When you don't feel worthy to offer

[Jainarayan]

Namaste all.

Last night I lost my temper over something I should not have. I could have handled the situation differently. Rather, I chose to get angry. After that I refused to do my evening prayers and offerings because I was in such a state of anger. It would have been disrespectful and irreverent, imo.

After I was thoroughly calmed down, I did my prayers, lit my lamp, offered incense and did japa at the altar. I felt much more peaceful, and even forgiven.

Has this ever happened to any of you? Have you ever been in a state or condition where you felt it would be "sacreligious" to attend temple, perform puja, say prayers or japa or otherwise worship?

I did not like the feeling at all, and I hope it never happens again.

[SOV]

Yes, I have gone through such situations a lot of times. I wasn't even thinking about god out of shame for many days. But then after a while I used to demand forgiveness.

[Jainarayan]

Yes, shame is the word! Though I did my morning ritual with love. I'm listening to my collection of bhajans, and am feeling more uplifted, though I'm still somewhat ashamed of myself. :(

Thank you.

[SOV]

Yes. And I forgot to add, If possible I will do my best to repair the damage. Like for example, once I scolded my sister badly for a petty reason. Then I repented and bought her some chocolates and a new gadget(although I don't approve of kids using gadgets excessively) to make her happy. I still couldn't apologize for the fault though. I am also glad that she forgets those things and moves on with same respect to me.

[Mana]

Namasté Minotaur

Is there any way that you can make this event in to a positive one by learning from it?

I find analysing the causes of such flare ups to be most calming in future situations. It makes us more aware of our own capacity's and weaknesses.

Was this Rajas at work?

Were you in a Satvic state when Tamas showed its self all but briefly to bring on Rajas?

Was this solely Tamas?

All good learning experience to meditate on.


Om Shanti

[Arjuni]

Namasté, all.

Minotaur, I used to feel unworthy to offer or do puja unless everything was just perfect - not only my mental and emotional state, but everything around me and in my home. If laundry or dishes needed washing, for instance, I felt like my house wasn't good enough.

But, if it helps at all - I learned to laugh at it.

We're so much in love with our Devas that we obsess over giving them flawless devotion, but we shouldn't forget that worship is for us too. Don't you want to help a friend in need, give a shoulder to someone who's crying? Don't our loved ones, no matter how much higher above us, want to do the same?

Shame over time leads to low self-esteem, and people who hate themselves tend to get angry with others more frequently because there's a big hole in their hearts that they wait for others to fill. So, even though it's motivated by good intentions (a desire to do better and be a better person), shame actually can take you further from God. It has a place only when you think yourself "worthy" or "unworthy" based on your successes. But God doesn't see us that way, I think, and as a teacher of mine recently wrote, "Purity is not a boolean variable (0 or 1); it is a continuum."

Shame is also a little funny and ridiculous when you think about it. Isn't God everywhere, at all times? Did your beloved Krishna somehow miss you getting angry at the time it happened? So there's no point in hiding from his worship when you're ashamed; it's better to go say hello instead. Set a ghee lamp alight. Let it burn away your anger and then look at the beautiful light that's created when you have the courage to look anger straight in the face. Better to pray when you're happy and when you're upset, to suffuse your life with His grace no matter what state you're in.

SOV and Mana both make good points. Such experiences can prove fertile grounds for meditation, to teach you about yourself and help improve in the future, so in that sense, incidences of anger can be lessons instead of failures. It's also great to help mitigate the damage, if it's possible to do so, and that can teach you humility and understanding. I would not enter a temple in a negative state, no, so as to avoid carrying my bad energy with me to other devotees, and I might not tackle a ritualistic worship such as puja because I tend to forget items and/or details when I'm upset. But prayer and meditation are more needed in times of strain than ever.

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

[Jainarayan]

Namaste SOV, and thanks. :)


Yes. And I forgot to add, If possible I will do my best to repair the damage. Like for example, once I scolded my sister badly for a petty reason. Then I repented and bought her some chocolates and a new gadget

Ooh, please yell at me then apologize so I can get chocolate! :Roll:


Namasté Minotaur

Is there any way that you can make this event in to a positive one by learning from it?

