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TatTvamAsi
14 July 2011, 03:15 AM
Namaste,

I received an email from a friend regarding a talk given by a pro-Hindu Jew at a recent event in Santa Clara, California.

It was an eye-opening talk with regards to the plight of Hindus worldwide but especially in Bangladesh. This man, a certain Dr. Richard Benkin, has focused his work on the Bangaldeshi Hindu population and the antipathy of the Bangladeshi government towards them as well as the outright animosity towards them from the various Muslim groups, common people, and even the so-called 'pro-minority' political party of Bangladesh, known as the Awami League.

The talk was given to the local Telugu Association of America but it speaks to all Hindus, even the non-Indian variety. Hindus are at a crossroads today. Over the past millenium, seven provinces that were entirely Hindu/Buddhist (Dharmic) have been utterly wiped from their Dharmic influence by Islamists terrorists. Today, we Hindus are fighting a civilizational struggle against a diabolical group of anti-Hindu and anti-Indian folks, many of them Indians themselves! Whether it is cultural misappropriation, denigration, political strife, or even outright violence, Hindus are being targeted at all levels. The most astonishing thing is that Hindus world over are simply either blind to it, or phlegmatic by choice. There is no group, even among animals, who are so disdainful towards the suffering of their own kind. This Dr. Benkin, really calls on Hindus to act with solidarity for a cause that is beyond of all us individually. Even those who consider themselves non-Hindu, if they are for peace within and without, they too should heed this call and support the Hindu cause.

As each day passes, I fear more for the society that India will deteriorate into. With the recent terrorist attacks in Mumbai (July 13, 2011), I am beginning to feel India is becoming an unsafe place for Hindus! Of course, this is a big extrapolation but I am just being honest in my feelings. It brings tears to my eyes that as a Hindu, I have to be afraid of walking freely in my motherland.

I encourage all of you to read this talk carefully and share with everyone you know, even non-Hindus. The awareness of the plight of Hindus worldwide is the first step in the right direction. From right awareness arises right thought. From right thought arises right action. From right action arises right being/existence. Let us not allow the last organ of the Hindu ethos, that is India, wither away despite the tremendous assault waged against her daily by vermin around the world but most importantly in India itself. India must be a Hindu country for there is no other homeland of the Hindus, for the Hindus, and by the Hindus.

The talk by Dr. Richard Benkin:



Address to Telugu Association of North America (TANA)

Santa Clara, CA

July 2, 2011

Namaskar. Shphodim.

Last month, I was in conversation about a book I wrote on Bangladesh's
ethnic cleansing of its Hindu population. The person with whom I spoke was
very taken by the material; so taken that she wanted to help make sure
people got word of this atrocity. She knows the American publishing and book
buying world very well and said that all the elements were there for a
successful project; all the elements except one. And remember this person is
a friend, an ally, one of the "good guys," someone who does care and wants
to help. She said, 'I just don't see people getting real excited over a
bunch of Hindus being killed.' Think about that for a moment. It should make
everyone in this room furious; and if it does not make you furious, you
better ask yourself why because three things hit me-a non-Hindu-immediately.


My first thought was, 'Shame on us if that's who we are.' Is this another
example in which the so-called civilized world would prefer to wring its
hands over body bags piled too high to ignore-as it did in Nazi Europe,
Rwanda, and countless other places-rather than prevent the atrocity? The
second was that those of us who do understand what is happening have a moral
obligation to take effective action to stop it, whatever that means; or we
are as complicit in the crime as anyone else. And the third was this: Hindus
better not count on anyone else helping them, no matter how much they
prattle on about things like "justice" or "human rights." Those supposed
arbiters of right and wrong might apply these concepts to Egyptian and
Libyan protesters or warp them beyond recognition so they can prop up those
Arab terrorists they call "Palestinian"; but they will not apply them to
Hindus in Bangladesh-or for that matter, Hindus in Pakistan, Hindus in
Kashmir, Hindus in Malaysia, or Hindus anywhere else, including if it comes
to it, Hindus in Andhra Pradesh.

So when considering this weekend's events, I asked myself if it was going to
be another one of those gatherings where the attendees shake their fists and
complain about how unfair things are-or one where we actually accomplish
something. Despite the preponderance of the former over the latter, we are
on the cusp of a new dawn where real accomplishment is possible. It will
start here in the United States, and it must begin with us; or else we will
have frittered away a golden opportunity to change the trajectory of history
and in the process sit by while a lot of innocent people die.

