visva-yonim mahantam
tam eva viditva' mrtyum eti
nanyah pantha vidyatetyanaya
"Knowing Him who is the object of knowledge in the Upanisads, the oldest person, the embodiment of consciousness, the source of the universe and the greatest of all, one crosses over death. There is no other path for going there."


What will Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu do in this incarnation ?

** Sri Chaitanya-Upanisad. text 9:

sva-nama mula-mantrena sarvam hladayati vibhuh
The Supreme powerful [vibhuh] Lord Sri Krishna Chaitanya appears in His golden form, and He will fill the universe with bliss [hladayati] by the chanting of His own holy names [sva-nama-mula-mantrena].


Which mantra will this yuga avatar chant?

** Sri Cartanya Upanisad text 10.

sa eva mula-mantra japati harir iti krishna iti rama iti
Sri Krishna Chaitanya will chant the maha-mantra comprised of the divine names of Hari, Krishna and Rama. i.e.,

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare
(ACBSPN Note: the pronunciation of “Rama” is “rAma” or “rAm” and *not* "rAmA" as commonly misunderstood.)


Does Lord Chaitanya appear in every day of lord brahma? Just like the original Personality of Godhead, Lord Sri Krishna does appear once in every day of Lord Brahma.

[B]** Answer: Srila Prabhupada once explained in Melbourne, Australia, in answer to the question of how long it would be before Lord Krishna would come to this planet again in His personal form: after 8 billion, 600 milion years.

Devotee: How long do you say it is before Krishna comes to this planet again in His physical form?

Srila Prabhupada: Now, calculate, I have already given the duration of one day, twelve hours, of Brahma means 4,300,000 years multiplied by one thousand....the eight billion.

Devotee (2): 600,000,000.

Srila Prabhupada: So Krishna comes after this period in one day, after one day of Brahma, He appears.

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, does Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu also appear every day of Brahma?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, following Krishna. Krishna comes in the Dvapar-Yuga. There are four sets of yugas: Satva, Treta, Dvapar, Kali. So Krishna comes at the end of Dvapar-Yuga, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu comes in the Kali-Yuga so almost the same year, same circulation... Similarly, Krishna appears in rotation in this universe after so many years, eight billion years. So next He goes to another universe....
[Melbourne Australia. 22nd May 1975.]


Did the Srimad-Bhagavatam (Bhagavat-Puran), the foremost of all Vedic literatures predict the appearance of Lord Chaitanya Maraprabhu?

** In the seventh canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Prahlad Maharaj directly hints at the hidden nature of the Supreme Lord's appearance. Because the Supreme Lord is also called Tri-Yuga, or one who appears in only three yugas (satya, dvapara, treta), He is sometimes said to appear in a concealed form, in the age of Kali.

channah kalau yad abhavas tri-yugo'tha sa tvam

(Srimad Bhagavatam 7.9.38)


Are there any more direct references in the Simad Bhagavatam, than the above reference?

** In the Tenth Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam, chapter eight, Gargamuni the family priest of Nanda Maharaja, explains that the young boy Sri Krishna has three colors - white, red and yellow - when He appears in His transcendental form in different ages. In the current incarnation of Krishna, He has appeared ...as black.

asan varnas trayo hy asya grhnatotnvyugam tanuh
suklo raktas tatha pita idanim krmatam gatah
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.8.13)

Srila Krishna das Kaviraj Goswami, the celebrated author of the Sri Chaitanya-charitamrta, explains that the three colors of white, red and yellow are the three bodily colors which the Supreme Lord assumes in the ages of Satya, Treta and Kali respectively.

sukla rakta pita-varna ei tina dyuti
satya-treta-kali-kale dharena sri-pati
The Bhagavatam explains in the conversation between Karabhajan Muni and King Nimi, that in the Dvapara-Yuga, the Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead appears in a blackish form [dvapare bhagavan syamah]. He has a yellow dress and carries His own weapons [pita-vasa-nija-ayudhah]. He is beautified with the mark of Srivatsa and the Kaustubha jewel [sri vatsa-adibhih ankais ca laksanaih]. This is the actual description of His characteristics [upalaksitah].

The great sage continues his instruction to King Nimi by saying that people in general in the age of Dvapar-Yuga worshiped the Lord of the Universe . In the age of Kali, they worshipped the Supreme Person by the regulation of the scriptures [tantra vidhana].

[I]krishna varnam tvisakrmam sangopangastra parsadam
yajnaih sankirtana prayair yajanti hi sumedhasah
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.5.32)
"In the age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the holy name of Krishna. Although His complexion is not blackish, He is Krishna Himself. He is accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions."


How does this verse refer to the advent of Lord Chaitanya, since his name is not directly mentioned there?

** Just as the symptoms and characteristics of the various previous incarnations are mentioned in the scriptures, similarly the symptoms of the appearance of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu are described.

Krishna-varnam indicates that He belongs to the category of Krishna. Krishna varnam also means one who constantly repeats and sings the name of Krishna. The main business of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was the chanting of the holy name of Krishna. Thus the words Krishna varnam and Krishna Chaitanya are equivalent.

