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Believer
03 June 2011, 05:15 PM
Facts:

1. Netherlands is the only country which has assisted 'suicide laws' on its books. The attending physician may assist with the 'termination of life' if he follows a set of procedures, without the fear of being punished for this act.

2. In US, the states of Oregon, Washington and Montana have state 'Death with dignity' laws, which allow only the residents of those states to request medication for a 'self induced euthanasia' under the guidelines spelled out by the law. The doctor will not assist with the suicide by administering the lethal medication, but will make it possible for the patient to acquire it.

As Dr. Jack Kevorkian, the pioneer of 'death with dignity' efforts in the US passed away this morning at a Michigan hospital, my thoughts turned to the 'end if life' issues. Should sick humans be made to suffer as their lives are stretched out by modern technology/medicine? No one blinks when a suffering animal is put out of its misery; why should it be any less for us? Scriptures may not be able to fully guide us on this issue as back then, there were none of the toxins in existence to cause the horrible modern day diseases, and neither were the extra ordinary means available to prolong the agony of the suffering elderly by keeping them alive longer, sometimes in a vegetative state. Any thoughts on that?

-

Eastern Mind
03 June 2011, 05:31 PM
Vannakkam Believer: This was a somewhat related thread, albeit short. I know there's more but I couldn't find it. http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=5294&highlight=living+wills

I admire The Netherlands progressive stance. I'm not sure if I fully agree, but its certainly better than keeping someone alive in a vegetative state for as long as possible.

Aum Namasivaya

smaranam
03 June 2011, 06:08 PM
Namaste

Here is a vedic dhArmic article on the subject:
http://www.krishna.com/euthanasia-ending-pain

If i understand correctly , the term refers to "doctor-assisted-suicide" ? It is still a suicide. And suicide results in ghost , the kAraN sharir of mind + intelligence + false-ego (ahaMkAr) suffers even longer as a consequence.

Is it correct to say that not giving / stopping medical treating is different from doctor-assisted-suicide ? Then the person is at least dying a natural death.

For instance there are so many advanced cancer patients who refuse to undergo chemotherapy and they are given that right. This is different because they die a natural death as destined.

Would it be wrong to say that any cure for anything long-term should be somewhat close to natural remedies, rather than using advanced technology first and euthanasia in the end ?

praNAm

Jainarayan
03 June 2011, 06:51 PM
I admire The Netherlands progressive stance. I'm not sure if I fully agree, but its certainly better than keeping someone alive in a vegetative state for as long as possible.

Aum Namasivaya


Namaste BelieverJi

Here is a vedic dhArmic article on the subject:
http://www.krishna.com/euthanasia-ending-pain

Is it correct to say that not giving / stopping medical treating is different from doctor-assisted-suicide ? Then the person is at least dying a natural death.

For instance there are so many advanced cancer patients who refuse to undergo chemotherapy and they are given that right. This is different because they die a natural death as destined.



I watched, literally watched my mother die of end-stage ovarian cancer. That is, I was in the room when she took her last breath and opened and closed her eyes for the last time.

For weeks before that we saw her waste away and vomit so much dark green matter, and saw it collect in the hollow of her collarbone and neck, that it took me several towels to clean her. I'm sorry for the graphic image. She had refused chemo and said to the nurse she wanted to die now. But we have no law to permit that. We should.

Now, the Terry Schiavo case. I was very much in favor of taking her off life support. If there was any activity even in the lowest primitive part of her brain, it would have kept her alive. There wasn't and it didn't. Her family was just in denial of the inevitable.

Extraordinary measures to preserve existence but not life = no.

Terminal illness with the person first having stated their wishes for euthanasia = yes.

Someone correct me if I have this wrong, but even Lord Krishna told Arjuna that the body is mortal, the soul is immortal. The Lord told Arjuna to do what he had to do for the greater good, and if that including slaying his relatives, so be it. Isn't ending a terminal patient's suffering for the greater good of the patient and the family?

