PDA

View Full Version : What are you?



Eastern Mind
10 August 2011, 04:55 PM
Vannakkam: I was reflecting on personality or individual being, the other day, and the title of this thread. Each of us has several traits that make our person: gender, nationality, religion, sect within religion, occupation, language, age, sexual identity, race, and more.

I am wondering if within dharma there is some suggested balance to all these, or if we should concern ourselves with finding a balance.

So in a moment of self-reflection, I asked myself: "What are you?" and the immediate response was 'Hindu'. In other words, for me, the aspect that I have put into category one priority is religion. Another way to self-reflect on this is what you bring up within a few minutes of conversation with a stranger.

This is not true for others. A few weeks back we had friends of my son over and one happened to be gay. I didn't know it beforehand, but within 5 minutes I did know. He made sure I knew. So for him, that was a priority.

In other instances like traveling through the US, others saw my nationality as what stood out. So for them, nationality may have been somewhere near the top of the list. In other words being American is important, maybe even THE most important thing about you.

In other discussions I've observed race as being the biggie. Sometimes its gender as reflected in Helen Reddy's song, "I am woman!"

So within Sanatana Dharma, should we strive to strike some balance? I do see the people with disproportional emphasis on any one of these traits as being a bit off. (Some of my relatives think I'm a bit off for putting so much on the line for religion.)

Are we Hindu first, and nationality second? Or is it okay to be the other way around. (Others who think more globally have little emphasis on nationality.)

A Republican Christian, for example, might get along well with a Republican Hindu, or any other faith: "Just so long as he or she is a Republican its okay."

In some contexts, and I see this particularly in professionals, occupation is number one. So if you say, "what are you?" the answer is immediate: "I'm a doctor."

I'm often surprised here on HDF at some of the responses when there is a new topic introduced. I incorrectly assume certain things based on what I've read the person say.

So HDF members: "What are you?"

Sorry for the rant.

Aum Namasivaya

smaranam
10 August 2011, 05:15 PM
So HDF members: "What are you?"
Aum Namasivaya

K r u s h N A l i
OF KRSNa
BY KRSNa
FOR KRSNa

IN KRSNa
AT [lotus feet of] KRSNa

hand self OVER TO KRSNa

Hare KRSNa ~

Eastern Mind
10 August 2011, 05:34 PM
Vannakkam Smaranam: So sect within religion is the priority for you. All other conditions are secondary? So long as you worship Krishna, all is okay? Does this affect relationships within humanity?

I'm certainly not trying to start an argument here. I'm just trying to clarify this idea of balance. Another way I have thought about it is the hypothetical "If I had to go for a 3 day drive with another person, what would I want that person to be like?" So for you it should be a Krishna devotee? Wouldn't matter so much if the person was gay, American, Indian, white, Chinese, a farmer, Socialist, etc. If you had to priorise these factors, being a devotee of Krishna would be the first thing, right?

Of course, I'm excluding the obvious things. I just assume you'd rather ride with a white Christian American grandmother than a mass murderer.:)

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
10 August 2011, 05:35 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



I am wondering if within dharma there is some suggested balance to all these, or if we should concern ourselves with finding a balance.

Dharma when fully blossomed is perfect balance... sama, some perfer samāna.

I do not think in terms of 'what am I ' but who I am. For me, what I am provokes the thoughts of ingredients, parts. I then think of the tattva's and mahā-bhūta-s (elements). But when I think of who I am then the dimensions become dimensionless.

praṇām

Jainarayan
10 August 2011, 05:57 PM
Namaste EM...

Excellent questions that too many people consider too little. People do identify themselves first by their religion, or sexuality, or nationality, or ethnicity. And I find that a little disturbing. I don't understand why a person has to be gay before being a person; or in the presence of a gay person someone else has to underscore their heterosexuality; or black before being a person; or "born-again Christian" before being a person (surprise for them... we're all born again... and again... and again... and again... and.. :Roll: ).

