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yajvan
31 December 2006, 11:15 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~~

Namaste ,
Very often I hear of 'all the gods' of Sanatana Dharma - some quote 33,000 some 3,300. That is quite a lot of gods to pray to don't you think?

My orientation is simple - vishvam ekam charat patatri vishunam vi jatam (RK Ved 3.54.8) in simple terms says The All One has become what moves, what flies, all that is manifold. All the worlds are set within the navel of the One without birth - RV 10.114.5 And we know from the Bhagavad Gita that all 'this' stems from One, Krsna. Yet this 3,300 comes up again. Even in Jyotish knowledge , there's 33 devata that are recognized in this body of knowledge.

If you have interest in this, please read on , and please share your their teachings/knowledge on this, please bring this to the forum as you see fit.
Let me outline the thngs I know from my readings… I look to the brillance of the sage Yajnavalkya for insights, Then I will outline the 33 devata found in Jyotish if there is interest.
Yajyavalkya Kanda
If we look in the Sakalya Brahmana ( Part of the Yajyavalkya Kanda) there is a questioning ( more of an interrogation) of Yajnavalkya muni. This was in the court of king Janaka, wishing to find out the most learned brahman of Kuru and Panchala, that he had assembled.

King Janaka says 'he who is throughly proficient in the veda's amoung you may take these cows' - that is the king offered 1,000 cows, each having gold, 1/3 ounce or one pada in those days, carried on their horns. Cows alone in the ved is signifincant as they represent luminosity, fullness of consciousness, let alone gold as purity.
So, without hesitancy the sage Yajnavalkya tells his sisya to herd the cows together and take them home, end of discussion. The other brahmana's took issue with this action, and so begins this kanda of questioning this great sage.
The son of Sakalya (Vidagdha) asks how many god's (deva') are there ? Yajnavalkya answers as many that are mentioned in the nivid of world deva 3,306. There are a set of hymm's called the nivid ( which I have little knowledge of) that states there's 3,306 devas). "Yes",said Sakalya,(father of Vidagdha), concurring the number, and took over the questioning. 'How many gods are there indeed, O Yajnavalkya' . Sage Yajnavalkya responds '33'. This questioning continues in this manner ; 'how many?' , '6' replys Yajnavalkya. Again how many? '3', how many ? '2' how many ? '1 1/2' … 'How many ?' questions Sakalya, and Yajyavalkya says '1'.
The sage boils them all down to Tad Ekam,the others are an expression of the One, as if that questioning was not enough, The brahman Sakala then asks Yajyavalkya, 'Which are these three and three hundred and three and three thousand?' …or who are they? I will let you read the repsonses yourself, yet the 33 devata in number are recognized in Jyotish. They are:
8 Vasu's
11 Rudra's
12 Aditya's
1 Indra
1 Prajapati
33 in total

This is also called out in the Narayana Upanishad ( Sathapatha Brahmana 14.16) and points to Narayana as the fountainhead of all these devata. Lets take a look at these devata:
8 Vasu's


Agni - fire, the physical view, yet Divine will, vak and speech are key; key pitta ingredent and Mar's influence; agni's is rooted in ang - strong and luminious movement.
Prithvi - earth or matter , smell tattva; the material universe ( us too ) Mercury is key graha
Vayu - air principle, or gas state, yet prana - vatta , Sani or Saturn is key
Aantariksa - known as intermedite space 'antara' or middle,between - Associated with Aksaha, hense Jupiter
Aditya - some say sun, yet the 12 rasi's on ones chart, as it is owned by Adtiya and Mother of all as she owns the 12 houses/rasi's
Dyaus- which is considered the reoccuring dawn yet in the Veda we see this as Ushas. Some say heaven. This is associated with ones lagna ( lug-na) or ascendent. As ushas is a precurser to the dawn ( a symbol for our awakening), Surya is a key influencer and graha.
Chandrama or moon - the mind, emotions, realtionships.
Nakshatra - 27 lunar mansions the moon travels during the month The 8 are a function of Vasudeva that make up this creation.

