We are not the doer.....

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

So through this contemplation of who we are and inquiry I am a bit interested in dwelling further into reality. I want to check out some of the 'conclusions' I have made. I'm hoping seasoned practitioners can help me understand better. Especially atanu, Devotee, yajvan, and many others.


Anyways we are not anything we can think, see, hear, taste, touch, feel, and know. This body is not who we are for this can be seen. Also it seems that everything has a life of its own. My body tells me when its tired, wants to remove waste, cough, sneeze, allow blood flow, cause my heart to beat, and etc. etc... So it seems this body is operating through a grace. Some prana animates it, but its not me. So that means when I walk from A (bedroom) to B (living room) I am not the thing moving. The body is just moving on its own. Many things seem predetermined perhaps through karma.

So since I am not the person moving, then that means I am also not the moving thoughts that come and go. This is what we call the mind. But this mind seems to be by itself doing its own thing. It is animated by something, but the mind itself is not me. So thoughts come and go, but there is observance of this. In witnessing this, does that mean that the thinking, feeling, and actions are all happening spontaneously? Then does not mean we can sit back in the passenger seat and watch the whole play of Shiva?


Om Namah Shivaya

[devotee]

Namaste SS,



So through this contemplation of who we are and inquiry I am a bit interested in dwelling further into reality. I want to check out some of the 'conclusions' I have made. I'm hoping seasoned practitioners can help me understand better. Especially atanu, Devotee, yajvan, and many others.


Anyways we are not anything we can think, see, hear, taste, touch, feel, and know. This body is not who we are for this can be seen. Also it seems that everything has a life of its own. My body tells me when its tired, wants to remove waste, cough, sneeze, allow blood flow, cause my heart to beat, and etc. etc... So it seems this body is operating through a grace. Some prana animates it, but its not me. So that means when I walk from A (bedroom) to B (living room) I am not the thing moving. The body is just moving on its own. Many things seem predetermined perhaps through karma.

So since I am not the person moving, then that means I am also not the moving thoughts that come and go. This is what we call the mind. But this mind seems to be by itself doing its own thing. It is animated by something, but the mind itself is not me. So thoughts come and go, but there is observance of this. In witnessing this, does that mean that the thinking, feeling, and actions are all happening spontaneously? Then does not mean we can sit back in the passenger seat and watch the whole play of Shiva?


That is a beautiful thread ! Thanks for bringing this up. :)

To answer you in short, "Yes, our aim should be to just the witness. Being just a witness is Drshta-bhaava (the position of a seer/observer) which has to be cultivated".

The whole thing that makes us up can be visualised as a water-body of consciousness which is vibrating. The Consciousness is just One as there is no division in the water-body but there are various waves which apparently act on their own & maintain their own identity. The pool of consciousness wherein SS is "created" due to specific vibration in the ocean of Infinite Consciousness that is One alone without a second. This "SS" is a thought-wave in the Ocean of Consciousness & it is separate from the body & various organs & other thought-waves. The body and the organs are created due to the disturbance created by the karma & desires of the thought-wave which claims to be "SS" to assist in realisation of the fruits of the Karma & desires. So, therefore, the real creator of the body and the oragns etc, is Maya (nature of the Consciousness/Self) but they are there for "SS" being there as the primary cause. When Self-realisation occurs, there is no work left for Maya & that dissolves back into Self once the great goal is achieved.

However, "SS" which has at present no control on functioning of heart, respiration, kidneys, blood circulation etc. can start controlling all these functions by practising Yoga, therefore, the individual consciousness of various organs within the body are not really so much independent. The "SS" can slowly realise its True identity & "know" that actually, nothing happens without his own desires (at this stage "SS" must identify itself with the Cosmic Self).

In short, there are many "i"s (which act body, organs etc.) springing in the pool of consciousness (which is not at all separate from the Infinite Ocean of Consciousness) that makes us & among them there is an "i" which claims to be the master/owner of all actions which enjoys all pleasures and suffers pains. This "i" has to realise that it is actually the Cosmic "I", the Self. Practising non-attachment to whatever is happening is one of the steps towards Self-realisation.

OM

[iksvakave]

Spiritual Seeker said:
"When Self-realisation occurs, there is no work left for Maya & that dissolves back into Self once the great goal is achieved."

How do I find these enteries? Lesson of the Day ----- for me anyway.

Spritual Seeker also said:
"Then, does it mean we sit back in the passeger seat and watch the whole play of Shiva?"

oh! What is the "whole play of Shiva"?

