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charitra
27 September 2011, 07:48 AM
Namaste all. This is no mean attempt to take a swipe at an abrahamic faith (all sorts of abuse happens all the time all over the planet). What shocked me most was that all this abuse was happening right inside the 4 walls of a place of worship. Gut wrenching indeed.

VATICAN CITY — A new report by the Irish branch of Amnesty International says the sexual abuse of children by Ireland’s Roman Catholic priests “included acts that amounted to torture and inhuman and degrading treatment.”

The 430-page report, released Monday (Sept. 26), “reminds us that Irish children were subjected to treatment that would be horrifying if it were done to prisoners of war, never mind little boys and girls,” said Ireland’s Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Frances Fitzgerald, in Dublin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/on-faith/amnesty-international-slams-irish-catholic-church-on-abuse/2011/09/26/gIQA2AihzK_story.html

Mana
27 September 2011, 08:41 AM
Namasté charitra,

I am speechless ...

But thank you for highlighting this.

praNAma

mana

PatrickMB
27 September 2011, 08:46 AM
I wish I could say that I am surprised by this--I am shocked. I am a cultural Catholic and Catholic Bishops live in a world where it is against Church teaching to question them, let alone say "No" to them. When someone or some group is accountable to no one, and it's "God's will", this sort of thing happens. May the Lord help these innocent victims.

Jainarayan
27 September 2011, 08:55 AM
This really should come as no surprise, disgusting as it is. The sexual abuse cases that rocked the RCC took place within rectories, schools and convents (nuns are not above reproach). The church has always been a haven and refuge for perverts and hypocrites. Nuns I knew when going to Sunday school were some of the nastiest people one could ever encounter.

It's not only the RCC; the EOC has had its share of scandals. During an election for a ruling bishop of the Greek Orthodox Church, photos were allegedly circulated showing one of the candidates in compromising situations with another male clergy member. Another long-standing archbishop of the Orthodox Church in America was quietly removed under the cloud of suspicion of sexual impropriety.

And let us note that bishops of the EOC, and nuns and priests of the RCC must be unmarried (EO priests can be married).

sm78
27 September 2011, 10:03 AM
I never understand the Irish - why are they so much pre-occupied with this absurd faith. The rest of europe has kind of moved on. Yes, christianity remains the main religion, but its impact on day-to-day life, thoughts and culture are close to null.

shantiseeker
01 October 2011, 08:02 PM
As an American, alas, the RC sex abuse scandals are nothing new. Been years since they first came to light in the US, but every so often, I still will see some news article reference to it, like the former Archbishop knew something was up when Father so and so was transferred to another parish, or some iteration.
Women were murdered who were thought to be witches, I think like in the 1400's. (someone might want to double-check the specifics, but it's in there somewhere). Yes, RC a lovely history. And the one I was "officially" born into, but not raised in, thus not indoctrinated in. I would have likely walked away from it anyway.

sunyata07
02 October 2011, 04:22 AM
Namaste,

Not even thirty years ago a lot of the primary and secondary schools were run by religious orders. You don't realise the power the Church once had over these institutions. It was the way things were back then. Priests and nuns were effectively teachers with a little training, and religion went hand-in-hand with your education. Thank God things have become a lot more secular since then, but you'll see a lot of schools over here are still very much based in and around a parish with the name of the convent/monastery still attached to the school. Even in my last secondary school, we had nuns as teachers.

My dad still talks about his school days from time to time. He doesn't seem to have very many fond memories of the place, but I hear some stories and they fill me with dread. One of his most-feared teachers - a brother from a religious order - used to have a bit of sadistic streak in him, and looked for any reason to beat his students regularly. This film is an accurate portrayal of what children had to experience in schools, if anyone is ever interested: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0339707/.

I'm so grateful that I was born after those dark times, yet it grieves me to think there are still people out there who are suffering from the abuses at the hands of people who were supposed to be teachers, caretakers, spiritual guides - people who you could trust. This is the power of karma - its effects can last for years, even a whole lifetime. And there are many cases of such abuse. Much more than what we all believed a few years ago. The Murphy Report released just the year before really made people wake up to the reality of what was going on not just fifty years ago, but as recently as 2004. For those interested, here's the link: http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Part%202.pdf/Files/Part%202.pdf (http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Part%202.pdf/Files/Part%202.pdf). The craziest thing of all is that many of these guilty clerics who sexually and physically abused so many children were given a metaphorical "slap on the wrist" and just moved on to another parish. Those who caused big enough scandal were simply sent by their bishops to the missionaries in Africa (sadly, perhaps onto a fresh batch of vulnerable children and people). The RCC really lived by that saying "out of sight, out of mind". And the people around them just seemed to turn a blind eye to the things that were going on.