Me... ? I'm just what you see, and that's all I am. I don't label myself unless someone asks a specific question. Ask me my nationality, I'll say American; ask me my religion, I'll say Hindu; ask me what sect, I'll say "you'd have to ask another Hindu, but I'm probably non-sectarian with a definite Vaishnava leaning" (see? I said I don't label :p ); ask me my race (it's a no-brainer at night... I glow in the dark :rolleyes: ), I'll say caucasian (it takes in many, many phenotypes, not just "white"); ask my sexual identity, I'll say "uh, if you have to ask that you don't deserve an answer because it's none of your freakin' business" (just can't get the Jersey boy outta me).

I have a whole boatload of slogans and quotes, among them:

"Be all you can be" - US Army slogan.

"Be who you were born to be" - Elrond to Aragorn in The Lord of the Rings.

"Why fight so hard to be part of one world? Why not be the best of the two worlds?" - Kirk to Spock on Spock's conflict over his Vulcan/Human heritage.

"Just be who and what you are" - me.

Eastern Mind
10 August 2011, 06:08 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Dharma when fully blossomed is perfect balance... sama, some perfer samāna.

I do not think in terms of 'what am I ' but who I am. For me, what I am provokes the thoughts of ingredients, parts. I then think of the tattva's and mahā-bhūta-s (elements). But when I think of who I am then the dimensions become dimensionless.

praṇām


Vannakkam Yajvan: Yes, I agree with the 'who' as well. It was a toss up between the two words. And yes, I agree with you on the deeper levels it is just 'I am'. Or 'the Self' or whatever you want to call the essence of each of us. That is who we really are. I''m sure the sage in samadhi cannot relate to any of these factors, for the sage would then be beyond them all. I was thinking more in the external realms, and trying to help myself understand not just me, but others.

Unfortunately as with many, I am unable at this juncture to hit samadhi, and wish to remain in a reasonable balanced position. :)

Aum Namasivaya

Ganeshprasad
10 August 2011, 06:08 PM
Pranam EM

Interesting question, with reflection i could not find any better word then Manusaya, that is what shastra identify us, Dharma is some thing one abides in but human is what we all are, it as simple as that. Manusaya comes from Manu, this identity is also confirmed in Gita chapter 7.3

manushyanam (http://vedabase.net/m/manusyanam) sahasreshu (http://vedabase.net/s/sahasresu)
kascid yatati (http://vedabase.net/y/yatati) siddhaye (http://vedabase.net/s/siddhaye)
yatatam (http://vedabase.net/y/yatatam) api (http://vedabase.net/a/api) siddhanam (http://vedabase.net/s/siddhanam)
kascin mam (http://vedabase.net/m/mam) vetti (http://vedabase.net/v/vetti) tattvatah (http://vedabase.net/t/tattvatah)


Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.


Many people run around with various title, boxed in within that sect, if they are honest they would know they can not live up to that fancy title either.


So i guess next best thing would be a Hindu because it encompass every thing, yet i do not see people out side of this tradition view us like that.


Jai Shree Krishna

RosemaryOs
10 August 2011, 06:55 PM
The "gay" boy you entertained in your home was pushing for a nod of validation from you-- before he invested himself. He was sort of making a "like it or lump it" statement, which I think is rather aggressive. He must have been very hurt in life about his sexuality and it puts him in an up-front-defense mode.

That one is hard to understand, but it probably makes a good case in point.

Perhaps our labels keep us farther apart, rather than bringing us closer together...

My 5th grade teacher told our class that she didn't tell anyone what Political Party she belonged to, not even her husband!! She said it was none of his business.

I thought that to be very strange. Political party preferences have given a lot of scope for arguments in my family!!!!!! (As also does religion).

Could we be a sum total of all the influences that we have experienced in our lives?

Last summer when I was in Canada, I had a very hard time with the customs people in Halifax. Of course, I was bone tired, the airlines had lost my luggage, and I got a snarly customs agent who seemed to be yelling at me. I did not know if I was in hostile territory...