I always "learn" afterwards, but they happen from time to time. I'll tell you why, though I'm reluctant to reveal much about myself. Not that anyone would use it against me.

See, I have bipolar 2 disorder. I don't have the high manias of type 1, but I'm prone to anger and then deep depression. I'm what's called hypomanic/depressive (depressive, not depressing, I'm actually pretty funny irl :p). I'm on medication, but the nature of the beast is that it flares up mostly when I'm tired and my guard is down..


Was this Rajas at work?

OK, I had to look that up. :D

Rajas:
rajas, is responsible for motion, energy and preservation.

There was definitely an energy at work, like the electrical energy build-up before a lightning strike.


Were you in a Satvic state when Tamas showed its self all but briefly to bring on Rajas?

Was this solely Tamas?

All good learning experience to meditate on.


Om Shanti

I was definitely not sattvic. I think it was the drive home (a 50 minute commute), and stops at several stores, in the heat that laid the basis for me going tamasic. It was definitely tamas, if that refers to negativity and indifference.

I sat for a while, quietly doing something, just "fidoodling" as I call it. Actually I made a hanging lamp for my image of Sri Radha-Krishna (the one I showed in another post). It began my focus on the Lord. The lamp is quite pretty. I can use a tealight candle or a traditional diya in it. It made me feel good to do that.

[Jainarayan]

Namasté, all.

Minotaur, I used to feel unworthy to offer or do puja unless everything was just perfect - not only my mental and emotional state, but everything around me and in my home. If laundry or dishes needed washing, for instance, I felt like my house wasn't good enough.

Oh, tell me about it! I'm the worst. It's part of being obsessive-compusive, in my case. Before I even touch an idol to straighten up or clean the altar I wash my hands. If I am playing with the cat and dogs evven just petting them, hands get washed. The irony is that Lord Krishna loves animals. And if I don't feel bodily clean enough, it's into the shower I go, or at least a good washing of my face, hands, arms and um... well...


We're so much in love with our Devas that we obsess over giving them flawless devotion, but we shouldn't forget that worship is for us too. Don't you want to help a friend in need, give a shoulder to someone who's crying? Don't our loved ones, no matter how much higher above us, want to do the same?

Yep, that's why as I think on the Lord and listen to my bhajans and mantras (what would we do without Youtube and iTunes? :Roll: ) I feel uplifted, having received compassion.



Did your beloved Krishna somehow miss you getting angry at the time it happened? So there's no point in hiding from his worship when you're ashamed; it's better to go say hello instead. Set a ghee lamp alight. Let it burn away your anger and then look at the beautiful light that's created when you have the courage to look anger straight in the face. Better to pray when you're happy and when you're upset, to suffuse your life with His grace no matter what state you're in.

True, being that "all-or-nothing" guy I am (a project I am working on, to get rid of), I could have asked for His help instead of turning my back on Him.


I would not enter a temple in a negative state, no, so as to avoid carrying my bad energy with me to other devotees, and I might not tackle a ritualistic worship such as puja because I tend to forget items and/or details when I'm upset. But prayer and meditation are more needed in times of strain than ever.

Yep, I agree with all the foregoing.

[Mana]

Yes I know the Bi-Polar thing well, I was diagnosed Bi-polar 1 at 19. But I refused medication and skipped the country ;)

I feel your pain with it. It has taken me 15 years to unravel the Karma which provoked it, with several breakthroughs in just this last few years.

I highly reccomend the yoga sutras for explanation of the Gunas.

The emotional swings of Bi-polar are to my understanding and experience caused by the Gunas of this there is no doubt in my mind.

As are many of the more esoteric passages better understood after experience of mania.


Om Shanti.

[Jainarayan]

I've got to look into all this. I want to get off the medications, but it can't be done suddenly. I wonder if it's possible to experience prarabdha karma from kriyamana karma, you know "fast-acting karma". If so, I think this is one reason I am the way I am. I also think of other issues in my life that show me I was uncompassionate in these areas previously, as well as this issue.