We have a great tradition here in which groups of Americans can petition our
government and take concerted action, and I want to give you an example of
that from my own Jewish community. Those of you who were around in the 1980s
will remember that back then, you could not pass a synagogue that did not
have a large banner proclaiming, "Save Soviet Jewry." Our people were being
persecuted horribly in the Soviet Union as part of the Communists' attempt
to eradicate their Jewish religion and Jewish identity. A few, like Natan
Sharansky who later became an Israeli Cabinet Minister, garnered some
attention, but most suffered without fanfare. The American Jewish community
saw their persecuted brothers and sisters and recognized the obligation to
save them. Moreover, it acted on that obligation.

We lobbied Washington and our local officials; prevailed upon other
religious bodies to recognize the atrocity and let Washington know their
position. Average Jews who you might see at the office or in the
supermarket-people just like you-went to Russia at their own expense to
smuggle religious books and other Jewish artifacts at considerable peril to
themselves. After all, this was the mighty Soviet Union.

Jewish children reaching their Bar and Bat Mitzvah rite of passage were
"twinned" with children in the Soviet Union who did not have the freedom to
celebrate their own; so we did it for them. Younger children in religious
schools corresponded with pen pals their own age from the USSR and gave them
hope. And before it was over, we helped get 1.2 million Jews out of that
communist hell. It strengthened our own identity, and every Jewish child who
was part of that effort never forgot it or their own sense of Jewishness;
and it helped us realize that we could in fact stand strong for our people,
that the only thing stopping us was ourselves.

The Bangladeshi Hindus can be your Soviet Jewry. It is an issue of human
decency; an issue that transcends partisan politics and speaks to those
values that are basic for all Americans. It can galvanize American Hindus to
take pride in their Hinduism and help support a resurgent Hindu youth. Will
we act?

Two years ago, I stood before you to talk about the Bangladeshi Hindus. Let
me list for you everything that Sheikh Hasina and the Bangladeshi government
has done to protect their Hindu citizens since then:

[about 10 seconds of silence]

That's right, nothing, zip, bupkis. That same "list," moreover, contains
everything the United Nations has done for them, everything Amnesty
International and Human Rights Watch have done; every word of protest
uttered by the governments of India and the United States. It seems my
friend is right: Nobody gets excited over the killing of Hindus.

The facts warrant a different reaction. In fact, the numbers are so
compelling they cry out for an explanation. At the time of India's partition
in 1947, Hindus made up a little less than a third of East Pakistan's
population. When East Pakistan became Bangladesh in 1971, they were less
than a fifth; thirty years later, less than one in ten; and reliable
estimates put the Hindu population at less than eight percent today.
Professor Sachi Dastidar of the State University of New York estimates that
over 49 million Hindus are missing from Bangladesh. Still having trouble
wondering where this is going? Take a look at Pakistan where Hindus are down
to one percent or Kashmir where they are almost gone. Take a look at the
future of Bangladesh's Hindus if we do not act.

This is not opinion or "Islamaphobia." These are facts! Want another? For
years, we have received report after report documenting anti-Hindu incidents
there; incidents including murder, gang rape, assault, forced conversion to
Islam, child abduction, land grabs, and religious desecration. And while
Bangladeshi officials might object that the perpetrators were non-state
actors, government culpability rests, at the very least, on the fact that it
pursues very few of these cases and punishes even fewer perpetrators. And
that's our key. Unfortunately, minorities are attacked pretty much
everywhere. The critical question is when it happens, does the majority
population have a problem with it; and the best measure of that is what the
government does in reaction. When Hindu students were attacked in Australia,
the government went after the perpetrators with a vengeance. In the United
States, crimes against any minority are considered just that, crimes; and
the state will punish you to the fullest extent of the law; but not in
Bangladesh.

Here's another irrefutable fact. While this information pours out of
Bangladesh with numbing ferocity, it does not do so through the mainstream
media-here, India, or anywhere else. Thus, people are often shocked and
sometimes dubious when I present the facts to them. Many wonder out loud how
something so horrible could be kept hidden; how our own CIA or India's RAW
could not know about it-were it actually true. They often ask me why, if
this is so dire have we read nothing about it in our major papers or watched
it on CNN or Fox. 'Why,' they ask, 'hasn't Amnesty International taken it
up,' or most damning, 'Why have Hindus themselves said nothing?'