The 11 Rudra's (ekadasa rudra)
It's said there are 11 in one's chart… they are the 8th house from every other house in one's chart less the one that houses Brihaspiti ( Jupiter). They are responsible for holding the life force (prana) within the body of the native.
When this life force leaves, then we pass on, and people weep, and hense we had 'rud' to weep , some say howl.
We also see this in the veda as rudra and associated with red, blood, etc.
Now, the 11th Rudra within one's chart is Maheshvara , and is responsible for seperating the atma from the mana or the mind. This Rudra, this Maheshvara plays a key role. In the Bhagavad gita, Sri Krsna says ' Of all the Rudra's I am Sankara' ( BG 10.23). We know of this Sankara as Lord Siva, ( Om Nama Sivaya!), the asupicious.

The 12 Aditya's (dvadasadityah)
Some say the 12 Sun's - as the 360 degree travel around the zodiac. The Sun travels through the solar signs for each month (masa) of the year (samvatsara). This travel provides time and space. This provides that total life experince we hve on this earth, traced back to the Sun (Aditya).

Indra
Indra rules swar-loka and in the veda is Divine Mind, in us. He's the king of the devata, as the atmakaraka ( see Jyotish posts part 1, 2 and 3 on Atmakaraka) is in one's janma kundali ( birth chart).

Prajapiti
Father of all living beings, Ultimately Brahma, the creator. In one's chart this is the lagna.


Mangalam Bhagawaan Vishnu
Mangalam Garuda Dhwaja
Mangalam Pundari Kaaksha
Mangalaaya Tanno Hari

Pranams, and Happy New Year

Varoon Arya
02 January 2007, 03:55 AM
Namaste Yajvan Ji,

I thought perhaps the following quote from the Shatapatha Brahmana would add some equally useful material to the discussion:



"He verily said: ‘These are their majestic powers that are the 33 Devas’.

Who are these 33 Devas?

(They are) 8 Vasus, 11 Rudras and 12 Aadityas. Thus (numbering) 31. (By adding to them) Indra and Prajaapati, they become 33.

What are the Vasus?

Agni (fire), Earth, Wind, Antariksha (the space between the earth and heaven), Aaditya (the Sun), Dyaus (i.e. celestial region), Candramas (the Moon) and Nakshatras (stars). These are called “Vasus”, as (this everything) (i.e. the entire creation) is well placed in them. They are the abodes of every thing. They are called “Vasus” because they are the dwelling places (from vas-, to reside) of all things.

What are the Rudras?

The 10 Praanas (vital airs) in the human body and Aatman as the 11th. They make (a man) weep when they leave this body. They are so called as they cause us to weep (from rud- to weep).

What are the 12 Aadityas?

They are 12 months in a year because they take everything away. The word Aaditya is from the root daa- with the prefix aa-, thus ‘to take away’.

What is Indra and what is Prajaapati?

Stanayitnu (i.e. the thundering cloud) is Indra and Yajña is Prajaapati.

What is Stanayitnu?

It is Ashani (i.e. the thunderbolt).

What is Yajña?

It is Pashus.

What are the 3 Devas?

They are the 3 regions (lokas). All the Devas reside in them.

What are the 2 Devas?

They are Anna (i.e. food) and Praanas (i.e. vital airs).

What is Adhyardha?

It is 'the purifier'. Thus it is said. This air alone is purified.

Why is it called Adhyardha?

Because it spreads throughout the world.

Who is the One Deva?

It is Brahman (i.e. the Omnipresent God). Thus is it said."