And the abuse in schools are only just the tip of the iceberg. It would make you shudder to think what went on in the Magdalene launderies in this country. These were asylums run by Catholic nuns for women who had disgraced themselves by either by having disreputable characters or having become pregnant outside of wedlock. Women who were raped (unbelieveably, women were blamed going on the logic for having "asked for it") or who were just considered too pretty or "enticing" were locked up in there too. I believe there were establishments in England, Canada and a number of other places but in true Irish fashion we only shut down the the last Magdelene asylum in 1996!

SM78, yes - the collective samskaras of this country's obsession with Catholicism are embedded deep in the Irish psyche. The people on this island are a naturally religious, if not pious, people. It's just a pity it happened to be Catholicism they followed. It will probably take decades to subside, but I'm happy to report that it is gradually eroding. People have people greatly disillusioned with the Catholic Church. Their deceit, cowardice, and megalomania have finally come to the awareness of many people. I really hope it marks a change in the consciousness of all Catholics in the future.

I could go on and on about this topic, but I really don't want to let my mind wallow too much on this evil. It is finally being exposed to the light now. Satya again is triumphant. May God watch over all those who suffered from such abuses.

Om namah Shivaya

Friend from the West
02 October 2011, 01:27 PM
Namaste,
In 1987 to 1989, I worked in a prison that was part a protective custody facility (judges, law enforcement, and other high profile folks who needed protected) and part for sex offenders, who of these probably 90% were pedophiles. Some of these were priests but quite a few were protestant ministers. In the early 1990s, the state of Oregon did a study that found for each conviction for a sex offender they had committed 500 (!) offenses for which they were not convicted. Putting these two things together is so mindboggling.
Just so sad that trusting people from an uptight tradition that manifests itself in different behaviors not only were harmed but more importantly, their young ones entrusted to them who did not have a vote were so very much hurt, both physically and mentally.
To carry forth with the bad news is studies of young victims demonstrate this is a crime that continues to victimize the victim. Many times these crimes (no surpise to followers of Sanatana Dharma) have generational impacts.
As Sunyata said, "May God watch over all those who suffered from such abuses."

sunyata07
02 October 2011, 02:38 PM
Namaste FFTW,

Interesting thing I learned from a neighbour of mine a while back. As recently as one or two generations ago, sons from respectable, educated middle-class families were "assigned" and groomed for professions by their parents. Some were made the doctor of the family. Others were made the solicitor/lawyer. The last was usually made the priest. It was effectively a life of unrequested celibacy.

While I have no doubt there are cases of sexual abuse from all religious traditions, it has to be said there is a great disproportion coming from the RC side. I believe this greatly owes to the tradition that Catholic priests are not allowed to marry and therefore engage in conjugal relations. The religions of the West always had (and still do to this day) an unhealthy attitude towards sex. The backlash to this puritanical enforcement of views on the people was the "sexual revolution" of the 60s and onward, evident even today in the rampant promiscuity of the Western culture where it's completely normal to engage in extramarital relations, affairs and pornography. So you see the harm in having these extremes.

Priests may be servants of God, but they are human all the same. I can understand how the denial of one of man's most basic needs could twist and distort into something as perverted as paedophilia and other sexual perversions. This does not mean to say it justifies it, but I think I can imagine the origin of it all lies in the RC's stance on priests and marriage. I'm not saying Protestants don't have the same problems, but if you compare the cases of sexual abuse with the Church of England to the Catholic Church, I think you'll see the figures speak for themselves.

Om namah Shivaya

Ramakrishna
02 October 2011, 10:52 PM
Namaste all,

The only thing I want to say about this disturbing series of scandals is that what makes it even more appalling is that the current pope played a major role in covering up these abuse cases years ago when he was a cardinal. Just sickening...

Jai Sri Ram

Ramakrishna
02 October 2011, 10:59 PM
Namaste,


I never understand the Irish - why are they so much pre-occupied with this absurd faith. The rest of europe has kind of moved on. Yes, christianity remains the main religion, but its impact on day-to-day life, thoughts and culture are close to null.