This means that anything we present has to be verified with certainty; if we
present information that turns out to be untrue or exaggerated it will sink
our efforts. We can expect the Bangladeshi government and even the US State
Department to challenge it; and expect the recognized human rights industry
to dismiss it. Both parties have an interest to do so, for if we are
correct, Amnesty International and the others will be asked why they missed
or ignored the situation. The Obama Administration and the rest of the
international talking heads have maintained as an article of faith that the
December 2008 election of Sheikh Hasina and the Awami League ushered in a
new era for Bangladesh. They will point out that it ended almost two years
of military-backed rule; and the government before that, , included the
Islamist Jamaat in its coalition. Moreover, they will say, the left-center
Awami League has always claimed to be Bangladesh's "pro-minority" party, and
these outside groups with no real knowledge of Bangladesh swallow that line.
So, it is in their interest to maintain that fiction.

And they are not the only ones. In January 2009, I was asked to address a
coalition of Bangladeshi Hindu organizations about how they might respond to
the Awami League victory. My advice was to press their advantage since
Hindus helped Awami to victory. The last thing they should do, I said, was
to "fall asleep. That would be a critical mistake." Some agreed, but the
prevailing sentiment among the organization leaders was fear of angering the
new government. "Give them time," they said, to which I replied, "This
attitude of passivity and 'let's give them a chance'; how well has that
worked for the minorities in the past? Not well. We are sitting by while
people are being killed and tortured! So, yes, we must give them some
time-but not much or we will see that their words are nothing more than
words." And that is exactly all they turned out to be.

During the first year of the Awami League's rule, there were major
anti-Hindu attacks at the rate of at least one per week. I say "at least"
because you will recall that our allegations will be held to a higher
standard than most. Out of the flood of reported incidents, those were the
ones I personally verified-either through my own missions to South Asia or
through Indian and Bangladeshi Hindus who investigated and verified the
allegations for me. All of these attacks were serious, involved Hindu
victims and Muslim victimizers; and in every case, the government refused to
take action against known perpetrators. Police and government officials
actually took part in some and led a cover up of others. And in none of
them, did the police help recover Hindu women or children who were abducted,
likely raped, and forcibly converted to Islam. And I re-confirmed the facts
as recently as this spring, so the government's support for anti-Hindu
action lasts long after the crimes themselves. Here are three examples.

. For three days in March and April, 2009, an anti-Hindu pogrom raged in the
Sutrapur section of the Bangladeshi capital. It occurred right behind a
police station and involved arson, beatings, and the deliberate destruction
of a Hindu Temple. Many were hospitalized, and dozens still remain homeless.
Not only are the perpetrators free of prosecution, but they actually were
awarded some of the land they invaded. Officials including the Dhaka Chief
of Police and an Awami League Member of Parliament warned local human rights
groups to stop inquiring about it.

. On June 13, 2009, 20-year-old Hindu college student Koli Goswami was
abducted from her bed in the middle of the night. Muslim men broke into the
family home and brandished firearms when confronted by family members.
Police refuse to pursue a case, calling it a "love affair," despite admitted
evidence of violence and a struggle. They claim that Koli has "voluntarily"
converted to Islam and threaten family members and human rights groups while
keeping them from interviewing the young woman. Koli Goswami has not been
seen since the night she was taken.

. At 10am on February 26, 2009, two men abducted 14 year old Tanusree Roy
and raped her multiple times. Although the distraught father has filed
official reports of the incident, authorities have refused to help recover
his child or prosecute the known perpetrators. The latter continue to
threaten Tanusree's father if he does not drop the matter. Human rights
activists report that the girl has been forcibly converted to Islam and kept
incommunicado for the past two years.

There was no let-up during the Awami League's second year in office. In one
25 day period between March 12 and April 6, 2010, for instance, there were
seven major, confirmed attacks.

All we get from the Bangladeshis are words. Like actors reading from a
script, they repeat the same hollow denials-the same party line I got when I
raised the issue with a Bangladeshi Cabinet Minister in Dhaka earlier this
year. He might have parroted the usual denials, but his nervous ticks,
obvious discomfort, and averted glance told quite a different story. (I also
recall how several years ago, a Bangladeshi general tried to convince me
that their Vested Property Act was actually instituted as a device to
protect Hindus, although when I pressed him he could not explain how that
could work.) And how many times are we going to hear their empty promises to
repeal "anti-minority laws." Sheikh Hasina made that very promise to
visiting NATO commander Gerard Valin on May 1, 2009, thereby admitting that
her country in fact has anti-minority laws on the books. In the long
standing tradition of Bangladeshi leaders, she went no further than those
words and the discriminatory laws remain. Yet, no nation or international
body seems to have a problem with that.

What message does that send to anyone who covets a Hindu family's small
farm-or their daughter? And what message are we sending them-and our own
children-if we look the other way while it happens?