I'm no scholar, but my opinion is that when the body's end is near, but not letting go, the soul must be suffering and needs to be set free. Again, just my opinion and belief. Do take with a grain of salt.

charitra
03 June 2011, 10:49 PM
Namaste,

Iam in complete agreement with Dr Kevorkian and the concept of euthanasia in general, it is a shame the kind doctor was briefly imprisoned for helping a severely ill patient with his last wish- to die in dignity at a time and place of his choice. People should be given a chance to end life in dignity, and merely prolonging a human body’s life makes no (hindu) religious sense. It is common knowledge that Annamaya Kosha (body) is just a temporary abode and that atman leaves the dead body to acquire a new one and recommence punarjanma (rebirth). No king/govt has ever interfered with when a revered hindu monk chose entering mahasamadhi in the past, and hopefully in the future the policemen of human rights don’t challenge their religious right. That said, Iam not sure if Hinduism has allowed ordinary hindus to adopt mahasamadhi practice. Citing their magnanimous example, we ordinary hindus can make a case for euthanasia and boost the ongoing legal battle to draft a bill to make it our constitutional right..

(mahasamadhi is a standard practice adopted by gurus for centuries, wherein they undertake self chosen 'fast unto death', they refuse to take medications, water or food. Typically swamis take that position when they realize that the time for atman’s departure has come. By and large they are aged and their weakening bodies don’t complement their higher intellectial faculties. Their bodies are now more of a nuisance than an asset. Even younger swamis can resort to mahasamadhi once they know they are afflicted with some nagging prolonged illness that interferes with their ability to do what they love most, which is to meditate and attain bliss internally)

smaranam
04 June 2011, 09:49 AM
Namaste

Points i was trying to raise boil down to this:

Euthanasia is a very broad term. We are talking about voluntary euthanasia (obviously) or one where it is truly good intentioned but the person is not in a position to give permission.

Passive euthanasia
Passive euthanasia entails the withholding of common treatments, such as antibiotics, necessary for the continuance of life.

Active euthanasia
Active euthanasia entails the use of lethal substances or forces to kill and is the most controversial means.

- wikipedia.

Passive euthanasia is the right one IMHO.
Active euthanasia can potentially give rise to ghost-subtle-body (kAraN sharir) as i understand, which multiplies the suffering of that jiva N-fold. Ghosts also then inhibit places they have been and try to possess live human bodies.

That is why i ask - why use artificially advanced technology in the first place, if it is going to make passive euthanasia difficult ? I am sure there is more to this.

Neither is like maha samadhi as there is no dhyana yog process involved, but passive euthanasia seems to have the effect closer to maha samadhi and seems to be the only right kind.

BG 8.23: O best of the Bhāratas, I shall now explain to you the different times at which, passing away from this world, the yogī does or does not come back.
BG 8.24: Those who know the Supreme Brahman attain that Supreme by passing away from the world during the influence of the fiery god, in the light, at an auspicious moment of the day, during the fortnight of the waxing moon, or during the six months when the sun travels in the north.
BG 8.25: The mystic who passes away from this world during the smoke, the night, the fortnight of the waning moon, or the six months when the sun passes to the south reaches the moon planet but again comes back.
BG 8.26: According to Vedic opinion, there are two ways of passing from this world — one in light and one in darkness. When one passes in light, he does not come back; but when one passes in darkness, he returns.
BG 8.27: Although the devotees know these two paths, O Arjuna, they are never bewildered. Therefore be always fixed in devotion.

Real uttarayana (path of light) acc. to saints, is fixing mind on Bhagvan irrespective of the time of year and day.

praNAm

Believer
04 June 2011, 09:36 PM
Here is a vedic dhArmic article on the subject:
http://www.krishna.com/euthanasia-ending-pain

This article is an interesting read.
Is there a chapter and verse of the shastras available to back up the statement - 'By karmic law, one who commits suicide becomes a ghost.' ?

"The soul’s term in the human form is a type of captivity. How long he stays captive and how much he enjoys or suffers depend on his previous acts." - Could a terminally ill person choose to take his share of unfinished karmic suffering in a healthier body in his next reincarnation?

