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Friend from the West
27 August 2011, 10:40 PM
Namaste,
Found this tonight and just frustrating. Article, regarding author of Eat, Pray, and Love. Puts words, thoughts, of another into article that have not been spoken. Offers a pithy little intro. to serve as a false analogy.
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/no-2-religion-yes-2-faith/2011/jun/27/did-elizabeth-gilbert-chose-gurus-postmodernism-ov/

etc...

Although all is frustrating, the claimed nexus between the prevelant (at least in the states) claiming victimhood and SD, is irksome beyond words in that it is the opposite of what our scriptures say and what we find through our practices thus validating even further the scriptures. Making no distinction between SD to some new age fad is also frustrating. As individuals or as a forum, what can we do in the appropriate manner?
Peace.
FFTW

sanjaya
28 August 2011, 12:20 AM
Oh god, there are so many things wrong here.


My big concern for Gilbert is, Siddha yoga and the eastern tradition are basically amoral and trivialize moral behaviour, just giving a casual nod to what they consider prudent social mores.

I find it interesting that this person is Indian and doesn't even acknowledge that Indians have far stricter morals than people in the West. Yes, Christians don't like their Christianity to be associated with "the West." But since he's talking about morality on a social level, I don't see a better alternative than to use a Christianized society as an example. Christianity had around 1600 years to infiltrate every facet of Western society. If it couldn't prevent the trivialization of morality in the West (which it has not), then I believe the religion is impotent to ever do so.


If India is the source of great spiritual learning, something is not right – there are too many inconsistencies and no evidence of transformation in people’s lives. Widespread disregard exists for the most vulnerable – the poor, women, children and animals; the filth of our cities, the unbelievable corruption, the recurring religious violence and the grip of the caste system.

Except for the government corruption and possibly the filth, I don't think any of this is correct. And to find nations that do meet these criteria, we needn't even bring up medieval Europe (which met every one, by the way). Many of the same problems exist in South America, which is overwhelmingly Christian. If Hinduism can be judged by the practices of a thoroughly Hindu society, then we should be able to judge Christianity by the same measuring stick, should we not? But Christianity doesn't measure up. I will happily concede that Christian America is a prosperous nation. But so is Sweden, which is effectively atheist. As I've said before: there seems to be no correlation between Christianity and moral behavior. If all Christians were very moral, it would show Christianity's power to impart virtue to its adherants. If every Christian were immoral, perhaps it would show their need for the religion. The fact that Christians can fall into both groups is I think the most damning criticism of Christianity.


In my quest for communicating Christ not Christianity, it intrigues me to observe people who tenaciously hang on to a religion because they are bound by tradition and those more courageous like Gilbert who give it up to try something else. But the chances are neither people like her nor many traditionalists truly encounter the Galilean or really give him a chance in their lives.

Easy to say when most evangelical Christians are Europeans holding on to their traditions. As to his last statement here, there are those of us who've read the Bible, given Christianity a fair hearing, and rejected it.


“Jesus is the bodhisattva who fulfilled his dharma to pay for my karma to negate samsara and achieve nirvana!” explains British author and politician Ram Gidoomal. “As a Hindu I believed in Reincarnation. This meant I believed as a human being I carried a huge karmic debt. This was the burden of all the wrong things I had ever done as well as all the un-atoned for wrong that my ancestors had done too. All I could see was a future of endless striving to pay off this debt. I was looking for a guru who could help me to find a way out of this appalling accumulated karmic debt.

I don't mean to sound pithy or to insult this person. But Ram Gidommal could have relieved himself of the burden of karma by simply repeating God's name. He might have saved himself an awful lot of the trouble that comes with conversion.

Ananda
28 August 2011, 01:25 AM
To me the author of the article is simply coming across as bitter that people are looking elsewhere for religious satisfaction than his precious jesus, and so he is trying to frame the other religions in a bad light by associating them with postmodern ideas and ills of society.

He also makes a specious distinction between Christianity and 'personal faith in jesus' as a way of rationalizing away the fact that people in the west have became attracted by eastern religions precisely because Christianity and its values have failed them. Essentially he is erecting the 'no true scotsman' fallacy whereby 'all the people who left Christianity and became interested in eastern religion weren't true christians, they didnt have personal faith in jesus, all they knew was the institutionalised religion of Christianity, and that isn't the real Christianity'.


:rolleyes:

sunyata07
28 August 2011, 09:42 AM
Namaste FFTW,

Ridiculous article. Filled with so many inaccurate statements and inconsistencies I lost count after the first few paragraphs. Was this author an Indian? I find that very hard to believe. It sounded like something written by some highly ignorant evangelical Christian that's been brainwashed all his life out in the Bible Belt of the States.



I find it impossible to accept any form of religion as profitable because of the in-your-face evil that is rampant in society. Religion by its very nature cannot be personal, no religion has succeeded in transforming an individual or a society, only authentic, personal faith has the capacity for a direct relationship with one’s Maker.


