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jaggin
31 December 2006, 12:03 PM
The answer to this question is: no. God created man to be good and after creating man declared him to be good.

Wher does sin come from then? God created the angels and men with free will. Anyone can think of anything good or evil. Without God man has a tendency to choose the evil that he can think.

Now I have a question that a have no answer for. Why is man separated from God in such a way that He chooses evil over God?

The stock in trade Christian answer is that choosing evil separates us from God but the truth is that often enough men choose evil even in the presence of God. Judas was in the presence of Jesus but still chose evil.

willie
31 December 2006, 08:51 PM
I don't think much of the stock answer. Perhaps it has more to do with the condition of man and his cicumstances. Man has to survive in a hostile enviroment and make do with limited resources. Plus there are diseases and hostilities to deal with and a bunch of socalled holy men , who only divide up the faithful into groups so they can fight each other.

In some ways the devil got a better deal, no hunger and no death to worry about and even god granted him respite until the final judgement at the end of time.

Maybe the real divide is that god tells man what he is suppost to do and the devil lets man do what he wants to do?

Some men will build kingdoms only to die and leave then , others will lie , cheat and steal to acquire wealth and then die and leave it to undeserving relatives. Some will be false holymen because it beats working for and honest living but they to will die and leave it all behind.

But despite all this god keeps going on and trying to guide people to do the right thing.

yajvan
02 January 2007, 11:00 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Some men will build kingdoms only to die and leave then , others will lie , cheat and steal to acquire wealth and then die and leave it to undeserving relatives. Some will be false holymen because it beats working for and honest living but they to will die and leave it all behind.

Namaste Wille,
some of your points are valid, but for certain times. There were times where kings were enlightened Kasatriya, wise men, who took care of their people , the needs , etc (King Janaka).

It's a function of the age one lives in. The 'rules' and dharma are different.
Society is different in different ages. The things you discuss above are called out in the Mahabhrata, a sign of the times for Kali Yuga.

Yet, we are not victims of this time or ones fate:
"Fate is nothing other then self-effort of a past incarnation... THERE IS NO POWER GREATER THEN RIGHT ACTION IN THE PRESENT " said Brahmarshi Vasistha to Sri Ram [chap 2: sutra's 4 & 5 of Vasista's Yoga.]

jaggin
03 January 2007, 06:27 AM
I don't think much of the stock answer. Perhaps it has more to do with the condition of man and his cicumstances. Man has to survive in a hostile enviroment and make do with limited resources. Plus there are diseases and hostilities to deal with and a bunch of socalled holy men , who only divide up the faithful into groups so they can fight each other.

In some ways the devil got a better deal, no hunger and no death to worry about and even god granted him respite until the final judgement at the end of time.

Maybe the real divide is that god tells man what he is suppost to do and the devil lets man do what he wants to do?

Some men will build kingdoms only to die and leave then , others will lie , cheat and steal to acquire wealth and then die and leave it to undeserving relatives. Some will be false holymen because it beats working for and honest living but they to will die and leave it all behind.

But despite all this god keeps going on and trying to guide people to do the right thing.

This has not been my experience. God allows me to do anything that is good and sometimes ignores the little sins but the devil has always worked hard to deceive me and attempt to tempt me into evil acts. The devil even had the gall to try to tempt God in Jesus to do evil. Maybe he thought finding God in a body would provide him an opportunity.

atanu
07 January 2007, 09:46 AM
This has not been my experience. God allows me to do anything that is good and sometimes ignores the little sins but the devil has always worked hard to deceive me and attempt to tempt me into evil acts. The devil even had the gall to try to tempt God in Jesus to do evil. Maybe he thought finding God in a body would provide him an opportunity.

God and Devil both are in the same consciousness -- that again is with you. Carefully reading Bible will reveal it -- even to Christians.

By holding on to Om in their breath, the Devas defeat the DEMONS.

Sudarshan
07 January 2007, 10:41 AM
This has not been my experience. God allows me to do anything that is good and sometimes ignores the little sins but the devil has always worked hard to deceive me and attempt to tempt me into evil acts. The devil even had the gall to try to tempt God in Jesus to do evil. Maybe he thought finding God in a body would provide him an opportunity.