Actors merge 95% of their personal identity into the character they are playing, but hold back the other 5% to control that 95%. Similarly, we average humans may accept 95% of what the shastras say, and hold back the acceptance of the rest of the 5% subject to our intellectual filter. We basically like to weigh some of the concepts through our thinking/experiences/exposures and come out with statements like, 'IMHO ....', 'I believe that ......' and so on. We are either incapable of accepting everything from the scriptures, or our ego tells us that we can make a better 'informed' personal decision based on inputs from the shastras and 'real life experiences'. Therein lies the problem with accepting everything that is so well described in the article referenced above. When a 'Swami' goes beyond taking a position based on some 'scriptural referenced' material, and starts attacking the medical profession, the politicians and the 'godless' society, he looses some of his credibility. And what about the claim that the desire to seek out these 'assisted suicides' have been necessitated by the technology which will not let them die. The doctors have a vested interest in keeping them alive, as it brings in $$s.
-


Someone correct me if I have this wrong, but even Lord Krishna told Arjuna that the body is mortal, the soul is immortal. The Lord told Arjuna to do what he had to do for the greater good, and if that including slaying his relatives, so be it. Isn't ending a terminal patient's suffering for the greater good of the patient and the family?

Sorry to hear about the way your mother had to suffer towards the end of her life.
Your interpretation, quoted above, makes sense to me. But, I am sure it can be 'twisted' a hundred different ways to suit one's position.
-

smaranam
04 June 2011, 10:15 PM
Now, the Terry Schiavo case. I was very much in favor of taking her off life support. If there was any activity even in the lowest primitive part of her brain, it would have kept her alive. There wasn't and it didn't. Her family was just in denial of the inevitable.

Namaste,

Taking off the artificial life support is OK because it is passive euthanasia. It is not suicide because it is taking away what was added artificially. This is what i was saying in both the posts.

Active euthanasia means actually injecting a lethal substance into the body, and that interferes with the soul's path acc. to the article.

I am very sorry to hear about your mother. I pray to KrushNa to give me strength to read this thread, as i have never taken part in such conversation before.


And what about the claim that the desire to seek out these 'assisted suicides' have been necessitated by the technology which will not let them die.

Precisely, so why have the technology that artificially prolongs life and then euthanasia later ? If something has to be legalized and made the norm, it should be the movement towards a treatment closer to natural life process rather than active euthanasia.

Jai Shri KrushNa

Jainarayan
05 June 2011, 08:41 AM
Namaste,

Taking off the artificial life support is OK because it is passive euthanasia. It is not suicide because it is taking away what was added artificially. This is what i was saying in both the posts.

Active euthanasia means actually injecting a lethal substance into the body, and that interferes with the soul's path acc. to the article.

I am very sorry to hear about your mother. I pray to KrushNa to give me strength to read this thread, as i have never taken part in such conversation before.


Thanks, yes it's a really terrible thing to watch someone die.

I read your post and understand. I never considered that maybe opting out of this life and commiting suicide for whatever reason is not fulfilling karma. Maybe it's that person's karma to have to endure whatever physical, emotional or mental pain and illness until their karma is fulfilled.

This raises some questions that plague every faith. That is, how theologians interpret and comment on scriptures.For example, Christians take the Hebrew bible, the Torah, and think they have a full command on what it says. Yet Jewish scholars, for whom it was written study it deeper and say the opposite of what Christians say.

Not to split hairs, but if we believe that a soul can reincarnate into anything, isn't it just as wrong to terminate a sick animal's life thereby "cheating" its karma? Well, maybe not since the animal can't make the choice and maybe it's destined to be sent to its next life by its humans. OK, maybe I'm going way out there now.

As Believer said, and it's true, any quotation can be twisted or manipulated to suit one's beliefs or need. Shakespeare said even the devil can quote Scripture to his purpose.

I don't foresee assisted suicide becoming legal in the US any time in the near future, though if it does, it will be up to believers to decide, then accept the consequences.

It's a mess in the making.

Eastern Mind
05 June 2011, 09:24 AM
Not to split hairs, but if we believe that a soul can reincarnate into anything, isn't it just as wrong to terminate a sick animal's life thereby "cheating" its karma?

Vannakkam Minotaur: Not all Hindus believe that. I don't. I believe that there are a couple of circumstances where humans, because of karma, could become animals that are close to humans, but that's it.

I like to think that nature should take its course in these matters. Prolonging life with intrusive methods is a boon to science not humanity.

it is said that aged Inuit people just went for a long walk when they were no longer useful to the group. No doubt it was the individual's choice.

