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wundermonk
13 August 2011, 02:14 PM
News article here (http://www.npr.org/2011/08/09/138957812/evangelicals-question-the-existence-of-adam-and-eve).

Pretty much the beginning of the end of Xianity and Islam as I see it. :D

c.smith
13 August 2011, 07:05 PM
Hari Om!

Hey, pretty neat stuff.

Funny thing is, I was asking some of these tough questions at a very early age as a young christian by birth (not by choice mind you, i was born into it, i didn't know any better at the time). My parents couldn't answer, the preacher couldn't answer, so essentially I lost what little "faith" I had. I think that I've gone into this in another thread.

But overall, cool!

Jainarayan
13 August 2011, 07:33 PM
News article here (http://www.npr.org/2011/08/09/138957812/evangelicals-question-the-existence-of-adam-and-eve).

Pretty much the beginning of the end of Xianity and Islam as I see it. :D

Nope, not yet nor in the foreseeable future. Not when at least 4 billion people worldwide profess either Christianity or Islam. Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs and Jains together account for only about 1.5 billion adherents (http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html).

That may be a hard pill to swallow but it's the truth. In the US alone, out of a population of >300 million, the majority profess some denomination of Christianity, whether they practice or not. My family hasn't set foot in a church since the last wedding 5-6 years ago. Yet they will tell you flat out they are Roman Catholic. :rolleyes:

Now, evangelical=fundamentalist. Evangelical is a euphemism for the fundamentalcases. Despite the noise the fundies make, they are a small minority of the Christian population of the US. They've tried to ram laws through state legislatures and Congress and failed. They failed either because they couldn't get enough legislators to vote with them, or because state and federal courts slapped them down. Gotta love our judicial system.

Unfortunately, the conservatives who are beginning to see the light will be "buried on page 6". They won't get much press even from the scientific community because there are too few. The only real way to stop Christian evangelism and proselytizing is by law. In the US at least, the First Amendment prohibits that. It's a double edged sword for us.

In the final analysis all that's coming out of this is that they're saying "Darwinian evolution" is not incompatible with Christianity. They're just saying the bible is not literal. Even the Roman Catholic, Anglican and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept that.

Islam is too stuck in the 13th century for any progress to be made. Any Muslims who openly profess evolution aren't "buried on page 6", they're just plain buried.

sanjaya
13 August 2011, 09:30 PM
While I'd love to see people just stop practicing all forms of Christianity, I doubt that this is a prelude to the end of the Christian religion. If the "Christian scholars" discussed here were theologians at places like Southern Baptist Theological Seminary or Westminster, then this would be a problem for evangelical Christianity. However, Christian scientists have questioned evolution for some time (from what I hear anyway). It's pretty hard to study biology in great detail and not believe in evolution, regardless of your professed faith. It just entails too many contradictions for the human mind to handle.

Really, the general Christian public needs to stop believing in creationism. Maybe if they stop believing that, they'll also stop believing that you have to convert to Christianity to escape an imaginary hell, and they'll stop funding missionaries to go to India.

kallol
13 August 2011, 10:43 PM
Religions are not followed because it is logical, scientific, etc.

Most of worlds population do not understand these also. I have a friend who is engineering scientist but believes these theories also - with passion.

The religion growth depend on these people and not the logical & scientific people.

So hold on to the celebrations - not yet - not yet in future also.

Love and best wishes

shantiseeker
13 August 2011, 11:02 PM
As a recovering Christian myself, this has been the quintessential Bible story from day one, and then as an adult, realizing that it is then basis on God sending himself to Earth as the son, to go through the torment of crucifixion all because the first two people alone erred? So a man has to be nailed to a cross, pierced with a sword for this? To save future people then? Many of whom continue to be the biggest liars and "sinners" around? I don't just "dismiss" the historical Jesus necessarily, and he was counter-culture in his time, and would be aghast at the nastiness and atrocities committed in his name through the ages. I have had too much of that in my face. From colleagues who frowned at me because my then Christianity wasn't the "right brand". I've had Jehovah's Witness banging at my door in the past who actually RETURNED to my house, and I'm like sheesh, you're PUSHING me away, not bringing me to you. And then like mentioned here already, I've known countless Roman Catholics who haven't darkened the doors of a church in years, but heaven forbid they be anything but "Catholic". I even knew one person who said "I can't imagine being anything else."-but hadn't attended a Roman Catholic Mass in probably 10 years. I did not say anything due to not wanting to offend, but I was like, you can't imagine being "anything else", but what the heck ARE you really if you don't even participate in the religion you so stubbornly state you ascribe to?? I also have known plenty RC women who use birth control, and another one who said as far as being RC, she just kind of goes along with the "package deal", so it's this pick and choose, cafeteria style approach anyway. The above are literal quotes. I don't agree with Fundamentalists, but at least some of them appear to actually BELIEVE. But then you see the scandals with the televangelists too, and I have an acquaintance couple, and the husband sure as heck committed "adultery", so sorry, there's no such thing as the absolute that is preached.
IMHO, it's just programmed propaganda with people on this autopilot, like automatons.

wundermonk
13 August 2011, 11:37 PM
Yes...folks here are right...it is a bit premature to celebrate but I will still call it the beginning of the end...atleast folks [theologicians themselves] are realizing that Adam/Eve story is myth.

For Xity, as the article points out, if Adam/Eve, garden, apple, etc. never existed, there is no concept of original sin and hence no need of a messiah.

For Islam, the entire edifice of progressive revelation on which its theology depends [Adam's children didnt follow monotheism, so Allah had to send new prophets, etc.] falls flat.

Both these religions are so unidimensional that if any of the intervening points is proven false, the entire edifice pretty much crumbles, at a theological/intellectual level.

But yes, on the ground practical realities may be different.

kallol
14 August 2011, 04:39 AM
Mullahs and likewise will find new ways to seduce the poor, illiterates of the world. There is no dearth of such people !!!!! :D

wundermonk
16 August 2011, 10:34 PM
You forgot Judaism, the other trash can from the middle east/west. They too believe in that incestuous fairy tale.

I generally tend to leave Judaism out of my posts due to the combination of the following factors:

(a)The Jews I have met in real life have all been extremely secular.
(b)I think there is a natural alliance that can be formed between Judaism and Hinduism [Israel and India] as both have been at the receiving end of Islamic barbarity.
(c)I dont care what beliefs someone holds as long as someone doesnt try and convert me into accepting that belief with the promise of eternal hellfire if I dont. I have never seen Jews go about converting people. This may be because Jews consider themselves the "chosen people" or whatever. But still.

Kismet
16 August 2011, 10:43 PM
Yes...folks here are right...it is a bit premature to celebrate but I will still call it the beginning of the end...atleast folks [theologicians themselves] are realizing that Adam/Eve story is myth.


Well, in all actuality in higher Christian circles it's been pretty much known for a century or more that there probably was no historical Adam and Eve.

The thing with any religious dogma is that people can continuously alter its meaning or purport in spite of the empirical evidence. And I don't always see this is as a bad thing. It may, for instance, flesh out a deeper color to much of our narratives about God and what they are really trying to express more on a psychological level if not literally.