There is something else. Some of you might be thinking, 'Perhaps that is all
true, but my family is from Andhra Pradesh where we have our own problems.
This is about Bengalis.' And that plays right into the hands of those who
wish to destroy us. Were the bombs that went off on 26/11 harmful only to
some? Did they discriminate between Telugu and Bengali? Did the killers ask
people if they were from Kashmir or Gujurat before firing? And if they
destroy the Hindus in Bangladesh and Kashmir, will they then say, 'it is
enough' and urge their fellow jihadis to leave Andhra Pradesh in peace? iNo,
no, no, and no again. If we fail to unite, we will be easy pickings for our
enemies-who have put aside their own ancient divisions for the sake of
jihad.

So, instead of treating you to a litany of more atrocities, I want to
identify one simple thing we all can do from our secure positions in the
United States. Everyone can decide today whether to do something simple and
save lives or watch another rerun of House or Law and Order while the
murders and rapes continue.

To get things started, we have to make people aware of the problem. Despite
the flood of emails and consistent documentation successive in Hindu
American Foundation reports, few people here are aware of this atrocity or
how it threatens them, and we have to fix that. Human rights atrocities
generally proceed when governments believe they can commit them without
anyone noticing-or caring-which is what we have here. For Bangladesh, that
means that it incurs no cost if it allows its Hindus to be eradicated; that
is, their leaders have pointed out the domestic political concerns if they
take action, but they have none if they let things remain as they are. We
have to make it cost more for them not to change.

The US is Bangladesh's third largest trading partner, and we have given
Bangladesh over $5.5 billion in aid. For years, Bangladeshi
governments-regardless of party-have wanted a free trade agreement with the
United States or at least a reduction in tariffs on their goods. You might
call it their holy grail. That is a tremendous amount of leverage we can
exercise if we have the will to do so, and it will take a concerted and
relentless effort to get our elected officials to use it.

I am currently working with a Member of Congress on a letter that addresses
this issue. It will ask the US to re-consider its policies and use all of
that leverage to save the 15 million Bangladeshi Hindus. Because at this
point, the actual letter is unfinished and needs final approval, I cannot
divulge the Member's name or the specific contents; but the initiative is
real and his support genuine. Once it is complete-hopefully during the
summer-we will look for other Members of Congress to sign it before sending
it to Secretary of State Clinton. Do we expect that this letter will lead
the US government to all of a sudden revamp its entire foreign policy? No,
but remember the intent: to shine light on an atrocity that is allowed to
proceed because it does so in the dark.

Hopefully, the administration will take a serious look at the issue; but
whether it does so or not, the letter will provide the basis for further
action: Congressional hearings, which are already in the works; confronting
the Bangladeshis; and from there action on trade and tariffs. It will take
this issue to a new level, and everyone in this room can and should have a
role in making it happen because success is premised on getting a range of
Congressmen and Congresswomen to sign it. When you came in, you were given a
piece of paper to fill out with contact information and questions to
determine who your Congressional Representative is. Everyone here who votes
can help get that elected official's signature on the letter and support for
the actions we take subsequently to stop this carnage. Please pass in the
papers. Now, can each of you do that one small thing? Is there anyone here
who can't?

That's good, because Congressman Mike Pence (R-IN) once said that any Member
of Congress who gets ten phone calls on an issue will sit up and take
notice, call staff meetings about it, and probably support their
constituents' position; but whether it is ten, two, or a hundred, the
principle is the same. Using these papers, I will identify Members of
Congress whom you can call and we can go to for support. When we are ready
to circulate the letter, I will contact each of you and ask you to make that
call. Moreover, each of you knows other citizens who can make the same call.
Urge them to do it-even if they live in the same house as you; so long as
they are eligible to vote in the next election. My associate, Prasad
Yalamanchi will help with that, but today he and I will be getting
information from people and groups that can get things done.

There is something else we can do, and it refers to something that is
happening now. Last month, Bangladesh's Supreme Court ruled against some
constitutional amendments instituted during two military dictatorships in
the 1970s and 1980s, and it asked the government to submit replacements for
ratification in the Awami-dominated parliament. So what did this
oh-so-progressive and freedom-loving Awami League do? It submitted new laws
that outlawed military governments and religiously-based parties; but it
left intact one of the most significant amendments that came under the
Court's scrutiny: the Eighth, which made Islam the official state religion
and essential to the character of all that flows from Bangladeshi law. It is
an amendment that Hindus and others say makes them second-class citizens in
their own country. Every law they have to follow begins with "in the name of
Allah the beneficent." Madrassas (Islamic schools) are given a favored
position by their government and often receive public support, even those
preaching radical Islam. This is not the action of a government that really
wants to protect its minority citizens, but rather one closer to Iran. It is
certainly not the action of a "moderate Muslim nation," which is how
Bangladesh tries to portray itself.