(Shatapatha Brahmana XIV.5)

Agnideva
02 January 2007, 04:12 PM
8 Vasu's
11 Rudra's
12 Aditya's
1 Indra
1 Prajapati
33 in total

Namaste All,

It is often said there are 33 devas in the Veda as mentioned above. But, in reality, there appear to be many more. I understand how 33 gets inflated later to 3,300 or 33,000 or 330,000,000 or something like that. Why are the Ashvins and the Maruts, for example, not included in the above list? Just curious ...

Regards,
A.

Znanna
02 January 2007, 05:38 PM
Namaste All,

It is often said there are 33 devas in the Veda as mentioned above. But, in reality, there appear to be many more. I understand how 33 gets inflated later to 3,300 or 33,000 or 330,000,000 or something like that. Why are the Ashvins and the Maruts, for example, not included in the above list? Just curious ...

Regards,
A.



Namaste,

When the multiple aspects of DEVI are taken into consideration, 330 million in numbering seems very few to me!

YMMV :)


ZN

Agnideva
03 January 2007, 07:46 AM
Namaste,

When the multiple aspects of DEVI are taken into consideration, 330 million in numbering seems very few to me!

YMMV :)
Namaste Znanna,

Hehe ... I know what you mean :). Can we really put a number on the aspects of Devi?

Regards,
A.

sm78
03 January 2007, 08:41 AM
Namaste Znanna,

Hehe ... I know what you mean :). Can we really put a number on the aspects of Devi?

Regards,
A.

Some say there are 8 ;)
Forms are infinite, but the 8 are fabric of the creation.

I don't have any view on these things.

yajvan
03 January 2007, 09:28 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~~


Why are the Ashvins and the Maruts, for example, not included in the above list? Just curious ... Regards,

Namaste Agnideva,
good question, that I do not have a firm/justified answer. Yet as I understand it, the 33 devata listed form the raw materials for all that is.

I would have elected other devata too, to the list, yet that clearly suggests my insights and knowledge is still flawed. Where would be the 4 kumara's ( from the divine mind of Brahama's thoughts?)

That said, let me add the following:
The astau vasavah ( 8 vasu's) are the ingredients that define all of creation, from the most subtle to the massive and inert.
Perhaps when we look to the other devata you mention , the muruts, etc. they are part of the 33 with just a different form.

The Ekadasa rudra provide the binding of prana, and then its destruction.
So we have creative principle ( Brahma), Destructive principle, Rudra, some say Mahesvara or Siva. Where is the sustain principle ? With Aditya or the 12 adityas found within time and space. Sustaning is owned by Sri Vshnu.

The 'management team' is governed by Indra for all the devata. Some say Brhamanaspati. And the creative spark - owned by Prajapati.
Yet , all work for the ultimate, Narayana (eko vi narayana asin)

This is the Jyotish orientation - how so? the principles allow Jyotish to view two things; Phalita Jyotisha or the sustenance and results of karmas and Ayur Jyotisha, or longevity determination.

Final thought ( any why I do not consider myself an accomplished Jyotishi or even close). When we look to this great science , it has six limbs or anga's as outlined by Harihara:
Jataka - natal or janma kundali, looking to the karmas of past , present, and in some cases future actions, results/friuts and penalties.
Gola - astronomy as we know it - the 'music of the spheres'
Nimitta - Omens and the like
Prasna - forecasts/predictions based upon charts erected at the time of questioning, incidents, etc.
Muhurta - timing of events - 'best time to ....'
Ganita - movement/calculations , planet positions within the heavens.

All of the disciplines above, the accomplished jyotishi is viewing the play-display of the 33 devata.

This amount of knowledge to be learned, infused, etc. is a life long task. That does not suggest one cannot accomplish this, yet for me, to be at this level of confidence and competence, and apply it for the good of the native, I choose to go the enlightened route and capture the home of all this knowledge, Ritam. Then all this is part of ones being.

Perhaps one can apprecaite why Jyotish is considered the eyes of the ved.

atanu
05 January 2007, 11:04 AM
Namaste Yajvan Ji,

I thought perhaps the following quote from the Shatapatha Brahmana would add some equally useful material to the discussion:
It is 'the purifier'. Thus it is said. This air alone is purified.