Aum Namasivaya

smaranam
05 June 2011, 10:13 AM
Namaste


Is there a chapter and verse of the shastras available to back up the statement - 'By karmic law, one who commits suicide becomes a ghost.' ?

I am simply giving the quote for information, it is not my place to make any judgement or statement. Please forgive me.

Garuda Purana 2.22.8-13: "Those who meet with foul death such as 
committing suicide by hanging from a tree, by poison or weapon,
.....
...
..
become ghosts and roam over the earth."


Removal of Life Support
According to Vedic principles, removal of life support systems is justified when the assistive device is the major impediment to the death process. Ayurveda also allows for suspension of hydration and nourishment at the request of a terminally ill patient who chooses to fast, even if such fasting will accelerate death. Prayopavesha, voluntary fasting unto death for those who are terminally ill, is to be undertaken only under the authority and with the blessings of senior members of the patientís faith.

Suicide
According to sastra, suicide postpones and intensifies karma. However, as stated above, Ayurvedic ethics allow prayopavesha, voluntary death by fasting. The patient making such a decision must declare it publicly, to distinguish the act from suicide committed privately in traumatic emotional states of anguish and despair, and to allow for family and religious community intervention. Prayopavesha is allowed when the patient is unable to perform normal bodily purification, death appears imminent, and pain and suffering are extreme (such that mitigating them would entail loss of consciousness). Prayopavesha is gradual, and allows the patient to reflect and reconsider his/her decision. After due deliberation, voluntary fasting unto death should be undertaken as sadhana, with the support of a community of faith.

- Kj. Nimai Nitai Das (formerly writing for this journal as Murari Chaitanya dasa) is a Preceptor in the Suddha Ayurveda Vidyalaya, and an Asst. Clinical Professor of Family Medicine & Community Health at Tufts University School of Medicine. He can be reached at PositiveAyurveda@comcast.net



Although the Vedas reject the suicide, dying by fasting (prayopavista) is the only authorized, karma-free way to die. An example is Maharaja Pariksit (SB 1.4.10, 1.19.5,7,12,18, 12.12.57).

- vedabase


Not to split hairs, but if we believe that a soul can reincarnate into anything, isn't it just as wrong to terminate a sick animal's life thereby "cheating" its karma?

Yes, although it may sound harsh and cruel, people who advocate passive over active have the same thing to say about animals, pets. It is not our business to interfere with the soul's path and short-circuit the animal's karma, rather leave the terminally ill animal alone with food and water and pray for it, pray to alleviate its pain in this body, chant Mahamantra, KrushNa's holy names, kirtan ...

Jai Shri KrushNa

praNAm

Jainarayan
05 June 2011, 02:07 PM
Vannakkam Minotaur: Not all Hindus believe that. I don't. I believe that there are a couple of circumstances where humans, because of karma, could become animals that are close to humans, but that's it.

Ah, one learns something new every day. Thanks. ;)



Prolonging life with intrusive methods is a boon to science not humanity.

Without a doubt.


it is said that aged Inuit people just went for a long walk when they were no longer useful to the group. No doubt it was the individual's choice.

Aum Namasivaya

I've heard that too. There is a very old movie (the 1960s, probably) with Anthony Quinn as an Inuit. The movie was called The Savage Innocents. I remember the scene where his mother-in-law felt her life was coming to its end. She went out to sit on the ice. The last thing you saw was a polar bear approaching, as the family moved on with their possessions on the sled. It was sad.

sashin govinda
27 May 2015, 07:25 PM
Hello,

I am currently doing an assignment at school relating to euthanasia and the connections between Hinduism,
I have created a short survey to assist in my research, if any of you could please complete the short survey (3 mins) it would be a major help.
link below:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZT66SFY

Regards Sashin Govinda

Believer
05 October 2015, 04:47 PM
Namaste,

California Governor signs the 'right to die' bill into law.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/05/us/california-assisted-dying-legislation/index.html

Pranam.