Has there been even one phone call from President Obama or Secretary of
State Clinton to Bangladesh, challenging the government on this or other
anti-minority actions? Has anyone reminded Sheikh Hasina of her still
unfulfilled promises to end official minority discrimination in
Bangladesh-and how she has an opportunity with this constitutional change to
prove that she and her party are not shams? The answer to all those
questions is the same: "No." I ask my esteemed colleagues at the Hindu
American Foundation to work with me now to prevail upon Congress and the
Administration to address this matter with Bangladesh while there is still
time to fix things. It will also tell us if these people deserve our votes
next year.

Let me put it to you this way. If there was a similar situation involving
Muslims somewhere in the world, what do you think the American Muslim
community would do? How vocal would organizations like Council on
American-Islamic Relations be? What about Jewish organizations or
Evangelical Christians for their co-religionists? Do Hindus have fewer
rights than they do? Does the American Constitution say 'everyone except
Hindus'? No; the only thing stopping us is ourselves. For this effort to
succeed, we do not need the entire 2.5 million Hindus in the United States
to act. But we do need a core group of individuals who care more about the
lives of their oppressed brethren than being thought impolite. And it starts
here; it starts today. From this effort, we can make the issue of anti-Hindu
oppression a US concern. Each of you can do this one thing, and possibly
save the lives of millions of people.

Once we find success in this quarter, we can expand in any direction we
wish; tackle any anti-Hindu human rights issues we want-those in Pakistan,
Kashmir, Malaysia, Fiji, or anywhere else. In the lead up to the November
2010 vote, some of us in the Chicago area helped organize community members
in support of certain candidates who will support us. As a result, some
people are beginning to see the Hindu community as a constituency that
cannot be ignored; whose concerns cannot be dismissed. And it will stay that
way only so long as we continue to exert whatever advantage we have and deny
our support to those lawmakers who do not care about those issues important
to us, who do not care if Hindus are being killed and raped in Bangladesh.
We have a critical election coming up in 16 months, and the papers you
filled out today will be added to others to help elect lawmakers who will
stand with us and not let our brothers and sisters in Bangladesh or anywhere
else be persecuted with impunity.

Whatever we do, however, it all ultimately depends on you. Some of us who
are dedicated to saving the Bangladeshi Hindus can lead, can organize, can
take on a certain amount of the burden; but our efforts will come to little
if people see that the rest of the community does not care enough to stand
up and say so. The Congressional letter will be our first test.

And just in case you are wondering whether why you should take this tiny
step, please allow me this one last piece of motivation. In 2009, I
interviewed a Bangladeshi Hindu family that crossed into India only 22 days
earlier. They told me about an uncle being killed, the father beaten, and
their tiny farm invaded by a large number of Muslims. I also looked into the
eyes of their 14-year-old daughter as she talked about being gang raped. Who
did it? Not al Qaeda or Jammat; but simply Muslims who lived in the area and
knew they could have their way with the family, seize their land, and get
away with it.

Joseph Stalin is said to have remarked, "One death is a tragedy, a million
deaths a statistic." That 14-year-old rape victim-that child-I met was no
statistic, and God help us if we make her one.

Thank you.

His personal website: http://www.interfaithstrength.blogspot.com/

Sahasranama
14 July 2011, 04:35 AM
That's right, nothing, zip, bupkis. That same "list," moreover, contains
everything the United Nations has done for them, everything Amnesty
International and Human Rights Watch have done; every word of protest
uttered by the governments of India and the United States. It seems my
friend is right: Nobody gets excited over the killing of Hindus.
Thanks for posting this, I am glad I stopped donating to amnesty international years ago.

Believer
14 July 2011, 01:57 PM
Thanks for the post TTA.
The question is, is anyone out there listening and working to counter this problem?
With the peace at all costs, and everything goes attitude, Hindus are their own worst enemies!

issacnewton
19 July 2011, 07:05 AM
I agree. Its good that jews are supporting hindus.

I strongly support israel and greatly admire many jews in science . But i have
one comment about this hindu- jewish interaction. Few years ago , there was
hindu-jewish summit organized by , i think , hindu american foundation.
to please the jews , guys from hindu american foundation tried to downplay
some "heathen" aspects of hindu tradition , like idol worship. they tried to
argue that idol worship is bad ....blah blah blah........ i understand the need
for hindu-jewish cooperation...........but we can do that without apologising
for different hindu modes of worship. we should remember that it was the jews
who invented this idol hating madness......... but like i said, we can support, and i do support israel and jews in general ....while disregarding their bible.