...when I got to Halifax Hotel and I opened the drapes-- there waving brightly in the light, just outside of my window, was the American flag. I felt so comforted. I was not in hostile territory after all...

So, I guess I'm an American and that is how the world will see me, so it comforts me to get a sign of acknowledgement or whatever that feeling is...
Sheesh, I'm rambling....

Eastern Mind
10 August 2011, 07:12 PM
Me... ? I'm just what you see, and that's all I am. I don't label myself unless someone asks a specific question.

(just can't get the Jersey boy outta me).

I have a whole boatload of slogans and quotes, among them:

"Be all you can be" - US Army slogan.



Vannakkam: Your response demonstrates what I find so fascinating. (I'm just using you as an example, not suggesting anything.) On one hand you claim to not label yourself, and yet later in the paragraph the American in you comes out, and although you may not see it, it sticks out like a sore thumb to me. For many on here, they wouldn't even know what a Jersey boy is. In fact, I don't.

Many see the 'rural' in me. It sticks out like a sore thumb. (Maybe more aptly a green thumb.) Yet for myself, I have to actually reflect on it. I can't see it for the life of me.

@Rosemary ... I think you were quite right about the gay guy. Not knowing me, he wanted to find out. I couldn't tell if he was disappointed or happy at the lack of reaction in me, as I simply don't care. He was also a politician. He did poorly in a recent election here, and he thought it was because he was gay in redneck country, whereas I thought it was because he was in the wrong political party. (This demonstrates that I have politics ahead of sexual preference in my rankings.) But interestingly, when his partner asked who in the house were the Hindus, my ears REALLY perked up, :)again demonstrating priorities.

Life is just so darned complex.

Aum Namasivaya

Jainarayan
10 August 2011, 07:22 PM
The "gay" boy you entertained in your home was pushing for a nod of validation from you-- before he invested himself. He was sort of making a "like it or lump it" statement, which I think is rather aggressive. He must have been very hurt in life about his sexuality and it puts him in an up-front-defense mode.

I think some people are like that regardless of their experiences. They place their sexual identity first and foremost; they define themselves by their sexual identity.

But your take on it is equally valid. Some people set themselves up for confrontation... spoiling for a fight, as it were.


I thought that to be very strange. Political party preferences have given a lot of scope for arguments in my family!!!!!! (As also does religion).

It would be more fun to stick pins in my eyes than discuss politics, religion and third-world nations with my family. :eek: And the funny thing is, they are always absolutely right in their opinions. Just ask them, and they'll tell you. :Roll:


Could we be a sum total of all the influences that we have experienced in our lives?

I think that's a big yes.

Eastern Mind
10 August 2011, 07:56 PM
Last summer when I was in Canada, I had a very hard time with the customs people in Halifax. Of course, I was bone tired, the airlines had lost my luggage, and I got a snarly customs agent who seemed to be yelling at me. I did not know if I was in hostile territory...

...when I got to Halifax Hotel and I opened the drapes-- there waving brightly in the light, just outside of my window, was the American flag. I felt so comforted. I was not in hostile territory after all...

So, I guess I'm an American and that is how the world will see me, so it comforts me to get a sign of acknowledgement or whatever that feeling is...


Vannakkam Rosemary: The exact opposite (Canadian travelling to the US) used to happen to me, but now I've traveled extensively in America, it is like a second home. But within Sanatana Dharma, there is not much quite like India. You certainly don't have to look for a Hindu temple. There are other nations like Mauritius, but none quite like the Motherland. Personally, I feel very at home there as well, but its more of an inner feeling.

But I only have one other reason besides religion to travel: children.