Aanandinii
08 October 2015, 12:25 PM
Namaskar ji,

This thread reminds me of one of my early posts, which was a question of if an individual could actually die "before their time" or not. Can a life be cut short. I was not really talking about suicide there, though if I recall it was brought up. At the time the general response was 'no, most likely not', or at least that's what I understood from the replies. So, if that really is the case, how does suicide then cut a person's life short? There are plenty of people who attempt and fail. Could it not be said that those who succeed it was really their time and those who failed, it wasn't? Or if it does create a ghost as mentioned in an earlier post, then perhaps that is actually that person's matured karmic fruit and a part of their path - even if it's a sad one?

This is a very difficult and emotionally charged subject. I too have watched loved ones die slowly, and helped to care for them. Some from cancer, one from Alzheimer's. In that last case, I got to watch him slowly lose his mind and his self, too. As this happened, the brief moments when he would come back to himself were some of the worst. It's one thing to sit next to your father or grandfather and have him tell you that you should meet (insert you own name here) because you're so much like that person and would be great friends. But to have to carry them to toilet and help clean them, then have them come back to themselves and realize and see the shame, horror and embarrassment of it... there is NO dignity in this at all. It's a form of torture.

Even now, I do not know where I stand on this issue. I would have liked to spare each of my loved ones this, but while one is still alive there is also still hope for a cure or treatment coming into clinical trial or getting approved for use... I have also seen a dear loved one fight a cancer that has a 95% chance of re-occurance, and win. I don't know what is right here, but what I know is I am no judge. And people should have the right to choose for themselves. Without judgement. So I support that bill.

Regardless, if anyone has very strong feelings about their own care, and choices to be made if they are not personally capable, and if that person lives in a country where they can define their own choices in advance, then the best thing you can do for yourself and your loved ones is to create a 'Living Will' explaining the choices you would make for yourself, if in any of these situations and unable to make the decisions yourself at that time. Don't leave it to a trusted loved one - what if they are unavailable or become conflicted despite knowing your wishes. Write it, include any scenarios you can think of, if you can then have a lawyer look it over, and have it notarized - or whatever equivalent exists in countries besides the US. Keep a copy on your person, like you do your ID and wallet. Give copies to loved ones and/or your physician and have a talk with them about it. Don't put off doing it if it is an option where you live, and if you have strong feelings in any direction.

I hope and pray I will never have to be in a position where I have to make any such decisions for a loved one. Most of mine have Living Wills, so have made their own choices for themselves already.

~Pranam

ShivaFan
25 October 2015, 04:02 PM
There are some yogis who have literally starved themselves to death, and we might hear to siddha yogis who cut off their own head to offer to Divine, or some priest who burns himself alive (self-immolation) in protest over some abuse of his or her religious community or in dire warning of some pending disaster due to sin, and so on. Or a wife who enters the funeral pyre, or Royal ladies who all burn themselves to death or take poison rather than be raped by conquering demons or thugs.

There are other examples, none of which have anything to do with such "right to die" laws pushed as part of agendas.

First of all, the not so secret "secret", at least here in California, is that since the 1950s if some suffering patient in constant, and hopeless condition of pain and who will die anyway, the patient let's the doctor know it is time and the doctor would overdose or give the a mix of injections and so on, and the patient would die. This is not "right to die", it was done anyway and a known fact.

It is a well known and not so secret "secret", in war, if a soldier is found far in the field critcally wounded, going to die, no way to get the boy out and away from the enemy, the field person will shoot them in the head or give them an overdose of morphine. They will say to Congress it is not done. But it is. Again, absolutely nothing to do with "right to die". The field commanders have their unwritten laws and they do it.

These same doctors also would not support so called "right to die" laws even though they would at times administer a final death to a patient in extreme condition and pain. Why would they oppose?

The same reason I oppose. It has been shown time and again in history, once written in law then you will have the situation of elder abuse - bad children or relatives or "guardians" who releatedly abuse elders, or even children, as "useless" (they don't even want to feed them, they are so selfish and greedy or want to steal their property or other, they never liked the girl who married their son and so on), and with the flimsy of excuses commit mental totrture on the person who may actually be suffering from some handicap or ailment but nothing to the extent to end one's life, and then the relentless abuse and duress and presure and repeated calls "why don't you just kill yourself!?!". They abuse them to the point, and make them feel so unloved and unwanted, they reach a point where they actually want to die, now legal, and give a corrupt doctor the permission to kill them. The doctor gets a cut of money or bribe or status or favor.