TheOne
19 July 2011, 04:04 PM
The Jews are just as motivated by religious bloodlust in the middle east as much as the Muslims and Christians are. The entire reason why there is a state of Israel in its current location is because of a religious reason, because its the "promised land by God" for the Jewish people. I think this is absolute hogwash and while yes, the Jewish people are more peaceful then both Muslims and Christians, they still use politics to push for religious goals.

charitra
20 July 2011, 12:15 AM
The Jews are just as motivated by religious bloodlust in the middle east as much as the Muslims and Christians are. The entire reason why there is a state of Israel in its current location is because of a religious reason, because its the "promised land by God" for the Jewish people. I think this is absolute hogwash and while yes, the Jewish people are more peaceful then both Muslims and Christians, they still use politics to push for religious goals.

Jewish people were massacred and europe turned into a slaughter house for them and again in muslim book they were characterized as animals. They formed a nation when they had no other survival option, ......europeans made far off lands their own by utilizing sheer muscle power. Later UN chrter came into existence and borders were drawn between many countries.See all the ongoing commotion in its neighborhood now, people screaming for democracy so forth.Besides they dont proselytize.

charitra
20 July 2011, 12:30 AM
I agree. Its good that jews are supporting hindus.

I strongly support israel and greatly admire many jews in science . But i have
one comment about this hindu- jewish interaction. Few years ago , there was
hindu-jewish summit organized by , i think , hindu american foundation.
to please the jews , guys from hindu american foundation tried to downplay
some "heathen" aspects of hindu tradition , like idol worship. they tried to
argue that idol worship is bad ....blah blah blah........ i understand the need
for hindu-jewish cooperation...........but we can do that without apologising
for different hindu modes of worship. we should remember that it was the jews
who invented this idol hating madness......... but like i said, we can support, and i do support israel and jews in general ....while disregarding their bible.

it was hindu mahasabha, not HAF. The jewish clergy was not clear about hindu theosophy till then and their misconceptions were clarified by the former.Most abrahamic faiths refuse to even read the basic doctrines of dharmic faiths, because they consider reading dharmic doctrines even for information sake in itself tantamounts to blasphemy. In my opinion they are an unstable lot, they are afraid they would realize the enormity of the hindu faith and they might get swayed by it. Following the dialogue, once the seers from hinduism, like Dayananda, explained the doctrines and ritual and practices to accomplish the hindu goals, the Jewish clergy from Jerusalem were convinced. They abandoned the hostile attitude towards hinduism. Namaste.

TheOne
21 July 2011, 09:01 AM
>Jewish people were massacred and europe turned into a slaughter house for them and again in muslim book they were characterized as animals. They formed a nation when they had no other survival option, ......europeans made far off lands their own by utilizing sheer muscle power. Later UN chrter came into existence and borders were drawn between many countries.See all the ongoing commotion in its neighborhood now, people screaming for democracy so forth.Besides they dont proselytize.

Yes, it is unfortunate the events of the past that lead to mass genocides of the jewish people.

"they formed a nation when they had no other survival option"

Yes, they did but they choose the location purely based on a sense of jewish nationalism which even contradicts their own scriptures.

"Later UN charter came into existence and borders were drawn between many countries"

Yes, that's true but Israel has repeatedly VIOLATED every boarder which it has claimed, even the so-called "defensible border" against attacks. It's settlements(which are largely supported by Xtians) have the sole purpose of driving the Arabs into the sea. If that's not Adharmic I don't know what is.

"Besides they dont proselytize."

The lack of proselytization doesn't make there scripture any more humane. Yes the Jewish people are by and large rather peaceful, because they started critically examining their scripture. Judaism is not only a religious code, but it's a nation and while the religious aspect of Judaism is now largely extinct, the secular movement(akin to Hindutva) is still strong and actively pursuing goals which further the cause of Jews around the world.

nitinsharma
21 July 2011, 10:00 AM
>J

the secular movement(akin to Hindutva) is still strong and actively pursuing goals which further the cause of Jews around the world.


The word is "Zionism".

issacnewton
25 July 2011, 12:27 PM
theone

christians have some 60+ majority countries to live in. muslims have some 53
"islamic countries" to live in. jews have one. let them live in peace. millions of them were slaughtered in europe by christians because they didn't give a damn about you know who. in israel they feel secure. arabs are just madmen from the desert with no real culture....... look here for the jewish contribution to sciences and other disciplines.....
http://www.jinfo.org/

real gem these people are... instead of blaming them , you should be proud that they live in your western countries in such large numbers........:cool1:

i had read on some online blog some observation about european politics.