Aum Namasivaya

Friend from the West
10 August 2011, 08:23 PM
Namaste EM and all,
What a interesting and complicated issue. In U.S., I have seen "blood in and blood out" gang bangers side with opposing bangers who were from their home city against their same gang members who were from different city. From South Africa I have seen blacks side with South African white fighter over black fighter from U.S. I have seen bigoted against whites African-American Hanafi side with white Hanafi, in life and death engagement against a African American. Because of assumed sameness, seen Catholic pedophile side with protestant pedophile against Catholic non-predator, and on and on it goes. Like a multi-dimensional asteriks. Figure it out???

In answer to question, those I used to be around answered that you know who you really are when a knife is to your throat. Do not have that degree of assurance yet, but think my answer would be, I am a striver.
When I really and truly realize am "there" all along, hope to see or sense you all there as well.
Peace.
FFTW

yajvan
10 August 2011, 10:13 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



Unfortunately as with many, I am unable at this juncture to hit samadhi, and wish to remain in a reasonable balanced position. :)

I can assure you that experiencing samādhi is easier then one thinks...
there are stages and approaches. It is so innocent and delicate. We cannot tackle it.
Now sustained samādhi is a different matter, yet over time, one brings more of this even-ness back to one's actions.

Perhaps a post or two on the components may be worthy of the effort on how patańjali’s yogadarśana calls it out , and perhaps how some on HDF may experience it.

praṇām

words
samādhi - putting together , joining or combining ; we know this as pure awareness, just awareness absorbed in itself.

Divine Kala
11 August 2011, 02:52 AM
What am I?

That is such a hard question, EM! How am I meant to answer it? But I think I shall try, for you.

I am a student, I am a writer, I am an artist, I am Hindu, I am me. I think my Hinduism does shape me, quite strongly, to the point that I am always on the look out for other Hindus! But so do the characters and stories rolling about in my head. I cannot go a single day without a scene presenting itself, begging to be written down and expressed. At the same time, I am a student and must occupy myself with my studies.

I think, all up, I can only say that I am Me. I am no less and, presently, no more than myself. Maybe, one day, I will attain samadhi and be more.

RosemaryOs
11 August 2011, 06:16 AM
The original question has been superimposed by another question:

am I "American" because my passport says so and thereby it is the world who is identifying me this way?

So again, is it myself who is making this identification, or is it the world?

Eastern Mind
11 August 2011, 07:32 AM
The original question has been superimposed by another question:

am I "American" because my passport says so and thereby it is the world who is identifying me this way?

So again, is it myself who is making this identification, or is it the world?

Vannakkam Rosemary: Yes, that is interesting. The two perspectives are often quite different. A freedom fighter (his own definition) can be seen as a terrorist by others.

A more mundane example is bad breath. The outsider certainly sees (smells) it better than we do ourselves.

Personally, I find truth in some of the psychological stuff regarding the outsider gets a better view sometimes. Self-reflection is a difficult process, yet is quite linked to spiritual progress within SD, and indeed humanity.

Aum Namasivaya

Ekoham
11 August 2011, 08:39 AM
Vannakkam: ...

So HDF members: "What are you?"

Aum Namasivaya

Good Question EM,

But when I thought about it nothing came to my mind, it just remained calm, not responding........now you tell me, what am I?

The above non-responsiveness of mind may be because,

"I have been robbed of all that I had, My Sadhna of Kundalini, my experience with Vipassana and even my, THE most cherished possession, BHAKTI ....... finally left with nothing. I am Shunya(Zero), a non-existent entity.

Pranam

Ekoham

Mana
11 August 2011, 10:01 AM
Namasté All.

Energy, pure energy.

The ebb and flow of local dharma and karma. Entwined with that of Shakti.

As are we all.

Local, as scale here is truly of the essence.

Local dharma of one may be perceived as a pinhead in comparison to that of another yet a mountain to the next but this is all one surface. The nature of dharma.

We are all aware of the illusive nature of local Karma, as she shows her self easyly to us and then again gracefully she hides.

The Divine nature of shakti gives form to all this, pulling pushing the ebbing forms.