[Mana]

I certainly don't recommend stopping meds quickly. But I do believe that you could achieve this with the right support. Practise of Raja yoga is essential for success.

Karma for me is experienced very rapidly. I believe this Is the cause of Bi-Polar mood swings. It is never to be taken lightly how ever. People die and kill for Rajas and Tamas. Which is why the docs give out meds.

They should however call it Tri-Polar it is just that the doctors don't see the Satva predominant cases.

Don't do any thing hastily, I would suggest that you seek a Doctor who thinks Jungian as opposed to Freud.

When you are ready, an established Guru.


Om Shanti.

[NayaSurya]

I can get angry still, it's a rare thing to do this...as I do understand my role here.

But, just as anger, sadness can make you feel apprehensive also and I do have this happen time to time.

Oki so lastnight we got our home appraisal and the man completely botched it...he had our bedrooms/bathrooms...and so many things wrong which brought our house down from where it belong.

This makes the loan impossible till he fix. Now, since the man came out I have put this in Beloved's hands...I felt we were being pushed in this direction and did my best to rise to this challenge of getting our home in satisfactory condition for the man to see.

But, lastnight after the man mess this appraisal up, I became upset, sad frustrated. After weeks of smootly accepting that things must go as they must go...I broke slightly.

I rose from my bed and began to pray to beloved. But, instead of praying for this to be fixed I prayed for the list of others I often pray for and the special others I have promised.

This refinance is a big deal, freeing up so much money each month to make our lives peaceful and very easy. But I simply sang...and prayed for these other things so precious.

Then at the end I pray and say...Beloved I have done every single thing you have called me to do...and no matter what...despite the very death of my own child in my arms I tell you I can NOT be moved from your Feet. They can not move me...and I give this all to you...as you...Beloved...Beloved Everything are Everything and I love you with all of this heart bursting. Nothing can move me Beloved. I was born in this realm...but never left Your Precious Feet.

Suddenly a voice...so calm, filled with such love come to me. In my whole body it rang out and said..."Leave this to Him."

I do, even if I loose everything...
Nothing remove me of this space I inhabit.

Even today, quite moved by the memory of this Beautiful Voice. Come to me in a moment of true frustration.

When I am sad, frustrated...sleepy, angry....doing laundry...this is the perfect time to sing to Beloved. For this tells Him...see? Even now...even when it's good...or bad...or crazy...or dinner time...or birthday party...or fun at beach...or cheering at game....or kissing Beloved Ron's lips....all of this...is for You Beloved<3

Let your shame fall away, begin anew...fix what you can and use the moment as a tool for better knowing how to go further. Never feel badly to come to Beloved in every moment. Believe me...it makes the World of difference!<3

[Jainarayan]

Oh no, I wouldn't stop cold-turkey. The effects are unpleasant. Brain-zaps. I have a psychiatric MD, and a talk therapist. Both of them feel I'm light years ahead of where I was before.

I used to scoff at people who'd say "turn to God", but I sure am thinking differently now!

It's good to know that someone understands this from a different perspective. ;)

[Jainarayan]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear all that. My friend went through just about the same thing selling his house. But you realized too to put it into God's hands and ask for help. I have to ask more often for help. If you don't ask, you don't get.

[NayaSurya]

I think it was GuruDeva From HA who said that the Deva are listening...but you have to be very specific with them. So way back in January I went through the whole refinance process one night to the corner of my bedroom...just in case.:p

It was so funny because the next day we were approved for the loan process...so then I really began to think about all the things we need help with and are never specific enough for them to be able to help.

"Oh please Devas...help me get this test out of the way!" and then sure enough it's over and you failed.

I think it was the hardest for this one so OCD to relinquish the "controls" and just let it be. Even though most of those "controls" reminded me of when in Kindergarten we made a space ship out of refidgerator boxes with painted on control knobs.:p

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: In a sense, one should never feel worthy. But somewhere there is a fine line between respectful humility, and downright personal unhealthy self-battering that one must walk, or nothing ever gets done.