Srila Krishna das Kaviraj Goswami has elucidated the two meanings of the words Krishna varnam by stating:

krishna ei dui varna sadayanra mukhe
athava krmake h'nho varne nija sukhe
Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu always sings the two syllables Krish & na [Krishna ei dui varna sada yanra mukhe], or He always relishes great transcendental pleasure while describing Lord Krishna [athava krmake tinho varne nija-sukhe].


Is there any hint or explanation of His bodily characteristics?

His bodily complexion is not black [tvisa akrishnam]. Lord Chaitanya appeared in a very light, golden like complexion. His complexion was yellow [akrma-varane kahe pita-varana]. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is very beautiful.

Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is often described as Gaurasundara. Gaura means fair and Sundar means beautiful. Sometimes He is also called Gauranga or one who has a very fair complexion.

sm78
24 December 2006, 06:23 AM
Namaste Yajvan,

I had never heard this before. I had read of only 8 guardians of the directions. Can you please shed some light on the 10 dik-palas?

The worship of the dasa dikpals is an integral part of shakti puja. Ofcourse maynot be universally applicable, but it is atleast what I have seen in kali pujas.

The 10 dikpals are the protectors of the aryavarta in vedic times. The essence is to make us realize that protecting the land of dharma from foreign threats is an integral part of dharma and sadhana. Dikpals were indeed great saktas in this regard.

yajvan
25 December 2006, 11:18 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~~

The worship of the dasa dikpals is an integral part of shakti puja. Ofcourse maynot be universally applicable, but it is atleast what I have seen in kali pujas.

The 10 dikpals are the protectors of the aryavarta in vedic times. The essence is to make us realize that protecting the land of dharma from foreign threats is an integral part of dharma and sadhana. Dikpals were indeed great saktas in this regard.
Namaste sm78,
Thank you for your post, and what you say could be true, yet the 10 dikpalas has much to do with:

the 4 directions of life - Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha (Cardinal directions) and Vastu shanti; Note that this from Vastu shastra, that is the science of vastu, from vasu, some say earth. Some say vastu etymologically means ' the place where people dwell ' i.e. vasanti pranito tra , so says S.K. Ramachandra Rao. We know too that vesma means that in which people enter. In English its been called the vestibule for years, and not many people use this word in this modern day.
Now, who resides in this space? Vastu Purusha, also known as vastospati.
Using this knowledsge of direction, the owners (devata), etc is a great science I only have limited knowledge of yet read about this the best I can.
Who owns what direction is important ( hence the 10 I called out in the previous post) as called out as the dik-palas. Thus up and down (vertical is used here) as the Brahmasthan is found in the center of the home, temple, etc. Vastu designed homes have at the center akasha , with no clutter, objects, furniture, etc.
In Jyotish there is also dig-bala or directional strengh, or where the graha's get more strength based on the direction. Perfect example is east, owned by Sun and has its dig-bala there too. Sani's dik-bala is west, Guru or Jupiter is North east, like that.
When we talk direction, we cannot omit Kalacharaka and its influences. In Kalacharaka ( Or time wheel) we have the 8 directions , starting with the east and going clock wise i.e. SE,. S, SW, W, NW, N, NE, then back to E. These directions are associated with the graha's in one chart, and the 27 Nakshatra's ( or asterisms of the moon) .
This whole knowledge is part Kalachakra Tantra, of which I am without any footing. From a Joytish perspective the Kalachakra is used to see body, mind and prana, and how it enters, and is consumed, blocked, etc.More reading on this can be found with Sthapatyaveda, Agni purana, Garuda purnana, Brahmanda purana and Skanda Purana.
pranams,

atanu
25 December 2006, 11:40 AM
Lord Chaitanya prediction in Vedas
------- (http://www.acbspn.com/godhead/gaura_1predictions.htm)

** Svetasvatara Upanisad Ch 3 text 12, 14

mahan prabhur vai purusah
sattvasyaisa pravartakah
sunirmalam imam praptim
isano jyotir avyayah
"The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Mahaprabhu, who disseminates transcendental enlightenment. Just to be in touch with Him is to be in contact with the indestructible brahmajyoti. "


---



Dear,

A personality, howsoever supreme, cannot assume the identity with the BEING. Is your shortness you?

Om

Mukunda
30 December 2006, 02:05 AM
Dear,

A personality, howsoever supreme, cannot assume the identity with the BEING. Is your shortness you?

Om
praNAm,

Please explain what is contradicting here and intention ? Is this translation of sloka is not correct as per you or you don't accept Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is incarnation of god even though it has been mentioned in many vedic literature.

--Mukunda

orlando
02 January 2007, 12:40 PM
praNAm,

Please explain what is contradicting here and intention ? Is this translation of sloka is not correct as per you or you don't accept Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is incarnation of god even though it has been mentioned in many vedic literature.

--Mukunda

Dear Mukunda,
I did read many times ago the verses at http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/Caitanya.html
But I consider some verses made-man additions.

Regards,
Orlando.

Mukunda
21 January 2007, 06:42 AM
Dear Mukunda,
I did read many times ago the verses at http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/Caitanya.html
But I consider some verses made-man additions.

Regards,
Orlando.

praNAm Orlando,

Just sruti reference alone is enough to say Lord Chaitanya is incarnation of God as Vedas are held as highest authority.

Does your consideration of man made verses belong to what mentioned in these sruti ?

Regards
Mukunda