View Full Version : Quantum Mechanics

The Occult
26 September 2011, 06:44 AM
I saw an interesting video from BBC on What is reality, a documentary which tries to put different scientific perspectives likes Quantum physics inorder to explain What is reality


During this program, they talk about the double slit experiment of light particle being subjected to travel through a double slit.They observed that a particle can be at two places at the same time

Is there anywhere in our scriptures that talk about a thing can be a two places at the same point of time?

26 September 2011, 06:46 AM
Is there anywhere in our scriptures that talk about a thing can be a two places at the same point of time?


God himself is not only at TWO places at the same point in time...but he is EVERYWHERE! No?

Bhakta Prahlad told his father Hiranyakashupu..."God is there in the smallest specks of dust as also in the largest of pillars!"

But seriously, it will be difficult to try to fit every scientific theory exactly back to the Vedas. The scriptures are not scientific treatises, you know.

Edited to Add: I am sure if a particle can have a speed faster than that of light, all believers of all types [Hindus, Christians, Muslims, etc.] will try to find that within their holy books. If 3 * 10^8 m/s IS the fastest a thing can travel at, the same folks will try and retrofit some OTHER verse from their scripture to suit it.

The Occult
26 September 2011, 07:02 AM
Quite true, on the other hand, if there is something that can travel faster than lighter it can go back in time!!!!

26 September 2011, 09:59 AM
Namaste Occult,

I saw an interesting video from BBC on What is reality, a documentary which tries to put different scientific perspectives likes Quantum physics inorder to explain What is reality


During this program, they talk about the double slit experiment of light particle being subjected to travel through a double slit.They observed that a particle can be at two places at the same time

Is there anywhere in our scriptures that talk about a thing can be a two places at the same point of time?

I didn't have time to see the video and my comments are purely on the basis of what you have asked. Let's analyse the example and inference drawn from it a little further :

1. If a particle is really one, how can it be at two different places ? This can "happen" only when the two points are actually only one point. That means, the perception of distance/separation is nothing but an illusion.

2. If particle is perceived at two different places simultaneously, that would also mean that one particle can give a perception of being more than one. That means, the true nature of the particle has inherent nature of creating an illusion of multitude.

3. The above two inferences leads us to draw conclusion that if one particle can be perceived at two different places ... it can also be seen at more than two places if the experiment is slightly different ... that concludes that it can be present simultaneously at all points under experiment. Therefore, One reality alone is what is perceived at all different points.

This is what ADVAITA VEDANTA says. :)


26 September 2011, 10:48 AM
hariḥ oṁ


1. If a particle is really one, how can it be at two different places ?. :)

Light functions as both a particle and a wave, depending on how the experiment is conducted and when observations are made. People with more knowledge may wish to comment.


The Occult
26 September 2011, 10:56 AM
Light function both as particle or wave but cannot be both at the same time but here, when there is no measurement device(here its a detector)it acts as both while when there is measurement device, there is just particle behavior

26 September 2011, 01:12 PM
Namasté All

Very nice observation Devotee, an interesting take on perspective.

Waves and particles, light may be both or neither. These are models in our minds eye to help us perceive the non-perceivable. Same as DNA which incidentally depends on the very model we are discussing for its structure (another fictitious mathematical form, which incidentally happens to mimics the reality that it was drawn from; we can say that the model already exists in a multitude of forms that we just had to see one that works and speak it).

Light was assumed to be a wave by Newton, who observed that white light could be split into its coloured composites by the use of a prism and the wisdom that; light of differing wave lengths, would refract (bending on entry and exit) at a different angle dependant on the wavelength.

Now the theory of the electro magnetic spectrum says that light must be a particle, or a packet of energy.

Now things start to become interesting if you make a laser, lasers are light of a very specific wavelength (thus the colour) bounced back and forth between mirrors in a sort of "dressing" tunnel which makes them come out of the end in a straight line rather than scattered, as with a bulb. or a more omni directional light source. It is this which makes a lasers spot stay so small over a distance. Now by tuning down the laser progressively we can see that the power, which is related to the wavelength can not drop, if it did the laser would change colour. so for the light intensity to drop less light must be sent, this happens in packets, like packets of water still containing the wave motion of the sea.
So if we examine the light it eventually starts to flash, but remains the same wave length. by putting a photographic plate in front of the laser, if for example it has been reduced to one flash per second and we leave the plate for 5 seconds there are 5 dots on the plate, each having travelled separately between the laser and the plate. now with one small slit in a card in between the two objects we get the stripe with a penumbrae. If two are cut we get the multi striped wave effect; Highs + highs, make super highs; lows + highs, cancel; low + lows, make super lows.

The curiosity being that when left flashing, with the laser emitting one electron (so our model says) at a time the interference happens as if all electrons travelled at once. The drops of water maintain the exact same wave pattern as the sea relating to its physical surroundings (the slits). How does one single electron know whether it is to behave as if there are one or two slits?

It has been said that cats can see a single electron from a laser, we of course cannot perceive such a small quantity of light, with our relatively crude eyes.

The more that we know of the precise position of the electron the less we know of the wave function (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function#One_spin-.C2.BD_particle.2C_ignoring_spatial_degrees_of_freedom). The wave function being the part that makes the interference pattern in the quantum slit experiment described above.

Extra dimensions is one of the current possible explanations for this.

It is also worth noting that time is said to stop when we travel at light speed.

