Papaji?

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

I have been learning a lot about past controversies with Gurus and teachers that have had scandalous activity associated with them. In particular I learned of Eli (the husband of Gangaji) had a sexual relationship with a student while married to Gangaji. Gangaji separated from him, but again got back together with him. Now I see that he STILL teaches about the 'Self'. Now of course we cast judgement in much of our relationships, but I would think it wise to save $400 instead of going to a satsang with a man who is talking about the Self and yet has had a cheating relationship while before claiming to know the Self. I did not pay any particular attention to Eli as a teacher, because I was just not interested, but this is just an example of some scandals that occur.

I have heard also rumors that Papaji may have taken a second wife while his first wife was still alive? This I have not confirmed. I am asking the forum to see if anyone has any proof of this. I ask myself, Does it matter if he did? I do not know the answers. I am just curious.

I look forward to any insights on this.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam SS: Have you ever seen Rain Man? (or any other movie where the role was captivating) For awhile there (about 2 hours) I believed there was this poor chap riding the roads of America with his brother Ray, lost in his own little world. Dustin Hoffman was just that believable.

It would be relatively easy for any decent actor to pull off a fake swami role.

I'm not saying any swami is fake, or pointing fingers at anyone. But with the fairly simple message of Advaita, univeralism, ethics, and more, if you can read, memorise a few good quotes, sit still for 20 minutes or so in a meditative pose, learn to talk as if in trance, stare silently, and maybe learn a few more tricks, one could probably pull it off.

I haven't yet seen or heard anyone do that purposely, like say for 3 years, and then come out and just say, "I was faking it all along. Here's your money back. This was just a sociological experiment funded by the Harvard Department of Gullibility."

So its really buyer beware. I know I'd have a very hard time putting out 400 bucks. Pass the hat around, sure. That's different.

Best wishes staying on the right path.

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

But with the fairly simple message of Advaita, univeralism, ethics, and more, if you can read, memorise a few good quotes, sit still for 20 minutes or so in a meditative pose, learn to talk as if in trance, stare silently, and maybe learn a few more tricks, one could probably pull it off.
How about saffron robes and a long flowing beard to go with all that?

I haven't yet seen or heard anyone do that purposely, like say for 3 years, and then come out and just say, "I was faking it all along. Here's your money back. This was just a sociological experiment funded by the Harvard Department of Gullibility."That is a good business idea. If I ever try it, I am not likely to refund the money though.:)

[Mana]

Namasté

Sorry but I just can't get the sketch from Monty Python's "the life of Brian" from my mind, it just slipped in there.

"He's not the messiah; he's a very naughty boy!"

Excuse me, sorry to derail!

praNAma

mana

[Adhvagat]

Is he charging for a satsang/lecture?

If a "swami" charges $400 for his teachings do yourself a favor and forget his name forever.

Last month I went into this seminar and there was a "guru" there, of course he knew a lot and the knowledge he was passing on was pure and spiritual.

I think the problem arises exactly when these people pretend to be swamis and accept a title they are not ready. So they stay in this seat of authority but don't actually have it inside of them.

So it's confusing, while the knowledge they're passing on is golden, their behavior is very questionable. I personally would never follow a person with a questionable behavior. The problem is not even being attached to sexual life or whatever, he could very well do it with dignity, with his spouse. If he's no better than myself, then why should I regard him as a guru? I can fare a lot better by not making any projections unto a master figure that will let me down later on.

And people lately completely lost their sense of judgement regarding another person's energy and intention. All we need is some careful observation. Look at them, perceive the way they talk and look at the world, pretty quickly you realize if a person is saintly or not. See through your heart and the judgement shall be truthful.

I'm rambling a bit, but I didn't sleep.

[Eastern Mind]

How about saffron robes and a long flowing beard to go with all that?
That is a good business idea. If I ever try it, I am not likely to refund the money though.:)

Vannakkam Believer et al: Oh yeah, I forgot about that ... the robes. Some sharp looking beads too.

In all honesty, I didn't look at all, yet a Guru came into my life. If I were to look, and I'm certainly not about to, some degree of originality would be a prerequisite. Same old, same old, doesn't cut it for me.

Believer, I'm betting you'd refund the money. Your conscience would make your old shoulders stoop so low the folk on the street would think you had severe osteoporosis.

Aum Namasivaya

[Eastern Mind]

I'm rambling a bit, but I didn't sleep.

Vannakkam: If you come pay me 400 bucks, I can drone on for awhile. Guaranteed to put you to sleep.

Aum Namasivaya

[Adhvagat]

Vannakkam: If you come pay me 400 bucks, I can drone on for awhile. Guaranteed to put you to sleep.

Aum Namasivaya

Well, if I go all the way up to Canada and you also provide me some place to sleep... Why not? It should be cheaper than a few days at a hotel anyway. :)

[rkpande]

An interesting read.
http://www.strippingthegurus.com/index.html#stgtoc

[Mana]

Namasté

Oh... This individual clearly has a very black outlook on life; he sees darkness every where he looks. How very sad.