SM78, yes - the collective samskaras of this country's obsession with Catholicism are embedded deep in the Irish psyche. The people on this island are a naturally religious, if not pious, people. It's just a pity it happened to be Catholicism they followed. It will probably take decades to subside, but I'm happy to report that it is gradually eroding. People have people greatly disillusioned with the Catholic Church. Their deceit, cowardice, and megalomania have finally come to the awareness of many people. I really hope it marks a change in the consciousness of all Catholics in the future.


Indeed, while Catholicism is still pretty ingrained in Ireland, Sunyata is right that the Irish are gradually moving away from it. I would assume most of those people are just abandoning religion altogether and becoming atheist/agnostic, but a growing number of people are also attempting to go back to the religion of their ancestors and embracing Druidry and other forms of paganism/neo-paganism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Druidism
http://druidry.org/

Jai Sri Ram

shantiseeker
03 October 2011, 06:29 AM
How many older adults do I know tell me the story of the nuns in grade school who were nasty to them? The whole crack the ruler on their knuckles deal. Or people who were left handed forced to write with their right hand? Absurdity. But it's not all RC either. Although in many ways, I just consider some of the other Christian denominations just RC Lite. The RC Church is loaded with money. Just the Vatican alone is testament to that. Of course, here in the US, we have these huge megachurches that are their own slick deal too, some with cafes in them and all, multi-million dollar structures. I'm suspicious of all of that and where funding like that comes from. So much of the overall Christian churches are just a big ball of corruption that cause pain to others, like the damnation preaching, which is just EMOTIONAL abuse to its members, and then the judgmental ones taking it to outsiders too. Like a church sign I saw this summer: You think it's hot HERE??? Nice, real nice.

sunyata07
03 October 2011, 01:25 PM
Like a church sign I saw this summer: You think it's hot HERE??? Nice, real nice.


If that isn't your typical Xtian scaremongering, I don't know what is. Can't remember where I saw this, but I recall seeing a public television fundraiser where some minister was asking viewers to call in and donate lots of money so that they could... - wait for it - pray for their souls, and the souls of their kids, grandkids, etc. It was like the selling of indulgences! You could literally buy your way into heaven, and this wasn't from hundreds of years ago. This was just on television a while back. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears. I feel sorry for people who believe that kind of stuff.

Om namah Shivaya

shantiseeker
03 October 2011, 06:17 PM
If that isn't your typical Xtian scaremongering, I don't know what is. Can't remember where I saw this, but I recall seeing a public television fundraiser where some minister was asking viewers to call in and donate lots of money so that they could... - wait for it - pray for their souls, and the souls of their kids, grandkids, etc. It was like the selling of indulgences! You could literally buy your way into heaven, and this wasn't from hundreds of years ago. This was just on television a while back. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears. I feel sorry for people who believe that kind of stuff.

Om namah Shivaya

INDEED! Terrible how they think that's "spreading the gospel" of a "loving God". Yeah, right. What a contradiction. Love and condemnation. When I see such signs, I just roll my eyes and keep going. The only people who respond to such drivel are 1. other fundies who are narrow like-minded saying, "yeah!", or 2. People that just have to laugh at the joke that people like that take themselves seriously. I get miffed at first, and then laugh at it like, have fun living your petty life of fear. signs like that don't affect the common public-it's just ignored and doesn't spawn fear. The fear comes to the "believers", not people like me.

devotee
03 October 2011, 08:56 PM
Namaste Sunyata,



If that isn't your typical Xtian scaremongering, I don't know what is. Can't remember where I saw this, but I recall seeing a public television fundraiser where some minister was asking viewers to call in and donate lots of money so that they could... - wait for it - pray for their souls, and the souls of their kids, grandkids, etc. It was like the selling of indulgences! You could literally buy your way into heaven, and this wasn't from hundreds of years ago. This was just on television a while back. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears. I feel sorry for people who believe that kind of stuff.


Your post reminded me of a Christian family in India whose entire family is engaged in this profitable business. They have earned billions of Indian Rupees with such propaganda. People are made to believe that God will shower His blessings on them if they simply accept any of the family members as the mediator ! People sell their belongings, lands and donate to the family. Each one of that family is a highly blessed soul with direct contact with God.

I don't know what the truth is. But I smell something fishy ...

OM