Seen in order to be realise, you wouldn't go so far as to say that you know yourself as this. As it is from there that memory, experience and thought arise therefore we are solely that and not I.


Pranam.

Mana

smaranam
11 August 2011, 12:35 PM
Vannakkam Smaranam: So sect within religion is the priority for you. All other conditions are secondary? So long as you worship Krishna, all is okay? Does this affect relationships within humanity?


:)

Vannakam EasternJi

I am a little taken aback by your questions, but so glad you replied because now i know how my answer was taken.

Are we really to think of the outer temporal coverings ? KrushNa is merely a sect to you. To me He is E V E R Y T H I N G.

You would not object to someone who said "I am AtmA" , and those who understand KrushNa in the light i do, will not object to KrushNAli.
When you say "What are you ?" That is precisely what - "K r u s h N A l i" - i heard being called by that name.

I see the world thru' KrushNa. I am not this body-mind of this life. It has served well to bring Him and me together. But all that is behind me now.

Personal experience independant of any shAstra fits like hand in glove - so uncannily well - with what Lord Chaitanya told SanAtan Goswami :
"jivera 'svarupa' haya -- krishnera 'nitya-dasa' "
The svarUp (constitutional position) of a living entity is being an eternal servant of KrushNa.

Wow ! That is exactly what and who i am - but not *because* Lord Chaitanya said so. It just throws brighter light on Him being Saktyavesha avatar of KrushNa since the proof is in the pudding. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu takes off where KrushNa left it in the Geeta ( - sarva dharma parityajya ...BG 18.66)


I'm just trying to clarify this idea of balance. Another way I have thought about it is the hypothetical "If I had to go for a 3 day drive with another person, what would I want that person to be like?" So for you it should be a Krishna devotee?

No, not necessarily. The person i am spending time with is just as much "OF KRSNa" (belongs to KrushNa), as i am :) They just don't know it.


Wouldn't matter so much if the person was gay, American, Indian, white, Chinese, a farmer, Socialist, etc. If you had to priorise these factors, being a devotee of Krishna would be the first thing, right?

Only when it comes to satsang, yes, this would be the best satsang - with a KrushNa devotee.
Doesn't matter - gay chinese farmer socialist american indian white orange blue green pink yellow , all that gets tossed out of the window. Only because it would be KrushNa kathA and only KrushNa katha and kirtan for three whole days !

**HOWEVER** it would be enchanting with any harmless human ... perhaps an 18 inch golden monkey from VrundAvan would be cute too, i would be positive it is HanumAn whom KrushNa sent to protect me. Among other creatures, a Cow or an extra-terrestrial would be so much fun, as well as perhaps cat, dog, bird, ant, grasshopper, dragonfly ...
not sure about tiger though. If it was KrushNa's will - what a round-about way of calling me back to Him.


Of course, I'm excluding the obvious things. I just assume you'd rather ride with a white Christian American grandmother than a mass murderer.:)

Aum Namasivaya

I would love to go on a 3-day trip with a Christian grandma - they are one of the nicest sweetest loveliest Beings around.
As for Americans, it being my adopted country now, they are mine :) but i felt at home with Americans much too soon. I told my mother "Americans are very nice people" and it is true till date. Some of them bring out the nicest things in me. If they were not the easy going comforting group they are, which absorbs so many cultures and idiosyncrasies, they would not make such a great nation.

praNAm
_________________________________
vāsudeva-parā vedā
vāsudeva-parā makhāḥ
vāsudeva-parā yogā
vāsudeva-parāḥ kriyāḥ
vāsudeva-paraḿ jñānaḿ
vāsudeva-paraḿ tapaḥ
vāsudeva-paro dharmo
vāsudeva-parā gatiḥ
Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.2.28-29

om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~

Eastern Mind
11 August 2011, 01:01 PM
Vannakkam Smaranam: Thank you for the beautiful answer. Please understand I meant no offense, just trying to help myself understand the inner/outer dance and methods of thought that lead to being more inner than outer.