"in politics, when Right goes to the far Right and Left goes to the far Left,
they go around the circle and meet at the junction of anti-semistism"

think about it.........:Cool:

TatTvamAsi
27 July 2011, 02:34 PM
theone

christians have some 60+ majority countries to live in. muslims have some 53
"islamic countries" to live in. jews have one. let them live in peace. millions of them were slaughtered in europe by christians because they didn't give a damn about you know who. in israel they feel secure. arabs are just madmen from the desert with no real culture....... look here for the jewish contribution to sciences and other disciplines.....

real gem these people are... instead of blaming them , you should be proud that they live in your western countries in such large numbers........:cool1:

i had read on some online blog some observation about european politics.

"in politics, when Right goes to the far Right and Left goes to the far Left,
they go around the circle and meet at the junction of anti-semistism"

think about it.........:Cool:

You must be joking. Jews are also Abrahamics and have a severe disdain for those that are not their own. In fact, most of the anti-Hindus in academia who pretend to be "scholars" of Hinduism are Jews who write and perpetuate lies, and abhorrent trash about Hinduism and India. It was Jewish mathematician at Harvard (?), Robert Kaplan, who idiotically stated that Indians/Hindus didn't invent the zero when all the evidence was staring him in the face. It is a Jew, Wendy Doniger, who writes anti-Hindu books left and right and proclaims herself as a "scholar" of Hinduism when she isn't even worthy of making tea for Hindus (as an untouchable). It was a Jew, Steven Spielberg, who portrayed India and Hindus as "demonic" in his idiotic movie Indiana Jones. That half-baked director still hasn't apologized to India and/or Hindus for what he did under the guise of artistic "freedom". There are many Jews at the forefront of media denigrating India/Hinduism on a daily basis. They are also part of the campaign that tries to dissociate Yoga from Hinduism.

The New York Times, a popular yellow journal in the US, is owned and operated by Jews and they are the most anti-Indian paper probably rivaled by that of trash like Times of India and NDTV etc.

In essence, Abrahamics, every single one of them, should be avoided like the plague. Yes, the Jews are generally better than their Christian and Muslim brethren but that in NO WAY makes them "good", especially with regards to India and Hindus. Many Hindus are blind to this and everyone who smiles at them think they are our "friends".

There are a few Jews who seem to help Hindus in our cause but that is ONLY because of their disdain towards Muslims and the problems we face from those people. If I was given a choice between the three evils, yes, I will also choose to befriend a Jew but the best option is to avoid them all.

And, talking about contributions to science etc., Hindus have made the most seminal discoveries of mankind. How many Jews acknowledge that?

To be clear, as aforementioned, I do like the Jews over the Christians and Muslims. Of that, there is no doubt. However, in no way do I consider them as friends of Hindus.

Please read Breaking India to see the nexus of the Abrahamics and the Communists with the common goal of shattering India and sidelining Hindus.

issacnewton
21 October 2011, 03:01 AM
hi

its true what you are saying. i was wondering why that is the case. millions of jews have been slaughtered by christians in europe for last 20 centuries. jews have been kicked out by almost every christian european country. there were never many jews in india, may be few thousand. but i have read about the book
written by a jewish scholar saying that this micro community in india was accorded freedom to worship the way they want. when many jews left india for israel in 1947, they did not carry with them the memories of persecution.
hindu kings in kerala even protected jews against christian harassment.
so its sad that jewish scholars like wendy doninger spit at hindus........
its amazing that jews today strongly identify with the western culture, the very
culture which tried to exterminate the entire world Jewry......may be they suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

Jainarayan
21 October 2011, 09:41 AM
so its sad that jewish scholars like wendy doninger spit at hindus........

Self-haters scream the loudest about everything and anything they are not but wish they were.


its amazing that jews today strongly identify with the western culture, the very
culture which tried to exterminate the entire world Jewry......may be they suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

Jews adapt and survive, regardless of the culture or society that tried to eliminate them. They have for 3,500 years.

issacnewton
21 October 2011, 10:29 PM
thats something to be admired......... the resoluteness with which
they have overcome all the antisemitism thrown at them by christian and muslim societies........ this year , of the 7 nobel prizes awarded in science category,
5 were given to jews......

ohhcuppycakee
22 October 2011, 09:39 AM
Jewish people were massacred and europe turned into a slaughter house for them and again in muslim book they were characterized as animals. They formed a nation when they had no other survival option, ......europeans made far off lands their own by utilizing sheer muscle power. Later UN chrter came into existence and borders were drawn between many countries.See all the ongoing commotion in its neighborhood now, people screaming for democracy so forth.Besides they dont proselytize.