I remember reading a swami's advice to younger swamis about devotees touching their feet in respect, and all that. Chant the mantra: "I do not deserve this." So it's quite the dance we have set out upon.

Personally, I look to Bhairava for the solution to this predicament. I am always grateful for His help in resolving. He allowed this soul into this religion, this temple, so somehow, although I rarely feel worthy, if its okay with Him, it must be okay. For He is the gatekeeper. Check your ego at the door.

Aum Namasivaya

[Jainarayan]

I think it was GuruDeva From HA who said that the Deva are listening...but you have to be very specific with them.

I've heard that before, but on TV. :rolleyes:

There was an episode of Xena Warrior Princess called The Way. It took place in India, and featured Sri Krishna and Sri Hanuman. True, many Hindus were up in arms about it, but there was a disclaimer that there was no intention to offend anyone.

Anyway, that aside... Sri Hanuman made a comment that sometimes one has to try really hard to get the attention of the Gods for your needs.


Vannakkam: In a sense, one should never feel worthy. But somewhere there is a fine line between respectful humility, and downright personal unhealthy self-battering that one must walk, or nothing ever gets done.



Yes, I guess if you feel worthy, that can come dangerously close to hubris.

And then on the other hand, it's dangerously close to second-guessing God by beating ourselves up, when He doesn't.

Yep, there's that fine line.

[sunyata07]

Namaste everyone,

Minotaur, I go through this an awful lot. It's a horrible self-perpetuating loop that can eat away at your thoughts if you don't be aware and watch out for that voice that loves to point out the negatives. First, you have that feeling of being "unworthy" and decide to refrain from performing worship, or even praying to God. You then wonder how you could be so silly to feel this, and then lament at how much you deem yourself unworthy, feeding the cycle all over again. It's something like when a person going through a depressive phase starts berating himself for having felt depressed in the first place. Why should you feel like this? And then it evolves into "Why should you feel like this about feeling like this?" I hope I haven't confused anyone with that observation.

I am guilty of a particularly bad reaction some months ago. It haunts me to this day, although I have chosen not to forget it just yet, because I use it from time to time as a strong reminder of what can happen when you let loose the animal side of your person. Let's just say I greatly violated the first yama, and on all three levels: thought, word and deed. I won't go into the details, mostly because I am too ashamed to speak of them here. Afterwards, I was living in a cocoon of shame and regret for many days, almost afraid to go anywhere near God in my thoughts. Eventually, I couldn't bear the guilt and wanted forgiveness from God, so I spent the next few days constantly reciting the Karacharana Kritam. I felt like not even God could forgive me what I'd done. Even to the present, I don't feel like I've fully repaid for that karma. But now I know that while I'm forgiven, there's that bit of action to be paid back. It's sort of like knocking over some valuable in a shop and then breaking it. In reality, there's no harm done when you apologise, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be the one to pay for it.

Some great answers from the members here. I agree that one should never feel unworthy when it comes to God, or not perfect enough to pray to Him. Shame is a sign of the lessening of one's ego, the beginning of its demise. Rather than hold onto self-blame or self-pity, recognise the lesson that has been offered to you, promise to learn from it in the future, and then let God forgive you. Ultimately, only you can let the forgiveness happen.



But somewhere there is a fine line between respectful humility, and downright personal unhealthy self-battering that one must walk, or nothing ever gets done.


Agreed. Consciously allow your ego to dissipate as you approach God, but don't keep beating yourself up. What's the use in that?

Om namah Shivaya

[Jainarayan]

Namaste sunyata,

I know exactly what you are saying. I empathize with you, in its true meaning of feeling what you are talking about. I won't go into detail either, as I am too ashamed. Those sorts of things haunt me too. I've done things years ago, 20 years ago, 5 years ago, 2 years ago, 8 years ago, for which I may never forgive myself, though I know I was forgiven by those I did the wrong to. What hurts most is that you are forgiven, if that makes sense. I think it's necessary to carry that hurt as the lesson to never let it happen again. We need our pain.