Another interesting thing about electrons is their spin.

Two electrons may be linked through space over distance as an electron pair; when they are separated from an atom together; both have a measurable value that we call "spin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_%28physics%29)" which for an electron is either +1/2 or -1/2. Imagine the little ball spinning. This value is decided for neither until it is observed in one, at which time it becomes fixed in the other.

If we separate an electron pair leaving one on Earth and we send the other to the Moon. If the one on earth becomes +1/2 on being observed, the other becomes -1/2 instantly. The strange thing is that if you observe one that has already been observed you can tell that it has already been looked at. So you know instantly that the electron on the moon has been observed. It is as if they start spinning when touched.

Our entire Chemistry model and also that of DNA is dependant on electrons being the glue that holds things to together, makes them fit.
It is interesting to note that most chemists and biologists are ignorant of these concepts; believing that it is the domain of Physicists!

Fascinating and very strange!

I am no expert on this; just fascinated by it. So please take lightly.

Did you know that the chemical base of DNA is phosphorus? that's right, light emitting!!! :)



The Occult
26 September 2011, 02:00 PM
Whether chemists and biologists like it or not,everything boils down to physics.All the processes,interactions of neurons,chemical reactions are all caused by interaction of atoms,electrons,and subatomic particles and if there is anything that involves physical interactions, we will have physics into it.On a macroscopic level, you may be talking about different fields such a physics chemistry,biology,computer science but deep down they are all physical processes in different scales.So if they think whatever that is said in physics doesnt hold good for their domain,they are very ignorant and even dogmatic.

While physicists are slowly moving close to metaphysicsts, we have chemists and biologists being hardcore materialists

26 September 2011, 02:41 PM
This is a very interesting topic and one of the best books I've read on this is "Mysticism and the New Physics" by Michael Talbot. Fritjof Capra's "The Tao of Physics" is also an excellent read. Amit Goswami's "The Self Aware Universe" is supposed to be a good read as well; I haven't read it yet.

As far as the Vedas containing the same principles, I tend to agree with Wundermonk's assertion; in retrospect, everything seems to be "there" (because we want it to be so). Of course, the fundamental difference is that the rSIs of India were actually able to experience these principles; being at several places at once, traveling very large distances in extremely short times (through consciousness), and other seemingly miraculous things.

The only "issue" with that is that it's not replicable or repeatable in a "lab". Those experiences arise from transcending the material plane, not by running in faster and faster circles in it (particle collider anyone? ;))!

This vertical knowledge is what is called pratyakSA or direct perception. Patanjali's Yoga Sutras contain some fascinating information about these physics-defying practices.

One of the interesting parallels in Vedanta to QM is the nAda/bindu duality which refers to consciousness but in QM, it's wave/particle duality.

My thoughts are that creation and all matter is just "bunched up" consciousness that gives rise to the illusion of separation. In actuality, the "null-field" is just 'twisted' or 'bunched up' to form the matter/anti-matter pair and results in distinct particles and apparent boundaries.

The rSIs of India were able to PERCEIVE this reality through experience while the modern scientists, especially physicists, are trying to explain it in an objective language (mathematics). However, the key distinction is that scientists will always be operating on this plane of material existence and thus cannot pierce the thick veil of illusion (Maya) but the rSIs, through intense penance, were able to pierce that barrier like a rock through water.

26 September 2011, 02:44 PM
Namasté The Occult

Quite right, there is a world of difference between, memorising something and knowing it. As the tree grows, I think that we forget in what it is based. prANa and not prakRti.



26 September 2011, 03:01 PM
...everything seems to be "there" (because we want it to be so).

That's very close to the anthropic principle... "observations of the physical universe must be compatible with the conscious life that observes it."

Just an "observation". :D

26 September 2011, 03:16 PM
Namasté Toutchedbythelord,

Interesting point!

I have heard talk of a siddhi that be obtained by seeing ones own greatness reflected back upon everything, the native knows not doubt. knowing the conclusion of every conversation before it has even been uttered. This creates in them the desire to stir trouble, as their own greatness makes conversation with the minions very wearisome, normal talk is no longer "energising".

The trouble being that this is not a pretty sight to behold, transforming both the physical body and actions of the jiva. accentuating; to become rage and anger sometimes even violence.




26 September 2011, 11:17 PM
Thanks Mana and TTA for your informative and interesting posts ! :)

Just think of it ! How sure the Rishis (& think of their courage !!) must be when they declared Non-duality of the Reality ... they had no labs, no instruments ... thousands of years back when Man was still struggling with explanations to trivial Natural phenomena which are known to even the children today !

This conviction must have come from Direct Perception .... which leaves no room for any doubt. :)


The Occult
26 September 2011, 11:36 PM
Also, there is the measurement problem in Quantum Mechanics .The Shrodinger cat paradox

A cat, along with a flask containing a poison and a radioactive source, is placed in a sealed box shielded against environmentally induced quantum decoherence. If an internal Geiger counter detects radiation, the flask is shattered, releasing the poison that kills the cat. The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics implies that after a while, the cat is simultaneously alive and dead. Yet, when we look in the box, we see the cat either alive or dead, not both alive and dead.

So the effect of a conscious observer has an effect on the object.This is where the concept of parallel universes come into place.So the theory is that in this universe, if the cat is dead,then in another universe,the cat might be alive.

Quantum mechanics throws open a lot of possibilities

20 April 2016, 07:19 PM
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