I only know of "role-play"

Iksvakave

[iksvakave]

When I say lesson of the day -- for me anyway

I was talking about it* being a little pick me upper for me.

Iksvakave

[iksvakave]

Does "whole play" mean: Sub kho natak?

Iksvakave

[brahman]

Namaste,

So through this contemplation of who we are and inquiry I am a bit interested in dwelling further into reality. I want to check out some of the 'conclusions' I have made. I'm hoping seasoned practitioners can help me understand better. Especially atanu, Devotee, yajvan, and many others.


Anyways we are not anything we can think, see, hear, taste, touch, feel, and know. This body is not who we are for this can be seen. Also it seems that everything has a life of its own. My body tells me when its tired, wants to remove waste, cough, sneeze, allow blood flow, cause my heart to beat, and etc. etc... So it seems this body is operating through a grace. Some prana animates it, but its not me. So that means when I walk from A (bedroom) to B (living room) I am not the thing moving. The body is just moving on its own. Many things seem predetermined perhaps through karma.

So since I am not the person moving, then that means I am also not the moving thoughts that come and go. This is what we call the mind. But this mind seems to be by itself doing its own thing. It is animated by something, but the mind itself is not me. So thoughts come and go, but there is observance of this. In witnessing this, does that mean that the thinking, feeling, and actions are all happening spontaneously? Then does not mean we can sit back in the passenger seat and watch the whole play of Shiva?


Om Namah Shivaya





Spiritualseeker wrote:
In witnessing this does that mean that the thinking, feeling, and actions are all happening spontaneously?

Then does not mean we can sit back in the passenger seat and watch the whole play of Shiva?








Dear Spiritualseeker et al.

The realms of mind and matter apparently are opposite in nature. Vedanta answers how these two get in contact with each other resulting in what we experience as sense-perception.

It is one chit/ chidatma, becoming conditioned because of its own Maya, that manifests itself both as mind and matter, both as subject and object, one subtly and the other grossly is known to learners Vedanta.

So the world we are familiar with is seen as having two aspects, the subjective and the objective.

Which of these two- the subjective or the objective –is real?
The Absolute Reality, in brief, is neither external nor internal, but it is the one Chit that finds expression as both.

In what manner does the non dual Chit manifest itself?
Here I include a comparison commonly taught in my sampradaya, that is, to a bee fluttering its wings.

The moment of the wings from one side to the other is so rapid that it remains invisible.
Likewise, the chit too moves from external manifest form to the internal consciousness and the other way round so fast and constantly that no one is able to say at which point of time it is externally manifesting and, which point internally.

Consciousness takes no time to shift its attention from an external object to what happens within; so too the other way. For the reason this imperceptible motion takes place all the time. Even it’s taking place is not noticed in the usual course. Instead we feel two parallel worlds, on objective and the other subjective, exist simultaneously and continuously.

The perpetual flow of events in these two worlds can be compared to numerous pictures flow through the projector constantly that their manyness goes behind the screen and the oneness of the flow of events comes to the fore, creating the phenomenon of a motion picture.

Likewise, the recurring interior pictures that appear because of the fluttering-like function of Chit, creates the impression of the existence of the world of internal images, and of it having unbrokenness. So is the case with impression of the existence of the external objective world as well.

The chit, which is sat in essence, is neither objective nor subjective, neither samanya nor visesha. It, on the other hand, has the potential in it give expression to many such duals. love:)

(For repeated reading and pondering alone)

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,


That is a beautiful thread ! Thanks for bringing this up.

To answer you in short, "Yes, our aim should be to just the witness. Being just a witness is Drshta-bhaava (the position of a seer/observer) which has to be cultivated".

There is such letting go when this observing is taking place. It seems that there is some illusory self or thing that is afraid of giving up control and being simply observer without identifications, but this must be the kleshas and the belief in the thoughts that are thought.


The whole thing that makes us up can be visualised as a water-body of consciousness which is vibrating. The Consciousness is just One as there is no division in the water-body but there are various waves which apparently act on their own & maintain their own identity. The pool of consciousness wherein SS is "created" due to specific vibration in the ocean of Infinite Consciousness that is One alone without a second. This "SS" is a thought-wave in the Ocean of Consciousness & it is separate from the body & various organs & other thought-waves. The body and the organs are created due to the disturbance created by the karma & desires of the thought-wave which claims to be "SS" to assist in realisation of the fruits of the Karma & desires. So, therefore, the real creator of the body and the oragns etc, is Maya (nature of the Consciousness/Self) but they are there for "SS" being there as the primary cause. When Self-realisation occurs, there is no work left for Maya & that dissolves back into Self once the great goal is achieved.