Don't think so? Think so, because it is true and there are very cruel people in this world.

It happens when you have laws making this legal. Sure, it happens even when not legal, but much, much more of this abuse when legal to get rid of a parent in an expensive long term care home or simply to abuse and get rid of them to steal property or other. It will now happen in California if indeed this "law" is what I hear it is. Fools who support it now, and later in life when they become "useless" to their children of a bad upbringing, will find out the truth.

And there is zero connection between such "laws" and yogic "suicide".

Believer
25 October 2015, 11:54 PM
Namaste,


Fools who support it now, and ......
ShivaFan, we still respect you and your opinion, even though you call us names.
Just ease up on eating too many fiery hot peppers before making posts. :)

Pranam.

bhaswathy
07 November 2015, 05:46 AM
Dear friends ,
Just as a person wan ts to live in dignity , he should be allowed to die in dignity . Like in any other area , there could be some mischief in this area too . But still I feel a person should have the freedom to die if he or she is terminally ill. Netherlands Govt should be praised for this decision.

Anirudh
09 November 2015, 06:05 AM
Namaste

Funny people and their equally funny judiciary. Who has given you (government/state/country/organization/donkey?) the right to judge my pain and pleasure?

And to those who support this, I have got a question. Sincerely hope the supporter(s) won't be a hypocrite.

As a biological parent will you go against the generally accepted norms (or the law of land or whatever) if two of your children decide to marry among themselves?

PS: I am tempted to join the conversation although this is old thread restarted by a new comer.

Aanandinii
12 November 2015, 07:44 AM
Namaste

Funny people and their equally funny judiciary. Who has given you (government/state/country/organization/donkey?) the right to judge my pain and pleasure?

And to those who support this, I have got a question. Sincerely hope the supporter(s) won't be a hypocrite.

As a biological parent will you go against the generally accepted norms (or the law of land or whatever) if two of your children decide to marry among themselves?

PS: I am tempted to join the conversation although this is old thread restarted by a new comer.
Namaste Anirudh Ji,

First, that you posted at all means you have joined the conversation, regardless of whether you try to derail it with off-topic strawmen or not.

Second, I know I'll probably regret validating your post with any kind of a response, but what on earth does incest have anything to do with euthanasia, DNRs, and the right to choose your own time of death rather than a long, painful and drawn out one?

~Pranam

bhaswathy
12 November 2015, 11:25 PM
Dear friend ,
Some time back I met with an accident . The trauma , physical as well as mental left me in great pain . I almost had a nervous break down . But I was perfectly in a position to think and take an action . With all the verdicts of doctors I really felt that there is no point in livingWith the three main arteries 90% blocked , with all the other problems associated with the accident and trauma , There was no point in living . I literally begged and cried and fought with all the people around me to let me go . Doctors said that they do not have any right . Immediate family members also said that they deo not have decide any thing .Iwas arguing with them saying thsat it would not come under thwe list of sin or crime . But no body accepted . I had to surrender to their pressure and with lot of physical and mental pain , I had to be in the hospital for three weeks . Even then doctors said that no operation could be done on my heart since I was in no position to take that . Ultimately I came out with least complications . Now I am in a perfectly fit condition .
Now they are telling , '' had we conceded it could have had been a grave mistake on our part''.But at that point I really, very sincerely with all my wish and will I welcomed death . Even now I feel that would not have been a mistake . I always feel that we all have to leave just as we go a function and party , we come , rather go back to our house once the party is over and we do not overstay . In that sense I feel one can decide whether to stay or not depending upon their love and interest in life . It should be purely personal choice.
At least if one has responsibilities or commitments one does not have an option except to face the life and challenges as they come . But in case old and infirm people who do not have any responsibilities wish to go in dignity they should be allowed .But this is a view only and it need not necessarily be in agreement with other's views . If it is against others' views , I tender an apology for hurting their sentiments

Anirudh
13 November 2015, 07:52 AM
Namaste Aanandini ji



what on earth does incest have anything to do with euthanasia, DNRs, and the right to choose your own time of death rather than a long, painful and drawn out one?