I certainly try not to focus on this type of labeling at all, but because it does come up here on HDF, and does create disharmony at times, the pondering came about. You've certainly convinced me that you walk the walk, not just talk the talk, and maybe that's the main point after all.

Aum Namasivaya

smaranam
11 August 2011, 01:54 PM
Oh i know you meant no offense. I am glad you asked and clarified.
Thanks for your original question

praNAm

sunyata07
11 August 2011, 02:43 PM
Namaste EM,

Depending on where you had post this topic, you can get one of two answers. Had you posted this in the canteen, the answers given back to you probably would have been more in line with what you were asking - how do you regard yourself, purely from a psychological stance of being curious as to how we - and more importantly - why we think as we do. But seeing as it is in the "I am a Hindu" forum, you can hope to post this question and not expect a resounding "I am the Self, of course! And that's all I really am!" from most of the members here.

Interesting question, though. My priorities of identification tend to shift around a lot, depending on the company I keep. Some days I see myself as nationality first, and on other days its race or gender. Whenever I hear talk of religion or God or I'm in the company of Christians, I immediately think Hindu, Hindu, Hindu. It's automatic at this stage. I find feedback from outsider observes can greatly exacerbate the self-identity you create for yourself, especially if it wasn't elicited and most especially if you're in a minority for some reason. Say in the case of your son's gay friend you had somehow made some derogatory comment about homosexuals (in such a situation you could have either anticipated that this individual was gay, or maybe you were the kind who loves shooting their mouth off); depending on his personality, your son's friend could have either been ruffled at the comment and been given an excuse to lash out and defend himself, or kept his indignation quiet, thereby becoming polarised in his view of being gay ("Rotten homophobes! This is exactly the kind of reaction I expect from just about everyone I meet.") I don't understand the eagerness either to brand yourself gay so that everyone you meet straight away knows that's at the top of your list in being a person, rather than basic humanity. Maybe TBTL is right: some people just consider themselves through the eyes of sexual orientation. Unless it's something to do with gay culture, in general? The same can be said for any other label, of course. I'm just using an example.

FFTW makes a great point. You see identifications, and then you see sub-identifications. It says a lot about human nature when you see how pyramidal this association through groups is as it works its way down. So you don't just get a labelling of being American, it goes: nationality, state, county, city, district, town/village, estate, family, etc. Isn't it unusual to see how quickly these potentially rival groups can become cohesive or separate, depending upon a situation? With sports you can see this quite easily. Let's take football, for example (that's soccer to all you Yankees out there ;)). On an international scope, there is a lot of pride in the fans for their home country's team. You get all sorts of races, politics and religions uniting together in the spirit of wanting to defeat the opposing country's tream. And then there's the league games, where you see rivalling football clubs from neighbouring playing against each other, and you wind up with something like hooliganism, where fellow countrymen will beat each other up over a football match.

Om namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
11 August 2011, 04:49 PM
Namaste EM,

Depending on where you had post this topic, you can get one of two answers. Had you posted this in the canteen, the answers given back to you probably would have been more in line with what you were asking - how do you regard yourself, purely from a psychological stance of being curious as to how we - and more importantly - why we think as we do.

Vannakkam Sunyata: Excellent points as usual. Yes, I had thought about where to post it. Couldn't really find a suitable place. But all the answers so far were valuable to me. I think it boils down to being a total of all your experiences, and then being affected by temporal situations. Certainly each of us plays out a lot of different roles in life, but the essence remains the same. I do believe overidentification with a certain role isn't exactly healthy, as in some professional athletes.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
11 August 2011, 06:33 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namasté

How does the wise answer this question ?

It is said as ādi śaṅkara-ji was seeking his master he came upon a sage that asked him ' who are you ? '; to this he replied with the following 6 stanzas. This is called nirvāṇaṣaṭkam¹.