[Ramakrishna]

Namaste all,

I think we all, being human, have gone through situations like Minotaur and Sunyata describe. I know I have. The most important thing I've learned is to never feel completely unworthy of praying or turning to God. In the past when I was in a situation like that, I would completely neglect my established sadhana due to this feeling of "unworthiness" and would not pray at all for a while. I've found that it is difficult to do my sadhana when I am like that, but it is still important to turn to God in one way or another. I personally have found meditation and personal prayer to be the most useful in these situations. Tell God your problems and ask for forgiveness and guidance and also meditate on what happened and how you can prevent that from happening to improve yourself as a human being. After doing that for a while, I feel "worthy" enough of going back to my established sadhana. The important thing is just to learn from your mistakes and know that God is always there. See my signature :)

Jai Sri Ram

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I don't know if this will be helpful or not. Another couple of strategies I use is to allow breaks, and lower expectations. It certainly depends on the personality. Some who suffer from what I call 'perfectionist disorder' will find it more difficult. As an observation, I see this more in western adoptives or converts than in born Hindus. People in the workplace with this 'disorder' usually end up crashing from burnout.

At our festival, I felt "if I can get to 7 days out of 10, that'll be good" . Turned out I got to 9 out of 10. Same thing with sadhana. When you imprint 'daily sadhana' as a rule into your subconscious, what happens when you travel, become very ill with the flu, or need to parent a child in the sense of taking one to the hospital?

I see no harm in allowing breaks. Mental health days. Just do something different for a day. Go watch a cricket game. "A change is as good as a rest." has wisdom.

I did the spiritual longer break for 3 years or so about 15 years back. Boss and I bought a motorcycle, I was off work, I wrote, we hung out. I got away from Ganesha's grasp. But He eventually caught up again. Second time around, I feel healthier about it all.

Aum Namasivaya

[sunyata07]

Namaste EM,

Thank you for your post. Before now, I had never considered these breaks positively. If I missed a day, I would spend the next day in agitation at the continuity I had lost. I think you're spot on about the perfectionism. But it's easy to get caught up in putting your all into your spiritual practice. Maybe this is more true for converts, as you pointed out (Out of curiosity: Were you like this when you first converted? Somehow I just can't picture it!). Hopefully, this habit of feeling like you're unworthy begins to dissipate with a little age and experience.

Om namah Shivaya

[Eastern Mind]

(Out of curiosity: Were you like this when you first converted? Somehow I just can't picture it!).

Vannakkam: Yes I was. Daily sadhana was a 'must'. If I missed a day, I'd do double time make-up the next day. It got to be frustrating, keeping a job, being a parent, being the pandaram priest first once a week, then twice a week. I did burn out. If it weren't for my Guru (Ganesha via the guru maybe ... whatever) putting out the 'hook' for me, I don't know if I'd have ever returned. But I guess it was something like the teenager who strays for awhile, but eventually returns home. The realistic goals is so important. Now my sadhana is 20 minutes max, and I probably only get it done 9 days of 10. Like two days ago, my son was here from Ottawa. Let's see ... visit my son and his fiance, or do sadhana. Well, its a no brainer now. Years ago, I would have had to think about it.

Generally speaking, I think converts to any faith are usually more rambunctious about the new faith and practise. Certainly its true amongst Christians. But it is kind of natural. Like going to the amusement park for the first time, and then just HAVING to tell everyone. :)

I still don't see myself as a convert, oddly. I still retain the distinction between adoptive and convert. It was a discovery.


But as we age, it does get better. I became less attached to perfectionism at work, with sadhana, and a lot of other things. Just more relaxed ... partly out of necessity, and partly out of watching my Tamil friends. Its much much better this way. In fact, I've actually seen a divorce because one of the pair got too religious. Now there's a contradiction.

Aum Namasivaya

[Jainarayan]

As an observation, I see this more in western adoptives or converts than in born Hindus.

Yeah, we converts are the worst! :D