History lessons? Seriously! (http://spiritonthebrain.com/blog/)

Pranam

mana

[sunyata07]

Namaste,

I think there is a reason we were born with the faculty of discrimination, and the detection of what is sincere and what is deceitful or false. Like EM, while I would have my own opinions on certain personalities who focus on delivering spiritual messages to people on a globally wide scale, I would never tell somebody outright that (I feel) they are following a fake or a phoney guru, or swami. Let each man decide for himself who is real and who is not. I think intuition rarely steers one wrong here.

For my own POV, somehow talk of money always manages to taint spiritual instruction. There is a reason why spiritual wisdom is spiritual, and not simply knowledge to be obtained through payment! Leave that to the Scientologists, please. Now, don't get me wrong; I understand the necessity and reason for contributions and donations to gurus and swamis who live on the alms and compassion of others to sustain them with food, shelter, basic necessities, management of temple, going to a good cause or charity, etc. But to enrol oneself into a course on the Self for $400? Tell me this doesn't sound even a little questionable, and from a man who's very outward behaviour is not in alignment with the very teachings he gives.

I agree with Pietro on this one. Sure you can wear saffron robes and sprout the most glorious guru-beard on your chin, but I do believe sincerely spiritual people radiate an aura which is unmistakeable. In every pore of their being, they exude that absolute tranquility and completedness of one who knows the Self. To have a happy marriage and conjugal relations with one's spouse is certainly not the least indicative of a false teacher, but to be involved duplicitous and dishonest behaviour would most certainly start ringing alarm bells for me.



An interesting read.
http://www.strippingthegurus.com/index.html#stgtoc


Hmm... I'm wondering about the author's background and beliefs. If he's not Hindu or even a theist, why would one even begin to go to this source in questioning the authenticity of the gurus?

Om namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam all

i find it strange for any Gurus/ Swami to go out and seek disciples. through out the history of Bharat, disciples go to Gurukul to learn and at the end, the disciples would give Guru Daksina. Actually to put a price on Knowledge is an insult.
Yes there are many Gurus who travel to impart knowledge to masses but to make big institutes and then spend all the energy to maintain the same, somewhere along the line the real spiritual purpose goes out of the window.

Anyone who asks for huge money upfront i would just shy away.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

Pranam all

i find it strange for any Gurus/ Swami to go out and seek disciples. through out the history of Bharat, disciples go to Gurukul to learn and at the end, the disciples would give Guru Daksina. Actually to put a price on Knowledge is an insult.
Yes there are many Gurus who travel to impart knowledge to masses but to make big institutes and then spend all the energy to maintain the same, somewhere along the line the real spiritual purpose goes out of the window.

Anyone who asks for huge money upfront i would just shy away.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vannakkam GP et al: I was calculating in my head expenses ... necessary expenses, say of a 20 day tour to the US of a swami. I give him the necessity of having one companion monk.

Daily expenses ...

Travel from India twice 1500 is 3000 over 20 is $150
travel within US (car and gas, some flights) ... $150
food budget ... $100
accommodation ... another $150
hall or room rental ... $100
other organising, like posters beforehand etc. just to be kind $100

This is being generous all around. My wife and I spent about $150 per day on our last trip for 2 weeks across America and home.

That's $750 daily. Seems to me that at $400, he'd break even if only 2 people came to each 'darshan'.

So yes, there are expenses, especially if travel is involved, but not at all to that point. I don't really like it either when people want everything for 'free'.
I think its useful to be realistic. The old system of dakshina worked out fine for centuries.

Aum Namasivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam EM and all


Vannakkam GP et al: I was calculating in my head expenses ... necessary expenses, say of a 20 day tour to the US of a swami. I give him the necessity of having one companion monk.

Daily expenses ...

Travel from India twice 1500 is 3000 over 20 is $150
travel within US (car and gas, some flights) ... $150
food budget ... $100
accommodation ... another $150
hall or room rental ... $100
other organising, like posters beforehand etc. just to be kind $100

This is being generous all around. My wife and I spent about $150 per day on our last trip for 2 weeks across America and home.

That's $750 daily. Seems to me that at $400, he'd break even if only 2 people came to each 'darshan'.

So yes, there are expenses, especially if travel is involved, but not at all to that point. I don't really like it either when people want everything for 'free'.
I think its useful to be realistic. The old system of dakshina worked out fine for centuries.

Aum Namasivaya



I have long realised there is nothing for free in life, call me old fashion i am for what worked for centuries, when you depart from it, so does the teachings, one can not put any price on knowledge, it is priceless pardon me for repeating it. expense are involved that is for sure but most have sponsors all paid for, cars waiting, there are gullible people who want quick fix and there are cheats who would do anything for money and fame both deserve each other, we get what we deserve in the end

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

I have long realised there is nothing for free in life, call me old fashion

Vannakkam GP: I'm old fashioned too. The term 'freeloader' must have come from this. My father had no respect for them. All we ask is for those who can, to pull their own weight. Society should take care of the 2 - 5 % of those who honestly can't.

Methinks we're a tad off topic now.

:)

Aum Namasivaya