Aren't the bold statements complete contradictions of each other? This author doesn't seem to even know what he wants to say. He seems to be advocating the type of spirituality that is more in line with SD; that is, relying on direct experience with God by yourself, and not becoming dependent on what others teach you explicitly about what is and what is not. And yet, he seems to think Christianity is really like this, but because of the church it is misrepresented or misunderstood? I don't think so.

It helps to know this article was poorly written, not just in taste, but in the accuracy of his facts and arguments. Not even the commentors at the end of the article seem fooled by this nonsense.

Om namah Shivaya

sanjaya
28 August 2011, 09:57 AM
Ridiculous article. Filled with so many inaccurate statements and inconsistencies I lost count after the first few paragraphs. Was this author an Indian? I find that very hard to believe. It sounded like something written by some highly ignorant evangelical Christian that's been brainwashed all his life out in the Bible Belt of the States.

Well, the author's name is Frank Raj, and he resides somewhere in the Middle East. My guess is that he was born an Indian Christian. I know that Indian Christians tend to have Western names. "Frank" isn't even from the Bible, and if he converted you'd think he'd change his name to something Biblical. But who knows.



Aren't the bold statements complete contradictions of each other? This author doesn't seem to even know what he wants to say. He seems to be advocating the type of spirituality that is more in line with SD; that is, relying on direct experience with God by yourself, and not becoming dependent on what others teach you explicitly about what is and what is not. And yet, he seems to think Christianity is really like this, but because of the church it is misrepresented or misunderstood? I don't think so.

So this is a new gimmick on the part of evangelical salesmen. "Religion" is contrasted with Christianity. The former is old, stale traditionalism, and the latter is a vibrant, personal relationship with Jesus. At least that's what they tell you; once you buy in you quickly find yourself paying tithes to a church and obeying all the rules. I suppose the only thing that distinguishes evangelical Christianity is that they play rock music in church. I can't see the appeal, but maybe my aversion to Western rock makes me immune to evangelical Christians.

Christians are trying to reconvert the West by portraying Christianity as the "un-religion." I suppose they've adapted the language to convert Indian Hindus. They're telling us we need to stop being religious...and then convert to Christianity. Ironic, once you can see that rock music doesn't make evangelical Christianity any less of a religion.

Ananda
28 August 2011, 12:04 PM
Hello sanjaya,



Christians are trying to reconvert the West by portraying Christianity as the "un-religion." I suppose they've adapted the language to convert Indian Hindus. They're telling us we need to stop being religious...and then convert to Christianity. Ironic, once you can see that rock music doesn't make evangelical Christianity any less of a religion.

That's precisely right. How many times has this trite saying been thrown out by christians;


It's not a religion, it's a relationship with Jesus!


:rolleyes:

shantiseeker
03 September 2011, 04:35 PM
Oh good grief. What an absurd article! What a rudeness to claim Eastern religions are amoral! Does the author of that article have ANY idea of the atrocities committed in Christian history? And the modern day acts I witness all the time of fundamentalist Christians judging people & belittling others is MORAL??

jaggin
22 November 2011, 08:36 AM
Oh good grief. What an absurd article! What a rudeness to claim Eastern religions are amoral! Does the author of that article have ANY idea of the atrocities committed in Christian history? And the modern day acts I witness all the time of fundamentalist Christians judging people & belittling others is MORAL??

Journalists are not necessarily the most erudite of people.

One does not debate by patting ones opponent on the back and telling him how wonderful his beliefs are. If you wish to take a defending position, then be my guest. So far you haven't done so.

jaggin
22 November 2011, 08:57 AM
Well, the author's name is Frank Raj, and he resides somewhere in the Middle East. My guess is that he was born an Indian Christian. I know that Indian Christians tend to have Western names. "Frank" isn't even from the Bible, and if he converted you'd think he'd change his name to something Biblical. But who knows.

So this is a new gimmick on the part of evangelical salesmen. "Religion" is contrasted with Christianity. The former is old, stale traditionalism, and the latter is a vibrant, personal relationship with Jesus. At least that's what they tell you; once you buy in you quickly find yourself paying tithes to a church and obeying all the rules. I suppose the only thing that distinguishes evangelical Christianity is that they play rock music in church. I can't see the appeal, but maybe my aversion to Western rock makes me immune to evangelical Christians.

Christians are trying to reconvert the West by portraying Christianity as the "un-religion." I suppose they've adapted the language to convert Indian Hindus. They're telling us we need to stop being religious...and then convert to Christianity. Ironic, once you can see that rock music doesn't make evangelical Christianity any less of a religion.

The view is that a change to Christian religion without forming a relationship with Jesus is no more beneficial than staying in the religion you are in. In theory you could retain your religion after forming that relationship but in actuality Jesus might decide to change things around for you. I think there is is a great deal of paternalism in Christianity. The concept is that the person has not yet reached maturity in his Christian walk and therfore needs guidance.