Why is it called Adhyardha?

Because it spreads throughout the world.

Who is the One Deva?

It is Brahman (i.e. the Omnipresent God). Thus is it said."

(Shatapatha Brahmana XIV.5)



Pranam,

"-----What is that ONE?

It is the ONE who breathes -----." (The exact word is Pavate)

Without the Atma existing nothing whatsoever exists.

Ayamatmabrahma

Om.

atanu
06 January 2007, 08:15 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~~


------
The Ekadasa rudra provide the binding of prana, and then its destruction.
So we have creative principle ( Brahma), Destructive principle, Rudra, some say Mahesvara or Siva. Where is the sustain principle ? With Aditya or the 12 adityas found within time and space. Sustaning is owned by Sri Vshnu.
-----


Namaskar Yajvan Ji,

RV Book 1 LXIV. Maruts.

1. BRING for the manly host, wise and majestical, O Nodhas, for the Maruts bring thou a pure gift.
I deck my songs as one deft-handed, wise in mind prepares the water that hath power in solemn rites.
2 They spring to birth, the lofty Ones, the Bulls of Heaven, divine, the youths of Rudra, free from spot and stain;
The purifiers, shining brightly even as suns, awful of form like giants, scattering rain-drops down.
3 Young Rudras, demon-slayers, never growing old, they have waxed, even as mountains, irresistible.
They make all beings tremble with their mighty strength, even the very strongest, both of earth and heaven.


The Maruts and Rudras are the progeny of Rudra alone. And the kalakuta consumption is the supreme act of sustenance, isn't it?

Then Bhagavatam has this to say:

O lord Girisha, you are self-effulgent and supreme. You create this material world by your personal energy, and you assume the names Brahma, Visnu and Mahesvara when you act in creation, maintenance and annihilation.


The point, however, is that one who is Shiva is Vishnu surely and one who is Vishnu is Shiva surely, since:

“Yajur Veda iv. 4. 8.

(Thou “I” art) all overcoming through Agni; self-ruling through the sun; lord of strength through might; creator with the bull; bountiful through the sacrifice; ------unassailable through penance; the sun with bodies.”
YV iv. 4. 9.(Thou art) Prajapati in mind, when Soma plays; the creator in the consecration; Savitr in the bearing; Pusan in the cow for the purchase of the Soma; Varuna when bound (in the cloth); Asura in the being bought; Mitra when purchased; Çipivista when put in place; delighter of men when being drawn forward; the overlord on arrival; Prajapati being led on; Agni at the Agnidh’s altar; Brhaspati on being led from the Agnidh’s altar; Indra at the oblation-holder; Aditi when put in place; Visnu when being taken down; Atharvan when made wet; Yama when pressed out; drinker of unpurified (Soma) when being cleansed; Vayu when purifying; Mitra as mixed with milk; the Manthin when mixed with groats; that of the All-gods when taken out; Rudra when offered; Vayu when covered up; the gazer on men when revealed; the food when it comes; the famed of the fathers; life when taken; the river when going to the final bath; the ocean when gone; the water when dipped; the heaven when arrived at completion.

YV iv. 4. 9.
(Thou art) Prajapati --Pusan --- Varuna ---Asura --- Mitra --- Çipivista ---Agni -- Brhaspati ---Indra ---Aditi --- Visnu when being taken down; -- Atharvan ---Yama --- Vayu ---Mitra as ----Rudra when offered; ---

the gazer on men when revealed; ------ The Supreme Seer.

Else, this becomes effective:

7.018.18 Your numerous enemies, Indra, have been reduced to subjection, effect at some time or other the subjugation of the turbulent Bheda, who holds men praising you as guilty of wickedness; hurl, Indra, your sharp thuderbolt against him.


Slay the ignorance called Bheda O, Lord.