Yes, be careful. The devil called ignorance( not any being in the sky) is the culprit. Equip yourself with enough knowledge of scripture, the do's and dont's. The devil is scared of those who follow dharma. This devil functions under the control of God, and to those who take shelter in God, the devil may have to remain jobless. It is all in your hands.

jaggin
16 January 2007, 11:08 AM
Yes, be careful. The devil called ignorance( not any being in the sky) is the culprit. Equip yourself with enough knowledge of scripture, the do's and dont's. The devil is scared of those who follow dharma. This devil functions under the control of God, and to those who take shelter in God, the devil may have to remain jobless. It is all in your hands.

Actually the Bible says that He roams to and fro on the earth seeking whom he may devour like a lion seeks his prey. Ignorance that the devil can whisper evil suggestions in your ear gives rise to a person thinking that the evil ideas are his own.

I agree. Those who follow dharma don't give the devil an opportunity.

I also agree with this statement. God is all powerful and the devil is not. However I couldn't verify for you whether the devil is on a short leash or not. When the Kingdom of God comes on earth the devil will be bound and won't be able to cause anyone trouble.

This is the best place to be. However God will sometimes allow the devil to test you and the devil has plenty of deceptive devices, so it doesn't hurt to be vigilant.

Sudarshan
16 January 2007, 12:52 PM
Actually the Bible says that He roams to and fro on the earth seeking whom he may devour like a lion seeks his prey. Ignorance that the devil can whisper evil suggestions in your ear gives rise to a person thinking that the evil ideas are his own.



Do you mean evil spirits when you mean the devil? They can trouble you materially, but no spirit can block the spiritual path of another soul. It is entirely between God and the soul. People just blame a non existant devil for their own evil thoughts - a very lame excuse.

If at all you hear some suggestions in your ears, it must be some hallucination or some disease. Yes, God can talk to you but not the devil.



I agree. Those who follow dharma don't give the devil an opportunity.

I also agree with this statement. God is all powerful and the devil is not. However I couldn't verify for you whether the devil is on a short leash or not. When the Kingdom of God comes on earth the devil will be bound and won't be able to cause anyone trouble.


:confused: Are you assuming that I believe in this coming of God's kingdom and the tying up of the devil? Our view is different.




This is the best place to be. However God will sometimes allow the devil to test you and the devil has plenty of deceptive devices, so it doesn't hurt to be vigilant.


Yes, God tests in plenty. He does not need the services of the devil perhaps - he can do it directly. It does not hurt much to loose this test of God, because you will always have another chance. Even if you pass, the tests are possibly endless until you loose your ego in toto.

jaggin
13 February 2007, 06:43 AM
Do you mean evil spirits when you mean the devil? They can trouble you materially, but no spirit can block the spiritual path of another soul. It is entirely between God and the soul. People just blame a non existant devil for their own evil thoughts - a very lame excuse.

If at all you hear some suggestions in your ears, it must be some hallucination or some disease. Yes, God can talk to you but not the devil.



:confused: Are you assuming that I believe in this coming of God's kingdom and the tying up of the devil? Our view is different.




Yes, God tests in plenty. He does not need the services of the devil perhaps - he can do it directly. It does not hurt much to loose this test of God, because you will always have another chance. Even if you pass, the tests are possibly endless until you loose your ego in toto.

It is from the Bible which states: the devil. I am not sure that anyone can discern an evil spirit from the devil and what difference does it make considering that they are in cohoots (working together). Most often what people experience are familiar spirits which aren't any more sinful than you or I but a person can be bamboozled (fooled) by a demon spirit masquerading as a familiar spirit.


There are people who believe hearing from God is only a hallucination. A spiritually awake person is receptive to spiritual things. I make it a policy not to think evil thoughts. Any evil suggestions aren't coming from me.


The pediction has been scientifically verified. There is an asteroid large enough to cause this world a fiery end. The prediction is that we will blow it up but the pieces will be large enough to cause a fire storm over all the earth. Those who get off the earth will live. The prediction is that a city has been built for all those who wish to escape this cataclism. The rest belongs to Christian theology but I doubt that will be a problem given the alternative which is death.