-Sigh-
The Qur'an does not call Jews animals. There is a story though that says one group of Jews were turned into apes because of their disobedience to God, so I understand the confusion. Ahadith also says the faces of hypocritical Muslims in the end time will turn to that of pigs.

wundermonk
22 October 2011, 09:49 AM
There is a story though that says one group of Jews were turned into apes because of their disobedience to God, so I understand the confusion. Ahadith also says the faces of hypocritical Muslims in the end time will turn to that of pigs.

Do you believe these stories to be literally true? i.e. were some Jews *actually* turned into apes? Will some hypocritical Muslims in the end time [whatever that means] *actually* turn into pigs? Is that why you guys are prohibited from eating pork?

ohhcuppycakee
22 October 2011, 10:10 AM
Do you believe these stories to be literally true? i.e. were some Jews *actually* turned into apes? Will some hypocritical Muslims in the end time [whatever that means] *actually* turn into pigs? Is that why you guys are prohibited from eating pork?

I personally don't believe them to be literal, but many people do. No, that isn't why Muslims cannot eat pork. The reason is not stated though. Muslims in general can only eat herbivores though with a few exceptions. One reason people think pork is prohibited for consumption is because pigs have a very short digestive tract and will eat anything from their feces to their own miscarriage. And because their digestive tract is so short, the toxins stay much longer in the pig's body, which means you are eating the toxins from whatever they last ate.

wundermonk
22 October 2011, 10:12 AM
I personally don't believe them to be literal, but many people do.

Do you believe them to be *figurative*? If yes, what is the *figurative* meaning of these hadiths?

If you dont believe them literally OR figuratively, why believe them?

PS: Please go to the USER CP. Click on Edit Profile. Scroll down the page. In the "Additional Information" Section change the default post colour from PINK to BLACK.

ohhcuppycakee
22 October 2011, 10:14 AM
Do you believe them to be *figurative*? If yes, what is the *figurative* meaning of these hadiths?

If you dont believe them literally OR figuratively, why believe them?
I believe them to be figurative. I think the meaning is that Muslims will be doing such disgusting things that they will be like pigs.

wundermonk
22 October 2011, 10:18 AM
I believe them to be figurative. I think the meaning is that Muslims will be doing such disgusting things that they will be like pigs.

What *disgusting* things will hypocritical Muslims be doing?

Do you believe in literal hell and heaven? If yes, how old do you expect to be in heaven?

Do you literally believe in Quran 4:56?


Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.

ohhcuppycakee
22 October 2011, 01:47 PM
What *disgusting* things will hypocritical Muslims be doing?

Do you believe in literal hell and heaven? If yes, how old do you expect to be in heaven?

Do you literally believe in Quran 4:56?

The hadith specifically refers to Muslims that take unlawful property (i.e. bribes)...

Yes, I do believe in a literal heaven and hell. I will not speak with my own opinion on it though, because it is something that is so beyond my own imagination, you know? Nothing in this life can compare to that of the next. A hadith says people will enter Jannah at age 33.

wundermonk
22 October 2011, 11:14 PM
Yes, I do believe in a literal heaven and hell. I will not speak with my own opinion on it though, because it is something that is so beyond my own imagination, you know? Nothing in this life can compare to that of the next. A hadith says people will enter Jannah at age 33.

A literal conception of heaven/hell is beset with multiple problems.

1. What about those children who die young before they reach age 33? How does Allah "extrapolate" these extra years?
2. You will be as old as your mother, grandmother, daughter, grand daughter, etc assuming all of them lived past 33 years of age. You may never have seen your grand mother or a photograph of her as a 33 year old. So, we can safely assume that in heaven, an omniscient entity - maybe archangel Gabriel, will be doing the rounds, introducing everybody to everybody else.
3. Heaven may not be as pleasing as the Quran paints it to be because you will still know that people like me [hey, I am just another homo sapiens like you having wishes and desires] along with a multitude of infidels, hypocritical Muslims, Muslims following the 72 wrong sects [video on this here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NpwUTQahk8)] are burning in hell next door where Allah will regrow our skins and burn us afresh as per Quran 4:56. :( Given this knowledge, if a person in heaven still has feelings of empathy, heaven will become very depressing indeed. In my guess, heaven WILL become hell.

arp1
23 October 2011, 01:54 PM
Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 23:
Volume 2, Book 23, Number 464:
Narrated Al-Bara':

When Ibrahim (the son of Prophet) expired, Allah's Apostle said, "There is a wet-nurse for him in Paradise."
what about this?