A note: Since scriptures say that the Atma is advaita and that one has to know that, then one should be able to reason that to know advaita one cannot be a second.

If one remains a second, there is no advaita --- the Atma is not seen/known.

One who is Shiva is Vishnu surely and one who is Vishnu is Shiva surely. Else Atma goes missing (under ignorance).

Om

yajvan
14 January 2007, 01:48 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,
When the multiple aspects of DEVI are taken into consideration, 330 million in numbering seems very few to me! ZN

Namaste ZN,
When we look to the devata, there are some thoughts on the
hierarchy, this is where the 33 come from.
But as you say 330 million makes sense when one looks to every-thing coming from the grace of Devi, yes? That means every sub-atomic particle, every neuron, proton, atom, molicule, is an expression of the Divine. Hense , every object in this 'field' as some call it , is an expression of the divine.

One quote from Swami Krishnanda says " every-thing is all things, and anything is everywhere." What does he see that we do not? That everything is an expression of the Divine, that all this is consciousness, that expresses ITself in any way it chooses... to the enlightened, this is the unity they view and exprience. All 'parts' are div or lights, vishphulinga or sparks, of the divine.

pranams,

Agnideva
15 January 2007, 12:12 AM
Some say there are 8 ;)
Forms are infinite, but the 8 are fabric of the creation.
Singhi, can you elaborate on this? What are the 8?

Shakti
15 January 2007, 01:26 PM
The Rig Veda says that Truth is one but is called by many names. God's different energies are represented by the Deities. God has many different roles but he/she is only one. For eg. one man can be called father, brother, friend etc.

Znanna
15 January 2007, 02:12 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste ZN,
When we look to the devata, there are some thoughts on the
hierarchy, this is where the 33 come from.
But as you say 330 million makes sense when one looks to every-thing coming from the grace of Devi, yes? That means every sub-atomic particle, every neuron, proton, atom, molicule, is an expression of the Divine. Hense , every object in this 'field' as some call it , is an expression of the divine.

One quote from Swami Krishnanda says " every-thing is all things, and anything is everywhere." What does he see that we do not? That everything is an expression of the Divine, that all this is consciousness, that expresses ITself in any way it chooses... to the enlightened, this is the unity they view and exprience. All 'parts' are div or lights, vishphulinga or sparks, of the divine.

pranams,






Namaste, yajvan,

Yes, thank you for so eloquently speaking to my meaning.

There is a word I've come across in my nascent study of sanskrit, which seems to mean alternatively "many" "a whole lot" up to "billions and billions", but it escapes me. Something like 'moot'?

The notion of many=ONE has an infinite number of permutations, truly, and this still is just another reflection of the Holy. (YMMV)


ZN

yajvan
15 January 2007, 08:38 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste, yajvan,
The notion of many=ONE has an infinite number of permutations, truly, and this still is just another reflection of the Holy. (YMMV)ZN

Namaste ZN,
Many=One is also the principle of Uni-verse - Unity (one) in the mist of
di-verse-itry (the many).
So, the brillince of this word shines though as a spiritual concept.
Don't tell the scientists, they will change the word!!!

atanu
17 January 2007, 11:07 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste ZN,
Many=One is also the principle of Uni-verse - Unity (one) in the mist of
di-verse-itry (the many).
So, the brillince of this word shines though as a spiritual concept.
Don't tell the scientists, they will change the word!!!


Namaskar,

Ya. What's the word?

Eko Turiya sits as Isha sarvesvara, they are not different. Eko Turiya sits as Taijjasa, they are not different. The beings in Taijasa are from That. Eko Turiya sits as Agnivaisanaro, they are not different. And the beings of Agnivaisvanaro are from That.


------
10 Aditi is the heaven, Aditi is mid-air, Aditi is the Mother and the Sire and Son.
Aditi is all Gods, Aditi five-classed men, Aditi all that hath been born and shall be born.

Mata Durge Sharanam Namah