Ah so even this body is consciousness, at the least it is emanating from that and gets its power from that. SS is only a thought wave. This wave is believed and this is where all the sorrows and maya come from. As long as I have desires and Karma as a 'person' birth will be continuous. Its amazing that we simply need to see the deconstruction of this false person that we think we are. This great death is more feared than the negative emotions that inflict torment upon us and take us head long into hellish realms. Yet, our freedom is here now in seeing that we are not this thought I.


However, "SS" which has at present no control on functioning of heart, respiration, kidneys, blood circulation etc. can start controlling all these functions by practising Yoga, therefore, the individual consciousness of various organs within the body are not really so much independent. The "SS" can slowly realise its True identity & "know" that actually, nothing happens without his own desires (at this stage "SS" must identify itself with the Cosmic Self).

wow incredible.




In short, there are many "i"s (which act body, organs etc.) springing in the pool of consciousness (which is not at all separate from the Infinite Ocean of Consciousness) that makes us & among them there is an "i" which claims to be the master/owner of all actions which enjoys all pleasures and suffers pains. This "i" has to realise that it is actually the Cosmic "I", the Self. Practising non-attachment to whatever is happening is one of the steps towards Self-realisation.

OM


Everything then is this. It is quite amazing. Even the negativity it seems to all be part of this. It is God showing us our selves through this evolutionary process. Non-attachment is something that I know personally can be difficult, because really non-attachment is non-action. It is not clinging to whatever occurs. This is difficult, but salvation lies in this.

Thank you devotee

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4A9r9yKkkNs/Sm6zDObiHuI/AAAAAAAADmM/uQeZ9lnt2dQ/s400/Fire+The+Grid+Earth+Meditation.jpg

[Spiritualseeker]

Spiritualseeker wrote:
In witnessing this does that mean that the thinking, feeling, and actions are all happening spontaneously?

Then does not mean we can sit back in the passenger seat and watch the whole play of Shiva?


Dear Spiritualseeker et al.

The realms of mind and matter apparently are opposite in nature. Vedanta answers how these two get in contact with each other resulting in what we experience as sense-perception.

It is one chit/ chidatma, becoming conditioned because of its own Maya, that manifests itself both as mind and matter, both as subject and object, one subtly and the other grossly is known to learners Vedanta.

Very beautiful. There is no inside or outside. No subject or object.


So the world we are familiar with is seen as having two aspects, the subjective and the objective.

Which of these two- the subjective or the objective –is real?
The Absolute Reality, in brief, is neither external nor internal, but it is the one Chit that finds expression as both.

This is what is difficult for the mind, because the mind wants to try to figure it out, but this is beyond mind. Thought cannot help see what is beyond thought. This is a great experiential quality that is needed.


In what manner does the non dual Chit manifest itself?
Here I include a comparison commonly taught in my sampradaya, that is, to a bee fluttering its wings.

The moment of the wings from one side to the other is so rapid that it remains invisible.
Likewise, the chit too moves from external manifest form to the internal consciousness and the other way round so fast and constantly that no one is able to say at which point of time it is externally manifesting and, which point internally.

Mind blowing!


Consciousness takes no time to shift its attention from an external object to what happens within; so too the other way. For the reason this imperceptible motion takes place all the time. Even it’s taking place is not noticed in the usual course. Instead we feel two parallel worlds, on objective and the other subjective, exist simultaneously and continuously.

This is very deep. This is something that needs reflection and meditation upon repeatedly.


The perpetual flow of events in these two worlds can be compared to numerous pictures flow through the projector constantly that their manyness goes behind the screen and the oneness of the flow of events comes to the fore, creating the phenomenon of a motion picture.

This is what i have been trying to understand. It is amazing how all this works. There is a great misunderstanding that we take ourselves to be this I that we think is continuous throughout the flow of events.


Likewise, the recurring interior pictures that appear because of the fluttering-like function of Chit, creates the impression of the existence of the world of internal images, and of it having unbrokenness. So is the case with impression of the existence of the external objective world as well.

The chit, which is sat in essence, is neither objective nor subjective, neither samanya nor visesha. It, on the other hand, has the potential in it give expression to many such duals. love
(For repeated reading and pondering alone)

Thank you very much for this meditation.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-F0j-HqCU54c/Tm-IksxSfPI/AAAAAAAABpU/whwP8_Zf4QE/s1600/Lord-Ganesha-Wallpapers-for-Desktop-4.jpg