I am not mind, wisdom, pride, and heart. Or I am not ear, tongue, nose and eyes. I am not sky, land, power, and wind. I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ)
I am not the state of being alive or the five types of prāṇavāyu. I am not the seven elements constituting the body (dhātu-s or the constitution of the body) or I am not the five sheaths which hide the soul. I am not voice, hand, or legs. I am not the portion at the bottom of waist (anus or liṅga). I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ)
I am not the state of envy and passion or I am not the emotions of greed and attachment. I am not intoxication or I am not the emotion of jealousy. And I am not even the four puruṣārtha, (the 4 goals in life dharma, artha, kāma and mokṣa). I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).
I am not puṇya or pāpa ( ~fortune/merit or or sin~), friendship, or grief. I am not the chants or shrines. I am not the Veda, the sacrifice and the oblation. I am not even the action of eating, or the one that should be eaten (food), or the consumer. I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).
I am not death, I am not the doubts, I am not the differences between races. I am not a father, I am not a mother, or not even the birth. I am not a relative, I am not a preceptor, or I am not even a disciple. I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss ( śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).
I am free from changes, and lack all the qualities and forms. I am present everywhere in all the sense-organs. I am not free or I am not even associated. I am not measurable (in any way). I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).praṇām


words
nirvāṇa+ṣaṭ+kam

nirvāṇa - blown or put out , extinguished calmed , quieted , tamed ; yet as a as a noun it is perfect calm or repose or happiness , highest bliss;
ṣaṭ+kam ṣaṭ = ṣaḍ = 6 or 6 times + kam;
kam can be looked as as an affirmative sense of ' yes' or ' well' due to its being at the end of the word; kam has many applications and meanings, as kam is also happiness, welfare, etc. ( note too ká is a noun of brahman).Hence, the 6 stanzas that offer perfect calm and happiness.

kallol
12 August 2011, 09:38 AM
Who are you ? The body ? the mind ? the atma ?

The answers are different for the different levels.

At physical (gross matter) level it is my space, time and culture.

At mental (subtle matter) level, I am all with me - spirituality - knowledge

At atma (consciousness) level - it does not matter !!!!

So that's me.

Love and best wishes

devotee
12 August 2011, 09:57 AM
Namaste EM,


What are you?

I don't know. The real "I" is deep buried under so many layers of Upadhis and illusive appearances. I am seeking myself and that is why I am a "Self-seeker".

OM

Ekoham
13 August 2011, 09:04 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namasté

How does the wise answer this question ?

It is said as ādi śaṅkara-ji was seeking his master he came upon a sage that asked him ' who are you ? '; to this he replied with the following 6 stanzas. This is called nirvāṇaṣaṭkamą.


I am not mind, wisdom, pride, and heart. Or I am not ear, tongue, nose and eyes. I am not sky, land, power, and wind. I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ)
I am not the state of being alive or the five types of prāṇavāyu. I am not the seven elements constituting the body (dhātu-s or the constitution of the body) or I am not the five sheaths which hide the soul. I am not voice, hand, or legs. I am not the portion at the bottom of waist (anus or liṅga). I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ)
I am not the state of envy and passion or I am not the emotions of greed and attachment. I am not intoxication or I am not the emotion of jealousy. And I am not even the four puruṣārtha, (the 4 goals in life dharma, artha, kāma and mokṣa). I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).
I am not puṇya or pāpa ( ~fortune/merit or or sin~), friendship, or grief. I am not the chants or shrines. I am not the Veda, the sacrifice and the oblation. I am not even the action of eating, or the one that should be eaten (food), or the consumer. I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).
I am not death, I am not the doubts, I am not the differences between races. I am not a father, I am not a mother, or not even the birth. I am not a relative, I am not a preceptor, or I am not even a disciple. I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss ( śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).
I am free from changes, and lack all the qualities and forms. I am present everywhere in all the sense-organs. I am not free or I am not even associated. I am not measurable (in any way). I am thought and joy, I am eternal-bliss, I am eternal-bliss (śivohaṁ śivohaṁ).praṇām