People in love wouldn't care how they are related. I have seen quite a few cases. Call it love/lust/madness, I see that as deviation from the generally accepted norms to fulfill their pleasure.

This body the vehicle given by the almighty has to bear the fruits no matter it is pleasant or painful so that the purpose of the birth is met. Trying to destroy it and legalizing that actions on certain condition s is as good as giving into desire.

I will give you another example:

Terrorist s blew themselves to spread terror. Soldier die to protect the country. Both are aware that they are destroying their body for a cause/desire. Will you support terrorism or patriotism although GOD didn't created borders?

If body is abused by an external tormentor and if the body is sacrificed to protect its integrity then I can accept the logic...

You/I/anyone are terminally ill because you are reaping the fruits of your past actions. You can alter the course of illness by fighting against the illness but succumbing to the pain is not done.

I learnt this principle in a very hard way.

bhaswathy
13 November 2015, 08:29 AM
Dear friend , It is all a matter of acceptance by the body and mind . No body understands the trauma undergone by a person in the face of calamity . What is right or wrong who can decide. Of course as a staunch believer of karma theory , I have to take what is served in my platter , though intense devotion to Ishtadevatha gives strength to face the ordeal and OuI shtadevatha gives a boon , such that , a very big danger could be reduced to a minor problem .

Believer
13 November 2015, 09:35 AM
Namaste,


Now I am in a perfectly fit condition .
Sorry to hear about all your problems. Hope you stay healthy and enjoy many years of sadhana at Varanasi.

Pranam.

bhaswathy
13 November 2015, 10:09 PM
Dear friend ,
It is our actions which decide our births ansd deaths . Karma is not a bad word which is used in a general sense . Karma means action . What ever we do we have to face the consequences .All relationships whether of relatives , friends ,others are the culminations of our actions . When once the karmic debt is oner , either that particular person dies or gets away from our life . In this whole process God is only a silent spectator.God is cosmic energy . He or she does not have any name , form or attribute . It is we who have given all those names , forms or attributes depending upon our attributes . what we do in words or deeds or thoughts gets materialised in another
plane ,time and place. Of course this type of thinking makes people to react in an irresponsible way . so it is said that we should not commit any suicide , the body is a vehicle given by God etc . Even now I feel that if a person does not have any responsibilities , needs of meeting certain comitments , has lived the life fully , is not in a position to live in dignity or facing excruciating pain , he or she should be allowed to decide whether to go or stay back. Fortunately I have come out of all the trauma or else I could have been in a veritable hell .I always believe that there is cause and reason for everything.So it is an inexplicable reason which made me to come back which is going to be unfolded in course of time.
With due respect to your opinion Bhaswathy

bhaswathy
13 November 2015, 10:11 PM
Dear believer,
Thank you very much for your good wishes

ajay
03 December 2015, 01:16 AM
Namaste all, :)

I remember reading that the Jain tradition have the practice of santhara/sallekhana, wherein the very elderly or those in extreme stages of disease and ill-health, take the practice of abstaining from food and water and facing death voluntarily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallekhana


Veer Savarkar too for that matter,at the age of 82, practiced santhara or self-euthanasia , terming it as atmaarpan (fast until death). He had earlier penned an article titled "Atmahatya Nahi Atmaarpan" , in which he stated that when one's life mission as well as faculties and ability to serve society is exhausted, it is better to embrace death at will rather than waiting passively for it. Savarkar completely renounced all water, food and medicines during this fast.

So one can say that there is a tradition of euthanasia in India which had been practiced by the very elderly and infirm, when they felt that they were not in a position of health to do their duties to self or society and wished to end their lives in a dignified manner.

bhaswathy
03 December 2015, 10:31 PM
Dear friend ,
That's great , the feat achieved by Veer Savarkar. I could not practice that . But I stopped all allopathic medicines , the blood thinners , anticoagulants , Bp medicines , Insulin , pain killers --- literally everything , but had taken homeopathic medicines all my own prescriptions . This piece of information is given by me because I want to state that well selected homeopathic medicines definitely give good results . According to the verdict of modern medical school , with out their medicines , I could have been dead by september. But the piece of information given by you is really great and inspiring .