words
nirvāṇa+ṣaṭ+kam

nirvāṇa - blown or put out , extinguished calmed , quieted , tamed ; yet as a as a noun it is perfect calm or repose or happiness , highest bliss;
ṣaṭ+kam ṣaṭ = ṣaḍ = 6 or 6 times + kam;
kam can be looked as as an affirmative sense of ' yes' or ' well' due to its being at the end of the word; kam has many applications and meanings, as kam is also happiness, welfare, etc. ( note too ká is a noun of brahman).Hence, the 6 stanzas that offer perfect calm and happiness.


Namaste Yajvanji,

Thanks for putting such wonderful quotes. Simply Great!


Who are you ? The body ? the mind ? the atma ?

The answers are different for the different levels.

At physical (gross matter) level it is my space, time and culture.

At mental (subtle matter) level, I am all with me - spirituality - knowledge

At atma (consciousness) level - it does not matter !!!!

So that's me.

Love and best wishes

Namaste Kallol,

Simple and straight, wonderful explanation. Nothing left to be said.

Pranam

Ekoham

Kismet
14 August 2011, 10:02 AM
Great Topic, EM

I seriously think time has to be factored into this. Am I the same person I was four days or four months ago? Yes and no. I am because there was an adequate holdover from my personality as it was then. But, all things being changing, we have to keep evolving and adapting.

First and foremost of course I am one with God. Tat-Twam-Asi. That is my ultimate identity, true source of being, and so on.

But, even though that comes first, that is only half the picture. The other half is my actual personality. Who I am as a human being. Human + BEING.

That human part is always changing, always fresh, always handling different inputs. Best to flow like water, be one with the wind...

Eastern Mind
14 August 2011, 10:20 AM
Namaste EM and all,
What a interesting and complicated issue. In U.S., I have seen "blood in and blood out" gang bangers side with opposing bangers who were from their home city against their same gang members who were from different city. From South Africa I have seen blacks side with South African white fighter over black fighter from U.S. I have seen bigoted against whites African-American Hanafi side with white Hanafi, in life and death engagement against a African American. Because of assumed sameness, seen Catholic pedophile side with protestant pedophile against Catholic non-predator, and on and on it goes. Like a multi-dimensional asteriks. Figure it out???

In answer to question, those I used to be around answered that you know who you really are when a knife is to your throat. Do not have that degree of assurance yet, but think my answer would be, I am a striver.
When I really and truly realize am "there" all along, hope to see or sense you all there as well.
Peace.
FFTW

Vannakkam FFTW: I really like this, and its drawn me into more pondering. I remember this question of loyalty to a group, and the nature of how it changes. In the school I taught there might be 2 classes of Grade 6, for example, named after the teacher usually, so there would be 6S and 6T. Within 2 weeks of school, the two classes would be polarised with each students identifying themselves with "I'm from 6S", or "I'm from 6T". There would be informal yet obvious competition even, comparing each teacher, and the like.

Then the following year the same students would be realigned to be in different classes, and the loyalty thing would switch around, people would refind friends they had 3 years ago, discover new friends they once never talked to, and the like.

It was amazing to watch, mostly because of the surprises. Just when you thought you had a handle on some kid, it would flip. These things indeed are very temporal, in the big picture.

Aum Namasivaya

Friend from the West
14 August 2011, 10:52 AM
Namaste,
EM, wow. Your post reminded me of something I had forgotten about.
I will share link and hope it works. This school teacher in 60s was going to do a class to help ease discrimination against American Indians than right before class, Martin Luther King was assasinated and she changed the script at end.
Very powerful to watch these kids do exactly as you have observed.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=frol02p66&continuous=1

As a side note, in this christian, I think all white community, she was ostracized for doing what you viewed.

Peace to you and to everyone.

FFTW